Shane Foss: Disrupting the Healthcare Industry To Help Underserved People

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The healthcare industry has not changed much over the decades and is ready for disruption! But how? We talk to Shane foss who is taking it head-on. He shares his strategy but also other areas in healthcare that could be lucrative for entrepreneurs.

About Shane

With over 20 years of tenure as an executive in the medical industry, Shane Foss became frustrated with how under-served Americans were with the current healthcare options. He set out to make a change and in 2018 achieved this goal through launching Hooray Health, an unconventional health insurance company dedicated to providing affordable basic and urgent health care alternatives to high-deductible health plans. Through Hooray Health, Foss and his team focus on offering peace of mind to lower-income individuals and families who face medical challenges, while also providing business owners with an affordable way to reward and retain employees. Partnering with companies like Sedera, Ameritas, and Aflac, they have be able to add critical services and supplemental plans giving immense value to employers and individuals. Throughout his professional experience, Foss has negotiated complex, multi-million-dollar contracts, worked in device sales management, created business strategies, and optimized P&L. He holds an MBA from Rice University’s, Jone’s School of Business, a BS from the University of the Incarnate Word, and a Surgical Technologist Certificate from the United States Air Force.

Learn more about Shane and his work at > https://hoorayhealthcare.com

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Transcription of Interview

(Transcribed by Otter.ai, there may be errors)

Adam G. Force 00:11

What’s going on everybody? Welcome back to the Change Creator podcast show. This is your host, Adam force. If you missed last week’s episode, it was with one of the founding partners of a company called lime. If you’ve seen all the scooters running around, if you live in the city that they’re doing one of their tests and they’re all over the world now. They are really transforming urban living with this thing called the micro mobility movement. So we talked about that industry, the trend for disrupting transportation and how it impacts climate change, and all that kind of stuff. So it’s a really great conversation. If you missed it, I would highly recommend you check that out. There’s lots of golden nuggets in there from Andrew. This week, we’re gonna be talking to Shane fosse. He’s the CEO of a company called hooray health. So Shane has over 20 years of experience as an executive in the medical industry and he became frustrated Did as all entrepreneurs do with a problem, the problem was that they’re the Americans were underserved. So this is us base. They’re underserved with the current healthcare options. And this is an area I wanted to discuss as healthcare. It’s a very important area. And it’s been like a long standing industry that hasn’t really changed much. So to see somebody disrupting it and learn how they’re doing that, I thought it’d be a really great discussion, and it’s an area that we need a lot more entrepreneurs in. So he set out to make a change. And in 2018, he changed the goal by setting up and launching hooray health and they describe it as an unconventional health insurance company dedicated to providing affordable basic and urgent health care alternatives to high deductible health plans. Alright, so we’re going to talk about the industry how and Andrew. Shane will also help kind of we’re going to get into maybe some areas that entrepreneurs can get involved to disrupt the healthcare industry and then talk more about what they’re doing and stuff like that. So this is really relevant for business owners and for individuals who are looking for health care options and want to understand the industry. Okay? Step by Change Creator comm lots of fresh content going up there, guys, we just keep it flowing. And we love to make sure you get your hands on it. Tons of good, good stuff. You can also get on the waitlist for the captivate method right off our homepage. Don’t miss out on that opportunity. It is a powerful, powerful community. And we’re having a lot of fun with people that are already involved. And hopefully this is something that can help grow and sustain your business. Right? So it is all about getting it set up, right, how to tell your story to the world and put it at the heart of your marketing, right? This is how we connect with people. And then you got to actually set the business up to scale, get more leads, get more customers, and we got to do these things, right. There’s a million different options out there. And what our team is going to help with is giving clarity about the messaging clarity about yourself. And clarity about the execution. So check that out when you get a chance Change Creator calm. And I think we’re gonna dive right into this conversation with Shane right now. Okay, show me the heat. Hey Shane, welcome to the Change Creator podcast show how you doing today?

Shane Foss 03:18

I’m doing wonderful. Thanks, Adam.

Adam G. Force 03:20

Awesome. Where are you located from? I forget.

Shane Foss 03:23

Oh, Dallas, Texas,

Adam G. Force 03:25

Dallas, Texas. You know, my sister lived in Texas for, I don’t know, 15 years. She was in Denton, which I think is just outside of. Yeah, just north of us.

Shane Foss 03:33

Yeah, just north

Adam G. Force 03:34

of Boston. Now. I have been to the Lonesome Dove and I know that is a very, very good spot for dinner. So that’s definitely yes. There’s a couple spots in Texas that I do love.

Shane Foss 03:43

Yeah, yeah, it’s great state. I moved out here from Minnesota. She’s 20 plus years ago now.

Adam G. Force 03:50

So Oh, wow. That’s a big change. cold cold cold to pretty hot.

Shane Foss 03:55

Yes. Exactly.

Adam G. Force 03:56

Exactly. Awesome. So you No, you are CEO of hooray health, lots of stuff going on here. And I love to talk about the healthcare industry. I think it’s such an important topic and it needs a lot of love these days. So we’ll dive into that in just a minute. But maybe you could tell everybody just what’s going on in your world these days with hooray health, like, what’s the latest and greatest?

Shane Foss 04:20

So, we’re really excited. We We just finished our Series B funding. We closed that up, actually last week. So that was a big milestone for us. We are we’re a startup. We’re, you know, almost three years into it. And we have just gotten to that hockey stick of growth. And so we’re a we’re a product that basically addresses basic medical healthcare coverage for hourly employees, part time employees. And it’s a it’s a product that really is there to serve a purpose. For somebody that cannot afford major medical, and a lot of people don’t realize that when you’re when you’re actually, you know, buying a, you know, $1,000 a month or 1500 dollar a month family plan, that, you know, you’re not going to spend all of that money, right, you’re not going to spend anywhere near that money, you’re gonna have all these deductibles and out of pockets and, and so you’re spending all this money that you can afford. And a lot of people just say forget it, and then they end up with no health coverage. And that’s where we come in. And so, you know, we were really focused on addressing those needs for the people that need it the most.

Adam G. Force 05:41

So, I mean, I like to just know a little bit about how you got there because I in my personal opinion, when I think about the healthcare, industry and insurance of any kind, and you call you say, assurance, which I think is cool spin and I just think of it as such a it’s an old system that has been around for a while done a certain way and how like, I’m curious how you got to the point of actually thinking about tackling this thing and doing something different.

Shane Foss 06:11

So, my background, really, I wasn’t in health insurance. I was from a been in health care in medical device. So as worked with a large, large medical device, orthopedic metal, medical device manufacturers running sales organizations for them. And I’ve always loved healthcare. My wife’s an anesthesiologist. We volunteer every year for medical mission work down in Guatemala, and so it’s, I love healthcare. I was introduced to health insurance after I joined a startup, I guess it was probably about six years ago now five or six years ago, and I just fell in love with the health insurance space because I saw all of this opportunity and I think as an entrepreneur, you you see the process problem, then you’re wondering why people aren’t addressing it. And then so you come up with a solution. And then you build your, your product based on that. And so I’m the founder or co founder of ways I listened to him talk a couple months ago, and we were in this meeting together. And, and he said something that was very profound, it said, Love the problem, not the solution. And so, you know, so what that means is, you know, you got to have a problem that makes sense that needs to get addressed, right? And then you got to fall in love with the problem, not your solution, right? Because that solution, just like for us, you know, it evolves it’s an evolution, right, the, the product you start with, is not what you’re gonna end up with, and it may not be what’s successful. And so, you know, it’s really interesting. I think that being an entrepreneur is, is a huge blessing in the sense that you get To get to go to work today every day and not know what it looks like, right? I mean, there’s something new that happens every day that you didn’t know was going to happen. And so, you know, in preparation for that I, you know, I worked for some great companies, you know, one of them was Stryker orthopedics that really, really gave me the foundation in a business standpoint, to do what I’m doing today. And, and so it gave me the confidence to do what I’m doing today. And so, you know, as other entrepreneurs are out there, getting ready to identify that that problem and build a solution, you know, it’s it’s a daunting task, but if you’ve got the foundation, it’s great.

Adam G. Force 08:41

Yeah. And so is this problem that you’re solving? Do you see it as something that’s just always been around? Or is it something that’s really starting to blossom more now?

Shane Foss 08:56

Well, it’s definitely blossoming I think it’s been exasperated by Obamacare, the ACA, the implementation, you know, that really, you know, I know that the idea was sincere and it was a good, good intention. But the problem is, and anytime you rush to a solution, you know, of course, you’re never going to have all of the angles figured out. But when you rush to a solution like that, that’s this complicated and massive. You’re, you know, you’re going to have follow, you’re going to have huge issues. And one of the things that’s come out of this is our uninsured rate continues to grow dramatically. But it’s really, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s prevented our hourly rate to really grow that middle class, we’re destroying the middle class with the cost of health care. Healthcare now has become, you know, if you’re a part time or hourly wage employee, you pretty much don’t have health insurance. You Don’t have any options. You know, when you’re working for these large corporations, they’re covering the employee. But the family now is 1500 1900. You know, we just saw a renewal for 20 $700 for a family, right with a $6,000 deductible. You know, 20 $700 a month is not sustainable when 75% of America still makes less than $50,000 a year. So, so the problem continues to grow. And so what we’re really trying to address is that population that can’t afford any type of coverage, and we’re giving employers especially large employers the opportunity to offer a product that is that is an affordable kind of basic solution for these hourly employees that are typically younger, right? Most of our population is under 45. And so it just gets them to a doctor with no balance. bills, and you know, you’ve got to fix payment, you’ve got access to telemedicine, you know, 24 hour medical concierge. And then we have a mobile app. Right. Imagine that. I mean, the healthcare industry is so behind in the times, right. But you know, it just so we just do the basic things for this population. And you know, what, our plan starts at $99. Right. So a month, I mean, so it’s very affordable. Yeah.

Adam G. Force 11:29

That’s interesting. And I’m, I’m curious, just, you know, over time that has passed, you know, 10 years or so as you know, coverage costs go up, more people are uninsured. I mean, how have you seen the dynamics of the health care, industry evolving? This could include things like technology and things like that, so that we can start seeing a shift in how it’s provided to people like like you’re doing like what are some of the the changes we see Make some new opportunities possible.

Shane Foss 12:03

So I think really the, the willingness as the, as the millennial generation, which is really our first technological generation, right, they’re born with a, you know, with technology in their hand. I think that they’re more willing to implement, you know, telemedicine, I think some of the things that they’re they’re doing with virtually are is really important, you know, especially mental health, there’s a shortage of mental health professionals today. And, and actually, funny fact is the millennial generation is the highest utilizers of mental health services. So that poses a problem. So I think that that video, face to face technology, I think is great. I think the ability to even talk to a physician on the phone is important. But you know, it’s interesting because healthcare in general There’s, there’s innovation, but it’s very incremental. Right. There’s not a lot of leaps and bounds. Right. So, you know, when you go from, you know, if you look at the iPhone from in, for instance, right, from the, you know, the the razor flip phone, I mean, that’s a dramatic leap, right? I mean, that’s a, that’s a huge jump. Well, when you look at medicine, everything is incremental, because it needs to be clinically tested and proven. And, and it’s a it’s a generation or a generation Excuse me. It’s a it’s a system that is very ingrained in what it’s done historically. So, so new, new innovation in healthcare is really challenging, and the incumbents are so strong. When you look at you know, Blue Cross Blue Shield and anthem, you look at Cigna, Aetna, United Healthcare. They are They are really incentivized really to keep it more of the status quo. hospital systems. Yep. Right. Yeah. And so it’s really, so it’s, it’s hard for innovators in this space. Because, you know, there’s, there’s a lot of money there. That’s, you know, it’s better off not to do something, right.

Adam G. Force 14:24

Yeah, I mean, I see, like, you know, there it is, like, you know, it’s a for profit system. And I think to your point, they’re incentivized to keep things like the status quo so um, so that you know, as we have this conversation about the industry and why I’m asking you how it’s evolving and you know, your thoughts on those things because as we have people here listening, you know, I’m gonna want to get into what what your offer means to business owners and you know, people in general, but I also wanted to give people some insight just about maybe some of the The major issues and I know we’ve kind of glossed over a couple of these things. But I just want to get clear on some of the things that do need help now in the medical industry, so you’re solving a big problem with your business Hooray, health. And I’m curious if you have other thoughts or things that you’re seeing that really do need to break status quo and change, just to give people a little bit of thought, who are listening about? Oh, you know, like, maybe these are areas that they can see themselves contributing as well.

Shane Foss 15:30

Yeah, I think the organization of data and the transparency of that data I think, is really important. You know, if, when you look at healthcare, the crazy thing is, you know, if you want to break it down to the most basic scenario, if I walked into Walmart, and I bought a gallon of milk and I pay $4, for that gallon of milk, I go home, I drink it and you know, A week later, I get a bill from Walmart that says, well, actually $4 was just the initial cost now now you owe us another $10. Yeah. And oh, by the way, I can send you the collections for that. $10. And I will send you the and there’s no negotiating. Right, you know, is it’s so crazy, because what’s happened is there’s this bifurcation in the sense that or dis Association, if you will, of the actual consumer, which is the patient, and then the payer. So the hospitals and the providers are actually you’re not their customer as the patient. The insurance company is the payer, right? They pay the bills. So there’s that disconnect. So I think, you know, in the future, I think that there’s a lot of opportunity in this pricing, transparency, and this ability to go and shop for care because as more and more people be Come uninsured is not going to be just the people that are making less than $50,000 a year, we’re talking people that are making 100 to 200,000 that can justify a 20 $700 a month payment. Yeah. Right. So what they’re going to do is they’re going to take that 20 $700 a month, they’re gonna put it in savings, right? And then if something comes up, they’re gonna need to go get care. And so they may, they may have a crazy catastrophic plan that’ll cover you know, cancer or something big. But, you know, if I if they need to go in for a simple surgery, and even a rotator cuff surgery, you know, I can go in, I can get everything with Anastasia surgeon facility, implants, everything, I can get that done for $15,000 cash. Well, that’s less than what I paid for a full year of health insurance. So I think that this consumerism is really on the rise. It’s not there yet, but we’re at We’ve been at this tipping point for a while on the cost of health insurance. And so you’ve got a lot more people willing to look at that, and, and just say, Look, I’m just paying cash. So when I walk into a doctor’s office, I’m paying cash, what is it? And so if you’re able to, or not organize that data, and you actually get providers, you know, on board with that, I think that, you know, that’s a huge opportunity in the future. So all those entrepreneurs out there, they’re looking for some, there’s a there’s a great opportunity.

Adam G. Force 18:32

Yeah, sounds like there’s a number of gaps, and they can probably be broken down into an another, like, even more niche little areas, which is pretty cool. So that’s helpful. I appreciate you sharing those insights. And I’m curious then, you know, based on where you are now with hooray health, like, just let’s get just clear on how you are different than other insurance providers.

Shane Foss 18:56

Sure. So the biggest difference with us We created our own provider network with fixed pricing. And what’s very unique about that is we, we built a national network of retail clinics. So CVS, Walmart, Walgreens, they’re all our partners. And then you have, we have 14 of the top 20 urgent care of businesses nationally as well. But we’ve got, you know, just under 4000 locations in 47 states, but we have fixed pricing, and so we have a $25 copay, and then there’s no balance bill for our member. And the big deal about that is $25 is a very, you know, predictable and affordable way to get care, okay, because you need to have some skin in the game. But what’s nice is they don’t have they can go in and anything done under the roof of that provider, any of the services. So if they, they had IV, they had asthma breathing treatment, they got an X ray, the guy stitches, everything’s covered under our contract, so they don’t have to worry about about Knoxville. And so that’s our biggest competitive advantage. You know, the other thing is our mobile app, you know, obviously the mobile app with the full integration with. We’ve got telemedicine there, we’ve got our provider network, obviously, we own all of the code, we own the databases, you know, it’s our network. So it’s, so it’s really, it’s really a, all in one centrally located service for our members where they just go to the mobile app, and they can find everything. The other thing that we’ve done is we have on with that fixed pricing, we have fixed price contracting on labs and radiology as well, where, you know, you don’t have to worry about that balance bill. And I think that’s where, you know, it’s pricing transparency, but more importantly, it’s really contracted. You don’t even have to negotiate, right, you just, you literally go in and you know, it’s gonna cost $450 for an MRI, and that’s okay. Yeah. So not 4000 like, you know, I was quoted, so, but so I think that when you look at really key differentiators, it’s, you know, our provider network and our ability to really protect members from that balance bill. And why that’s important is one in five Americans are sent to collections for an unpaid medical bill every year, and the average is less than $600. So the problem is not the surgery, the cancer, all these crazy things. It’s literally the Hey, I went in to see my provider because I was sick. And I got a balanced bill for $600 that I can’t pay. Yeah. And when that when they would have accepted $100 for it, right. So that’s a huge competitive advantage for us. And then the and then the other part of it is that mobile app, that mobile app, really, you know, if you’ve ever tried to find a provider, it’s incredibly difficult, right? And in network provider, it’s very simple with us, you know, you just click search a govt nccn just shows you a right. And then and then the next step is the drugs. So we have our discount program right on the mobile app. So while you’re in the office, you can type in, you know, systemized, and if you had a sinus infection, and it’ll give you the lowest price right there, you can call pharmacist, but it tells you exactly where to tell the provider. Hey, would you just send the script over here? So it’s, it’s really a it’s a nice workflow. It’s a simple process for a very complicated industry. It

Adam G. Force 22:32

Yeah. And that is that’s what I was saying is so daunting. So it’s interesting to hear the steps you’re taking to solve these problems. And are you working with employers like business owners as well?

Shane Foss 22:44

Yes. So we, we work with small and large business owners, we we really focus on their hourly or part time contingent workforce. So a lot of times They have very low participation with that hourly workforce. So we’re able to go in and provide a more cost effective product for them. To make sure that they’re they’re covered. got it

Adam G. Force 23:15

got it. Interesting. And so um, so for entrepreneurs say you’re you’re getting to the point where you’re scaling up your team, you’re looking for charts now, we work with a lot of, they would have to be people who are directly employed. Right, but because you mentioned hourly and part time and things like that as the primary focus. A lot of times I find that those are people that are contractors, but you are talking about people who are fully employed, or are you able to offer insurance to as an incentive to those others other people as well?

Shane Foss 23:45

Yes, absolutely. We can sell it to them as well. So we we can, we can offer our plan through an employer to 1099 right. Contract labor, part time, hourly, yeah, so It’s, it’s a very flexible, we can actually sell it to individuals in certain states. We actually, we can. If you’re a freelancer, right, and you you’re looking for just some basic coverage, you can actually work with us. And if you’re in one of the approved states, then you can, you can buy or plan as an individual.

Adam G. Force 24:24

That’s pretty interesting, because I can imagine some of these startup teams today in the name of flexibility that you might have sales teams and stuff like that, that are, you know, contractors, they’re not necessarily full time employees, but you can still potentially incentivize them with these types of perks.

24:41

Yeah, absolutely. It’s a very inexpensive way. Right? Yeah. I think that with if you look at the market today, the market today is so competitive. It’s the it’s the most competitive it’s been since the tightest labor market since World War Two, right. So being able to offer A differentiated product like us, you know, the other part is, you know, hooray health, the insurance company the assurances are promised, right? We believe health care coverage. It’s too expensive. It’s complicated, it’s untrustworthy. And our goal is to change it. We, you know, we stand for something where our marketing is really, you know, it’s a true product. So our, the feedback we get from employees is they really like the product. They like, who who we are what we stand for, you know, we’re not just another, you know, carrier that, you know, plain Jane, black, white, you know, documents. I mean, we’ve got a little color to us. And so it’s, uh, yeah, so I think that it’s a really it’s a really good opportunity.

Adam G. Force 25:47

Yeah. I mean, so it sounds like you’re really trying to reduce the number of uninsured people and lower standard coverage costs that I mean, those are two key things, right.

Shane Foss 25:58

Yes, absolutely. We, we we always say we don’t compete against major medical, you know, if you have major medical health insurance, yeah, we’ll either supplement that, or we really compete against as not having health insurance. So when we show employers examples of, you know, in a different scenarios, it’s always against not having health insurance. Yeah. Because, you know, you look at these large national, you know, retailers, for instance, some of these national retailers have hundreds of thousands of part time employees, right, it’s 80% of their population, their employer, employee population, and they don’t offer anything today. So the bulk of those people are uninsured. And so it poses a huge quandary for them because people call in sick they can’t afford to go see a doctor. So you know, it’s and then things turn into more, you know, into worse things, right. You know, you end up getting bronchitis, then you get pneumonia, because you know, you Didn’t go in to see a physician to get the antibiotic. So I think that, when you look at the employers in general, employers in general are very maternal to their employees, they want to do the right thing, the offered, the opportunity just hasn’t been there to offer a product that really is effective. And that’s, that’s where, you know, for us, we really have a great competitive advantage, because our network is we match up really well with these national employers, because traditionally, you know, they could take care of their group in Texas, but then the rest of the, you know, 49 states are out well with us. You know, we’re we can have a contracted provider within 90% of all their locations today within 20 miles, which is a home run.

Adam G. Force 27:52

And it’s yours is there like a annual commitment or how is how flexible is the term that you’re someone works with you on

Shane Foss 28:00

Yeah, so if Well, there’s some legalities around it. So if they’re doing a pre tax, then they have to offer the plan for a full year. But if if they’re doing a post tax, then then it’s the flexibility is they can cancel it at any time. So it doesn’t matter. So those are just kind of the legalities of it. But we, we usually sign a contract with the employer to offer and it goes year to year. And so that’s, that’s, yeah, that’s what we do. Hmm.

Adam G. Force 28:34

Yeah. No, it’s interesting. And I mean, I just I, I’m curious and how I have two things. One, I’m curious how you a company like Ray health would be impacted. If you know somebody like Bernie Sanders becomes president and we do you know, single payer health care system are Medicare for all and all those things. Does that impact you in a good way or bad way? Curious

Shane Foss 29:01

Well, you really never know for sure until all the details are worked out. But, but I will, I will say this the, you know, if you look at Canada, if you look in, you know, in Europe and England, yeah, you know, where they have, you know, a single payer system. There really are two pairs, you’re you always have private insurance, employers still offer those benefits because, you know, as a competitive advantage. You know, it’s interesting because where I grew up in Duluth, Minnesota, one of our top revenue generators for the city was actually our Canadians coming down for surgery in in Duluth, because, you know, we’re only a couple hours from Canada. And the reason is, you know, once you once the budget runs out, there are no more total knees. There are more, no more, you know, hard casts and you know, a so I think that it’s it’ll be to be determined, but we’ll I think we’ll have a place no matter what. Just, there’s, there’s, there’s a good chance that even even with whomever gets in the White House that, that they’re still gonna, you know, Medicare for All is still not very popular with everybody because it’s, you know, 38 trillion the first five years I think it is on the budget. So, yeah,

Adam G. Force 30:33

yeah. Well, and it seems to me in these situations, right, you know, it’s like I always talk about not having a Kodak moment if we know the story of Kodak right. So it’s like someone coming up to you saying, we’re gonna have this whole digital world we don’t need your model anymore. Well, you could say, Oh, crap, I’m out of business. Or it’s kind of like Well, how do we just like you said the, the solutions always evolving, right. So the solution, how does it adapt to the to the marketplace and what’s going on? So

Shane Foss 30:57

Exactly.

Adam G. Force 30:58

Yeah, no, this is, this is Interesting stuff and you guys raised money. It sounds like you’re on your series. Be curious how much you guys have raised so far.

Shane Foss 31:07

So we’ve raised a total of just over $7 million. Total. Congrats. That’s awesome.

Adam G. Force 31:13

Yeah, very cool. So what kind of steps did you have to take to get your first round locked in?

Shane Foss 31:19

Really, it was friends and family. It was Yeah, I just went to went to a few of my friends and my family and, and everybody, everybody kicked in the first, the first amount. And then, and then once we kind of had the proof of concept worked out, we went out and professionally raised the Series B, and we’re very happy with our partners. We were very strategic about who we who we partnered with. And so we’re really excited, really excited. We got a lot of good things going

Adam G. Force 31:51

sounds like a chain sounds like I appreciate you sharing your insights about the industry and how you guys are solving some of these major problems and I look forward to seeing where you guys Take it so let’s stay in touch and let’s give a shout out. How do people find where do they find you the best place to find you and learn more?

Shane Foss 32:07

Sure is a hurry healthcare.com h o ra y healthcare.com. That’s the best place to start. Awesome, man. Well, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you, Adam. I really appreciate your time.

Adam G. Force 32:20

Yeah, that’s all for this episode. Your next step is to join the Change Creator revolution by downloading our interactive digital magazine app for premium content, exclusive interviews, and more ways to stay on top of your game available now on iTunes and Google Play or visit Change Creator mag comm we’ll see you next time where money and meaning intersect right here at the Change Creator podcast.