Kenn Costales: Growing Leads and Revenue Faster for E-commerce

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How is the market-place shifting today due to the pandemic and what can you do to continue growing leads and revenue for your e-comm biz? The founder of Monolith Growth, Kenn Costales, who was on the Forbes 30 under 30 list, has his eye on the market and shares a ton of key insights to help you navigate these uncharted waters.

Kenn Costales is the Founder and Lead Consultant of Monolith Growth Consulting, a paid search and social marketing agency that helps Shopify stores & Lead Generation businesses around the world grow their revenue & ROI. Kenn is a 2019 honoree listed in Forbes 30 under 30 Asia, for Marketing & Advertising.

What sets Kenn’s agency apart is that they build fully paid ad funnels for their clients. They specialize in customizing the landing pages and emails to maximize conversions. They build custom dashboards, where clients get to see all sorts of data like customer lifetime value, frequency of purchase, and basket analysis, to maximize retention.

Before starting his own marketing agency, Kenn worked as a Brand Operations Manager for Procter & Gamble, and has managed multi-million dollar businesses in Asia like Olay and Head & Shoulders.

Learn more about Kenn and his work at >

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Transcription of Interview

(Transcribed by, there may be errors)

Adam G. Force 00:11

Hey, what’s going on? Welcome back to the Change Creator podcast show. This is your host Adam forests hope everybody is doing well and staying safe. I hope all of you entrepreneurs are thinking like entrepreneurs being problem solvers during this time, extend your empathy to your customers, what are the new problems they have? And how can you help solve them? All right, we have some new Dynamics here to face these days. If you missed it last week, we had an episode where Amy and I were talking about how to effectively set up some systems and things you should be thinking about, all related to this situation where you are in with COVID-19 so if you missed that, you can go back and check it out. I think there’s a lot of good nuggets in there for you and we’re gonna have more talks from Amy and I coming as well. So guys, today we’re talking with Ken castells. So he is the founder of monoliths growth, all right. And they’re focused on helping e commerce and SAS businesses really kind of scale up their revenues, get more ROI and leads and things like that. So we have a very good conversation coming here, because we’re going to talk about the, what he’s seeing in the market. He was, he was on the Forbes 30, under 30. And he’s done a lot of great work over the past, you know, since he started this company, and so he’s seeing a lot in the market, working with clients and how things are shifting based on COVID, and all this kind of stuff. So there’s gonna be a lot of great insights for you to consider here, when it comes to running your business online and how things are changing. So hang tight, and we’re going to talk about those things with Ken. If you guys have not yet, you know, this is the time if you’re not already digital, and you’re losing money with your business, and you want to get digital. We want to hear from you. Right so we have so much insights to share about creating systems online, like using the power of your story. To really get out to the world and create those digital revenue streams the right way. And that is through our program, the captivate method. So this is the time guys, like there’s no time like the president, right? So you want to get out there, you want to start thinking about how you can serve your audiences, and kind of compensate for any losses in revenue, with brick and mortar or on the ground doing, let’s say, trade shows, and now you’re losing, you know, business as an e commerce company. You know, we want to help you really get your marketing strategy, right. So storytelling is your marketing and marketing is your business. Right? So we’ve, we’ve got to empower those things and set it up in a way that applies to the business and really can systematically get leads and sales. And that’s what we want to help you with. So this could be opening up a whole new world of revenue for you. And we just need to consider what are the steps we got to take and, and and how do we do it? So that’s where our community comes in. We have tons of great coaches. We have a great community of people to get into Baldwin who are all here to make the world a better place. So it’s a great tribe to be part of. You can very simply go to our website Change Creator calm, you just go right on the top right of the menu and you say join captivate, get on the waitlist, we’ll start sending you some emails to update you. And then you’re going to get an invite to join the program to actually watch our masterclass because we want you to have a chance to learn what this is all about and how it can help you so you can decide if this is a good fit and you want to be part of our community. So guys, definitely swing by Change Creator calm, we have a lot of fresh content on there and get on the waitlist for the captivate method. This is such a great opportunity for you right now. Alright guys, so without further ado, we’re gonna jump into this conversation with Ken we’re going to talk about the climate of marketing and what’s going on and I hope you get a lot out of it. Don’t forget to leave us a review on iTunes. This is always a big help. And that’s it guys. Let’s dive into this conversation with Cal gay. Show me the heat Hey Ken, welcome to the Change Creator podcast show how you doing today, man?

Kenn Costales 04:04

Doing great. Thank you. How about you?

Adam G. Force 04:07

I’m doing great as well, navigating these unique times as during the time of this call here that we’re recording. So yeah, I mean, let’s like, let’s dive into this thing. You know, one of the things that caught my eye is that you were in the Forbes 30, under 30. Is that right?

Kenn Costales 04:24

Yep. Yep, that’s correct. I was in the list last year. 2019. Okay.

Adam G. Force 04:28

And that’s for your marketing and advertising work that you’ve been doing? Yeah.

Kenn Costales 04:32

Yes, that’s correct. I threw my marketing agency.

Adam G. Force 04:34

Cool, man. Cool. Let’s let’s dive into how you got there real quick. So just want to just give people a little bit of background about what you’re working on. What’s what you’re all about?

Kenn Costales 04:44

Sure, no problem at all. So just a quick background. So I run a what I would call as a ROI focused digital marketing agency. So what we do really is that we help specifically ecommerce and lead generation businesses. Getting Revenue and get more leads online. So it can be done through Facebook ads, Google ads, landing page optimization or conversion rate optimization. But really what we do is that we try to find the right marketing model that fits for your business. So for each and every client that comes into mondelez, we normally develop a custom plan for them. And we use that custom plan to drive results, specifically ROI for them. So that’s the main thing that we’re doing. And luckily enough, I got into Forbes, for my work come in that company.

Adam G. Force 05:32

Yeah. So how does that how does that play out? How do you get noticed? Is there any tricks you can share about getting on that Forbes? 30 under 30 list?

Kenn Costales 05:40

Yeah. So I think I did a couple of things I think about in about 2018. So what it did was that I actually not really spied but I took a look at the profiles of previous agency owners. So I took a look at businesses that have a similar business profile as mine and try to identify What was in their profile? So for example, I was looking at these agency owners in the US and in the Europe. And what they noticed was that, first they talked about their client lists, specifically their biggest clients. So normally it should be a brand name client. I think that’s one factor. And the other factor is that that there should be what’s called a signature campaign. Meaning Was there one particular client where you drove tremendous results on, right and given that what we did was because normally we focus on SME companies. So for the very first time, we actually reached out to a large enterprise client, and it was pretty much a near breakeven type of deal. But the reason why I took it on anyway was with the intent of number one doing extremely well for them, and then use the case study as part of the pitch for Forbes 30 under 30. Because because that’s what’s point 1.2 is in Forbes 30, under 30. You can actually self nominate so you don’t have To wait for someone to nominate for you, you don’t need any special connection whatsoever you can nominate yourself. So based on those two things, I was able to get in lucky. And I think the formula worked because I was able to get in last year.

Adam G. Force 07:13

Nice job, dude. That’s awesome. Yeah, yeah, pretty exciting. And, you know, I’m looking at your website and stuff. And so tell me like, I’m curious just how you see marketing evolving. I mean, we have on the line listening is, you know, we have early stage entrepreneurs and beyond. And, you know, I think that the climate of marketing and technology is obviously always changing pretty rapidly. Obviously, we have the COVID-19 impact. And I’m just curious one, just how you see things changing and maybe any, anything you are noticing with clients and how you’re helping them pivot based on some of the changes with COVID on top of everything else.

Kenn Costales 07:52

Sure. So I think I’ll kind of split it into two categories. One is the category of business assists that are online to begin with. So specifically ecommerce stores, SAS businesses, etc. And then there’s category two, which is the offline businesses. So first for the online businesses, what they’ve noticed is that there’s definitely a trend towards cheaper goods and more essential goods. So what we’ve noticed is that, at least for the food slash clothing related clients, sales are up tremendously. So we have one client in particular, they sell cakes. And in terms of the ROI that we are producing for them, well, I’ll start with a previous ROI. So the previous ROI prior to COVID-19, was about a five to one ROI, meaning for every dollar that was spent, they’re getting $5 back. Now during COVID-19, it is crazy. So we’re now getting 13 to one ROI, so that’s more than double in terms of revenue. So I think that’s one big shift that we’re seeing and we’re seeing similar patterns, not at the same level across And other essential goods. So I think that’s one big shift that I’m seeing in terms of digital. The other shift that I’m seeing, also for the online clients is a general trend towards cheaper goods, but more goods in one basket. So for example, we have this client, they are in the hiking slash outdoor space. So they sell like 200 to $300 bags, hiking bags, but they also have cheaper variants. So something in the range of $50 to $70. Now what we’re seeing is that average order value, which is basically the value of a basket, it goes lower, but the quantity of goods is higher, meaning they’re buying more of these $15 and $70 goods as compared to the larger SK use. And at the same time in terms of the revenue, it’s still flat. So maybe a slight increase, but generally there’s no huge impact when it comes to e commerce, especially if you’re in the you know, essential goods type of space. But overall, what I’m saying Seeing a stat, there’s a trend towards finding better value for every dollar that you spend. And what that specifically means is that more people are buying the cheaper stuff, but with using a bigger basket. So I think that’s for category one, which is for businesses that are ready and digital, for the offline people. What I’m noticing there is that they’re trying to disrupt themselves. So they’re trying to make their own digital platforms. So I think one interesting thing is that we have one client, what they are is basically a space. So imagine a space where they rent out small spots for small food business owners, basically a bazaar. Okay, so there’s a bazaar and they rent out spaces for small food business owners. Now, because of this thing that’s going on, it’s quite upright, momentarily. Now, what they did is that they tried to develop what’s called the cloud kitchen concept. And what that means is that they try to pull all of the food providers or the stall owners in their area And what they’re doing is that they hired their own logistics team. Well, it’s not really a proper logistics team. It’s basically like a dude as part of the team was now was now delivering orders for the company. So it’s a repurposed hire. And what’s happening is that they’re offering certain dishes at certain locations. So for example, you know, just using a random city, So say, for example, in Dallas, in a specific district in Dallas, they can sell specific dishes, and then in another district, they can sell a different set of dishes depending on who lives in that district. Right. So yeah, that’s what I’m doing right now. And the way that they are accepting orders right now is through Facebook Messenger. So there’s no like proper ecommerce type of website as of yet. It’s something that is being built along the way. And even then, are there special e commerce site, they’re just using a basic theme and Shopify, and they’re using or at least I’m seeing other businesses use that to accept orders. So I’m seeing People are going from a bakery to a website that just sells groceries. And beyond the restaurant or the food space, I’m also seeing people like fitness, or not fitness but personal trainers who used to work at a gym. I’m seeing people who used to work in dance studios. They’re not transitioning to digital to digital, but they’re doing in two ways. One is through like personal training. So in my own Facebook, I’m actually seeing people posting, like, like literal zoom screenshots of themselves working out where the personal trainer right at the top right area or the top left there. That was very interesting. So I’m seeing that Shen for personal training for dance studios or for dance lessons. And I’m also seeing some people trying to sell some courses here and there, but the more I would say one to one models working out better so people are hustling man. So something is happening for them, but the impact is so crazy. But I’m very, very glad to see some of these things are going on at least in the offline space, because these guys are the most affected over this situation.

Adam G. Force 13:08

Yeah, exactly. And it’s interesting because there’s a lot of support out there to, to go digital. I see other groups like taking, like, for example, one of our friends in our network runs, like, he helps people with Instagram selling, right? And he’s like, Hey, I know that, you know, you’re used to go into what do you call it, like sell your art at like, you know, different, like trade shows, and like all that, like on on boots on the ground kind of work. And he’s speaking directly to these audiences who now need other ways to sell their products. And so using his product as that solution, so sometimes you can like make a pivot but other times it’s really just Are you shaping your, your marketing narrative to speak to those people and attract them? Right.

Kenn Costales 13:56

Right, definitely. And I think the best way to frame that situation is that like before, because for me entrepreneurship is all about solving problems. So prior to COVID, there were 100 problems, and maybe 99 of them are solved. Now with COVID-19. And now with this new normal, the number of unsolved problems has increased. So maybe from 100 problem is not 150 problems, but instead of one on soft problems now 51 on solve problems, so there are new opportunities for people to tap into, because there’s a lot of people who are not used to the whole remote work engagement. They’re not used to remote software. They are bored at home. So cakes and many other joyful things are trending higher. So there’s definitely new problems that can be solved anything. There’s one interesting as well because another big business that or another industry router that’s impacted is the hotel industry. And from what I know in Philippines, there is this one hotel that converted the space into a commercial space. Because there are some businesses that can still operate. So they’re trying to accept some like commissaries to use or accepting some people to cook in the kitchen. They are for a certain cost. They are accepting some commercial businesses that is doing outsourcing services, specifically customer service. And they’re letting them work in other rooms. So people are repurposing to handle new types of problems. Right. So I think people are trying to figure things out along the way. But yeah, I think the main point here is that they’re new problems to solve anything. Our job right now as entrepreneurs is to find these new problems and look at ourselves what we have like what we do we have a skills, what do we have us talents as resources, and then try to kind of match the two right? So new problem, this is what I have. What’s a good new business idea that I can pursue to solve that newfound problem?

Adam G. Force 15:52

Yeah, now it’s as it makes a lot of sense that you know, my co founder, Amy, and I just had our little Facebook Live session where we were talking about how we’re The emotional talents intelligence factor is right now have empathy. Right, right, and really just putting yourself in other people’s shoes, because to your point, there is a whole new world of problems we have to now consider for our clients and customers and people that we help, right. So now they have different problems. And it’s like, how do we reshape what we’re doing? And, you know, I don’t know about you, but I see a lot of people getting into a panic. And, you know, because yeah, money goes out the door and stuff like that. But at the end of the day, we keep reiterating what you said, we’re entrepreneurs, we are problem solvers. So just take a step back, stay calm, put yourself in their shoes, and then either look at what you do, sometimes you can help people with a pivot that really isn’t going to be a huge change for you. Others, you may have to pivot a little bit more, but I think to your point, it’s just really like understanding this new set of problems and coming up with the solutions, right?

Kenn Costales 16:56

Yeah, definitely. And I think what what has also helped me and was Help comfort me during this phase is just realizing that this is not the first time that we’re having our session, right. So there were things that successful entrepreneurs did in 2008. There’s something that successful entrepreneurs did in 2001, in 1987, and then far back from that. So what I tried to do was that I just tried to kind of search around online, see what some other companies have done before in 2008 that have helped them manage through this recession. So looking at new ways to optimize for cost, like, for example, what I’m seeing is that, at least for some of the big bigger companies, they try to switch from labor to automation, for example. Yeah. So I think that’s one a big trend that I’m seeing. And another trend that I’m seeing is that you try to figure out what is the ROI of each and every piece of expense that you have, cut off all the ones which are not making money and reinvest everything into sales, marketing and r&d. I just read an article yesterday from being in company, which is this management consulting firm. They they said there that in 2009. Samsung in particular did that process which I mentioned, and they reinvested everything into r&d. And they pirated people from large consumer goods, companies like L’Oreal. So they got all of their best marketing talent. So in other words, they invested in sales, marketing and r&d. And what resulted from that is the galaxy series that is so popular today. So that launched in the middle of 2009. So I think so I think if you just reframe the way you think and just realize that this is not the first time the human race has faced or not the human race, but entrepreneurs in general has faced this problem. Yeah, just look for inspiration in 2008 2011. And just tried to figure out what other business owners have done before to manage the situation.

Adam G. Force 18:51

Yeah, that’s a good tip to just look back at other points in time where we face these types of shifts. I mean, it does happen and we all kind of just have to To put our best foot forward there, right? I’m just curious to like, are you seeing, you know, for yourself and the companies you support? I mean, I honestly see a lot of good positive results here because we see people pushing outside of what they would normally do. And when this is all over and said and done, they probably are gonna end up with different revenue channels that have expanded their business in the long run.

Kenn Costales 19:28

Yeah, definitely. So the cloud kitchen story that I mentioned earlier, is actually one of my clients and I was like helping them out in terms of setting that up. We’re also seeing a another restaurant business that also shifted online. So it’s actually a catering business, not really a restaurant, but so you have a restaurant, they also have a catering business, but their catering business is much larger. And since it’s Easter, they just realized that hey, maybe we can sell these large trays of food to people who want to prepare some food for Easter. So that’s working out well for them. So now so they have no Expand the revenue channel, even for me. So even for me while I am in digital and have the privilege of being digital, which means, thankfully, I’m not as impacted. I’m still also looking to disrupt myself. Yeah. So I’m now looking at more stable digital revenue streams. And what they mean specifically is pure digital bass like software, online courses, and other similar mediums. So I think in the past week, because I’m not the type of guy who usually does webinars, so for the first time, I didn’t have webinar for like about 15 minutes, because I think before that, I was pretty much I was lucky enough to get a lot of referrals for my business. But now with this whole situation, I’m not trying to do more marketing for myself. I’m now trying to pilot a new software that we plan to sell. And I’m also looking at other software businesses to pilot as well. So I’m also trying to distract myself because I also realized that hey, sure, I’m lucky in the sense of I am in the digital space, but it’s only one revenue stream right now. Which is digital services or the digital agency business? Yeah, it’s going to be wise for me to also diversify and look into other formats, such as an education format via online courses, or maybe a tooling format, such as software and many other ways to serve our customer base better as well.

Adam G. Force 21:19

Yeah, yeah. And so how has that progress been going for you?

Kenn Costales 21:25

I think in terms of internal progress, or it’s doing great, primarily, because I think the way that we are approaching it is that we try to do a hybrid version first. So what they mean specifically that for our existing clients, I tried to figure out, like what they want automated. So for example, we have this ecommerce client that wanted their logistics automated. So instead of an order manager, like pushing buttons in the backend of Shopify, we have built an automation tool for them that automatically, you know, does the logistics for them. So I think that’s one One thing Another thing is an automated dashboard. Which specifically means it helps one of our clients get the data from various sources from Facebook, Google, and all other channels, and then it will output a certain set of metrics that is custom for them. So we can’t use the traditional dashboarding software like scifi portfolio and all that. And instead, we had to build something from scratch. And we had to call the API’s through code. So we’re getting there. I think, at the very least, we have a hybrid solution. And I think the next step for us is to make it a pure software solution instead of a hybrid software and LIBOR type of solution.

Adam G. Force 22:37

So you’re doing custom is this internal development? Or are you able to, like outsource that to a team or something, but it sounds like you’re doing development yourself one way or the other?

Kenn Costales 22:47

Yes. So I actually know how to code. And I think for a very short time, we offered some web development services, but when I tried to sell it and when I serve some clients before with that, it was It was very difficult to manage because it’s an entirely new business in itself, right? So I decided to focus purely on digital marketing. And the only Avenue where I offer some web development is if it’s related to conversion rate optimization. So meaning if there’s a custom pop up that they want, if they want a marketing dashboard, that’s something that we can offer, you know, just six automation, it’s something that I did heavy research on. And if I could do it myself, and if I could pilot it, because I did the pilot first before committing, then I sold it. So I’m thinking piece by piece because because the reason why I learned how to code, I think in 2016, or 2017, so I took a three month boot camp. So the reason why I took that boot camp was because I wanted to build a SAS or software as a service business for myself anyway. So that’s why I learned that skill and slow and I’m slowly building that skill over time through helping an existing client base

Adam G. Force 23:59

cool, like The initiative? Yeah, I mean, that kind of skill set does come in handy for sure. Even when you’re working with others who are doing development, it’s good to have a base knowledge just so you know what’s going on.


Yeah, that’s so true. You know.

Adam G. Force 24:13

So I noticed too, you do a lot of support in the e commerce space. So I want to just kind of talk about e commerce a little bit. You know, you support people by, you know, driving up ROI, obviously, something everybody wants. And also, that probably starts with more higher conversion rates and leads. So I’m wondering if you could tell us a little bit about what you’re seeing in the e commerce space on, you know, how we’re, what are some of the things that are common problem for the sites that need to kind of be rethought with your support. Now, you don’t have to give us all the secret sauce or anything but trying to give people with e commerce or some tips and ideas about where things might be going wrong, why they might have low conversions. And maybe some ideas on what they should think ab

Kenn Costales 25:03

ut. Okay, sure. Um, I think my main philosophy when it comes to approaching ecommerce clients, or even any client in general, is to actually start with a wide base of ad copies and ad sets or targeting options to test. And what I specifically mean is that whenever I audit, an existing ecommerce store, they normally only have one type of ad copy or one type of creative that is being launched. Okay. And the problem with that is that you don’t, you’re pretty much putting all of your eggs in one basket, right? Because you’re, you’re betting everything in this single campaign. And it’s either success or failure. There’s only two outcomes. And what we do is that we try to test out a wide variety of ad copies and creatives. And the way we think through it is that we try to think in terms of different target markets. So even if say, for example, in the CrossFit space, so seriously You’re setting supplements specifically for crossfitters. We don’t lock ourselves down to just a crossfitter space. But we also try to target the strong men or the strong women, so people who like lift really, really heavy weights and go to competitions. We also try to target runners, we also try to target executives who want better performance. And that’s why they take a supplement. And we also try out other target markets as well. But our normal standard is that we need to have at least four different target markets, okay, and these target market should be completely different from one another. So, so that’s the starting point. And after that, what we’re going to do is that we’re going to target different interests or different targeting options for each persona. So for example, if we were targeting a crossfitter, we should target the CrossFit event. I forgot the name but I think it’s a I forgot the second word, but it’s CrossFit something so it happens early on in the Okay, we also target influencers in the CrossFit space as well. But our standard is to have three, so sorry, four rather. So we’ll have like four targeting options for each one. So what happens is that for target markets, times for targeting options equals 16 different varieties of personas, target markets, yeah. And targeting options. And there’s also another piece as well, which is for each persona, there’s also unique ad copy as well, right? Because the way you talk to runners is should be completely different than that of crossfitters from strong men, etc. What happens is that we have a huge variety of target markets and ad copies. And what happens after a testing phase which usually takes a week or two, we will be then be able to see what type of ad copy and what type of persona works better than the others in terms of ROI. So say for example, for runners, what works for them is pain based copy, like we lead with the pain. And then maybe for crossfitters, what works for them is review copies. Maybe for them influencers is very important as part of the ad copy, and they need to be featured there. So we get to see what works well in different niches. And what happens with that is that we get to iterate evolve it over time, and that results in improved ROI. And if something fails that say it’s below standard, or it’s below the target to see the target is five to one ROI, and it only produces three to one ROI, then we just kill it. So that’s how we produce results, because we put a lot of time and investment in the testing phase. Yeah. And that’s why you drive improved ROI for clie

Adam G. Force 28:44

ts. Yeah, but I mean, so let me take that a little bit further. So that’s on the front end. So basically top of funnel when it comes to ads, and read, you know, we always talk on our end about, you know, having like, here’s the thing, like you can run all the ads in the world and if you’re an Not set up on your, wherever you’re selling, right could be a Shopify store, whatever your website is, to optimize those leads, right? So like, You’re, you’re gonna fall short. So like there’s that one getting the ads to work and convert to the the lead, but then actually having yourself set up to get conversions and sales on the website, not only immediately, but over the long term. So any thoughts just on you know, like, for example, a lot of websites and e commerce will have a right when you get to the site on the top of the homepage, it’ll talk about you know, get a discount code or whatever. Right? Do you find that effective? Or do you find that you become a discount brand all of a sudden, like, that’s how peep that’s the only time people will shop from you now is if you’re like, they see you as a discount brand, like stuff like that I’m always curious about in the e commerce wo

Kenn Costales 29:50

Um, so for that particular piece, like having a discount up front. That’s actually not a problem from what we have seen. Although it I think the correct answer is It depends. It depends because the way I like to classify it is in two different segments one is in the consumable segment and the other one is in the durable segment. Yeah, so the robots meaning furniture, beings, bedsheets and furniture Yeah. So the durable space and there is a consumable space which is cakes, essential oils and all that. I have noticed that for the consumable space, discounts are generally okay and it does not harm the brand. So that works out well for them. But they do notice that in for the durable space, it becomes a problem primarily because they start to expect it because the problem with the durable space is that there’s no real urgency for people to buy as compared to let’s say essential oils, there’s normally like a relevant pain to see for example, you have a headache and you want to try essential oils, then you try out the essential oil or maybe if you if there is an upcoming occasion. Let’s say your wife or husband has a birthday And you want to buy a cake, you can buy the cake online. So there’s like a, like a very there’s a time dependent need but for durables, if you want to buy furniture, you can like delay it as much as you want. Because it’s there’s no real pain, or there’s no real need to get it soon, right unless you’re moving in. So what happens there is that if you provide a discount, especially in the durable space, people tend to dependent too much. So I do see that the percentage of people who buy with a discount in this space is about 50% of users in the durable space but for consumables is much less like 20 to 10%. So what we normally say to our clients, who are in the doula space is to try to figure out a different way to incentivize people. So for example, a good way to incentivize people is to have a club membership. So if you’re part of the club, which is a yearly membership, then you can get access to these discounts. I mean, notice that while because and what we noticed that lifetime value is really high, because since they’re in our member, they now have an incentive to keep buying some more from that store. Yeah, if it’s in a durable space, so that’s one model. And the other model is to have some sort of wrapper. So for example, if they buy a piece, say for example $10,000 worth of clothes or $5,000 worth of goods, then they will get a trip or some sort. So when they do provide discounts, it’s normally like a really, really high value discount, or you need to like commit a lot to get that. So at least that’s the way that they do it. Because the thing is, is a big difference because as compared to website that offers 10% discounts all the time, it feels a bit cheap, especially in the durable space. But if you do something like a like a club membership, or if you do a raffle that has a high cost of entry like $5,000 to get access to a ticket, then the conversation shifts a bit. The principle is the same. The marketing principle is the same which is to provide like value to the consumer, but it’s done. in a different way that resonates with the target market that they want to go after

Adam G. Force 33:03

Yeah, I like that, and it doesn’t devalue your brand, right? So you’re kind of keeping the integrity because, you know, well, you might have a very low key transactional brand, but if you don’t, and you want to keep certain integrity behind the value of it, that was always something I thought about, and I see it all the time, like how these ecommerce brands are doing that and sometimes, you know, it could be a major brand that already has a lot of trust and brand equity and they don’t do it or smaller brands, they tend to like, like you don’t want to reek of desperation, either, right? It’s not like to get a sale and then all of a sudden your brand is seen as and I always thought like they’re going to be seen as a discount brand. So these are good tips. I like the club membership, the raffles, there’s other incentives basically are saying that you can use in place of just that that low hanging fruit of a discount. Correct.

Kenn Costales 33:51

Purchase also works very well. What is it? A gift with purchase, so if you buy it, if you get bad, then you get the free Like a bottle or something, something, so some item that also resonates with your target market

Adam G. Force 34:04

Yeah. Interesting. A knowing and being somebody in the marketing space, curious how important the process of storytelling has been to help clients increase their leads and sa

Kenn Costales 34:19

I think storytelling is extremely important, especially if you are a independent ecommerce brand as compared to a retailer. So what I mean by these two is that our retailer sells are well known brands like Nike or Adidas and all that. So for them, you don’t have to do storytelling as much because the brand equity is so strong. The brand name will help in terms of the sales process. But if you’re an independent brand with your own, like, yeah, if you have your own brand, then storytelling is extremely important. And at least on our end when you write copy for our clients, both on the landing page and On the ads reach out different angles, like a pain based angle, or a worldview based angle or a proof based angle, all sorts of angles. And yes, to your point, storytelling is extremely important. And I would say, if I were to rank all of the marketing elements in terms of helping clients get traction online, copywriting is definitely number one copywriting are celebrating so I would look at the two, that would be number one and all of the other crazy tactics in terms of email automation, optimization, etc. Those are secondary to the right storytelling

Adam G. Force 35:35

Absolutely. Yeah, I agree. That’s, that’s something that we always try to, you know, educate our members and audiences about, it’s just like, it’s like having the fuel for the car, like everybody wants to tactics, like all the pieces that put the car together, but then when they don’t have the strategy, the stories, the insights to really, you know, attract the audience and be clear and effective in their communication. It always falls short. So we got to make sure we have that marketing strategy, right

Kenn Costales 35:59

Yep. 100% agree

Adam G. Force 36:01

Yeah. So what else is? So what’s going on here? I want to be respectful of your time. So what is coming for you down the road and I want to make sure you give a shout out. It sounds like you have a lot of insights and expertise to offer people. So if somebody wants to find you learn more, maybe you can do an audit for their business, like how do they reach you stuff like that?

Kenn Costales 36:21

Sure. So, so they can reach out to me again, it’s completely complimentary or free. You can go to monoliths, So monolith and growth And right there, there’s a free marketing audit button, and you can reach out to me and I’m more than happy to give you insights. And it’s not just like a quick call or anything like that, but it’s a proper audit. So there’s going to be 20 to 30 slides. Totally custom fit for you because the idea of that audit is that that serves as the foundation. If we do decide to work together, fine. And if we don’t, then at least you have a great custom plan that you can use on your own. So it’s totally like no strings attached

Adam G. Force 37:00

Excellent very cool. All right guys. I think that’s it it looks like they have a lot of good stuff so you could check them out again it’s monolith growth calm it’s that spelled mo NOL it Ah okay monolith growth all one word. can really appreciate your time today. Congrats on all the success and the things that you have going on and just like hearing how you’re pivoting and supporting clients is exciting. And yeah, appreciate your time. Appreciate you too. So for this episode, your next step is to join the Change Creator revolution by downloading our interactive digital magazine app for premium content, exclusive interviews, and more ways to stay on top of your game available now on iTunes and Google Play or visit Change Creator mag comm we’ll see you next time where money and meaning intersect right here at the Change Creator podc

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