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We’ve all heard what it takes to be a good listener: make eye contact, face the speaker, and so on. But is there more to it? Oscar Trimboli says there most definitely is. He has coached and mentored professionals in a variety of leadership roles in numerous industries including the financial sector, technology, professional services, education, and nonprofits. And he wants to make sure that you, too, understand the intricacies of becoming a truly effective listener.
I’m on a quest to create 100 million deep listeners in the world.
He points out that only about 2% of us have been taught how to truly listen. This is a problem, since we spend 55% of our day listening. Part of the issue is that when we’re listening to someone speak, we don’t clear enough space in our own head in order to listen to ourselves before we begin a conversation.
Not Listening Will Cost You
In our podcast, Oscar discloses that he is on a mission to help people move from distracted listening to deep and impactful listening. There is a cost to not listening — whether it’s to your customers, your employees, or to anyone else you’re working with.
He stresses that it’s listening — not just speaking — that is going to make the difference between success and failure when you’re in a business and you’re trying to change people with ideas or raise funds.
Listening Across 5 Dimensions
Oscar refers to effective listening as deep listening. And in order to do listen deeply, we need to listen across five dimensions:
- Listening to yourself,
- Listening to the content,
- Listening for the context,
- Listening for what is unsaid, and
- Listening for meaning.
Asking the right questions when someone is speaking also makes for a deep listener. “Tell me more,” is a great example. This phrase is not to help you better understand what the speaker is trying to say; it’s to help the speaker better express what they mean. Often, when we say, “Tell me more,” the speaker will sigh very deeply and when they do, you know you’re starting to hear what they truly mean rather than just what they’ve actually said. A distracted listener may not even be tuned in enough to a conversation to notice this, but a deep listener will.
Targeting Your Customers’ Customers
A good salesperson will be focused on their customer’s problem. A great sales rep will be focused on their customer’s customer’s problem. It’s not enough to know the organization’s problem that is in front of you; you also have to understand, who are they serving?
Deep listening requires insight. Oscar stresses that if you’re selling B2B, it’s critically important to understand the needs and problems that your customers’ customers have — that is, keeping an eye out for what’s two steps ahead, not just what’s right in front of you. He adds that a great sales rep will help their customer promote the business to their customer and understand who else they’re competing against beyond the traditional competitors.
Listening Advice
When asked for some specific key pointers to help us listen better to others, Oscar stresses the importance of being comfortable with silence.
You’ll be surprised how much heavy lifting silence can do for you in a conversation if you don’t interrupt who you’re speaking to.
During a conversation, we seem to be hell bent of filling every gap with words and become uncomfortable with the shortest of pauses. Oscar points out that in Eastern cultures such as Japan and China, long pauses are commonplace in conversations. As the Western world does more and more business with the East, becoming comfortable with silence during a conversation is more important than ever.
Oscar also shares that we shouldn’t be taking handwritten verbatim notes when having a conversation. Simply put, this type of writing shuts down the part of the brain that actually hears and understands — something no one wants to have happen when trying to listen effectively. Instead, Oscar suggests writing down graphical notes.
The 5 Myths of Listening
Lastly, Oscar Trimboli offers a fantastic resource on his website — a download called The Five Myths of Listening. It outlines the five most common mistakes people make when listening and, most importantly, the five solutions that go along with them. You can find it at oscartrimboli.com/listeningmyths.
We also recommend:
- How Creating the Right Company Culture Motivates Employees (5 Proven Tips)
- 5 Reasons Why Online Traffic Should Be a Priority for Your Coaching Business
- The Biggest Clue on Your Future Success as a Social Entrepreneur (It Isn’t What You Think!)
Transcription of Interview (Transcribed by OtterAI; there may be errors.)
Adam Force 0:12
Hey, what’s going on everybody? Welcome back to the change creator podcast show. This is your host, Adam Force. And if you missed last week’s episode, it’s with the one and only Blake Mycoskie, the founder of TOMS Shoes, and the founder of that one for one business model that everybody loves so much. So we learned a lot from Blake and his experience, we talked about what he has going on in his world now, as he kind of takes his steps towards a different path.
So it’s a pretty exciting conversation. So if you missed that interview, there’s a lot to learn from Blake and his experience with TOMS and just kind of like the insights he has for where he’s going next. So check that out, if you missed it. This week, we are speaking to somebody who is a master at the art of deep listening. You know, I have literally read books from people like Richard Branson, and the entire book was about listening. You know, like, this is such a simple thing, it seems simple on the surface. But there’s so much power behind the art of listening. And it’s a really important skill, when you want to be a leader and an entrepreneur who is you know, going to successfully grow their business and create partnerships with people, and all of those types of things.
So we’re going to be talking to Oscar Trimboli, and he has quite a background, he’s done the thing, you know, working as a marketing director at Vodafone, Microsoft, and all those types of things. And he has always been really passionate about the importance of listening to his customers. And today, he’s on a mission to create 100 million deep listeners in the world. And so during this interview, we’re going to talk about what does that actually mean? And how does that work and examples of deep listening and how you can start practicing. And so all those goodies are going to come out of it, I think you’re going to get a lot of value out of this discussion with Oscar.
So stay tuned in just a minute, we’re going to get that started. Issue 28 of change career magazine was with Blake Mycoskie on the cover. And that was a really amazing addition, we’ve had incredible feedback on it. So hopefully you had a chance to peel through those pages. Another update about the magazine is our team is going to be changing the model and distribution of the magazine. So there will be price changes coming up to everybody’s benefit. And also the distribution frequency is going to change as well. So as those details get flushed out, we’re going to be making announcements across our Facebook network, as well as through our email channels. And then of course, I’ll make a shout out here just to give those details, but I wanted to give a heads up, those things are coming down the pipeline, they’re all good changes.
And we’re going to be putting emphasis and in other areas that you guys have been telling us that are really important to you. And then access to the magazine, all of our editions will still be there. And some new editions will be coming out. But again, just a couple tweaks on frequency and pricing models and stuff like that. So we’re just working out the finer details. But there’s a quick heads up just to so you guys know what’s coming down the pipeline. And I think that’s it guys, if you’re not following us on Facebook, that’s our spot.
So follow us over there, that’s where you can get a lot of the the updates, especially in the group. So if you go to our page, you’ll see a link there to the group. And that is about your marketing. So storytelling from marketing to grow your impact business, check us out on the Facebook group. And we have a great little community there — people who are entrepreneurs in the impact space and we share ideas, we network, and there’s a lot of value that comes out of that. So check it out, when you get a chance. It’s a great way to connect with our team and others in the space. So alright, without further ado, let’s dive into this conversation with Oscar.
Announcer 3:54
Okay, show me the heat.
Adam Force 3:58
Hey, Oscar, welcome. Welcome to the Change Creator podcast show how you doing today?
Oscar Trimboli 4:04
Look, I’ve enjoyed a really full day. You’re catching me in the evening in Australia, and you’re just kicking off in the morning where you are.
Adam Force 4:12
Yes, absolutely. That’s right. It’s early and early for me late for you. And you know, as I love that’s what one thing I love about doing this show is talking to people all around the world. So always interesting.
Oscar Trimboli 4:27
Yeah, the world completely connected these days. I was doing a podcast of Boston about four months ago. And somebody one floor above me in the same building was listening to that podcast and sent me an email and said, Where are you in Sydney? And I explained to him what street I was in. And he said, I’m in that street, what floor are you on? I said I’m on five. He said, I’m on six. And that’s how connected the world is today.
Adam Force 4:51
Yeah, exactly, exactly. Awesome. So let’s, I just want to get grounded. And I like to make sure everybody knows kind of like what’s going on in your world these days, like what’s the latest and greatest.
Oscar Trimboli 5:07
I’m on a quest to create 100 million deep listeners in the world. And that’s no insignificant undertaking. And somebody challenged me once and said, If your goal can be achieved in your lifetime, you’re not being ambitious enough. So the initial goal was 10 million, and they challenged me to put an extra zero on it. So I’m on this quest to help people move from distracted listening to deep and impactful listening. So that means I’m spending my life doing interviews like this, but also helping people with speaking about the topic training organizations to explain the cost of not listening, whether it’s to their customers, or their employees, or the regulators or everybody else that they’re working with as well.
Adam Force 5:53
Yeah, so let’s dig into that just a little bit. So you wrote a book about deep listening and Impact Beyond Words, which I do like that title. And I think listening is such a important art, especially in the entrepreneur space, and just in general as well. Right. So how are you — I guess, let’s talk a little bit about how you are impacting people. So you’re doing these shows, you’re talking at events, and I’d like to dig into what deep listening is to you, and how this helps people just to tee that up?
Oscar Trimboli 6:28
Yeah, I think, for me, a couple of times, people would always reference me as I you know, go and talk to Oscar, he’s a really good listener. And then I remember when I was working at Microsoft, the boss president said to me, after a really highly tense meeting with some global people and some original people, some people from the Australian business. Wow, Oscar, did you realize you changed that meeting at about 30 minute mark, just by how you started to listen to what people weren’t saying? And she said to me Oscar, if you could code that you could change the world.
Now when Tracy said that she actually meant coded into software, and which I will do eventually. And that’s how we’re going to get to 100 million. But I didn’t think much of it at the time. And then three weeks later, another lady said to me, wow, the way you listen, is it impressive, but the way you see who people really are, wow, that’s powerful, that’s transformational for them. And I think for most of us, Adam, we’ve never been taught how to listen. In fact, only 2% of us have been taught how to listen, yet we spend 55% of our day listening. If you go back to school, you can probably remember your math teacher, English teacher, geography teacher. But none of us can remember our listening teachers. And the teachers we remember the most, whether that’s our math teacher, English teacher, generally people say to me, they were the teacher who really listened to me, that really got who I was.
And they were able to get the best out of me, because they were listen well beyond the words. And a lot of us have been taught to focus on the speaker when we’re listening. And that’s handy, the most important person you need to listen to, is you. And most of us don’t clear any space in our own head, to listen to ourselves, before we get to the conversation.
Our head is like a messy kitchen bench top, which has got pots and pans all over it and no room for the listening to land into. So it’s really critical that everybody understands that if you can remove the distractions, the technology, the cell phones, the laptops, iPads, away from the conversation, your ability to listen will exponentially grow. And if you’re in a business where you’re trying to change people with ideas, with trying to raise capital, it’s listening — not just speaking — that’s going to be the difference between your success and getting there as quick as you’d like to.
Adam Force 9:00
Yeah, so let’s unpack that just a little bit. You talk about when you talk about listening, I think a knee jerk reaction A lot of people have and you know, Richard Branson talks about how important is to listen, and you hear these things from people. But when you hear it, you think, okay, so you know, I’ll sit and I’ll shut my mouth. And it seems like such a simple thing. Like, just don’t talk and just listen.
But it’s but it you know, when you can write a whole book about it, and you’re in so many people talk about how important it is, there has to be a lot more depth to this practice. And so I want to see if we can unpack that just a little bit more. So maybe you can share some of the insights from the book or just from your experience about what you know, take it a little bit further, like, can we dig into it?
Oscar Trimboli 9:49
Yeah, look, most of us listen in black and white, because we haven’t been taught any different. And we’re really two dimensional in the way we listen, we listen to words, and we look at body language, and we use visual prompt sto get us moving forward. And that’s, that’s useful. But a deep listener can listen across five dimensions. And those five dimensions are listening to yourself, listening to the content, listening for the context, listening for what is unsaid, sounds like a bit of a ninja move. How do you listened to what’s unsaid, but we’ll spend a bit of time there and ultimately, listening for meaning. About two years ago, I interviewed an amazing nonprofit leader Kathy LeMay out of Boston, not too far from you.
In the US, well, relative to me, it’s not far away. It’s probably a five hour plane flight from Miami. And Kathy at that stage had raised $175 million. And when I got to interview her, the reason I did is because she said the reason she was so successful is she listened to what donors meant by their donation, not what them money was. You know, when you’ve raised that much money, she was raising money for immigration services, she was raising money for domestic violence, she was raising money for people from war torn parts of the world and refugee programs. She has to listen so much deeper than others.
And the minute she stopped trying to understand what their objections might be, and really listening to what they wanted to say, not the first thing that came out of their mouth, but ultimately what they meant, Kathy said, that was the biggest breakthrough. And the way she did it was pausing. It was using silence and not interrupting. So when we talk about listening for unsaid, Adam, here’s a really simple rule for all of us to remember. I speak at 125 words a minute, you can listen at 400 words a minute, and I can think at 900 words a minute.
Think about this very simple neuroscience in my brain, I have 900 words in my head. And the only way I can get that message out to the world is at 125 to 250 words a minute. That means that the first thing that comes out of my mouth is a one in nine chance that what I’m saying is actually what I mean.
Adam Force 12:21
Okay.
Oscar Trimboli 12:22
So there’s an 11% chance that what I say the first time is actually what I’m thinking. Now, I don’t know about you but if I had an 11% chance of success from a surgery, I’d probably ask for a second opinion. If I had an 11% chance of winning a court case, I’d probably ask for a second opinion from another lawyer. And yet, very few of us ask the person who’s speaking for what else is stuck in their head. The head is like a washing machine in wash cycle. It’s sadly it’s messy. It’s rotating, and it’s moving around. And spin cycle is when you speak.
Now, again, I don’t know how much washing you do, Adam, but even washing machines have more than one rinse cycle. So what we want to do is listen to these magical code words, you understand what somebody means when they say words like: “Well, actually,” or, “you know, what’s really important?” “You know what I should have said that I haven’t said so far?”
Adam Force 13:25
Yeah.
Oscar Trimboli 13:26
“Thinking about it, the most critical thing on this topic is… .” Now you’ve just unpicked what’s unsaid when you hear those code words. And here is a phrase you can learn if you take away one thing that’s about maths, it’s the 1 25 400 rule. And if you take away the art of listening at this question, “Tell me more.”
Adam Force 13:49
Yeah.
Oscar Trimboli 13:50
And that question, “tell me more” is not for you. It’s not to help you understand more, it’s helping them to express what they mean. And when you say to more, that will pause, sometimes about five very deeply. And when they do you know, you’re starting to hear what they really mean, rather than what they’ve actually said. So a distracted listener won’t even be present enough in the conversation to notice this. And a deep listener will.
Adam Force 14:19
Yeah, no, that’s all really interesting. And it makes me think you know, about a couple things. So you know, as entrepreneurs, we have conversations with people in our audience to understand you know, what they have going on. But we also have conversations with potential, you know, b2b clients and understand what they have going on. So I’d like to maybe just think about those situations a little bit. And, you know, I hear the things that you’re saying right now, and I’m like looking back in my brain on these conversations.
And you start to think, geez, you know, you’re in these client meetings, and you’re, you have this genuine, you know, interest in helping them do better with what they’re doing. And some of the times, like what happens to me, especially with whether it’s client meetings, or it’s like, with your potential customers, you know, there’s the irrational thoughts and the rational thoughts, what they want, what they actually need, and deciphering, you know, where to put your attention. So when you’re listening, it’s like, is this really what they need? Like? So do you have any insight on how to start listening in a sense to identify the true needs versus just what they think that they want, but it’s not really the need, you know, what I’m trying to say?
Oscar Trimboli 15:36
I think I do. So if I don’t, you’ll know me. As someone who spent 30 years selling b2b in enterprise based accounting, CRM, and call center and human resources and payroll and finance systems, I have spent a bit of time with b2b buyers, but in the last decade of my life I have spent a lot of time coaching CEOs, CFOs, CEOs, Chief Operating Officers, Head of Risk, Head of Human Resources. So I’ve been fortunate enough to get to both sides of the equation. And Adam here’s one thing that I think distinguishes good from great when it comes to selling in a beta Bay context.
A good salesperson will be focused on their customer’s problem. A great sales rep will be focused on their customer’s customer’s problem. It’s not enough to know what’s the organization’s problem that is in front of you, you also have to understand, who are they serving? And what problems can you help them solve? Because it’s one thing to sell them something that helps them; It’s quite world class to sell them something that will help their customers. The other thing that distinguishes good from great when it comes to the database, sellers is a good database seller will beat the competition. And a great database seller will help the person in front of them sell a business case inside the organization.
Couple of years ago, I was working with a customer in New Zealand, and I was selling contact center software. And they were absolutely certain they’d beaten their competition — their very traditional technology competition. But at the last minute, I will call by procurement and told that this was on hold. And what had happened was Kimberly Clark, who are very famous for making diapers, but also make toilet paper had made an offer to the CFO. If the CFO bought a whole year’s worth of toilet paper, that would give them 50% off.
And what they lost to wasn’t their traditional technology competition, they lost to toilet paper because they didn’t understand who was involved in the buying process. They only understood how to beat the competition. So there’s two tips when you’re selling b2b: Tip number one, a good seller will sell to the customer and the customer’s problem, a great rep will sell to the customer’s customer’s problem. And a great rep will also sell the business case and help the person who’s in front of them sell the business case internally and understand who else they’re competing against beyond the traditional competitors.
Adam Force 18:29
Yeah, I think that’s important. So you know, anybody listening I as as Oscar as you’re talking, I think it makes a lot of sense. Because as you’re in these meetings, whether you’re a coach and you’re trying to onboard people to support them, or you’re, you know, support an agency supporting other clients, like, you have to go in there with the intention of listening for those things. Right. So and asking the right questions too I mean, do you agree like you have to go in. And if you ask the right questions, that’s how you get to the point where you can listen and get the information you need.
Oscar Trimboli 19:00
In a lot of cases, we ask the questions too late as well. Well, a lot of time, if you think about the standard unit of the meeting is either one hour or half an hour. And if we’ll just do the half an hour, the one hour meeting because the math is easier for me. You should be asking this question at the 45 minute mark, in any conversation, who else is involved in the procurement process? And most importantly, this is this is the question you want to ask. So they might say, Oh, it’s Adam. It’s Jenny and Simon. And you simply have to ask them, so if they were in this room right now, how would you explain what we’ve just discussed to them?
And when you do, all they’re doing is rehearsing in front of you how they’re gonna sell this business case. And when they do, you can make a judgment call to go, Wow, these people are rock stars, they’ve got it all covered, or gee, they’re really strong at explaining features and functions, but they don’t realize the financial implications of what they do. So if Simon was the finance guy, you just simply have to ask, What other questions would Simon have from a finance perspective that we haven’t covered today? And typically they go, Oh, I think we’ve covered them all.
And you can simply ask, I look, when I work with other finance leaders and other organizations, they typically want to understand the payback period on this. How would you explain that to Simon? And typically they’ll stumble, and you know, okay, you need to help them out there. So that’s a lot around level three listening, which is listening through the context and understanding how things get done in an organization. Rather than just giving them the content, it’s not enough to give them an executive summary in a pitch deck, you need to be rock solid, that whatever questions they’re going to get, you’ve got covered off. That’s why I have to ask it two thirds of the way to three quarters of the way into the meeting, because you’re going to need the next 15 minutes to step them through the kinds of questions other people going to ask them.
Adam Force 21:14
Yeah, that makes sense. And so your recommendation, you know, you so it’s all kind of like ties together. So if you know what to look for, you can ask the right questions, and then you gotta listen for the information and kind of see got a guide these conversations a little bit, right.
Oscar Trimboli 21:31
Yes, and no, I think in a lot of cases, the people you’re dealing with know how things work in their organization. I think if you come across as too guided that it feels manipulative. I think being just being open to working with them and going, How do things get done around here, when a transaction of this size happened last time, how did that work? They’ll tell you the answer. You don’t have to necessarily guide them.
And then all you have to do is pull a couple of different perspectives. So what does that mean for Finance? What does it mean for operations? What does it mean for human resources? And you can use those questions no matter what the organization and the context is. And all of a sudden they’ll go, Yeah, well, Alice in operations is always going on about quality. So tell me what your quality story is, and off you go. And you tell them the quality story. I think in a lot of cases, if they feel it’s their story, and not yours, they’ll go and advocate for it much stronger than they ever would if it was only your story alone.
Adam Force 22:34
Yeah, yeah. Interesting. And is this stuff now — I have not read the book yet that you have. And I’m curious. Can we just talk a little bit about like, what you go through in the book, Deep Listening? Do you touch on these types of topics? Like, where’s the focus? And who is this really written for?
Oscar Trimboli 22:57
Yeah, so the book is small enough to sit in your wife’s coat pocket or, or in your bag, if you carry them around. It’s designed to be read in 90 minutes. The book was designed not to be a dust collecting trophy on your shelf that you never use. And because it’s so accessible, a lot of people go back to it over and over again. The book is designed to do a couple of really simple things: Unpick the five levels of listening, it helps you understand how to use silence.
In the West, and Western economies, silence isn’t used as much as it is in the East in high context cultures like Japan, Korea, China. So again, in a more global world, you’re going to interact with more of these people so understand and become comfortable with pause and silence. And then finally, help you identify which listening villain you are. There’s four villains of listening. There’s the lost listener, the dramatic listener, there’s the interrupting listener. And finally, what have I covered up dramatic, interrupting…
Adam Force 24:06
Interrupting.
Oscar Trimboli 24:08
And the fourth one should be really obvious as he looks at his fingers. So lost, dramatic, interrupting, and shrewd, of course. Sorry about that. The shrewd listener is disproportionately represented in the sales profession. So what a shrewd listener does, Adam, is they go, you think that’s your problem. But I’ve already solved that. And you haven’t thought about the three problems I’m already solving for you, I wish you’d hurry up. And while you’re doing that, you’re not really paying attention to what they’re saying.
The interrupting listener is the most over listening type because the interrupting listener just jumps in every time you draw breath and think that’s a commercial break to jump in. The lost listener doesn’t actually know why they’re in a meeting or they’re distracted when they’re in the meeting. And the dramatic listener loves listening to your story because they’ve got a bigger story. If you had a bad boss, I had a worse boss. If you had a tough merger, their merger was tougher than your they’ll love your stories, because it just builds a theatrical stage for them to continue on, on the journey as well. So helping right now Adam, which one of those 4 do you think you are the most or…
Adam Force 25:22
I think I have I try my best to have silence but I think I become interruptive.
Oscar Trimboli 25:30
Yeah. And look in 32% of people in our research database identify immediately with the interrupting listener. But listening is situational and relational. You’ll listen differently to a customer that you’ll listen to an advisor. You’ll listen differently to your parents than you will to a doctor. So we’re actually all of those listening villains, it just depends on the situation that we find ourselves in.
And if there’s one tip, I would give any men listening to this podcast right now, stop trying to fix women. Yeah, they’re not broken. And if you just listen to them, it will completely transform your relationship. I’ve got a funny story. I was coaching a guy called Mick and Mick was working with me for three months. And he said to me, we need to talk. It was a Monday and he said, this is what happened last Friday night. My wife said to me, we need to talk, Mick. And when your wife says that that’s not a good sign 12 years into a marriage. The kids had gone to bed, she sat me down across the dinner table and said, We need to talk.
And he took a deep breath in and she said, You can be completely honest with me now. You’re having an affair, aren’t you? And he took a deep breath in and he says, Wow, she says for the last three months, you have never, ever paid me so much attention in the last three months as you have in the last 12 years of our relationship. So tell me, who are you having the affair with? And she said, Look, and Mick said, I Ggtta be honest. It’s a bloke. It’s a guy. And the guy’s name is Oscar. And he’s been teaching me how to listen for the last three months. And she went, Oh my God, this makes complete sense.
And the funny thing from this whole story is Mick said, her closing comment is, in the last three months, you have never appeared to be more sexy than you have when you listen to me. So Mick’s reflection was he realized for the last 12 years of his relationship, all he was trying to do was fix his wife. And all she wanted was for him to listen to her. For all the work I’ve done and all the researchers in a workplace. But sometimes people get a bit crazy and go and use it at home as well. So
Adam Force 27:53
It’s a powerful tool for just your life in general, I guess. Right?
Oscar Trimboli 27:58
Yeah, whether it’s our home relationships, whether it’s community relationships, whether it’s work relationships, I think we’ve spent a lot of time in the 20th century learning how to speak, how to speak with influence, how to speak with impact. But I think the productivity hack of the 21st century and where you’re spending half your day, is listening.
Adam Force 28:21
Yeah, makes sense. So let’s wrap up with just one last question for the entrepreneurs on this line. Because I think this is such a powerful tool, and I want to give you a chance to kind of give your final words of wisdom to them. And if you were going to give a piece of advice for the early stage entrepreneur who’s you know, trying to get the next client, trying to get the next sale? What would you tell them about the art of listening as they try to grow their business?
Oscar Trimboli 29:00
Be comfortable with the pause, be comfortable with silence, you’ll be surprised how much heavy lifting silence can do for you in a conversation if you don’t interrupt who you’re speaking to. The number one tip I would say is if you’re in front of somebody, and you’re trying to do business with them, build a relationship, create a transaction. Keep this in mind, try and avoid taking verbatim notes. Meaning if you’re hand writing notes, don’t write up word for word or don’t write sentences or don’t write phrases. Try and write graphical notes. The reason you don’t want to take handwritten verbatim notes, or take handwritten notes is that you shut down the part of the brain that actually hears when you’re writing these verbatim notes.
But if you take graphical notes, the part of the brain that allows you to take graphical notes doesn’t shut down the part of the brain that actually hears and when you take graphical notes, you’ll take fewer notes, but you will force yourself to listen at level five and listen for meaning. Your recall from that conversation will be higher, and your eye contact with the person you’re talking to will be much stronger.
The most significant signal you can send to somebody that they believe you’re listening to them is when your eye contact is the highest. So if there’s one thing I would say is get rid of the electronic devices, go analog and just take simple graphical notes about concepts in the meeting, draw the linkages between them, but don’t take verbatim notes. You’ll be much more present in that meeting. And you will transform the person in that room because you’re paying them the biggest compliment in the world. You’re giving them your full attention.
Adam Force 30:51
Yeah. Excellent. Thank you so much Oscar. This is enlightening and very interesting. And I think it’s a very important part of just you know, not just business but like you said life, right? So I think the better we can understand these practices, the better we’ll be all around. So we appreciate you sharing your insights and the work that you’re doing.
Oscar Trimboli 31:14
Well, thanks for listening.
Adam Force 31:16
Absolutely. All right, Oscar. Let’s just give a shout out. How do people learn more about what you have going on? Where can they find you and information and stuff like that?
Oscar Trimboli 31:26
Look, we’ve got a really simple download for everybody called the five myths of listening, which is a downloadable. It’ll tell you the five most common mistakes people make when it comes to listening and the five solutions that go along with it. So if you go to oscartrimboli.com/listeningmyths, you’ll be able to download it there. And that will open up a pathway to the book, the playing cards, the jigsaw puzzle, the podcast series, and soon the comma animated comic strip about how to listen better in the workplace.
Adam Force 32:00
Excellent, and we will include that link for anybody in the show notes when the interview is active on the website. Again, thank you so much Oscar and we will be in touch.
Oscar Trimboli 32:12
Thanks for listening.
Announcer 32:13
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
