Martin Ochwat: Scaling E-commerce For Long Term Success and Social Impact

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Martin Ochwat is an expert in growth marketing. In our interview with him, he imparts some sage advice every social entrepreneur should hear and introduces us to Moop, his zero plastic waste personal care product company set to launch in January 2020.

Martin’s career in growth marketing really took off when he worked for the mobile gaming company Machine Zone, manufacturer of some top-grossing mobile apps. He found himself on the marketing team, managing close to $100 million US just on Facebook ads alone. It made them one of the largest advertisers on Facebook at the time.

This experience taught him exactly how to drive traffic on the web and how to work through the algorithms and find the optimal way to get users to whatever product the business is selling. He was immersed in the ins and outs of digital marketing. By the time he left two short years later, he was able to work with some engineers and automate most of the advertising, essentially handing the management of their huge marketing budget to a machine.

We essentially had a machine just managing tens of millions of dollars a year.

Here’s a summary of the growth marketing advice Martin shared with us:

  1. Advertise on Facebook. It is still one of the most powerful advertising channels. Martin highly recommends advertising on Facebook, especially for B2C businesses, because it’s quick and easy to get started and you can build an audience and a following in no time — excellent features if you’re just getting started. He calls it a must-do.
  2. Do enough testing when running ads on Facebook (or any channel). One of the biggest mistakes people make, Mark asserts, is not testing ads enough before running them. He uses his experience at Machine Zone as a comparison: They would run over 10,000 new ads per day, testing dozens of different images, videos, and new ad formats. Mark points out that you can often get really cheap traffic through a new ad format.
  3. Keep in mind that when you’re just starting out, testing is a means of paying to learn. Martin assures us that it’s something we all go through. And eventually, those learnings will pay off and your ad cost will decrease or your sales will increase.
  4. Use lots of videos. Regardless of the platform you’re using, the part of the ad that people look at the most is the image or video. You get far more engagement when you use video so be sure to put most of your time into testing and using lots of videos.  
  5. Focus on being authentic. You’ll have fewer issues running your ads if you are more compliant and authentic since these days, Facebook is a lot stricter on their platform. Martin warns that you don’t want to get into the fake news style of advertising, especially if you’re a social entrepreneur.
  6. There’s nothing wrong with looking to close the sale right away. In fact, probably 90% of businesses in ecommerce are doing just that, Martin admits. If you’re launching a new business, you certainly want to get sales in order to prove out your concept. Just remember that at some point, you need to shift your focus to long-term, sustainable revenue. This is where advertising through emails or Facebook Messenger can be very effective.
  7. Build retention and lifetime value into your business model. Look for ways that you can build more value and add more value for the customer. Some examples include offering subscriptions, a loyalty program, or a special offer for customers who refer a friend. Your customers will stick around longer as a result.
  8. The business with the highest lifetime value within a niche is the one that wins. This is a quote Martin heard once and it has stuck with him. Basically, you can out-market others in your space by increasing the lifetime value of your customers because you’ll be able to spend more money on marketing and on product.

Moop: The Future of No Plastic Waste

In Q1 of next year, Martin plans to launch Moop, a D2C brand featuring a zero waste toiletries kit containing deodorant, shampoo, and toothpaste. Currently, Martin and his team are making sure their products are top notch. They’re running beta tests and sending out free samples to get feedback on the product.

Since they want to build a business for the long term, Martin says they’re investing in branding, good packaging, and formulation. He acknowledges that this takes time (the brand has been in the works since January 2019), but it lets you start out with a much stronger business on day one. It results in better customer experience and better retention.

Moop is currently pre launch, but you can joint their waitlist at

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Transcription of Interview (Transcribed by; there may be errors.)

Adam Force 0:00
Hey, what’s up everybody? Welcome back to the Change Creator podcast show. This is your host Adam Force. So if you missed last week’s episode, it was with Stephen Carl and we talked about supersizing your digital ecommerce conversions and impact, some really great nuggets in there. So check that out if you haven’t already. And this week we are going to be having a really great conversation for all of you out there trying to step up your marketing game in the ecommerce world.

Ecommerce or not, right. This is going to be very helpful and his name is Martin. And I’m not sure how to pronounce that…Ochwat. So I probably just butchered that and I’m sorry, Martin. But he’s a super cool guy and he has quite a background. So he’s a growth marketer, and a serial entrepreneur. He’s built several seven figure ecommerce businesses from the ground up. And right now, he’s working on a zero plastic waste company called Moop. And we’ll talk a little bit more about that with Martin. I mean, this guy has done…he’s managed over 100 million dollars annually with you know, Facebook marketing ads and done some incredible work. So he knows a lot about that kind of paid marketing and just getting conversions, building leads, building long term sales, right?

So we’re going to dive into all of that and see what he’s learned from all that data and experience so that you guys can benefit from it. So stay tuned and check that out. And if you haven’t already guys, swing by We have a lot of new content posted up there of different kinds. So really focused on the tools that we’re trying to give you clarity on what might be best for your business, but also different guides and articles in the social impact space that will be relevant for you as entrepreneurs. And we have our download: Three Proven Skills That Every Entrepreneur Must Have to Grow an Impact Business, some really powerful nuggets in there. And you know, I mentioned it on the last podcast, but check that out, I would swing through there, it’s right on the homepage, I think you’re going to find a lot of value in it. So if you haven’t already grabbed that, definitely get your copy.

These skills rise to the top, whether it’s from based on our experience or talking to some of the biggest experts around the world, right. This is always like tried and true proven skills that you really do need to have. So you want to start focusing in on that stuff. And if you’re not following us on Facebook, stop by check us out. We do most of our focuses on Facebook, to connect through social media. And once you’re on the page, if you want to dig a little deeper, you just go to our Facebook group, there’s a button there on the page, and it’s called The Profitable Digital Impact Entrepreneur and we have a lot of good conversation going on in that group. So really good little community of people who are really focused on building profitable businesses that make a difference in the world. So yeah, check us out there. And without further ado, we are going to get this conversation rocking and rolling. So let’s see what Martin has to say.

Announcer 3:15
Okay, show me the heat.

Adam Force 3:20
Hey, Martin, welcome to the Change Creator podcast show. How you doing today?

Martin Ochwat 3:24
I’m doing awesome. Thanks for having me, Adam.

Adam Force 3:26
Yeah, absolutely. So you are a marketing and digital growth kind of guy. And, you know, I’m excited to tap into your experience. I think this is a important topic for people in our audience. You know, especially as we’re trying to scale impact, we need to actually scale the growth of the business financially and in other ways. So I would love to just hear what’s your latest project? What do you have going on? What’s going on in your world these days?

Martin Ochwat 3:53
Sure. So I’ve been a growth marketer for five plus years now — work in various roles ranging from gaming, ecommerce, you know, doing contracting consulting for other mid sized startups. And most recently, I’m working on a D2C brand called Moop. So we’re doing zero plastic waste personal care products, and really trying to reinvent products people use every day such as toothpaste, deodorant, and shampoo, but ones that are good for both your body and great for the planet.

Adam Force 4:26
Yeah, sweet. So I’ll just…I’m just going to piggyback off that real quick, because I’m super interested in that. And then we’ll get into some of the other marketing stuff. So when you approach a company like that, you know, when I think about those types of ideas, and I see someone like yourself doing it, I start thinking, well, if we’re going to start a company like that, we want zero waste products, like where does it begin to start finding out Well, how do I start manufacturing these type of products or finding out how to create these types of products so that I can build a business with this idea.

Martin Ochwat 5:00
Yeah, that’s a great question. I think it’s a one I get asked a lot. So I think when you’re starting in this space, like, obviously step one is trying to learn the market in and out. Llike if you’re going to be starting a, you know, eco friendly company, you should probably try to live a more eco friendly life yourself, whether that’s trying out different products or different ways where you can reduce your impact day to day. But then once you have an idea and you know, you want to start building products, often a big bottleneck is you know, how do you source manufacturers and build it?

The good news is I’ve — and my friends, too — there’s usually people out there that are just experts at this. You can find them on different sites like Upwork and Fiverr. Basically, if you know…say you want to make a deodorant in the United States, you can find someone on Upwork where you send them the specs. You say, hey, I want to make a natural deodorant. Has to be U.S.-based. Has to be a great formula. And for not a lot of money, they can come back to you with a list of 30 to 50 different factories along with their contact information. And at that point, you kind of just hit the phones and email and try to vet who is the best one for your brand.

Adam Force 6:17
That’s pretty interesting. I never thought really, that going through a service like Upwork would find people who have those skill sets and…What kind of a…So if you’re doing a job posting on Upwork for something like that, I mean, what do you call those people that you’re trying to reach out to, like, what category does that fall into?

Martin Ochwat 6:36
Yeah, it’s kind of a, I guess, market research category. Say, you know, looking to find list of 30 plus factories in this space. And you know, I’ve gotten searches done for as low as like $50. So it really isn’t a high cost of entry. And I think it’s something a lot of people overlook, and they just get stuck at Oh, I don’t know how to find the factories to contact. So, you know, I’ll find a different idea. But it really is accessible. You just need to know where to look and get that information.

Adam Force 7:08
Yeah, that’s interesting. And I like it because you can give specs and then obviously you don’t have to spend your own time. Say you throw a couple dollars out there and somebody can start digging around who’s good at doing that research because you know, you can get sucked into this vortex or black hole on sites like Alibaba trying to figure out what’s what and next thing you know, you’re, I don’t know, what do you do? Go fly to China and check out factories? So it’s like, you know, I think I always found that to be very overwhelming.

And, you know, we try to create, for example, swag, we have some key taglines for our audience, and we want to have swag for that like t shirts, mugs and stuff. And it’s hard to find, you know, print on demand solutions for you know, organic t shirts and different things like that. So it gets a little bit difficult. So, kind of leads me to a question on you know, what made you start this particular company? I mean, there’s the obvious cause on plastic pollution, but what got you, like amped up on that category?

Martin Ochwat 8:07
Yeah, so I think there’s kind of a few factors that lead to this. So before starting this company, I had a few other smaller ecommerce businesses — mostly drop shipping. And I spent about two years being a digital nomad, visiting up to 30 countries with my good friend and also my girlfriend. And, you know, during the time we were looking for, you know, an impactful business to start not just, you know, selling everyday products like sunglasses, for example, but we wanted something with a mission behind it. And we just kept seeing this thread come up of, you know, there’s a lot of pollution in the world.

We would see it ourselves when we visit countries like, you know, go to the islands in Philippines and you see a lot of waste and trash there. And I think another thing that really inspired us was living in Europe for a couple of months. Europe is way ahead of the United States and North America in terms of the environment and sustainability. And we saw a lot of companies and entrepreneurs starting out there in this space with really cool products. And so that kind of inspired….the combination of that inspired us to, you know, try and bring this back home to North America and really build an ecommerce brand with a mission behind it that we can get really excited about.

Adam Force 9:28
Yeah, I love that. And I hear so many times that it’s travel experience that inspires these ideas to do something and I’ve had the same experience where I’m out in these very remote areas of Costa Rica and you just feel like you know, there’s no way there would ever be any trash and then you can walk down the beach and you’ll see it’s not little shells. And sometimes it’s like little pieces of plastic that wash up from the ocean and it just drives you crazy.

It’s like, how can this be, you know? So yeah, I get that feeling of You know, you want to step up and try to do something. So it’s exciting to see that you’re taking those steps. But maybe you could take us back before this. And you know, you have experience as a growth marketer. And I’d like to hear a little bit more about that. So maybe you can rewind a bit and tell us how you got into that and some of the, you know, accomplishments or experiences you’ve had there.

Martin Ochwat 10:23
Yeah, definitely. So my career in growth marketing really started off when I got an opportunity to work in Silicon Valley. So I worked at a mobile gaming company called Machine Zone. They used to make top — or they still do but — they make top grossing mobile apps: Game of War, Mobile Strike. And at that time, I landed on the marketing team, started running Facebook ads with my boss and between the two of us we would manage close to 100 million US dollars per year just on Facebook, which made us one the largest advertisers on Facebook at the time. So it was really there where I got to learn the ins and outs of how do you drive traffic on the web at scale to both desktop and mostly mobile in our case, and then how do you work through these algorithms and, you know, find the most optimal way to get users to whatever product you’re selling. So I think that’s really what took off my career. And I learned, you know, going really deep the ins and outs of digital marketing.

Adam Force 11:29
Hmm, interesting. So I guess what were some…what are some of the…I guess you managed like Facebook ad budgets, like didn’t you have a massive Facebook ad budget that you were managing and stuff like that?

Martin Ochwat 11:42
Yeah, we managed close to 100 million a year in Facebook. And by the time I left, two years later, I actually worked with a few engineers to automate most of that. So we essentially had a machine just managing hundreds like 10s of millions of dollars a year.

Adam Force 12:00
That sounds pretty sweet. I’m all about automation, what kind of technology was that proprietary technology? Or is that something people can get their hands on?

Martin Ochwat 12:08
So the good news is a lot of the technology we worked on back in the day is now publicly available to people on Facebook. So this was back in, you know, 2014/2015. Features like, let’s say you’re running Facebook ads, one of the features they have now is split testing — if you want to split test two campaigns and see which one does better. Or if you want to just upload a you know, five different images and see which one works the best. Facebook has a lot of these features built in where they’ll just tell you, you know, hey, here’s the best performing image and it’ll automatically run it for you. Yeah, so I guess that’s the benefit now is from a lot of our learnings, I think Facebook had a lot of learnings, too, as we were one of their top clients. You get a lot of these tools for free.

Adam Force 12:54
Nice, nice and do you still find Facebook to be a powerful marketing asset?

Martin Ochwat 12:59
Yeah. Facebook is I think one of the most powerful channels still, especially for in the B2C side and a lot in the B2B I hear as well. The one challenge with Facebook today is it’s becoming more expensive as, you know, more advertisers are on it, the platform starts to saturate. But in terms of getting started, it’s super easy, super quick, and you can build an audience and a following, you know, in no time, so I’d highly recommend it. If you haven’t tried Facebook for your business, it’s a must-do.

Adam Force 13:33
Yeah, yeah, that’s where we put a lot of our energy. You know, we’re a smaller team and we can only focus on so many platforms. I found that trying to do every platform gets very distracting and I’d rather be a master of one than like, okay at many. And so I’m curious if you have any insights for people who are, you know, in the first five years of business, you know. They have smaller budgets and they’re trying to scale up their page or run their ads and get some conversions. Like, is there anything that stands out to you that might be beneficial for people to understand?

Martin Ochwat 14:07
Yeah, so I think the biggest thing I see is people are not doing enough testing when running ads on Facebook or really any channel. To give you an idea: at Machine Zone, we would run over 10,000 new ads per day. And that’s…I wouldn’t expect a small business to do that. But that goes to show how much testing we’re doing every single day with our creatives, you know, testing dozens of different images, videos, new ad formats.

Whenever a new ad format comes out, you can often get really cheap traffic through that ad format, whether it’s you know, Instagram Live or IGTV as just like an organic channel. Definitely test new formats. And then testing audiences, right? If you’re not, if you haven’t tested at least 100 audiences on Facebook, you know, you have a lot of opportunity there. So I think if you continue to take the testing mindset and just tweaking a lot of levers, you can get way, way better results that way.

Adam Force 15:09
Right. And I think a major barrier for people to get over — and this included us, I would say, two years ago as we were getting into bigger spend on a monthly basis, or even just the daily spend, right — and that was that when you have a new let’s say, product, and you’re testing to see, you know, maybe you want to get people into a sales funnel, and you have like a free offer, like a lead magnet, or you have like a webinar or whatever it is, in your testing creative and you’re testing if this funnel converts, there’s a decent amount of money spent in the testing environment where you may not be converting and getting a ton of sales, but you’re getting…you’re basically paying for data so that you can learn and then you start optimizing for sales. Is that… I mean, is that like a Is that how you guys felt about it? That sometimes you’re just paying for the data?

Martin Ochwat 15:57
Absolutely. Yes, starting out and when you’re doing testing you’re really paying to learn. And that’s something everyone goes through. I mean, a good way to look at it is if you already have some campaigns running, maybe you set aside five or 10% of your total budget. And that’s a constantly learning and testing budget. And that way, you know, once those learnings pay off, and eventually they will, you know, you could see, like, huge differences in your performance, like your ad cost might drop 25%, or you’re scaling up 30% more. And that’s only possible because of your previous testing learnings.

Adam Force 16:35
Yeah, that’s interesting. And the one challenge that we have found is that there’s so many variables to test. You can test the copy. You can test the images. You can test the audiences. You can test the, you know, the different interests that you’re aligning people to or maybe the lookalike audience or a custom audience.

And so I’m wondering with all the testing that you’ve experienced, are there certain variables that tend to have the most impact? Like, let’s say, the image you use or the copy you use? You know, if I was going to spend $1,000 testing 20 images, is that a smarter first test versus you know, 20 trying to test the copy, like, you know what I’m trying to say?

Martin Ochwat 17:17
Absolutely. So whichever platform you’re running on, you kind of have to look at it and see what, like, logically, what parts of your ad are people looking at the most, and on a Facebook or Instagram it’s definitely the image or video. So I would dedicate most of your time testing new creative content, and especially you know, in 2019 entering 2020, video is showing great results, you know. You get way more engagement, way…you have retargeting capabilities with video so if you’re not testing a lot of videos, even if they’re just scrappy, you know, slideshow style videos, you’re definitely leaving money on the table.

Adam Force 17:59
Yeah. Yeah, I love that retargeting type of funnel option that we have there. It’s pretty sweet. And to your point, like, you know, I think a lot of people have their guards up when they’re seeing yet another, you know, offer for something because you’re not necessarily on Facebook like looking for those things so it’s a little bit more passive for them. And do you find that more genuine authentic kinda like? I don’t know, it’s I’ve heard that that stuff does better for some people, but I’ve also heard that you want to make it like it’s almost like a news type thing because news gets the most attention.

Martin Ochwat 18:38
Yeah, so you really want to stand out I think and try to always be testing different angles. That’s an important part of it. Yeah. Being like these days, Facebook is a lot more strict on their platform. So being more compliant and authentic, you’ll have less issues running your ads versus you know, you don’t want to be getting into like fake news style of advertising especially if you’re like a social entrepreneur. But I like your point of testing a lot of angles, you know. You can make it seem more like, you know, eye catching wow like news style headlines and then you can try authentic headlines and see sort of what resonates with your audience.

Adam Force 19:18
Yeah and it just comes right back to the testing. Because everyone’s audiences different. I think there might be some common denominators just from a Facebook you know audience in general meaning like the kind of headspace someone’s in and just, you know, if they’re gonna…if it looks really salesy, and like that car salesman kind of feel people will probably stay away. But I think that granular testing is really the only way to find out what works best with your specific audience. That’s all really helpful feedback. And yeah, we’ve been really playing around a lot with the Facebook stuff, too. So definitely good results, but I do see it getting more expensive.

One of the questions I’d love to hear from you is you had a nice focus for a while with several ecommerce businesses, and as you’re building those businesses, you know, especially in those first few years, you know, I see a lot of people in ecommerce…it’s different than having a coaching business or selling digital courses and stuff like that. So when you have ecommerce, I go to these websites, and I’ll scout them out, and I see that they’re always trying to just make the sale. And then you go on Facebook, and it’s product promotion, product promotion, product promotion.

And you know, I’ve always found that you get a lot more value if you get somebody you know, onto your email list so you can keep talking to them because they may not buy right away, but then you can continue that conversation. What kind of strategy…I mean, does that align to how you saw a good approach? Like what was the approach from an ecommerce mindset that was helpful for you guys?

Martin Ochwat 20:48
Absolutely. So I think you’re totally right. Probably 90% of businesses I’ve seen in ecommerce are just looking to close the sale right away. And you know, that strategy starting out is not the worst strategy, right? If you’re launching a new business, you want to get sales to prove out the concept. But at some point, you need to shift your focus to how do you create long term sustainable revenue, right? It’s, yeah, if people just do one purchase and they never come back again, you know, eventually that business is not going to work. You’re just going to run out of people to sell your products to.

So capturing things like their email address, very helpful. You can continue to you know, send them emails until they unsubscribe or you just find they don’t interact anymore. Yeah, things like Facebook Messenger. I was probably one of the first advertisers on Facebook Messenger. We made a killing doing promotions through that. It’s a lot more strict now but there’s a lot of retargeting opportunities or, you know, it’s another way you can interact with customers where they have open rates of over 50% on your messages, which is still pretty insane.

And then the third thing I’d add is trying to build retention and lifetime value into your business model. So whether that’s offering subscriptions, you know, offering some sort of loyalty program for customers that have bought a few times, or even referral programs where they refer their friends, and both of them get some sort of special offer. These are all ways you can build more value, add more value for the customers, and as a result they’ll continue to stay customers for longer.

Adam Force 22:29
Yep, I love that. And that’s the thing we always talk to our audience. You know, in our program, we have a program where we do some educational stuff and coaching and we always talk about stop looking for the short term ROI and look for the long term ROI and think long term because you’re going to have new business, but then a huge part of that revenue to scale the business is the renewal business. So getting that business to repeat and grow and continue is going to be a major miss if you don’t have that renewal strategy. So that’s a big part. So it’s nice to kind of hear you back stuff up.

Martin Ochwat 23:01
Absolutely, yeah. And the other thing I’d add is I heard a good quote once. Usually the business with the highest lifetime value within a niche is the one that wins. And the reason for that is if you can increase the lifetime value of your customers, you can spend more money on marketing, you can spend more money on product and at the end of the day, you’ll be able to outmarket others in your space.

Adam Force 23:27
Exactly. That’s a great point. And, you know, having that long term strategy allows you to optimize the value of a lead. So to your point, that means you could spend more. So if you’re getting 100 people as let’s say it’s 100 leads, and you just get…there’s only one person out of 10 that’s ready to buy, instead of just selling them and you get them on your list and then you can get maybe four out of 10 to buy. So now that pool of 100 people you get more, right? You get you just quadrupled your sales for that particular spend.

Martin Ochwat 23:57
Yeah, that’s definitely the right way to look at it. So if you can focus on that, you’re going to have a great long term business.

Adam Force 24:03
Love it. Love it. So tell me now a little bit now that we’re going to…let’s just shift over to your latest zero plastic waste business. Where exactly are you in getting that off the ground? Is it up and running? So I didn’t see a link or anything like that yet?

Martin Ochwat 24:17
Yeah, so we’re pre launch right now. We have a waitlist you can join at www.getmoop.coom. We have a few thousand people on the list now. So really what we’re doing pre launch is making sure our products are top notch. We’re running beta tests, you know, just sending out free samples of products to people and getting genuine feedback. And we’re looking to launch in Q1 next year. So, yeah.

Adam Force 24:45
That’s exciting. How many products are you starting out with? Like, is he going to try to just sell one type of product to get rolling or a whole suite? What are you trying to do?

Martin Ochwat 24:54
So really, our our starting point is we’re trying to make your zero waste toiletries kit. And that starts with a deodorant, shampoo, and toothpaste. So those are our three core products. We’ll be adding other complimentary products as well down the line, but we really want to tackle products that you have to use every day like most people are using, you know, anyway, and how can we just make them less waste so that they’re both good for you and the planet?

Adam Force 25:23
Yeah, I love that man. These are like always business ideas that I historically used to think of and my skill sets were never really in this kind of ecommerce space. And I was like, man, I really just don’t know how to get these products like created, son of a bitch.

Martin Ochwat 25:39
Now you know, you know the secrets of Upwork and Fiverr.

Adam Force 25:42
Yeah, well, you know, and it just takes time, right? Like, you don’t want to rush the process. I feel like you do want to take your time to do the due diligence, take your time to get samples. You know, test the market with your stuff and prepare an actual launch of the business and, you know, that takes a while. Like how long have you been in process? Like just getting this off the ground at this point?

Martin Ochwat 26:04
Yeah, so in our case, we really started working on this in January. So it’s been almost a year now. And like you said, we want to build a business for the long term. So we’re investing in branding, good packaging, so much sampling and formulation, and just getting customer feedback. So all of that takes time. But it lets you get out the gate with a much stronger business on day one. And so that’ll give you a better customer experience and better retention.

Adam Force 26:35
Very cool. Very cool. So I’m curious…obviously, you’re going to be applying now all these strategies you have for Facebook and all that kind of stuff with your new ecommerce shop. What have you found is a good you know, we call it a high value content offer, which is you know, someone comes to your website, and if you want to start a conversation with them, you give them you know, some one step closer to solving whatever problem they’re looking to solve and that might be to buy a zero waste product. And so how do you get them on your email list?

You know, a lot of these ecommerce places will have, you know, a pop up that comes up and it’s like a discount code or free shipping and you know, things like that. You know, ecommerce again, it’s a little different than a coaching or digital courses and all that kind of stuff. So I’m curious if you have…and obviously you guys haven’t put this together just yet. But you know, in your mind, like when it comes to an ecommerce space, do you have any thoughts on you know, what might be a good idea to get people on the list?

Martin Ochwat 27:34
Yeah, so I totally agree. Most businesses just do like a pop up after 30 seconds: get 10% or 20% off for joining our list. I mean, the reason they do that is it does work but it doesn’t really build you know, a great relationship with the customer and might make…they may see you as like a more of a discount brand. I think if you build a strategy more around content where you know, a lot of customers are going to find you on social probably on Facebook or Instagram.

If you can share helpful posts and stories there to get them warmed up. Have you know a blog or podcast or video series where you have a bit more content, and you can still do that pop up on your homepage, but it doesn’t have to be a discount. If you, you know, you make it cheeky or interesting and say, Hey, we just…we’ll just give you like the best content free of charge, like live a low waste lifestyle in five easy steps. A lot of the time, that is enough to get people to sign up via email. And, you know, you don’t have to discount your brand on day one. So that’s what I’d recommend.

Adam Force 28:44
So that would be like a lifestyle checklist like five, five ways to do this. And like, you know, just simple things. And I like what you’re saying because you’re right, you have to warm them up. And if you want to build trust, you need to have a certain conversation with them. And I think that the people that become real advocates, they’re the ones that do invest in understanding like your stance on the cause or your story and all that type of information. And as they do absorb that, they become real buyers who will renew and really love what you do, right?

Martin Ochwat 29:13
Absolutely. Yeah, those are…you want to look for brand advocates, I think starting out especially. And if you can build a small community of people that just love your product, and they share it with their friends and family and stay engaged, like that’s kind of your beachhead market, and you can really expand your business from there.

Adam Force 29:32
Beautiful. Yeah, I love that. So I think we’re coming up to the end of our time here, and I just want to be respectful of your time. And I appreciate all the great stuff and I’m excited to see…so the brand name is get Moop. Right? So that’s going to be the new company name.

Martin Ochwat 29:50
Yeah, so our name is Moop. And yeah, it stands for Mindful of Our Planet.

Adam Force 29:56
Cool, cool. Cool. Well, I’m excited to see where you go with that. We’ll keep an eye out and it’s So if you guys want to get signed up to see where that goes and be notified about the updates, you guys can just pop over there and check it out. Martin, thank you so much for your time. Very much appreciate it.

Martin Ochwat 30:16
Yeah. Thank you, Adam. It’s been a pleasure speaking with you today.

Adam Force 30:20
Awesome. We will stay in touch and talk soon.

Martin Ochwat 30:23
All right, take care.

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