Listen to our exclusive interview with Cory Lee:

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What if you have an idea to do something HUGE, like start your own gym but don’t know how to make sure it works? Well, Cory Lee and his wife built 4 gyms and 2 health clinics in 5 years and sold them, so we decided to talk to them about how it all worked.

Cory Lee is an entrepreneur, business builder, and leader developer. He was trained and mentored by the world-renowned leadership expert John Maxwell and is now an executive director with The John Maxwell Team. In 2012 Cory and his wife opened their first business, a physical therapy clinic located in a town of only 1,100 people, Within 5 years they were billing over $2 million per year from that one location and had opened and successfully sold 2 physical therapy clinics and 4 gyms. Cory is an accomplished speaker and is often invited to speak and train employees at companies looking to develop a culture of leadership. He also provides individual leaders with opportunities to maximize their own growth through one-on-one coaching and mastermind groups. Cory is most passionate about helping entrepreneurs navigate business growth but not at the expense of their faith, family, and fitness. When he isn’t helping companies and individuals grow, Cory can be found spending time with his family. Cory and his wife of 14 years Kimberly reside in Mississippi and have 3 children: Colton (9), Kendall (6), and Brady (4).

Learn more about Cory and his work at > https://www.coryleeleadership.com/legacybuilders

We also recommend:

• Adam & Danielle: How Digital Conversations Drive Your Business
• Gessie Schechinger: Earn More Revenue with Smart Selling and Tech 
• Peter Montoya: Becoming a Transformational Leader For a Better Future

Transcription of Interview

(Transcribed by Otter.ai, there may be errors)

Adam G. Force 00:03

Welcome to the Change Creator podcast where entrepreneurs come to learn how to live their truth, get rich and make a massive difference in the world. I’m your host Adam forest co founder, Change Creator and co creator of the captivate method. Each week we talk to experts about leadership, digital marketing and sales strategies that you can implement in your business and like to go big visit us at Change Creator comm forward slash growbig to grab awesome resources that will help drive your business forward. What’s going on everybody? Welcome back to the Change Creator podcast show. Happy to have you here. If you guys missed the last episode, you can check it out. Damian, not Amy. Nope. Danielle and I talked about what digital conversations are and what they mean to your business. This is just an important marketing perspective to understand. So if you missed that one, check it out. There’s a lot of gold nuggets in there from Danielle and I. Okay, so For this episode we’re gonna be talking with his name is Corey Lee. All right, so he’s got a quite a background in 2012 him and his wife actually they opened up their first business and he’s going to talk about how all that stuff happened. But it’s interesting and you know, it was a physical therapy clinic and they also had some gyms, they started a gym. But within five years, they were billing over $2 million a year from just one location, and then they opened up a bunch of others, but they ended up selling two physical therapy clinics and four gyms. All right, so massive build ups and sell exit strategies, which is really cool. So he’s learned a lot over this time and how he actually kind of tested the waters got things off the ground, all that good stuff, and we’re gonna I’m gonna dive into that with Corey so you guys can really get some insights on how that all worked and how he made it happen. All right, so you know, he does a lot of talks. Now around company culture and leadership, and supports people on their own growth paths, right with coaching and mastermind groups, and he’s going to talk about some of that stuff here today as well. You know, outside of that Corey is a family man. He’s got three kids and all that good stuff. And I think you guys are gonna really enjoy this conversation. So lots to learn here. So stay tuned. Latest and greatest, you know, it’s interesting, because we had a, I had a conversation with somebody that sold 14 businesses now just the other day. So that is Greg shepherd. So that interview is going to be coming up soon and a few weeks. But something that was really interesting that he brought up about, we always say you got to slow down to speed up. And one of the things he mentioned was, it was he said, you know, you have to put more time into planning than you do in development. Not that you want to get stuck in the planning phase forever. But you know, we really do want to like build a strong foundation. That is the point he gives a really good story that demonstrates that So you’re building a strong foundation and taking your time on the key fundamentals, so that when you’re ready with that, the rest is going to go. It goes quick, right? The build is the easy part. It’s getting the right strategy and making sure that you know what you’re doing and you’re testing and you’re ready to rock and roll with a strong foundation that makes all the difference in the world. That creates fast growth. Right. So another exciting thing that happened recently that I haven’t really mentioned here on the show is I got this email the other day from I saw from Shark Tank on ABC. And I thought it was gonna be some like trick or spam. But no, it was actually their clearance department where they get legal clearance because they want to they want to show Change Creator magazine on Shark Tank. So How exciting is that? We were pretty jazzed up and pumped about it. So yes, Change Creator is going to be getting their appearance one way or the other on Shark Tank. That’s going to be the Blake Mycoskie, magazine cover because Blake is going to be a shark. So we interviewed Blake, there’s a video interview, you can check out that we did. And we put them on the cover of the magazine. And so he’s going to be a shark on there and he’s going to tell a story and part of his story and his road to success. He’s including Change Creator, so they’re going to be putting the magazine up on the show and people will get to check it out. Anyway, I thought that was exciting. And this is what good storytelling and Marketing Leads to and attracts people to and these bigger things then take place and that’s why we teach what we teach in the captivate method, guys. Okay, so let’s dive into this conversation with Corey. Okay, show me the heat. Hey, Cory, welcome to the Change Creator podcast. What’s going on, man? And how are you doing?

Cory Lee 04:46

Adam, thanks for having me on. Man. I’m excited about our conversation and really just talk about what’s going on. It’s just an exciting time. We were talking before we came on. We have three kids and they are all back to school. So maybe a little bit of sense of normalcy kind of coming on as well. So excited about that.

Adam G. Force 05:06

Yeah, was that that’s it. Where are you located? Again? I forgot.

Cory Lee 05:10

We are actually in Mississippi, um, people will hear the here the southern slang and they say you from Texas, right? I tried to cover it up, but I can’t but I’m from Mississippi.

Adam G. Force 05:20

Okay, Mississippi. Alright, so kids back in school that gives a little takes a little pressure off. I know, I’ve been talking to a lot of other my friends in my network in the entrepreneurship space. And it’s tough because they’re becoming the teachers, you know, as well. And it’s just adding this layer of complexity. Kids are getting bored. And, man, it’s just a big mess.

Cory Lee 05:40

Yeah, yeah. So here, they had an option of going back or doing online stuff and our son, he said to me, so you’re not gonna have me behind technology all day, are you? Yeah, they love people just as much as I do. And they want to go back. So yeah, it’s good stuff.

Adam G. Force 05:55

Good, good, good. Alright, so why don’t you give her us all just a little bit background. I know you’ve had an interesting past when it comes to building businesses selling them, stuff like that. So I think we want to dig into some of that today, because there’s just a lot of questions around how all that works. And so if you can just kind of tee us up a little bit with like the background in a nutshell.

Cory Lee 06:20

Yeah, so in a nutshell, so my background is actually in the physical therapy space. I’m a physical therapist assistant. And, you know, my wife, she is a physical therapist, and while she was in school, you know, like many entrepreneurs, we would be driving around town, and I’d have this idea of like, you know, wouldn’t it be cool? Like, wouldn’t it be really cool if we had our own business? Like our own physical therapy clinic and Ooh, you know, wouldn’t it be cool if this physical therapy clinic if we also had a gym along with it were yesterday physical therapy, but, you know, maybe we’re making an impact on the community. Well, wouldn’t that be cool? And you know, she graduated we we were actually out in Phoenix, Arizona for a time we moved back to Mississippi And about that time is when we transitioned into business. We opened up that business and we opened up. Adam, we opened up a physical therapy clinic in a town of 1100. People, man 1100 people, right. And, you know, and it was awesome. It was great. And our our focus was to make an impact on the community. In a five year period of time we, we actually had started four gyms, to physical therapy clinics, and in 2017, we sold pretty much all of that in a five year period of time in that one physical therapy clinic that we opened up in the town of 1100 people when we sold we were billing out over $2 million a year. And in 2017, we transitioned out and I now do business coaching and speaking and training, just love, you know, help an entrepreneur newars and really leaders step into their vision and their dream of owning a business or leading a team as well. So that that’s, you know, super quick super brief, kind of where I am today and what we’re doing now.

Adam G. Force 08:14

Yeah, I mean, I love that and I you know, I have been that person my wife and I were you know, we we got super serious about our health and we were going to that we were when we were living in Philly for six years we were going to the gym you know, four or five days a week sometimes he was definitely dragging me there but we made it and you know, like we kind of were like, man, it would be really fun because we always go to these gyms are like, this is cool, but man, I wish it was like this like that. And I know like there’s a market for this or that don’t make it be cool to really open up this kind of a gym. Right? So I’m curious as you had these thoughts. How did you decide on the like a type of gym to open? Like, what was the market? Who was it for exactly what was the style like? So how did you come to conclusions on what would make sense and Was there any preliminary testing to figure out this would work for you or not before you went all in?

Cory Lee 09:05

Yeah, that’s, that’s funny. So, you know, when we started I have zero business knowledge or business experience, right. But I had a ton of enthusiasm. And let me say we opened up in a small town, right? Like, if you would have went to a business school, they that’s probably not very smart, right? And what we did though, was kind of as you’re talking about what kind of jam and those kind of things I just did what I enjoyed to do, right like I was thinking about the gym, what what would I love in a gym? What what kind of classes or fitness or what kind of equipment would I like, and what people what you find is people are attracted to passion, right? And people saw the passion that we had and that that attracts people, the passion that you have for your business is very attractive, you know, yeah. And, and, and not They people with passion, they stand out. And people take notice. And a lot of people will get caught up in that way. So for us, it was just really what we were personally passionate about. And people were attracted to that, you know?

Adam G. Force 10:14

Yeah. I mean, I like hearing that kind of commentary. And I’m wondering, you know, so people say they’re attracted to Pat, and I think they are. I mean, I think there’s more like, when I worked in corporate years ago, they would say, what’s the width of them the what’s in it for them, and always thinking about the customer? And they’re gonna say, well, what’s in it for me? And they think more today we’re hearing will, what’s in it for you from the customer? Like, why are you doing this business and why would I work with you and they want to know a little bit more so having that passion and a real intention behind it, such as, you know, you had, I think translates like you’re saying, Yeah?

Cory Lee 10:55

yeah, you know, and, and as you’re talking there, what I found too, is when you You are passionate about, you know, you hear people talk about what’s your purple cow or I know you say the golden calf right? What makes you stand out? Well, what, what helps you exceed expectations? Well, I think it becomes easy to exceed expectations when you’re doing something you’re passionate about. So you you serve your clients or your customers, or however you define them to a higher level when you are passionate about what you’re doing. And that’s what I found for us anyway. Yeah.

Adam G. Force 11:28

Yeah, it’s true. It’s true. Um, you know, so let’s say you got this passion, you decided to do a gym that, you know, kind of reflects who you are. And you know, there’s other people out there like you that are interested in the same thing, right? And that kind of starts defining this differentiation. It’s, it’s based on yourself and your story and all that kind of stuff. But there’s got to be a point where we’re making some real business decisions, right? We got to put the CEO hat on, and we’re going to have to make decisions because you know, while the passion takes us to a certain point, there’s a A lot of mistakes to be made that money can go flying out the window or you hire the wrong PR and marketing teams too early or who knows what you buy the wrong equipment? Or you get a lawsuit? I don’t know. You know, so you got the CEO decisions to make. So we got to have a combination of passion and business smarts. So what were some of the steps like, let’s just let’s just stay with the gym idea for now. Because I’m super interested in that. And you know, this is obviously a physical store, but like, what were some of the early decisions in getting that set up from a business standpoint on Well, how do we get members? How do we get equipment? Like how do we get the money to do all this? Yeah,

Cory Lee 12:41

Yeah, yeah. So from the gym standpoint, I’ll tell you. We just started doing exercise classes out in a field and in a park, you know, and we would do that and we charge people $5 a class. And, you know, as that bill, we kind of, I guess, I guess you could say we kind of tested it that way. Yeah, yeah. And kind of built slow. And even then the physical therapy side, we built slow, right? We didn’t go all out from the get go, we, we built slow and developed relationships. And then from there, as the money did start coming in, then we started to invest in our business. But, you know, you talk about some of the decisions that we made when we started out slow, and we developed relationships, and we went from there. But, you know, as, as we grew, what I also realized was john Maxwell talks about being the lid on your business, you know, as the leader or as a business owner, you are the lid on your business, that your business will never exceed your ability to lead it. Yep. Well, I inherently kind of realized that that I was the lid on my business that I couldn’t do everything and I shouldn’t be doing everything and that we had a big dream. And if we needed if we had this big dream, then we needed a big team and that’s when we really kind of once we got it. Going saw the need to bring your own team members. And I’ll be honest with you, that was probably one of the scariest moments of our business is when we hired somebody else, right? You know, scary, leaving my job and my wife leaving her job. But when we hired that first team member, that that was probably even scarier, because now somebody else, you know, the decisions I made didn’t just affect me and my family now they affect to somebody else’s family. Right? And, and really, that drove me to become a better leader and to learn. So when we just started out slow and then also realized that we didn’t need to be doing anything and shouldn’t be doing everything. I mean, find other people that that kind of could fill in the gaps where my weaknesses are, and there’s many of them and where somebody can fill those gaps and you know,

Adam G. Force 14:49

Yeah, no, it’s important, and I think timing is important for when you do that stuff, right. So yeah, I’m sure you got a taste of that. And I think like you You answered one of my questions already, which was, you know, how are we testing these big ideas before we’re dumping, you know, all this money into it to find out that it doesn’t work. And there you go, everybody. I mean, here, you know, Cory, when they went to a park, they had people pay a few bucks, were they interested, but they’re also now just getting attention kind of building an audience, if you will, right, getting people familiar. And, you know, here you are, like, testing out the idea. And it’s like, if you’re getting people to sign up, and they’re taking the classes and they’re doing the thing, you might have a little something there. You can also have an audience to get some feedback from and learn from and connect with and all that kind of stuff. And they can become little word of mouth marketers for you. Hey, oh, this new gym is opening, right?

Cory Lee 15:40

Yeah, exactly. And that’s, that’s exactly what we did. You know, and I remember one night, we had just a real small area, but we had 41 people show up one night for one class. Oh, that’s great. And that that was kind of at the point that we realized, you know, we needed to do something we needed to take this. I think we have something here, you know, Yeah, yeah, it started out just doing a little bootcamp class at a park you know, for $5 a class but but but but also starting out small. It didn’t overextend ourselves, but it also helped us get good at first, right?

Adam G. Force 16:15

Yes, yes. Yes at the flow.

Cory Lee 16:18

Exactly. It helped me to. It really helped me to learn how to not only structure class but manage a class. And not only do that but pay attention to each person, too because it can and we’re talking about Jim stuff, but you know, it’s very easy to get going with all your hats that you’re wearing as a entrepreneur trying to get going you’ve got a market you got to do all these things, but Miss kind of the needs of the people that are coming to you, it’s very easy to do that. So it helped us get good first and grow, grow at a good pace as well.

Adam G. Force 16:54

Yeah, I like the idea of get good first, like, learn the flow. Get familiar. You know, you don’t have the overhead of a ton of equipment and a storefront and all that kind of stuff. So you got a lot more flexibility, less like stress and weight on your shoulders to figure this out. And so you got it. Now I am assuming when you started, you must have started somewhere where there’s like, you know, almost like maybe you had a class and nobody signed up, or then you had two people and then five people, and there must have been a little bit of progress there. Is that true?

Cory Lee 17:23

Oh, yeah, definitely. You know, and, and that could easily be dis discouraging. But then also found, you know, two people showed up, you know, and if two people I very much value time, I very much value my time. So I try to value other people’s time as well, right? They made a decision to get in their car, to drive to wherever we were, they made the decision to get out of the car. And if it’s just those two people, then I need to show up for them. Right. And because behind each one of them, there’s a behind that tree. There’s a forest Other trees, right? And they need to take care of them for the fact that they showed up, but then the the secondary part of that, too is, you know, if they’re served at a high level, when it’s just them, you know, they become raving fans too. And that’s what we love to create, right?

Adam G. Force 18:17

Yeah. I’m curious, can you tell me a little bit about when you started getting the word out to invite people to this concept that you have to see if they would come and join? How did you get the word out? But more importantly, what was your story that you were telling them of why you’re doing this and what this is all about?

Cory Lee 18:37

Hmm, that’s good. That’s good. So you know, you do the all those social media type things. And what we did at the time, was just post pictures, put it on social media, we tagged them, and you know, they love seeing that and they would comment and, you know, that does something to the Facebook algorithm and those kind of things but we’re also very intentional to not This is where we had failed in other parts and sometimes fail in the business now is being intentional about hey, you know, we’re having class Thursday, invite a friend, right? specifically asking for that referral, if you would say, right in and really getting going that way. Kind of getting that marketing out really helped that way too. And in our story, too, you know, like I said, we wanted to do something that was impactful for the community, we did not want to just be another business that was part of the community. So we want to impact the community and one of our visions was, Mississippi is constantly one of the most obese states in the country where the whole country has obesity epidemic, right? Well, Mississippi has the number one is always you know, one of the worst and could Not stand that right, we wanted to change that. And that was kind of our vision for it. And, and one of the visions I had was to make this town, this town of 1100 people, one of the healthiest small towns in the state of Mississippi. And that was kind of my vision for it. And you kind of cast that now, making making this town, one of the healthiest towns in the state of Mississippi. I never really said that to anybody other than myself. But But the other part was the vision that I was trying to cast where we’re doing this kind of community type thing. We’re wanting to be a part of the community. And, you know, when there were community events, we tried to show up, Ryan and we tried to show up and kind of unique and different ways you know, and just being a part of the community and real quick own that that was kind of my vision for it was to make this town one of the small, healthiest small towns in the state of Mississippi will. The year we transition out they were awarded a Blue Cross Blue Shield award for being one of the healthiest small towns and The state of Mississippi which was really cool to kind of see the community do that and to be a very small part of helping them do that too. So that was kind of cool.

Adam G. Force 21:10

That is kind of cool. I like that. So okay, so we got through this process of kind of getting your story out there change is having an impact on the community and you know, kind of doing doing something special and from the heart right talks about you know, you were talking earlier about how important it is to have passion in the business. And so you got that out there as your marketing and spread it on social media invited people to the parks, no overhead, great, great way to test this type of thing. Now you’re ready to buy a place it did. I mean, I find it daunting. I go into a gym and I don’t know how big the gym is or what kind of gym you have. Exactly, but you know, it’s like you got to get all the equipment, you got to get a location and buy the property and all that stuff. How do you handle those types of things like what Are some of the steps just high level that you had to consider in order to make that happen?

Cory Lee 22:07

Yeah, so that that is funny you say that because a lot of I’ll be honest with you, Adam, a lot of my stuff is out of ignorance. Right? So. So, you know, like I said, we had 41 people show up for one class one night, and our physical therapy clinic was, was really busted now the same. So I remember telling my wife, I said, You know what, we’ve got to do something, it’s time to do something. We were renting the space for the physical therapy clinic, and we were just meeting at the park for the gym stuff. And I said, You know what, I think we need to build something, let’s buy some land. And let’s build something. And I said, you know, I’ve seen some signs on the way into the clinic. I want to call them tomorrow. So Adam, I get get to work and as lunchtime and I’m about to get in my truck to go Look at the signs and I see this lady from the bank walking over. And I know she’s coming to talk to me, I was like, ah, and I know she’s gonna talk and I love her, you know, she’s super nice. But man, I really want to look at these land this land, right? And she comes up to me says, Hey, I see what you guys are doing in the community. And I just want to let you know, my husband and I have some land. And we’ve kind of just like to give it to you for a very small fee. And I, you know, we want to give it to somebody who’s gonna make an impact in the community, and, you know, I just want to listen about it. And I was like, Okay, well, I mean, that’s cool. You know, it’s probably not gonna be very good land, but I’ll go look at it. I go look at this, and it is prime location for this community. Right. And, as I’m spot on, right, so we do that and we ended up building a 1600 Square, 6800 square foot building that had our physical therapy clinic and actually today in there, in this, this was kind of, you know, you think about up until this point we were charging people $5 a class, right? Yeah. Well, now we’re moving into a building that we’re building. And we’re about to go up to $75 per month. Okay? So we’re asking people to make a commitment now, you know, $5 per class, you’re not really committed too much, right? I’m a contract class here, there. But now I’m committed and most gyms in that area are going, you know, 30 $35 per month, but we’re kind of doing CrossFit. Right.

Adam G. Force 24:37

Yeah.

Cory Lee 24:38

Yeah. So that’s a commitment. And, you know, it’s kind of just a leap of faith and, you know, kind of personal faith and I really felt like it was it was God ordained, I guess you would say and it you know, it was awesome. Right, but a lot of it was acting out of ignorance. I’ll be honest with you. He just gone for it. Yeah, just going for I remember sitting down with him. The contractor and tell him everything I wanted to have. I said I want to have 20 foot ceilings, you know, in the CrossFit gym, I want to be this big and he kind of dropped his pin and looked at me said you want this here? How’s that? Yeah. And I remember through this whole process talking to the bank and the bank is like, you know, they were kind of surprised that the loan went through and the contractor surprised the city approved. I was like, What are you talking about? Surprise, like, why are you surprised and you know, I can see it in my mind I see it anyway. But yeah, so…

Adam G. Force 25:36

Aw, man that’s pretty awesome dude, because you know, you’re not you’re you were not being bound by you know, I guess stigmas of like thoughts of what should be like this contractor had right he’s like this here because he just is you know, his preconceived notions. Yeah, that’s pretty cool. So you talk about having leaning into ignorance. Well, I guess there’s there is a benefit sometimes when ignorance can kind of lead you to just do what you think you got to do and kind of break new boundaries.

Cory Lee 26:09

Yeah, and, and along with that, you know, my wife, she is a very wise woman, too. And, you know, she balances out some of that. And she’s almost my measuring stick to if it’s a good idea, and if we get her blessing, she’s thought through it and prayed through it as well. And it’s Let’s go, Ryan. And if we’re both on land, and we’re all in, and I think that’s a lesson as well is, you know, once we made that decision, we were committed to the decision. And there are other decisions in the past that I’ve made where I was not fully committed, and working with entrepreneurs as well. I see them say, Well, I’m gonna try this but kind of in the back of my mind, if this doesn’t work out, I can go back to my job or I can go back and try this and I’ve found that that does not always work. Because when you make the commitment up front, that you’re all in, you have to mentally make the commitment up front, that then you’ll do everything that’s necessary to bring that that business or that goal into actual reality, you know?

Adam G. Force 27:15

Yeah, hundred percent. You know, we always say to, you know, people in our community that if you’re not willing, if you’re waiting to go all in for your business to be successful, like if you’re waiting to be successful to go all in on your business, you’re gonna be waiting for a very long time.

Cory Lee 27:30

Yeah, yeah.

Adam G. Force 27:33

People say that all the time. They’re like, Well, when I get more sales, when I am more successful, I do this, then I will invest in myself, then I’ll invest more in my idea. Hey, you know what I mean? It’s backwards chicken in the egg kinda.

Cory Lee 27:45

That’s wrong. That’s right. I know. We’re not transitioned out of the, the therapy in the gym stuff and doing kind of what I do now with the leadership training, those kind of things. Or remember early on, you know, in the back of my mind, I was doing the same exact thing as well. You know, more give this a try. But if if it doesn’t work out, I can always go back. You know, I can find a job as a physical therapy assistant, I could open up another PT clinic, but I’ll give it a try. And I had indeed.com pulled up on my phone a lot, right. And I realized that I wasn’t fully committed to the jury. And I had, you know, I had bet, you know, burn the ship to the nba.com. Right, I had to throw that out. And when I did when I made that commitment, something kind of magical happened. I don’t know what it was, but the business started to grow itself, right. And making that commitment up front is key for us.

Adam G. Force 28:38

Yeah, it’s tough when you got your mind in multiple places, trying to be good at multiple things, right. So it’s like, if you can find the focus, you got it, you only have so much time and energy, so you got to put it all in there and try to make it happen. Now. Some people need to make money on the side here and there, but the more the more of that percentage of the pie of your time and energy you can put towards your Your primary focus the better.

Cory Lee 29:02

Yes, sir. That’s right.

Adam G. Force 29:03

Yeah. Now tell me a little bit about like, what’s going on today. So I think you were in business for five years, but you sold everything. How much did you sell it for? And what are you working on? Exactly. Now? How are you helping entrepreneurs?

Cory Lee 29:15

Yeah, so I’m gonna say we had the physical therapy clinic. And in that five year period of time, we sold off the gyms kind of individually. Okay. We sold the physical therapy clinic and we sold it for over a million dollars. Yep. And one thing that I noticed, Adam, that this was a key lesson for me was that I knew I had made a mistake, right? And the mistake that I had made was a leadership mistake. Our business was growing. We were doing great. But I had developed a bunch of followers, right, people who went above and beyond, we talked about five levels of leadership. Well, I hadn’t developed any leaders who could step in once I stepped out When that happened, the business kind of went down. Right? This kind of back is back up now. But But that was a mistake that I made I you know, one of the things that we talked about is, as leaders, the power isn’t within us the power is in empowering other people. And I did a poor job of that. But that was a lesson for me. So we later on sold the two physical arms or the two gems, the 24 hour gym and the CrossFit gym, to a friend of mine, and was a little bit more intentional about that. So he started out actually as a member, and he has some great leadership qualities, some great leadership traits. So kind of in that he became one of our coaches. And then over time, he continued to develop and he became our head coach. So then he kind of took on more, more roles and responsibilities, and when it came time to sail, he was the obvious choice to sell it because he was the leader of that group. And now you He’s taken it on to, you know, even better than what we had it but, but that was a lesson for me that, you know, to develop other people to see the talent and potential within other people and extract that talent and potential and put them in the positions to succeed and that’s how your business grows. That’s how it actually multiplies is by developing leaders within your business. So,

Adam G. Force 31:24

Yeah, no, that makes that makes a lot of sense. And you know, you guys got to that point. I’m curious were like, Did you always have the exit strategy in mind? Like within five years, we want to sell this. Was that always the plan? No, not one bit.

Cory Lee 31:41

It wasn’t right. It never was. Right. So again, I am a person of faith and, man, I loved it right. I love the business. I loved every aspect of it. I love the business side, the marketing side, the the leading and all that stuff, right. And I remember, you know, God told me I said, hey, you’ve got you’ve got this out of the realm priority order. And I tried to negotiate with God. Right? Well, hold on, you know, I’ll put it back in its place. Right? And, you know, it’s like, you know, you gotta you gotta let it go. And the best decision we’ve ever made right to do that, because it’s allowed us. I have grown personally, and professionally, I would say, almost need to telescope to see how far I’ve come since then. Right. And and I don’t think I would be from the personal growth standpoint where I am today, if we hadn’t made that decision. And one of the things that really helped make that decision as well as you know, I loved it. But we had small kids too. In that five year period of time we had the four gyms and two PT clinics. We also had three kids during that five year period. And I can remember one night I had been at the gym early in the morning at five then I was at a physical therapy clinic all day and I was about to leave again is about Four o’clock in the afternoon to go coach all the CrossFit classes that night. And I was telling her older son Good night, and that I would see him in the morning. And this is at four o’clock in the afternoon, right? And he says that he, you go into your house. And it hit me that I had been spending way too much time away from our family. And that had gotten out of the wrong priority order. Right. So it was never intentionally planned that way. But But also, I’ve realized in this growth to some of my gifts and talents or to encourage and motivate other people, but also to get things going to get things off the ground and get people excited about something and find someone else to hand that off off to and we could probably do a whole podcast on on that as well. But that’s been a real growth that has helped me to see some of my where my giftedness lies.

Adam G. Force 33:54

Yeah, I mean, that’s awesome. And now you’re doing some speaking Are you mentoring anybody? What’s going I like that stuff.

Cory Lee 34:01

Yeah, so I do speaking and do one on one coaching. I also do some leadership training where go into businesses and work with their leadership teams and call it developing a leadership culture. But one of the things we’re really excited about and passionate about right now is helping male entrepreneurs kind of get their businesses up and going. And really, if they’ve been going for a little bit how to get it to the next level, one of the things we found is, again, had zero business knowledge or business experience, but we had a ton of enthusiasm, right? And we realized if our business is going to grow that like we’ve talked about, and as you probably know, Adam to is that we’ve got the grown right as the leader, we’ve got to grow. So we read the books, we went to the courses, the seminars, the webinars, all those kind of things, but we had people who can mentor us from a distance through their courses and material but I didn’t have that individual or that group of other guys that I could go to to share some ideas with and say, Hey, what do you think about this who could up level my idea who can also relate to what I was going through in business, or even served as guardrails as I wanted to grow that business, but not at the expense of my faith, my family and my fitness. So, as entrepreneurs, we created that right. So we’ve created a mastermind group specifically for male entrepreneurs. And, man, that’s been fun. That’s been exciting. And I love seeing what’s happening with their men that are in that group. And I know you have a community as well, I would just want to encourage anybody that’s listening to really fully take advantage of the group that Adam is offering there, because there’s some power in community there.

Adam G. Force 35:37

It’s true. I mean, I like that you started the mastermind, and you can support people that way, because you’re right. I mean, the idea of surrounding herself and getting that real time feedback, asking questions, getting coaching, like, I can just imagine in my mind right now a car that’s racing down the highway and when you mentioned the guardrails, it’s like, they keep you from going off in a million different directions off the road. You know, he You get to this point of no return, because we have so many ideas and decisions that it’s so easy to go off on a tangent. And so you know, a year goes by and it’s like, oh my god, like what have I’ve even been doing?

Cory Lee 36:12

Exactly right.

Adam G. Force 36:13

Yeah. Happens all the time. All the time. Yes, sir. Good stuff. Yeah, it is good stuff. I mean, that’s the challenge of entrepreneurship. And, you know, every great entrepreneur has a mentor or coach or community. It’s just inevitable. And I hate like when people talk about being a self made entrepreneur, because there’s no such thing. There is no self made entrepreneur, everybody has what they have because of the help of other people. That’s right. Listen, record. I really appreciate you sharing your story and your insights and some really great key lessons. These are all applicable. These types of lessons, whether you’re online or offline business, just the idea of testing taking these steps and you know, hiring at the right time, you can definitely hire too early. So a lot of people will say you got to delegate the things that You’re not an expert in. And Cory, I agree with that too. But I want to make a clear point for people that timing is important there too. Because, you know, if you’re starting a business and you don’t know who your audience is, you don’t know how to sell to them. You don’t have to share your story and connect and get people on board. Hiring that out is going to be a challenge, right? Because you’re just kind of like saying, Here, create that strategy for me take take something I love, and you figure it out for me. And I feel like you went through those early stages. And then when you were ready to grow and really get the gyms you hired out to take the next steps, but you kind of had the strategy in place, right?

Cory Lee 37:35

Yeah, yes. 100% I’m glad you clarified that because you definitely can and, and I found that people, you know, when you hire team members, people fail as being a team members when they don’t get proper training, or when they don’t know what winning looks like. And then the other one is the attitude which hopefully you’ll catch that in the interview process, but they fail when there’s not proper training. And if you haven’t figured out how to do so, So with those things to properly train them, you know, then that’s that sets them up for failure and it sets your business up for failure as well. And, and you know, and when they don’t know what winning looks like, that was a another big lesson for me is Hey, can you do this? Right? But but not telling them what winning looks like so

Adam G. Force 38:18

yeah, exactly, exactly. No, it’s just it’s one of these little things that gets kind of like missed. So I want to just kind of point that out. It was important. Thank you so much. I really appreciate we’re at the end of our time here. I think it was a really great conversation. I’m excited to hear more about how you guys continue to make progress. How can people just you know learn more about your mentorship and everything that you got going on?

Cory Lee 38:41

Yeah, I don’t appreciate man. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed it. And I hope this has added value to your listener. So Adam, I’m a I’m a I’m a cookies on the bottom shelf kind of guy, right? You got to keep it simple. So I’ve created a page for your listeners specific to your listeners. I got them two free gifts to write but but on their own this page I’m going to give to you it has, you know some information about our legacy builders mastermind group. And you know, it’s got the icons on how you can follow us on social media too. But I’ve got two free gifts one is a, a personal assessment where you can kind of ask yourself these questions, see how balanced you are in life. But add on the other one is a spousal survey, right? So you get this and you hand it to your spouse and they answer questions from their perspective about you. And and, you know, it sounds tough, but I promise you, it opens up great communication if you’re going to have a great relationship with your spouse, and I believe this world needs a mommy and daddy who are united, right? And anyway, anyway, it opens up great communication. So those can be found at www Cory Lee leadership.com slash Change Creator and that’s just for you and your listeners there, Adam. I appreciate you guys.

Adam G. Force 39:56

Awesome. I appreciate that. Cory that’s pretty cool, man. So guys, You could check that out we’ll put it when we get this published formally on the website. We’ll have that there for everybody to grab. And I’ll make mention of it in the intro and all that stuff. So, Corey, Thanks again so much for your time appreciate it man and let’s stay in touch. Awesome man. Um, I thoroughly enjoyed it man. Thanks for tuning into the Change Creator podcast. Visit us at Change creator.com forward slash go big to get access to free downloads and other great resources that will drive your business forward.

Listen to our exclusive interview with Gino Wickman:

Subscribe to this show on Spotify  |  iTunes  |  Stitcher  |  Soundcloud

How do we know if we really have what it takes to succeed as an entrepreneur? Can anyone do it? In this interview, we talk with entrepreneur and author of the legendary book Traction, Gino Wickman, to find out who should take the leap!

An entrepreneur since the age of 21, Gino has had an obsession for learning what makes businesses and entrepreneurs thrive. At 25 he took over the family business, which was deeply in debt and in need of help. After turning the company around and running it for seven years, he and his partners successfully sold the company. Gino then set out to help entrepreneurs and leaders get what they want from their businesses. Based on his years of real-world experience, he created the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS), a practical method for helping companies achieve greatness. He has personally delivered more than 1,900 full-day sessions for more than 135 companies, helping them implement EOS. He is also the author of the award-winning, best-selling book Traction: Get a Grip on Your Business, as well as Get a Grip, Rocket Fuel, How to Be a Great Boss and What the Heck is EOS?. Gino is the founder of EOS Worldwide, an organization that helps thousands of businesses implement EOS with the aid of an international team of over 350 professional and certified EOS Implementers and online support. There are almost 100,000 companies using the EOS tools Worldwide. Gino is now devoting time and energy toward helping entrepreneurs-in-the-making get a huge jump-start on taking their entrepreneurial leap, which is why he created Entrepreneurial Leap.

Learn more about Gino and his work at >  https://www.e-leap.com/

We also recommend:

• Shane Foss: Disrupting the Healthcare Industry To Help Underserved People
• Adam & Amy: How to Effectively Set Up Systems for Your Business Remotely
• 8 Ways To Use Your CRM To Boost Your Influencer Marketing

Transcription of Interview

(Transcribed by Otter.ai, there may be errors)

Adam G. Force 00:03

Welcome to the Change Creator podcast where entrepreneurs come to learn how to live their truth, get rich and make a massive difference in the world. I’m your host Adam forest co founder, Change Creator and co creator of the captivate method. Each week we talk to experts about leadership, digital marketing and sales strategies that you can implement in your business and like to go big visit us at Change Creator comm forward slash growbig to grab awesome resources that will help drive your business forward. What’s up what’s up everybody? This is Adam here. Welcome back to the show. If you missed the last episode, we had the one and only Bob Berry. He is a user experience master working with some of the most established companies around the world. User Experience is so important this is how people interact with your business and your products and how to actually get the most out of it. This translates to sales. This is a call that you don’t want to miss. I would jump in there and check that out. Again, that is with Bob Berry. It’s called mastering user experience to grow your biz. Today we have a legend on our hands. So Bob, not Bob Berry, who I just spoke about No, we’re talking about Gino wickman. So he started as an entrepreneur at the age of 21. And I learned about Gino because I read his book, which is a best selling book that most every entrepreneur I think should should read and it’s called traction Get a grip on your business is all about getting traction. So, you know, as early stage entrepreneurs, or anybody honestly, there’s just great perspective and ideas about getting that traction that we’re all looking for. Now Gino, he created what we call EOS, the entrepreneurial operating system. And this is a solution that helps companies achieve greatness, right. So he’s actually delivered the strategies methodology to over 1900 through over 1900 full day sessions right to over 135 companies and now he is the founder of EOS worldwide, which is an organization that’s helping thousands of businesses implement the same strategies. And it has a team of over 350 professionals who are certified in that methodology. And there’s almost, I guess, 100,000 companies using the tools, the EOS tools around the world. So he’s devoted all his time and energy towards helping entrepreneurs make a big difference in jumpstart their businesses. And he created this book called entrepreneurial leap. This is his next big thing. And we’re going to talk about what that’s all about today and why it’s important and really pick his brain on some of the strategies based on all these years of experience and working with all these companies and implementing all these, this methodology that he has called Eos. Alright guys, let’s dive into this conversation with Gino.

Gino Wickman 02:44

Okay, show me the heat.

Adam G. Force 02:48

Hey Gino, welcome to the Change Creator podcast show. How’s everything going, man?

Gino Wickman 02:53

It is going great. Happy to be with you Adam.

Adam G. Force 02:56

Yeah, appreciate appreciate you taking the time. I know you’re busy guy and You know, I did. I’m one of the avid readers of that book traction that you have. And I’m excited about your new book, the entrepreneurial leap, I think this could be really a good one for our listeners to dig into. So thanks for being here to talk about it and kind of sharing some of those insights and stuff like that. If you could just share maybe a little bit of background like, just let people give that give you that bird’s eye view of your background for those that don’t know, traction and EOS like really, in a nutshell, and then how you got to transition into this new book.

Gino Wickman 03:32

Yeah, happy to so the quick entrepreneurial journey is that I’ve been an entrepreneur since 2001, took over a family business at 25, did a big turn around, grew it, sold it and then set off to pursue what I really discovered is my calling and that’s helping entrepreneurs and so I created a system called Eos. I’ve written five books around it traction being the kind of epicenter of all the books that explains Eos. Those books have sold over a million copies. We have over 100,000 companies running on that system using that system. And I built an organization with my partner Don tinny called EOS worldwide that now has 375 EOS implementers. All over the world, helping companies with that system sold that business two years ago, still on 12 and a half percent still the EOS guy still on the books, still doing talks, still have clients, all that good stuff. But taking us to where we are in for this podcast. It was about 12 years ago when I was 40 years old. And I said when I turned 50, I’m going to shift my energy. And I’m going to go to the front end of the entrepreneurial journey, and I’m going to help entrepreneurs in the making, get a huge jump on taking their entrepreneurial leap. And so after almost three decades of helping entrepreneurs, you know, I feel like I’ve dialed in the genetic code in and what this book is all about entrepreneurial leap is doing exactly that what I’m actually doing is teaching and helping my 18 year old self and so there’s an old saying That says we teach what we needed the most. And I’m basically teaching my 18 year old self. Because if I knew what I put in this book and what I’m teaching the world now, when I was 18, I would have literally had an 11 year jumpstart, because it was around age 29, that I really realized that I was an entrepreneur, and then capitalized on that. So that’s the fastest version of the story.

Adam G. Force 05:23

I love it. Thank you. And I’m curious, just that last part, what what made you realize that you were an entrepreneur when you’re 29, what happened?

Gino Wickman 05:33

It was an intersection of a whole bunch of data points. And so I had done the family turnaround. I was getting a little bored with that, because that was running and growing it. I was in a program called the Strategic Coach with Dan Sullivan. I was in an organization called ye oh now known as EO the entrepreneurs organization. And, and it was all of those intersecting points being surrounded by entrepreneurs, and I really realize, you know that there was a light bulb moment that just, you know, helped me see that I am a wild and crazy entrepreneur. And, and then I also really realized my calling, which is this gift that I have for helping entrepreneurs. And so I took an entrepreneurial leap, we sold the business, I then took an entrepreneurial leap and built a business around what I really realized that I was here to do. Hmm.

Adam G. Force 06:25

It’s interesting, cuz I noticed in you know, the early part of your new book, he talks about how you either are or you are not born with it and saying entrepreneurship is nature, not nurture. And I kind of want to just talk about that a little bit, because I’ve had, I’ve had mixed perspectives around that meaning Some people say everyone’s an entrepreneur, and you’re saying something a little different. So I would love to hear your perspective on that.

Gino Wickman 06:52

Yeah, for sure. And it’s a great debate. So I really urge you to, you know, voice your strong opinions, because we may not agree and I think that’s the best thing we can do for your audience is for them to hear the contrast, of course, and I’m really excited about your audience because you know, you and I were talking to, you know, entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs in the makings, and so they’ll totally get this. And they’ll form their own opinion. But you know, very directly very strongly. I believe a true entrepreneur has six essential traits. And we can talk about those if you want to get into that next but but I believe they have six essential traits. And this is 30 years of history working with thousands of entrepreneurs. And not only that, I believe you are born with them. I don’t believe these traits can be taught you can’t teach a trait you can teach skills, but I believe you’re born with them. And so it’s truly nature over nurture. And so assuming all that is true, I want to I’d love to hear your response to that. But I want to create a context for your audience because this will really help them see in their mind, exactly what we’re talking about. Because if you picture an arc, I teach something called the entre General range. And what the entrepreneurial ranges is, this is where all self employed people reside. This is where all people that own their own business reside in. So if you picture the far right side of the range, picture the words true entrepreneur, and if you picture the far left side of the range picture, self employed people. And so on the right side, true entrepreneurs, the far right side are the greatest entrepreneurs of all time, Henry Ford, Walt Disney, Steve Jobs, Oprah Winfrey, Sara Blakely, on the far left side, are all of the one person shows people with a side hustle consultants, things like that. And so with every self employed person, everyone with a business falls somewhere on that spectrum on that range. And when I say true entrepreneur, the people with these six essential traits, I’m talking about the people on the right half of the rain, the people that go out and build organizations with people and so you know, everyone Listening is somewhere on that range if they’re all self employed entrepreneurs. And then the last little point is that I really feel like I’m doing a service to the world because right now everyone wants to be an entrepreneur. Just like in the 70s. Everyone wanted to be a rock star. And with all due love and respect, not everyone was cut out to be a rock star. And not everyone is cut out to be an entrepreneur. And listen, it’s not all it’s cracked up to be true entrepreneurs are borderline crazy in some really freakin hard and get your ass kicked on a daily basis. And it’s not, you know, all it’s cracked up to be. So there’s my jumping off point for you.

Adam G. Force 09:39

Yeah, I love it. I mean, no, I totally get where you’re coming from. And maybe for some people, it would start with defining exactly what we mean by entrepreneur, right? Because I think some people might have different definitions of that as well. And you know, you’re talking about some of the greats and the largest organizations in the world and then the self employed person Who is, you know, making a living on their own, but they’re not building large teams at scale. So I like the idea of this range. And I think you know, for me, I guess in my perspective, you know, I had a conversation with Muhammad Yunus. I don’t know if you know who he is, he’s like, I see that. Okay, so he’s a Nobel Peace Prize winner in the space of social entrepreneurship. And he started Grameen Bank and all this stuff. And I had a conversation with him and he believed that you know, everybody’s an entrepreneur. And I think it comes down to these definitions and how we’re looking at it. And when you talk about some of these essential traits, you know, being a risk taker a problem solver. I start to wonder well, what how did somebody grow up? What did they learn and it does this become a a effect of human behavior and conditioning? To make them the kind of person they are right so they’re not skills but they are? subject subconscious behaviors, right. So can those things be changed? If somebody actually wants to change it, right?

Gino Wickman 11:03

Yeah, love it. And so like, I’ll give you another couple thoughts and then indirectly answer your question because, you know, I know a lot of your audience out there, you know, they consider themselves entrepreneurs, but they’re one person shows and the first point I want to make is that is absolutely admirable, respectable, you’re still taking a risk. And I just consider you to be a business owner, I consider you to be self employed in that case. And so to hold that thought for a minute, I always use a just a really kind of raw example. And that is, you know, somebody with handy skills can become a handyman or a handy woman charge 60 bucks an hour, make 100 grand a year and go do what they love. And if they’re good at it, and they do a good job, they’ll get referred and they will be busy for the next 25 years of their life making 100 grand a year and that is so admirable, and then you and I could give 1000 examples Have a business one person could go into and do and obviously, your audience has a lot of that. The point I’m making is, I just don’t consider that to be a true entrepreneur. And you’re right. It’s definitional. This is just my definition. So yeah, don’t get don’t get pissed off at me. I’m talking to your audience. But, but that’s just my definition. The point I’m making now is someone with these six essential traits, they can’t help themselves. But to turn that into a business. It turned that into an organization, grow it and start bringing on people and so that handyman that has the six essential traits is going to spend a year doing that work and then realize, holy cow, if I hire someone else, you know, I can elevate myself and someone else and someone else and all the sudden they’ve got a construction company, the person that cuts a lawn cuts 20 lawns, 30 lawns realizes, wow, I hire somebody to cut those 30 lawns and go cut 30 more. They can’t help themselves but to build an organization This is a cautionary tale because so many people I’ve talked to, you have people in your audience right now, they just need to remain a one person show and make their hundred 200 300 400 grand a year and that is admirable. And there’s actually there’s a piece that will come over them once they realize they probably don’t have all of these traits. But for the ones that do, the idea is now that you know this after reading the first part of the book, which I call confirm, now you clearly know what you are. And I’m going to show you a path in a way that’s going to make your journey much more seamless. you’ll avoid half the mistakes you’re about to make, I can help you get there faster. And I I’m just trying to save the person that goes out and tries to build an organization and they go through 10 years of hell and fail because they really didn’t have what it takes to become a true entrepreneur and be on the far right side of that entrepreneurial range. We talked about God

Adam G. Force 13:56

Yeah, I see where you’re going with it. And it is in that that that realm of growing an organization having, you know, 100 people on your team, I guess, and you’re far more. Right.

Gino Wickman 14:09

Exactly. And then to that same point, having 100 employees is not all it’s cracked up to be, you know, yes, worldwide is over 400 people in that organization. And it is daunting, it’s complex. It requires, you know, a whole different set of skills. And then it prompts another thought, and that is just using me as an example, when I sold the family business, took my entrepreneurial leap. I was actually that one person show for the first five years I was out there as a coach working with entrepreneurs, but again, I couldn’t help myself, but to turn it into an organization again, that now has over 400 people in it. I just couldn’t stop myself and it was a pretty damn good, peaceful life, those five years in the work I was doing, but I was just compelled to keep growing and growing and driving and driving. So anyway,

Adam G. Force 15:00

Yeah, no, I mean, I think that all makes sense. And it sounds like you know, for a lot of people, you have to really be honest with yourself and what you want, right? So, you know, some do you want to have 400 employees and all the complexities and everything that comes with it, right? Because there comes a different responsibility and different pressures and stresses and things like that. And if you have a team of one to five people, but you’re making a million dollars a year, that’s a very different dynamic as well. So I guess it comes down to what somebody really wants out of their life.

Gino Wickman 15:32

Yeah. And that you know, and so you just perfectly teed up part two of the book because once you finish with part one, there’s an assessment you take, you ultimately get a score. That assessment is available on the website, free and downloadable E dash leap calm but once you confirm that you have the six essential traits, and you’re a true entrepreneur. The next part of the book is called glimpse and then I spent the next third of the book showing that potential entrepreneur a glimpse of what as possible in the world for an entrepreneur and more importantly, what all the options are. And so to your exact point, I created this tool called my biz match. And what I’m teaching in this part and leading to this tool is to help that entrepreneur out there listening to understand all of your options, because there are so many more options to being an entrepreneur than just a billion dollar tech, unicorn entrepreneur. I mean that that’s one in a million, and it’s not for everyone. And so what I teach and talk about are all of the industries available out there. And then I talk about the types of companies because there’s three factors when it comes to type of company. It’s Are you a product service or a business service? Are you a product business or a service business? Are you b2b or b2c? And are you high price, low volume, low price, high volume, when you start to weigh all of those factors, I believe every entrepreneur is drawn to something and then the third thing you get into is size. Just like what you’re talking about there, because, again, 10,000 employees is not for every entrepreneur, there is no shame in having a $3 million heating and cooling company throwing off a 20% profit with 40 people. In other words there that is respectable, admirable. And so there’s no shame in that. And so with my biz match, you literally just click on a bunch of buttons, answer some questions, and out pops the perfect business for you. And so we’re all built. They’re our product people in this world. They’re our service people in this world, and they rarely meet. And so it’s just trying to learn and understand what you’re drawn to. That’s going to greatly increase your odds of success and keep you doing something you’re totally passionate about.

Adam G. Force 17:42

I love that. Now that sounds pretty cool. And and I think it’s such an important part of the process that a lot of people skip is, you know, simply becoming clear about what you want and what’s going to make sense for you. Because, you know, the way we’ve always looked at it too is if you write down your in your notes or you take a process like yours, Going through here and you see, well, here’s what I want. You may not know what that looks like, or the person that you actually need to become to get there, right? So I always looked at it as a way to start getting clear on something. And if you have a book like this, and you’ve been down this road, then like, it’s really hard for an entrepreneur to say, Well, I do have that drive and vision and I want to have, you know, 400 employees also, but they don’t know what that business looks like. And it’s really hard to create something when you don’t know what it looks like.

Gino Wickman 18:32

Yeah, and it’s exactly what I do and why I wrote this second part of the book is to create that glimpse, because in my mind, you know, I picture this word entrepreneurship, and that potential entrepreneur listening as this big block of marble and and in there is the sculpture in there is that person so I always I describe it as helping them to see the light and then see their light and so the light is understated. This whole context of being an entrepreneur, their light is then seeing where they fit in that entrepreneurial world. And so I’m quite proud of how powerful it is. Because by the end of glimpse, you had this vivid picture of what the perfect business is for you what the life looks like both Heaven and Hell, how to avoid the eight mistakes that every entrepreneur makes when they take their leap. And I also give countless stories of entrepreneurs who were right where you are, and and what they did to grow to what they grew to. And then from there, we go to the third part of the book, which is path and then I show a clear path for how to greatly increase your odds and eliminate half the mistakes you still will make the other half it’s part of the journey and they’re unavoidable. Hmm,

Adam G. Force 19:49

interesting. So let’s touch a little bit on the three parts in a little more detail. So we did kind of cover off on the range concept and things like that. Let’s just quickly If you don’t mind touch on the some of the essential traits and and why they’re important.

Gino Wickman 20:05

Yeah, you bet. And so at a very high level, I’ll give you all six. It’s visionary, passionate, problem solver, driven, risk taker, and responsible. And so those are the six, you know, in terms of why they’re important. They’re kind of self explanatory, but I can do a really quick, you know, one or two minute riff that paints a vivid color of all six if you’d like me to, but at a high level, those are the six and they’re all vital. And so I get asked, Well, what if you don’t have one or two? Well, here’s the answer. If you don’t have one or two, you’re probably not a true entrepreneur. And it’s a great awareness, but they’re all vital. Mm hmm.

Adam G. Force 20:47

Interesting. And I like the responsible one because you see a lot of leaders today that blame everyone but themselves so to see a leader who can blame no one and you know, really Look in the mirror and and be that kind of a leader I think is really important in the kind of leadership it takes to build these big companies, right?

Gino Wickman 21:08

Yeah, here, here. And I’ll do a little 32nd riff on that one, because that’s one of my favorites. So people are always shocked when they’re hearing this list, and I get through the first five. And those all make sense. And all of a sudden they hear response, I’m gonna go, Whoa, how is that on the list? It is so vital. And, and so here’s how I know that you’re born with it. Here’s how I know that it’s nature over nurture. And that is, you can put the entire world in one of two categories. There are people that take responsibility when something bad happens. And there are people that blame everyone else. When something happens, they take no responsibility. And the reality of it is you will have a household with four kids, four siblings in the same household and as you’re listening out there, you’re putting all the people in your life and these two categories because it’s so obvious, but if you think about a family with four siblings, you literally will put those siblings in one of two play one of those two buckets? Because how on earth is it possible that those four kids because you out there listening Think of your brothers and your sisters, it’s very obvious how could they grew up in the same household by the same parents same raising same teaching same everything. And yet, half of them end up taking responsibility half don’t you’re born with it its nature over nurture. And responsible means this it means that you blame no one. It means that when something goes wrong, you default to looking in the mirror. You don’t look at who to point to. You take total responsibility for the outcome. You don’t believe in entitlement. And I had a friend that said it so well in a sentence that he said somebody who’s truly responsible when they’re building gets hit by a meteor, they believe it’s their fault. In other words, you chose the building, you built the building you chose to be there and so that’s the essence of responsible and I would also say you know, both are a psychology disorder, there are people that take too much responsibility. People don’t take enough. Both are psychological disorders. I’m not saying it’s healthy for those of us that take responsibility for everything because we carry such a burden. All I’m saying is, it is a trait of a true entrepreneur. And if you don’t have it, you’re just not going to be a successful entrepreneur.

Adam G. Force 23:20

Yeah, I love that. That’s, that’s one of my favorites on the list there too. And I think let’s just jump over to a glimpse, he talked about some of the critical mistakes. I think people listening would like to hear, you know, what are some of these critical mistakes that you’ve come across? Working with a lot of different clients and all the different experiences that you’ve had that really stand out here that might be interesting to talk about?

Gino Wickman 23:42

Yeah, I would love to. And so contextually the point here as I go into these eight is, I paint a vivid picture for that potential entrepreneur of what a day in the life of an entrepreneur looks like. And so you shoot out 10 years from now and picture one of these two scenarios. And so I paint both the dream And the nightmare. And the point and that is I’m showing them how to live the dream. I’m also showing them how they create their own nightmare. And there are eight mistakes that almost every entrepreneur makes when they take their entrepreneurial leap that put them in the nightmare. And so I’m going to go through each of them very quickly. And I would love it you know, you know your audience better than I do. If you’ll just kind of pick the top two to you that you think they would like we can drill down on that, but here are the eight very quickly, number one, not having a vision. Number two, hiring the wrong people. Number three, not spending time with your people. Number four, not knowing who your customer is. Number five, not charging enough. Number six, not staying true to your core. Number seven, not knowing your numbers. And number eight not crystallizing roles and responsibilities.

Adam G. Force 24:50

Yeah, it’s great list. There’s two that I can pull out for our listeners. And I think the two would be actually there’s three but I’m going to call So let’s do not knowing who your customer is, and not knowing your numbers, I think those are two major mistakes that whether they realize it or not, those are the mistakes that are happening.

Gino Wickman 25:10

You’re here. And so the classic mistake here is and for what this is worth, you know, in everything that I write, there’s not one ounce of theory, this comes from the real world. This comes from my three decades. And so this is based on the hundreds, if not thousands, of clients that have come to me and us. And these are the issues they’re facing with us, when they’re at 10 to 250 employees, and these are the mistakes they made. And we’re basically fixing all of those mistakes. And so not knowing who your customer is. The issue there is, is you’re taking this buckshot approach to the world, you know, you’re selling your wares, you’re selling your service, you’re selling your product, and you’re just kind of selling it to everyone. And it’s diluted and it’s murky. And so the idea the way that you saw that is you take a big step back and you get clear on the demographic geographic psychographic of your ideal customer. Who are they? Where are they? What are their? What are they? And to the degree you can get abundantly clear, that’s going to really focus your marketing energy, resources, dollars to greatly increase your sales because now you know who your ideal customer is. You’re speaking their language, you’re using their colors, you’re using their verbiage, and you’re attracting more customers. And so typically when that entrepreneur takes that leap, again, they’re just casting this wide net and and selling very little.

Adam G. Force 26:30

Yeah, yeah, love to hear it and keep reinforcing that for everybody.

Gino Wickman 26:34

Yeah, and then going to not knowing your numbers, that the downside of having the six essential traits almost always is true entrepreneurs, wild and crazy visionary entrepreneurs typically are not good with the numbers. I can still barely read a p&l, quite frankly. But they’re just not great with numbers. And so with that, they’re unfortunately flying blind. They’re always going with their gut. It’s chaotic, and they Not maximizing the profits, they’re not maximizing the growth. And so three simple solutions here, implement a weekly system where you’re looking at the five to 15 most important weekly activity based numbers. Number two, implement a monthly p&l look at a monthly p&l and number three, manage a monthly budget. Even if you don’t know what the heck those three things are, and you just do them by default, you will be forced to learn it in the next two months, you’ll become an expert. So implement those weekly numbers. Look at a monthly p&l manage a monthly budget, and you’ll be an expert within two months, if not a year.

Adam G. Force 27:39

Yeah, it’s so important and it’s a hard lesson that we’ve learned because I’m not somebody that I mean, I like the numbers but I’m not one that’s pulling it together and organized around it. I get like I just want to keep doing other things in the business and growing and stuff. And, you know, I’ve learned the hard way that what you don’t measure doesn’t grow. So keeping an eye on Those things and the most important things is going to be key to growth. Otherwise, you’re just kind of like, you know, floundering a bit

Gino Wickman 28:07

here here and I, you know, one last little point on so I call it a scorecard five to 15 numbers. I learned it from my business mentor when I was 25 years old. He taught me the concept of scorecard. I ran my first business on 14 weekly numbers, ran my second business on 14 weekly numbers. And what it does for you is it literally helps you predict the future because you what you do is you’re looking at those weekly numbers, you want to look at 13 weeks at a glance. So you’re able to see patterns and trends and you can literally predict outcomes three months from now, if you’ll work from a weekly scorecard. So I urge each and every one of your listeners listeners that implement that this week.

Adam G. Force 28:43

Yeah, absolutely. Really good advice. I love that. And why don’t we wrap up on one last part here in the path because I think this is important for people. I mean, everybody in our audience is acting based on their passion, they want to do something meaningful. So what I want to touch on here as you talk about the importance of having a mentor, you know, we have our program, the captivate method where we put storytelling at the heart of their marketing. It’s very authentic, we get consistent sales. And so this is like a group coaching experience. And, you know, a lot of times I feel like people will say, you know, I’m not ready for this or that, and they have this fear that holds them back, right, or perfectionism and things like that. So I would love to hear your thoughts on why it’s so important to have a mentor.

Gino Wickman 29:25

Yeah, that’s a great question. And I’ll share a couple things there. First is I’m going to talk through the pure mentor relationship and the process for finding one and then I’ll go to the second point, but the idea here is for you to find someone out there who is where you want to be. And, and rule of thumb, you’re going to need five to 10 names because you’re going to hear a lot of nose but you reach out to those people and meet with them for an hour. Ask them what you’re looking for. They share their stories and their insights. You share your story and at the end of that if it feels right, you decide to move forward. You agree on a structure. And so I met with my business mentor every month, hour and a half for literally five years. And he taught me so much. And so that’s the mentoring relationship and about 60% of all of the entrepreneurs that I’ve worked with my research, the ones I’ve talked to have had a mentor. And so the point here is if you don’t have a mentor, it’s not a death sentence, you’re going to be fine. But having a mentor is like a speed pass, you really can jump ahead with a mentor. Yeah. Second point, however, is the world is different now. You know, when I was 25, almost 30 years ago and was I was with my business mentor mentoring the last 2030 4050 years was a one on one relationship. And and it there was no money exchanging hands while the world has changed today, with coaching and masterminds and these organizations, there’s a lot of paid mentoring going on, you know, frankly, I’m a paid mentor for my clients. Yeah. And so, so it’s a little different. Now. The reality of it is you can still very much Find a free mentor and I would urge you to do that but but through the incredible amount of education and wisdom and how easy it is to access and in the the kinds of things that you offer entrepreneurs, you know, I’ve had my paid mentor has been Dan Sullivan for 23 years, I’ve been flying to Chicago every 90 days, I pay a lot of money to be around that man because I learned so much. So I’ve had free mentors, paid mentors, you just ultimately have to find someone who’s where you want to be and attach yourself to them some way shape or form. Love it.

Adam G. Force 31:36

Alright, Gina, I really appreciate your time today. We’re gonna close out here. Let’s make sure people know where do they reach you to learn more, find the book, maybe your website, wherever you want to point them here.

Gino Wickman 31:47

You bet. So the epicenter for all things entrepreneurial leap and everything we’ve been talking about is eat, sleep calm. The book is available entrepreneurial leap is the book. It’s available through all major Retailers but you can get to it through the website again E dash leap calm and then you’re also going to find a ton of free resources. There are nine free tools all intended to help you confirm that you’re an entrepreneur in the making and take a much better successful leap. Love it.

Adam G. Force 32:17

Thank you so much for your time today Gino,

Gino Wickman 32:20

my pleasure Adam had a blast.

Adam G. Force 32:22

Thanks for tuning into the Change Creator podcast visit us at Change Creator comm forward slash go big to get access to free downloads and other great resources that will drive your business forward.