Michael Unbroken: Starting and Growing a Coaching Business That Saves Lives

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How do you know if you have a valid business or that you even could be a coach that actually helps people? We spoke to an expert, Michael Unbroken, who had no intention of being a coach but saw a ton of signs that led him in that direction.

Today, he helps people who have dealt with childhood trauma live better lives and now runs a small successful team that is continuing to grow more and more. So much so, that he even got investment from Grant Cardone. Listen in for a ton of great tips and advice that will change the game for you and your journey whether you are a coach or not.

About Michael and Unbroken – in his own words:

“I didn’t sign up to be the spokesman for survivors of child abuse. In fact, this job sucks. I mean that.

The truth is that the universe chose me for this role. I have been gifted the ability to navigate the most harsh and vicious child abuse to come out on the other side seemingly whole. I say seemingly because there will always be a part of me that was stolen. I cannot get that back. None of the rage, drugs, sex, rock n’ roll, or anger will give me that thing that was stolen.

The world is both beautiful and brutal and I have seen the best and the worst of it. I know that the abuse I suffered has given me an undeniable strength that I was only able to tap into after falling face first into complete darkness.

There is truth in understanding that Mindset is Everything. There are no shortcuts, trust me I’ve tried them all. There is hard work and on the backside of that is getting your life back.

Think Unbroken is about sharing the tools and skills I have created and leveraged over a lifetime to help other people break free of The Vortex and become the person that they know they are capable of being. If I can do it then anyone can.”

Learn more about Michael and his work at > thinkunbrokenbusiness.com/challenge

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Transcription of Interview

(Transcribed by Otter.ai, there may be errors)

Michael Unbroken 0:03
Welcome to the Change Creator podcast where entrepreneurs come to learn how to live their truth, get rich and make a massive difference in the world. I’m your host, Adam force co founder, Change Creator and co creator of the captivate method. Each week we talk to experts about leadership, digital marketing and sales strategies that you can implement in your business and like to go big visit us at Change Creator comm forward slash go big to grab awesome resources that will help drive your business forward. What’s up, everybody? Welcome back to the Change Creator podcast show This is your host, Adam force. If you missed the last episode, we released a conversation I had with Jay Shetty really relevant and powerful conversation about storytelling, storytelling is a very big part of branding. And as you know, we are all about creating powerful brands that people can fall in love with. This is such an important part of business. This is not, you know, a tactic like a webinar or a workshop, you know, I get so exhausted, hearing everybody trying to pitch the new tactic, and making a ton of money off it. Right, because people are desperate to find that, that one tactic when, in reality, it’s really the core principles behind these things that make it matter, right. And that’s what I love about branding. It’s, it’s, it’s how we actually differentiate the market. It’s how we make people feel, it’s how we build trust. This is what creates loyal customers long term success. It’s not the little tactics and how we deliver our information that’s always evolving and changing. And, you know, whatever. It’s the message. It’s the feeling, it’s the branding, these things matter the most, these are like core principles behind business and marketing. So it’s easy to overlook those things because everybody wants the immediate win. Like if I do this, then in six months, I’m gonna make X dollars, right? And that’s great. And you can start getting those immediate wins when you have the right branding set up. And then you’re setting up the, you know, you know, I don’t even like we do build the websites, but we build them as sales machines, right? How are we selling? Most people have their websites up, and they say, well, it’s just there. So I have some presence online. And that’s a huge mistake, because it’s a very valuable piece of real estate. So I don’t care if it’s just a sales funnel, it’s a website, these are web pages that are designed to build relationships with people and create sales, right? And so I don’t care if it’s a website, it’s quick funnels, or some other thing. They’re all just webpages and they all are important to the business. Alright, so we’re gonna be talking to Michael Unbroken today. Alright, so he is the founder of Think Unbroken. And so Michael has a ton of experience, and he is focused on childhood trauma, he’s built up tons of credibility in the space over time, he’s gonna explain how he started this business and how he’s, you know, built us a small team around it now and all the steps he had to take. So it’ll help you on your journey and understanding, you know, he’s taking this coaching approach, and I’m sure there’s a lot of coaches out here listening. And he’s done a lot of other work that he’s going to talk about, and how we got investment from a guy like Grant Cardone. And I think it’s such a great story we talked about towards the end of this conversation, because it’s really important to see how he put himself out there and created an opportunity and seized it. And look what happened. He now has this community of people he built around them in the Grant C ardones world, he got investment. Pretty awesome stuff. So a lot of good touch points for this conversation coming up. Okay. All right, guys. So enjoy this. And listen, we have two spots open with our brand studio. We are just closing out some incredible brands right now. And if you’re looking to get your branding done, and you want to get your your sales going online, with more lead generation, all that kind of stuff. We will help you and work very closely with you step by step. Just reach out, go to our website, you’ll see our services. This is such an important part of your business. So I hope you really are taking it seriously. If you’re not sure if it’s the right time. We have some articles there to help you just look for those articles I wrote about timing. It doesn’t make sense for you and all that stuff. Alright guys, let’s get into this conversation with Michael. Okay, show me the heat. Hey, Michael, welcome to the Change Creator podcast. How you doing today, man?

Adam, I’m so good. Brother. Thank you so much for the opportunity to come and chat with you today, man.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I think you we have a lot of common interest just from our little preliminary shot and people we follow and stuff like that. So I’m excited to hear about your journey. I definitely want you to share your grant cardones story, everybody hang tight. We’re gonna get into that. So Michael, like, you know, typical stuff, I just want to get some background I like to know, I like to kind of reverse engineer like, what’s going on today. That’s exciting. And then give us a little background on how you got there.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, today what’s really fascinating about my life is I live in a lot of different verticals. I’m a life coach. I’m a business coach. I’m a VP. I’m a board director, I do a lot of different things. And most importantly, it is my mission to empower people to become the hero of their own story and ultimately, end generational trauma. And and I recognize on a long enough timeline that will happen in my lifetime. I’m really trying hard to make that happen. Is it plausible? I don’t know yet. But I’m driven by this idea of empowering human beings to tap into their full potential. And it started because I’m a victim of child abuse. My mother was a drug addict, an alcoholic. When I was four years old, she actually cut off my right index finger. So that kind of creates baseline right, my stepfather super abusive. I was homeless as a kid. When I was 12 years old, I got high for the first time, started selling drugs. Got drunk at 13, expelled from school at 15 for selling drugs, of course, right? Got put into a last chance program, I learned so many practical business skills and that still didn’t graduate high school on time. They gave me the diploma, they were like, you just got to get out of here, man. And I was trying to find the solution for poverty. And it was thinking it was money, but I knew I had to make it legally. Because my friends were going to prison. My uncle’s in prison for life, my three childhood best friends had been murdered. I’ve been in handcuffs more times than I can count. Luckily, never went to jail. Somehow I just finagle my way out of those things. And then when I was 18, became an assistant manager at a Wendy’s had 52 people under me at 18 years old, made every mistake you can make in leadership. By 20. I was like, I need a job making $100,000 a year legally. And right around my 21st birthday, I landed a job with a fortune 10 company. This is no high school diploma, no college degree. And sure enough, I started making six figures. And then my life exploded and it just got way worse. I was 350 pounds, smoking two packs a day, drinking myself to sleep. And I was just like, what is happening? One day, I looked in the mirror Adam, and I said Michael, what are you willing to do to have the life that you want to have? The words no excuses, just results, came into my brain just reverberated through my body. Fast forward. 11 years later here I am talking to you, brother.

That’s the accountability mirror right?

Totally man, it was this thing where but it wasn’t I didn’t do it intentionally. I was just mad at myself. I was just pissed. I was like, Dude, what are you doing? Right? And and I went in that mirror and it became probably one of the most important things I’ve ever done in my life. If not the most important.

I love it. And wow, you said you were over 300 pounds, which now obviously, you look like you’re back in shape, and you’re doing good. And that’s a major change. And you know why? For people that don’t know, the accountability mirror is an idea from David Goggins book can’t hurt me. Michael and I were just talking about that earlier. So I brought it up, because I actually loved that point he made and you just hit it too, right? So it’s something that like, you look yourself in the mirror and said, yo, like, what are we doing here, man? You know, it’s like, Who do I really want to be right now?

Yeah, and the hard part is when you come from a traumatic background or abuse background, and everyone tells you, you’re not good enough, strong enough, capable enough, and then you’re negative reinforced with every time you step in your intuition, something bad happens, it’s the hardest thing you’ll ever do is be able to go You know what, I’m going to answer this question. And then I’m going to try to be the person I’m capable of being. And I argue that’s the most difficult thing anyone will ever do in their life.

Adam G. Force 8:43
Yeah, it’s tough. Because you know, with your background, which is pretty intense, you get lots of stories going on in your, in your mind that you tell yourself and obviously, as you know, now, it’s like, these things shape our behaviors, and then they become things we have to like break and change. And it’s a tough road, to kind of shift how you see the world and how you think about yourself in order to to get where you want to go. Right. So why don’t you tell us a little bit about unbroken? I want to hear kind of where the name comes from, I think we can get a good sense from what you’re telling me. And just how it started. Where’s the Epiphany happened for you to start this business?

Michael Unbroken 9:28
Yeah, absolutely. So the name came thinking broken came one night, three o’clock in the morning, you know, can’t sleep wide awake? And just thinking about and this was five years ago, almost six years ago now. And just thinking about this concept and this idea that anytime anyone has had any type of mental health element and their life anytime they don’t fit in the box, anytime they’re not that formulaic robot, they get labeled as broken and I was just like, That’s nonsense, man. Like, that’s not who I am. That’s not how I ever felt like, that’s not how I think. And then it was just like, oh my god think unbroken, like, that’s what it is. And it wasn’t intense, like I didn’t set out to set out to do this at them, no part of me was like, it’d be great. Let me be the spokesperson for, you know, child abuse that’s not on my radar. But I had been blogging, I’ve been educating myself, I’ve been learning about the impacts of trauma, I’ve been sharing it online, and people were just reaching out to me, and I kind of kept this under wraps for a couple of years, because I didn’t really know what I what my intention was, and I don’t want to do anything without intention. And slowly on the old blog, people would reach out and be like, Man, that thing you posted was amazing. I relate. And then that thing that you shared, you know, it changed my life. And then it was like, wow, you saved my life. And, and a huge amount of weight came with that, then it kept happening again, and again and again. And it was really wonderful, because what happened is I recognized and this is a weird moment out of my recognize that I had a moral obligation to step into this. Because what I had discovered meant that I needed to share it with other people as well, so that they can understand what they’re possible of doing in their lives also. And so thinking broken at the end of the day, it’s it’s a mission, it’s not even about me, that’s not it’s not called Michael, right. It’s it’s thinking broken, and I’m building out a team, I’m building out structures, I’m building out systems and support to break down the social narrative of people being broken in the world. So we can empower ourselves to become the hero of our own story, whatever that means for you. It’s not dictated by me. And that’s the thing, right? Can we help people tap into that part of them that says, I know, somewhere, dude, we all somewhere deep inside of us have that idea of who it is that we can be that mythical character that we have the ability to be that Superman, that Batman that whatever, you know, David Goggins, Fine, whatever. And in the thing about that is, it all starts with our mind, and it’s easy to throw around the words mindset, but like, just fix your mindset, life will be better. We all know, it doesn’t work that way. But But what you think becomes what you speak, and what you speak becomes your action and your action become your reality.

Adam G. Force 12:10
That’s it, man. That’s the formula. And it’s, it sounds so easy, but it’s a it’s a tough one. So it sounds like, you know, you started this business, What did it look like when you started? Because you mentioned at the beginning, you know where you’re at today, and you’re wearing a lot of different hats and things like that. And so when you started thinking broken, is it? Was it very focused? And how did you start getting a influx of cash to support what you were doing? Did you have another job at the time? Like, what what did that look like?

Michael Unbroken 12:46
Yeah, so you know, the nice part about growing up homeless as being an entrepreneur, very young. I know that sounds crass, but it’s true. So at eight years old, I was in the Boy Scouts, and they had us knocking door to door selling crap. And then at 10, I was stealing candy from the corner store and selling it to survive. That’s 100% margins, dude. And then, and then at 12, I’m selling drugs, and at 15, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? The list goes on and on. The one thing that I learned is I learned how to not be afraid to ask for the sell. And being in a fortune 10 company in a sales environment at 20 years old and getting this script, I was making this company, five to $7 million a year, I learned how to sell. And that’s the thing that I knew coming into building things on broken like you have to have money. And I scaled this business to six figures in nine months. That’s something most people will not do in a coaching space, right? I’m doing air quotes. But to answer your question, there’s a lot that happens in that when I was 25, I made a huge mistake. 26 I exited a business where I had stability working a job before I had a business off of its feet. And I learned a really hard lesson about what happens when you don’t have the parameters and frameworks of a business and in focus. Because next thing you know, I burned through my entire savings and I was borrowing money to pay my rent. You know, I knew I didn’t want to do that with think I’m broken. I needed to build this in a way that was sustainable so that I could look at a p&l and go, Okay, cool. We’re making money. I’m not freaking out right now. But but it started slowly, like all businesses do. And I will say one of my superpowers is patience. And so out the gate, the first thing that I knew I wanted to do was I wanted to write a book. And that’s when I, before I could do that, though I needed to understand if I had a valid product in the marketplace. And in order to do that, you know, here’s what’s interesting, people started reaching out to me, and they were saying, will you coach me? And I kept saying, No, I was like, I don’t I don’t want to be a part of that. Because I don’t know it. I don’t understand that. And so I just went back and I started looking at what all my mentors were doing. And I was like, Oh, of course I can use my IP, and then I can create some stuff and then I can host some workshops, and so went like speaking workshops, books, coaching online programs. podcast, right and trying to figure out the little areas to monetize each one of these to slowly grow the business. But it all starts with attention. Now being a VP of Sales and Marketing for an international company and a board director and a consultant for I’ve worked with Coca Cola, Red Bull, Four Roses, Indianapolis Motor Speedway, the list goes on and on from a consultant standpoint. And what are those guys all do really well. They do marketing, they do promotion. And so everything starts with promotion, because if people don’t know who you are, it doesn’t matter if you have the best product on planet Earth. And so I just Dude, I was just go look at my Instagram, I’ve posted like 2500 times, I got 10,000 tweets, I’ve got 400 blogs, I got 50,000 points on Reddit, right? Like it’s just all promotion, just putting yourself out there and grinding in this way where I wasn’t spending money on advertising, because people now will default to that. And I’m like, you cannot spend money on advertising, if you don’t have business structures, or cash flow exists, because you’re going to ultimately kill your own business. Even though I’ve spent I spent probably close to 1.5 million online over the course of my career in all these different verticals. But ultimately, it’s like, you got to start leveraging what is right there in front of you first. And that’s what I did. I said, let me leverage the attention. Let me put stuff out, let me ask people for the sell. Right? What and then when the coaching thing it was very much about I looked at it like this, I am willing to invest what I invest in myself. So then, if you want to be in my programs, you have to be able to meet me there as the commitment. And so I don’t, I’ve never once undercharged myself in this business. And if I give anyone a piece of advice, you’ve got to understand if you’re stepping into a business and you’re dramatically undercharging, you are going to lose in the marketplace. One because people aren’t going to take you seriously. Right for real. And two, because eventually, especially if you know service based business, or an online business, or retail business or any vertical ever, eventually you’re not going to make any money, and you’re going to either run flat. And if you’re running flat, you’re going to fail. So I just went on a diatribe, man.

I know you’re good. You’re good. You get a lot going on there. But I think you know, you shared a lot of good points. And I agree, I mean, I see it a lot. We coach entrepreneurs over here at Change Creator in different capacities around branding, storytelling and stuff like that website design. And I see a lot of people do want to jump into Facebook ads and other forms of advertising as the quick fix for the attention and traffic and sales. And we always were on the same page, as you were over the years, I’ve learned that if you have an idea, whether you’re a coach, or a course or whatever it is, if you can’t figure out organically how to make I say 10,000. But I’ll say 5000 a month like, you know, consistently, you should have some kind of systems organically working. So you That means you understand the messages that work, you understand how to get out there, and you have some things going that you can rely on or cushion, then you can think about these ads. So I would say I mean, I like to really say 10,000 a month organically. Because some people think that’s like a lot a lot of money, when really, when you really get into business, it’s not, that’s actually not that much. You’re gonna spend 10 grand like we hired a Facebook ad agency for a while to help promote one of our courses. And I mean, you’re spending four or five grand a month just for them to manage and optimize the ads. And then you got your ad spend on top of that. So you’re easily at like eight to 10,000 a month just for the ads, right? So if you haven’t done that organic legwork to make sure you know what works and what doesn’t. You’re going to spend all your money trying to figure it out with ads. And that’s how you go down fast.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it’s really important to understand to it, and especially now, like 10 years ago, you could have spent 100 bucks on digital advertising and you would make headway. Now, you might like if you’re not spending I really think about this, if you’re not spending 500 to $1,000 a day you shouldn’t be running an app now. And that’s a hard place to get to that. That’s my thought and my opinion on it, because I’m just trying to break through the noise. But But ultimately, so much of it is like where could that money be better spent, especially right now And to your point and growing organically. Man, there’s so many different places you can spend that money to build your business in a value driven way. Because people are getting flooded with ads. We know this I spend last this weekend I spent 10,000 on a single campaign for three days and one of my companies like you’re gonna have to break through that but think about what you can do with with money to create value for people. You can give away your book, you can give away your course you can give and create impact in people’s lives where that money is well better suited.

Adam G. Force 20:02
Yeah, I agree. And I look at another way to where you can even put money into your organic marketing by hiring a VA, right? So let’s say you want to get posted, you want to be a guest on podcast, I get clients. I did one podcast, it made me 10 grand just for a couple clients, because they heard the podcast, they reached out how do I work with you? Right, so these things happen. And so getting out on these podcasts could be really good. But you don’t want to spend, you know, 10 hours a week trying to dig up the contacts and reach out. So if you had that system in place, you hire a VA for 500 bucks a month, and they just crank them out for you. Right? I mean, so that’s an investment where you’re not spending 500 a day, but 500 a month, and you can get a very good level of awareness in return.

Michael Unbroken 20:46
So glad you said that I couldn’t agree more. As entrepreneurs, the word solopreneur makes me want to slam my face into a wall. Because if you’re trying to build a business by yourself, you inevitably are going to fail unless you’re in the tech space, like realistically, right, because if you think about it, no one great has ever done anything alone. And this idea that you can go and build this beautiful big structure all by yourself isn’t going to work. Because you’re going to get trapped in the tedium of I have to send the email, I gotta check the schedule, I got to post on social media. I mean, already, I got think unbroken has eight people, almost nine, really nine people on the team. And my other business, the other verticals, we have 32 people, and there’s not any way on planet Earth, I’m trying to do all this stuff by myself. One of the biggest fears that entrepreneurs always faces that idea because we come from the societal norm. And whereas we say, asking for help is weak, asking for help is the strongest thing that you will ever do. And if you can let down the guard of perfectionism, which is the reason why you’re tied to the idea that you can’t hire anyone because no one can do it as good as you. When you remove that nomenclature, from your vocabulary, I promise you, the way that you can start to scale, your business will become more apparent, because you’ll be tied into the things that you should be doing not wasting time on shift that doesn’t deserve your attention. Not that at all doesn’t deserve your attention. Let’s be very clear. But ultimately, at the end of the day, you cut a line down a piece of paper and go only the things Adam can do versus all the other stuff, I can bring someone into support, you’re way better off spending your early upfront money on support than advertising, or promos, or buying pizza or pizza or whatever that is when you focus on building your team first.

I agree, I think there’s two things that happen. You either have to let go in order to grow, or you keep control and you don’t grow. Right. So you have to let go in order. I didn’t mean for that to rhyme. But yes, I will remember that that’s a powerful way to state it. Right? I mean, you got to let go in order to grow because you have to start letting people do what they do bass. And one way I really appreciated it. That was Trey Llewellyn. I don’t know if you know him. He was like, well, the way I look at it is you can only work operate at 100%. Whatever you’re doing in the business, whatever hat you’re wearing, could be the owner hat from the 30,000 foot view, it could be the operator hat, the artists hat, whatever it is, it goes you get 100%. If you hire someone, and they can only do half of what you do, now your business is operating at 150%. And you’re like, Oh yeah, I guess that’s a nice way to look at that you get someone else you’re at 200%. So it’s like they’re still adding to the business, right? And as long as you’re smart enough to put their time towards revenue generating things like I don’t know about you, but you hear I hear all the time from entrepreneurs that we work with. It’s like they’re doing all kinds of things that don’t matter right now that don’t create them revenue and just sucking up their time. And you’re like, stay focused, stay focused.

I’m curious to your thoughts on this. Because I see the value and understanding and building the system. First, as the entrepreneur, I want to make sure I understand every aspect of my business. But then once I do, and I understand it and is built the first time I bring my people and we have slps we have handbooks, we have everything that people need so that when I bring them in onboarding and training is very simple, because I’ve laid it out step by step because I’ve already done it. And then I can remove myself. Do you agree with that?

Adam G. Force 24:28
100% I am right there with you. I didn’t hire an ad agency for Facebook until I’ve done ads and I understood them a little bit. I don’t need to be the master at Facebook ads where I put all my time, but I like to understand things to a certain level. So one I not only understand it for the business and how it works and what it should look like. But I know if they’re doing a good job or not. Right. So when you start a business, My belief is in line with what you think which is you do have to wear have multiple hats in the beginning, because you don’t have money yet to really hire out too much. So you have to be the artist, the operator, the owner, and you have to understand these business skills, right? And you can start doing things and you find how to generate the revenue. And then when you see what’s working, you create the system and you hand it off. But I wouldn’t just come in here and say, Oh, I heard that I should just do what I’m good at, and hire everyone else for everything. And the next thing, you know, you just have a bunch of broken shit going on with people trying to do things for you. And you don’t even know if it’s right or wrong or whatever.

Michael Unbroken 25:31
Yeah, and you’re gonna get ripped off work. That’s the thing, people, Oh, my gosh, Adam, if I can say one thing that I think people could carry with them, that will impact their business immediately, is that when you understand all of the systems of the operations of your business and the structure, you will never get ripped off. One of the biggest things that pisses me off is that there are there are all kinds of coaches, and advertising agencies and funnel builders and blah, blah, blah, who have never built anything of value, and they’re taking 10s of 1000s of dollars of your money. And they’re lying to you that and that’s you, and I’m gonna say this, and I know it’s gonna make people mad. It’s your fault, if that happens to you, because you did not do the things that you needed to do in order to make sure that you understood what you were getting involved in. And the hard part is that happens. And I’m so sorry. But when you understand the frameworks and structures on the front side, that will never occur.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, that makes sense. And that’s why you have to have an understanding of the business before you start doing those things. And yeah, you can, it could cost you a lot of money. And I’ve seen it too, like everyone. Now the new thing is, like, I’ll build your sales funnel and all that stuff. And it’s like, Okay, great. So you make it look pretty, but do you really know, like user experience? Do you really know, the psychology behind the pages and actual, like how to sell right, just because you can design something doesn’t mean you know how to sell. And, you know, it’s interesting, because to your point, here’s point in case Case in point, I had somebody come on, you know, we do branding and website design and stuff like that. And we have a unique experience of like the strategy and the UX that we put into those things to get high conversions, because we’ve done it a million times ourselves to get conversions, whether we’re selling a $20,000, high ticket or a transactional item. And when I get to a point, because we’re a smaller shop, we don’t have agency overhead, right? I don’t ever want to be an agency, but we had entrepreneurs, like you had someone knocking on your door, like, Hey, I’m in your course, can you actually do this for me? Can you actually take me to that next level. And so we started doing this thing, and I get somebody on the phone, and I was going through, like, you know, what the investment was, and stuff like that. And they’re like, I’ve already spoken to three other agencies, Adam, I have my credit card in hand, let’s do this. You know, because they realize the value of like, what they’re getting from a smaller shop, who’s doing all this stuff with a lot of experience. And then the agencies are like way, way more. So if you do have your bearings on how things were, what the market prices are, and what makes it tick, like you’ll know when to pull the trigger is I guess what I’m trying to say?

Yeah. 100% and you’ll know. I think, alignments, incredibly important in this, if I, you know, one of the things I always ask anyone that I bring on board, whether they’re a consultant, or a VA, or whatever, is I want to be in alignment with their values. What is their mission? What is their vision? Who are they? What do they represent in the marketplace? Also, what have they built before? Because, you know, it doesn’t make sense for me to bring in someone who’s only built a three figure business when I’m over here building 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 figure businesses? Right. So you have to really understand that, you know, one of my mentors, Brennan Dawson says the quality of your questions determines the quality of your answers. And you really have to ask the right questions across the board in all assets and and facets of your business. So that then you have the correct answer.

Adam G. Force 29:00
Absolutely. I love that you mentioned asking the right questions. And I don’t want to forget to talk about the Grant Cardones story. So we’re going to bring that up in a second. One of my favorite books is called the road less stupid. And it is a it is from a very experienced business guy. Keith, what the hell is his name? And it is all about asking the right questions. And it’s one of the better books I’ve read in business that you will just I’m already going through it my second time just because it’s so valuable in how you think about like assessing risk, asking certain questions and doing things. And he just shares a ton of just incredible perspective and the types of questions you should be thinking about for different things. I love that I actually just wrote that down. I have not read that book. Yeah, let me get this name just so you have the author name real quick.

Unknown Speaker 29:55
The Road Less Stupid. Yeah, and I think that’s such a practical piece of advice, too. And it’s I don’t think it’s to be crass. When people say ask the right questions, you really have to understand all of it top to bottom, and it sounds cumbersome. But when you do understand the complete inner workings of the business, like, you’ll know what to ask, and then that means I was asked this of myself, am I setting myself up? And my team? Am I setting myself and my team up for success? Or for failure? And that all starts with the questions.

Michael Unbroken 30:26
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it all starts there. And the more you hear, like how you shapes these perspectives, his name is Keith J. Cunningham just say his name. And I actually got this book from one of my mentors who recommended it at a summit, the mastermind summit that we were at, and I’ve been impressed with it. And it’s like, if you ask yourself just an example. It’s like, what would my business look like? If I only operated based on referrals? You know, like, you start thinking about things and tackling questions because tactical questions will get tactical answers and strategic questions will get strategic answers. And you’re right, it’s how we start that question, you can spiral yourself all the way down the wrong path that gets you nowhere fast. Or you can ask the right questions that actually starts getting you results you know what I mean? So tell me a little bit I know you got some investment I saw your so people have a little background I saw he Michael has a book on the back that 10x more which is from Grant Cardone. And there’s a story behind that book. And Grant Cardone because I now let Michael tell mica you jump in. Tell us what was the situation with Grant Cardone?

Yeah, so too long didn’t read Grant Cardone invested $10,000 into my business, longer version of that. So four months ago, I was on Facebook and I kept seeing this Grant Cardone book pop up for his funnel, right get the free book, the free book, and I’m like, Okay, cool. I’m gonna go funnel hack this guy. And, and, and I was like, let me just go see what he’s doing. Let me follow the structure. Let me figure this out. Because I have a free book funnel as well. And it works well. But I’m always looking like what is the granular change that I can make that might create a bigger impact and, and so I got the book, it comes in, it’s sitting on my desk for a couple of days. I’m just looking at it. I’m typically only listen to books, because I go to point 5x, two 3x speed and I just like buried in my brain. And so I got this book, it’s sitting there staring at me and it’s like Michael read me and so I pick it up, I’m getting ready to go to bed and I just start reading it. And next thing you know, an hour and a half later, I’m still reading this. I’m like, I have to go to bed. Next morning I wake up I’m in the gym, I get the audiobook, listen to the audiobook and one day. And then I’m like, Okay, this is phenomenal. There’s something here this guy speaking my language. I’ve never heard anyone put it like this before. So I was like, Okay, I wonder if he has any conferences or something. I’ve never heard of this dude before. Keep in mind you guys have to understand something. There’s 8 billion people on planet Earth. No one knows who you are. Now I understand Grant Cardones 10 million followers, blah, blah, blah.

Adam G. Force 33:01

Michael Unbroken 33:02
Well, I find out he’s got this conference in Miami. 10 days later after I read this book. And so I get a ticket, a fly out there. I’m in the conference. I like I’m there. I’m present. I want to see what’s going on. I think I’m going to a marketing conference. Adam. Turns out I’m going to entrepreneur conference, which was incredible and so, I’m sitting there. And this guy Pete Vargas gets on stage and Pete’s talking about, you know, four years ago I’m where you are. And I go Pete, bullshit. I heard that story before. Right? Everyone said, but then I kept listening and I was like, Oh my God, this dude’s like speaking with passion and truth and heart. And he goes, anyone who invest in this program will get the opportunity to pitch their business to Grant Cardone for $10,000 investment. And so we got a lunch break, and there’s a guy standing behind me named Russ Jaeger. And so Russ and I chatted up we connect. Like a Russ, I don’t know why, but I’m supposed to know you. So we go back, we blah, blah, blah next day. So there’s a video of Russ agar that pops up on the screen. The year prior, he did the pitch off for Grant Cardone and won the $10,000 investment. So let me tell you guys something really important. A Hello can be the opportunity that changes your life. And you’re sitting here on these conferences and in the elevator and on the street and you’re not talking to people and you never know who that person is. So fast forward a couple of months, we get the email Hey, create your pitch video to get entered 1000s of people submit right whatever make it to the top 10 huge deal. Adam I knew if I made it to the top 10 I would win because I had I forced it into my brain because what you think becomes your what you speak you speak come your action, your action coming around it. Now coming back to my point earlier what I said you can never do anything great alone. And so I thought to myself, who do I know that won this last year? Oh, I’m gonna call Russ Jaeger. And then I talked to his wife Emily and I talked to a bunch of their people when I watch Pete Marcus’s training on speaking and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I rehearsed this pitch 75 times in three days. So here’s what’s crazy to visit the best part. There’s a video of that I have on my website. We get up there. The top 10 we’re in the Zoom Room. There’s 10,000 people watching online. There’s pressure. You got Grant Cardone up there. Jared glandt. You got Brandon Dawson and Pete Vargas. All these guys are heavy hitters, right? And so and in them sitting there, and grant comes on stage. He’s like, what are we doing? Okay, they got five minutes to pitch their business, Adam, I’ve been rehearsing a five minute pitch 75 times for the last three days. It’s buried into my brain. Grant goes in real life. You don’t get five minutes. I was like, Oh, yeah. You get two minutes. Dude, you just saw people’s heart just sank man. And I was like, let’s go and he goes, Who wants to go first I raise my hand. I go, I’m going first. He goes, you know, people always say they go first. But they’re not ready. And I do my two minutes. And grant literally does a mic drop from the stage. And I knew immediately I had one. And And the thing about that is there’s a lot of layers to this Adam, right? One, there’s practice, you have to be proficient, to you have to understand the inner workings of your business top to bottom at all times. Because sometimes you’re gonna get two minutes, right? You have to ask for help. If I wouldn’t have talked to Russ, I do not believe I would have won that investment.

Adam G. Force 36:35
What did Russ tell you that was helpful?

Michael Unbroken 36:38
So I asked him what he did. I said, Russ, tell me what you did last year. And what I recognized in the conversation that Russ and I were having is… So, people label Grant Cardone as the greatest salesperson in America. Right. And that’s fair, I get it. And I was like, oh, what we have to actually do is sell the best salesperson in America, us our business. And I’ve been selling stuff since I was eight years old. I know how to do this. But the thing that rusted for me that was really special and really important, is a he supported me again, because you can’t do anything alone. And be he poked holes in my pitch. And he said you should say this, try that I would take that out. That doesn’t make sense. Here’s what I did last year that I think would be beneficial. Okay, do the thing that people have to understand is they’re always looking for mentors, they want to climb the ladder. They want to have Robert Kiyosaki be their mentor. And I’m like, dude, I’m looking for the person one step ahead of me. Now 500, who is the guy, or the or the woman or the person I can connect with? Who’s my parallel on this venture? Where I can just reach out to them and go, Hey, I see. You’re one step ahead. Can I ask you a question? And so ultimately, at the end of the day, Grant Cardone invested $10,000 in my business, but more importantly, the Matt, I get to be part of that community. And you know, it’s really beautiful and powerful to be a part of something that’s so much bigger than just this idea of entrepreneurship. It’s about family, it’s about community. And as entrepreneurs, we know, it’s a lonely road. And I don’t think there’s anything more important than being in connection with other human beings. Love it.

That’s a good good story for us to wrap up on here so I can stay respectful of your time and everybody listening. So great, great insights and lessons throughout this conversation. So I hope everybody listening is taking notes. You know, really thinking about your business asking the right questions, doing the right things at the right time, right. We talked about organic first paid advertising, not being afraid to ask for help and you don’t need the most famous person is going to charge you $100,000 a year for some program to coach there are people one step ahead. So I think that was a very powerful point that you made there as well. So let’s give people a shout out where do they find you? They want to work with you learn more, all that kind of stuff. What’s the best place for them to look online?

Yeah, absolutely, man. So I’m Michael unbroken everywhere. And then I have a free business challenge seven day challenge at thinkunbrokenbusiness.com/challenge. It’s totally free. And I go deep into sales, marketing, scaling, leadership, SOPs, the whole nine.

Adam G. Force 39:16
Got it. Awesome. Michael, thanks so much for your time today. Appreciate it, man.

Michael Unbroken 39:20
I appreciate you Adam. Thank you so much, my friend.

Adam G. Force 39:27
Thanks for tuning into the Change Creator podcast visit us at Change creator.com forward slash go big to get access to free downloads and other great resources that will drive your business forward.

Joanne Sonenshine: Grow & Scale Through Funding & Facilitated Collaboration

Listen to our exclusive interview with Joanne Sonenshine:

Subscribe to this show on Spotify  |  iTunes  |  Stitcher  |  Soundcloud

As a social entrepreneur, you might need connections in foreign governments, help with navigating policy, or funding to grow your impact. But how can you make that stuff happen without having a powerhouse roladex? You find someone that already has the connections. And that is what Joanne Sonenshine, Founder & CEO, of Connective Impact does for you.

We talk to Joanne about how she helps connect business to the right people and what that means to your success. Don’t miss this high-impact interview packed with solid advice.

Learn more about Joanne and her work at > www.connectiveimpact.com/

We also recommend:

Transcription of Interview

(Transcribed by Otter.ai, there may be errors)

Adam G. Force 0:03
Welcome to the Change Creator podcast where entrepreneurs come to learn how to live their truth, get rich and make a massive difference in the world. I’m your host, Adam forest co founder, Change Creator and co creator of the captivate method. Each week we talk to experts about leadership, digital marketing and sales strategies that you can implement in your business and like to go big, visit us at changecreator.com forward slash go big to grab awesome resources that will help drive your business forward. Hey, what’s going on everybody? Welcome back to the Change Creator podcast. This is your host, Adam Force. I’m excited to chat today with someone who is the CEO and founder of a company called connective impact. And they’re doing some really cool stuff. And she’s a contributor over at school really deep into the social entrepreneurship space, which obviously is big for us. That’s the direction that we have been going for years and what we’re all about. So her name is Joanne now Joanne, I, I really have a hard time with your last name, but I’m going to give it a shot. And I think it’s Sonenshine. So Joanne Sonenshine and she is using this company collective impact to create collaborative approaches towards solving global problems. So she’s connecting people, entrepreneurs, with key players, whether it’s in government or other areas, to help get through different, you know, policies and updates. And, you know, when we’re trying to create change in different areas of the world, it really helps when you know, somebody that can connect you to the right people. And that’s something that they do among other things. So we’re gonna dive into all that stuff. So she’s really passionate about societal change and she has devoted her entire career to support a nonprofit decision makers, corporate leaders, different entrepreneurs, also, they can scale their impact in the world, right. So she’s also the author of a book called purposeful profits inside successful business making a positive global impact, and change seekers finding your path to impact. So we’re going to talk a lot about the the social entrepreneurs face challenges, successes, how she connects people, and you can see, you know, it might be investors, it might be government officials, whatever it is, and you’re gonna see how she might be able to kind of like help you get over certain barriers with your business. So this is really great conversation, if you missed the last one is with Michelle McGlade. And we really get into mindset stuff, which is so important, you know, 80% of the game here as an entrepreneur is in the mind. So I love tapping into those, those conversations. So if you missed that, you can go back and check it out. Last but not least, our June roster for the brand studio. So if you’re looking for branding, and website work, the June roster is full, but we are looking now forward towards July. So if you are looking to, you know, you’re not getting the sales, right, so what happens is we have people who are struggling because they’re embarrassed? Well, you know, I’ve heard it specifically people say, Well, I’m embarrassed to send, you know, important clients or celebrities, for partnerships to my website, because it’s just not reflective of who I am. It’s not done professionally. And what happens is, there’s a couple areas that cause sales to crumble, and you don’t have high conversion rates, or they’re inconsistent is, you know, you have bad first impression, you know, we’re humans first impressions matter. It builds trust and credibility, there’s data out there that supports that. So a bad first impression, you lose somebody right away, they don’t trust you, you know, they’re out. So you have leakage of the number of people that are gonna want to work with you. Number two is you know, you have a bad user experience, people are confused, they don’t understand what’s going on between the design of like what they need to do, but also the messaging. So things get really confusing and you lose it and confuse people never buy. And then last but not least, you don’t have a sales system, right? So you know, we want to optimize as many people that come to the site, we want to make sure we’re converting as many people as possible, they need to know how you’re going to help them you gotta have a really smart sale system. So this is what we help with by creating really powerful branding that people fall in love with, but also setting up a high converting website. So you can go to our website, change critter.com go to our services, and you can book a call, we’ll do a strategy call, see if we’re a good fit to work together. Alright guys, that’s it. And that’s all for July Okay, that those bookings would be for July. Alright guys, so we’re gonna jump into this conversation with Joanne. Okay, show me the heat.Hey, Joanne, welcome to the Change Creator podcast How you doing today?

Joanne Sonenshine 4:46
I’m doing great. Adam, how are you doing? Really excited to be here.

Adam G. Force 4:49
I’m doing amazing. Everything has been nice here in Miami. And yeah, I’m just looking forward to kind of hearing what you’re all about and pulling in as many good tips and inputs I can for, for everybody listening, so why don’t you, you know, just kick us off a little bit and ground everybody with what you’re all about and what’s going on today, like what you’re working on and stuff like that.

Joanne Sonenshine 5:12
Sure, I’d be happy to Yeah. So I’m Joanne Sonnenschein, I live just outside of DC and Arlington, Virginia. And my company is called connective impact. I am a development economist. So I’ve been working in the space of economic development mostly in in overseas countries, not here in the US as much. But what we do is we help bring companies together with nonprofits, funders, and in some cases, government organizations to really help build collaborations that are focused on mutual mutual mission, our goal, often in this space of well, actually only in the space of social impact and sustainability. So the company was founded in 2014. And I started the company after having spent about 10-15 years here in Washington working in policy, international NGO, kind of program delivery and working with corporates on some of their policies around sustainability. And some things I’m working on. Well, we just reconfigured our website, which is super, super exciting. And we’ve shifted our service delivery model a little bit, we were fee for service. And now we’re actually a membership organization, which has been really interesting to see that shift happen.

Adam G. Force 5:13
Yeah, how does that how does that work for your customers? Can you just like, what’s the experience like for them now?

Joanne Sonenshine 6:35
Yeah, so it has changed that much in practice, I would say a lot of it has changed on our side, companies usually come to us because they know whatever it is they’re trying to achieve in the social impact or sustainability space is tricky and requires effective partnership. And so whether it be them looking for diversified funding, or implementation partners, or other types of partners, like from a strategic perspective, they know that they need kind of a guide, or a Sherpa, or someone who knows different people within organizations who can help them achieve their goals. So that’s what we do and in terms of how it works. Now in a membership model, organizations pay us monthly, and it allows us to kind of be more free and creative and how we pull partners together, we’re not as concerned about who’s paying for what, everyone’s kind of pay the same. And we’re in this together. And we’re trying to figure out how to how to move the needle together through collaboration.

Adam G. Force 7:33
Can you share an example of a scenario where a client is coming to you with, I guess, one of those, you know, challenges that they need that support, right, like what kind of unique challenges are people facing where your support is necessary? And then what is that experience look like? So how are we? What’s the transformation for them?

Joanne Sonenshine 7:57
Yeah, it’s usually a company, or an NGO, that’s, you know, within the first few years of trying something new, maybe in a particular geographic region or around a particular theme. So let’s take climate change, for example. We’ve worked with a company who had a new climate goal that they set internally for their business operations. And we’re we’re trying to deliver on that goal and a particular region in Central America. And they came to us to say, you know, we we are slowly inching forward, but we cannot get to this goal without help, and what they needed and the key so what we do is we figure out, what is it that’s going to help them achieve their goal? What type of partners do they need? Do they need thought leadership partners? Do they need business partners? Do they need supply chain partners need funders do they need, you know, better ways of working with the governments and then the Central American country where they’re working? And once we nail that down, we can prioritize exactly who they should be engaging with, and what that type of engagement will help kind of deliver on their goal. And then from there, we become matchmakers. Where we we are the ones reaching out to the potential partners, donors, government, whoever may be telling the story of our client, we now call them members of our members and, and sharing about how, you know, a mutual goal delivery process would really benefit everyone through comparative advantage, which is one of my favorite economic principles. And and then we we pull together the respective partners and facilitate introductions and then actually get partnerships underway in the case of fundraising will also help advise on how to craft the right type of proposals or requests and things like that.

Adam G. Force 9:54
Okay, so I do want to go back to a comment you made about the economic principle that you really like? And so why don’t you explain that? What was the economic principle that you mentioned that you said?

Joanne Sonenshine 10:08
Head of advantage. Yeah

Adam G. Force 10:09
Yeah. Can you explained what that means for people.

Joanne Sonenshine 10:11
Sure, sure. So it’s, it’s essentially looking at what your strengths are, and looking at complementarity of others and how what you put into a particular engagement, collaboration, whatever it may be partnership relationship, kind of helps build up that other person’s skill set and visa V, what they bring to your skill set. So it’s, it’s basically looking at the effort that you need to take to do something alone, versus the effort that a partner could help bring to make it easier for you. It’s like complementarity on steroids. And what we often think about when we’re working with with organizations that have very high reaching goals, right, if you’re working in social impact, if you’re a social enterprise, you’re obviously trying to do a couple things at once you’re trying to make money. And you’re also trying to do something that’s good for the world. And both of those things can be challenging on their own. And when you pull it all together, it makes it much more in an intensified process. So comparative advantage just allows you to take a look at what you’re best at as an organization, and do the same for potential partners, and then look to see when you pull it all together is the is the sum greater than the What is it? Is it is the sum greater than the parts? Are you know that that term?

Adam G. Force 11:33
Yeah, the sum greater than the whole? Is that?

Joanne Sonenshine 11:35
Yeah. You know what I mean?

Adam G. Force 11:39
Yes, yes. I mean, okay, so that’s interesting. And yeah, I mean, there’s just good alignment, I guess, through partners and how they elevate each other and things like that. And how do you have the ability to make connections to you know, whether it’s, I mean, one of the most, I guess, tricky ones that stood out to me is, you know, if we had to get in touch and work through certain regulations with government and different policies like that stuff, I always find, that’s when things get really real, like when you’re running a social enterprise, and you’re trying to implement things that aren’t standard practices, obviously. And you do need to get on board with people in the government and the communities and things like that. And yeah, and I think that’s overwhelming for young entrepreneurs, when you’re starting a business, you’re in the States, or, you know, wherever, and you’re like, Oh, I want to, like help these people out in this other country. But like, it’s like, so overwhelming, like, I have no idea like, is that? Can I really do that? You know, can I Really? Am I really gonna go talk to the government and figure this thing out? Like, you know what I mean?

Joanne Sonenshine 12:45

Adam G. Force 12:46
I’m curious, like, where your experience and how you have the ability to make those connections? surfaced?

Joanne Sonenshine 12:54
Yeah, it’s been a long time of building those networks and understanding of regulations and roles and policies, and how that all interplays with impact work. You know, I started my career actually, as a corporate bond originator on a trading floor and London, and, you know, moved very quickly into a different space where, once I saw poverty around the world, I realized that I didn’t want to be making a lot of money selling bonds for for rich companies. And I think once you start to travel, and you see the world and you talk to people, and you learn, and you read and you, you follow people listen and learn, you know, you can, you can start to see the connections that must be made to create the solutions that we need for some of these global challenges. You know, and then once I moved into government work, I worked for the previous government for a period of time and was doing policy work on international trade. So you know, in that sense, you do get an idea of how other governments work because we were having to negotiate with every government in the in the World Trade Organization. So it just, it’s overtime, you build these like little snippets of insights, and then you pull all that together into into kind of how you use that on a day to day basis. But I’m also an avid reader and an avid researcher, and then we’ve got a great research team here at connective impact that’s that’s tracking as much as we possibly can for our members.

Adam G. Force 14:25
Hmm, interesting. Yeah. So if you become a member now you have this ongoing access, right? So and I could see the value of having those connections obviously because getting your foot in the door. I mean, that’s that’s challenging in any aspect of business right?

Joanne Sonenshine 14:42
It is

Adam G. Force 14:43
Especially when you’re getting into you know, different cultures and governments and things like that. So if I’m if you are a member now is that so people will have what what do you get access to as far Is that kind of support? Right? Is it like, because you talked about like, well, we can help with certain proposals and, you know, getting connected to certain people. So is it just that you on a regular basis have support from your team? And you can say, hey, like, how often do you need a new connection?

Joanne Sonenshine 15:20
Fair question and the answer is kind of so we start every engagement with our members with an audit, a partnership and fundraising audit, where we go through what their needs are, what their their biggest interests were, for joining collective impact. And from there, we can prioritize what it is that they’re really looking for. And then we have different levels. So it’s kind of entry level, you get access to three facilitated introductions. at the institutional level, I think it goes up to 10 or 15. And then we have corporate and funder memberships as well. And, and then, of course, there’s add on opportunities outside of that. But in addition to the actual facilitated introductions, which I think most people value very highly, we also are doing quite a bit of engagement among the different member categories. So we’re bringing folks from our from the funder network in to talk to our community of NGOs and social businesses were bringing corporates in to talk to again, the implementers. We’re trying to bring corporates together with funders to think a little bit more about like, how do you co fund How do you make the resource delivery much bigger than it already is. And so a lot of that interplay is also highly coveted. And that’s available all the time. No mystery, you can contact other members who the member directory, we have events, we have all sorts of really cool ways to to bridge the gaps that there currently are between the funding and the doing.

Adam G. Force 16:45
Okay. And so you’re saying that you actually, when you do the audit, if there’s a need, that is, you know, for funding, that there’s support in that area, too?

Joanne Sonenshine 16:57
Yes, yes, absolutely. So a lot of our work kind of is in that fundraising space, whether it be with philanthropic donors through grants, or impact investors, which for your audience might be really interesting, or in some cases, public money. So again, international development, we do a lot of work with like USAID and State Department and here in the US, and then other countries as well. They’re similar agencies. So yes, so through the audit, we’ll figure out what is it they’re looking for? Are they looking for funding? Well, then we know that we need to direct our attention to funders, are they looking for implementing partners, then we look at our do our community, you know, and so that helps us really direct our attention.

Adam G. Force 17:38
Yeah, yeah. And how do you, I feel like a lot of times, companies will jump the gun with, I need funding, or I need money, and they’re not building the business, and learning how to actually create a sales system and make money and do those things so that they can be sustainable. And they just think, oh, we just need to get money. But then when they get the money, they don’t really know how to create those sales systems. And it just burns money. Yeah. How do you do you see these, like premature? I guess, desires for funding? And do you? How do you handle that?

Joanne Sonenshine 18:18
Somewhat, I would say most of the groups that come to us have a good sense of what they would do with the money I will I agree with you if if a business or an enterprise, you know, is just getting started, there’s kind of this, this incentive to fundraise and get the equity investors and see, you know, stage a, stage B, whatever it is. But if they come to us, and they don’t have a clear sense of their vision, and short, medium and long term goals, as well as the social impact piece figured out or enough so that we can start doing matchmaking, then we’re not they’re not ready for us. We don’t see a ton of it. But we certainly have. And we have said to companies, you know, why don’t you go kind of work on your strategy and then come back, then we can talk a little bit more about about funders, but, but that vision is critical. And also thinking about how you’re going to pair the ROI from a financial perspective with the social impact is really important. Mm hmm. It’s not easy.

Adam G. Force 19:18
No, it’s not. And and we all want to like make sure you know, we’re helping people the best way we can. So I’m always curious. And if you’re talking to a lot of these different social enterprises, you know, just maybe some of those circumstances they always stick out in my mind I and then, you know, we work with a lot of entrepreneurs, and I see that too, right? So I’m always curious and how people are kind of thinking about that and if you’ve had different experiences, so I would be curious to know love. Can you share maybe one or two the types of businesses maybe that you’ve worked with successfully and you know, what kind of businesses is there a common ground but Between the types of businesses that tend to reach out aside from just social enterprise, but just, you know, e commerce versus, you know, other forms of services, so many different things. So I’m curious, who tends to be looking for this type of support from you?

Joanne Sonenshine 20:16
Yeah, from us. It’s it’s companies that have international operations that are often sourcing products from vulnerable populations. So an example would be we have a member that’s a shea butter producer, so she she sells shea butter products here in the United States to retailers that, you know, we’re familiar with, and she sources the Shea in West Africa, from women, shea butter producers, who she supports through a fair price and yeah, you know, your, your listeners have probably heard about the whole like, Fairtrade concept, right. Yeah. And in a lot of our work, my I spent a lot of time working in food and agriculture in the field. So helping support smallholder farmers that were growing things like coffee, and cocoa, and tea and spices and fruits and vegetables. They’re incredibly poor, and they’re not paid very well, despite what we think we pay for a $4 cup of coffee. And so there’s a lot of work right now to help kind of bring up the living wage, but also support basic necessities for the people that are growing our food or making our clothing that are producing things like soap. And so she’s created an amazing program. And we have been trying to help kind of bring some additional resources to bear for her for her company. We do a lot of work actually in coffee, and cocoa, tea spices, and what I mentioned before those types of companies, and what they’ve come to us for is support in bringing financial resources to the programs that they already have in place to help. Yeah, leverage some of these improvements to the producers.

Adam G. Force 22:01
And I’m curious on your KPIs, your your key performance indicators, like what you look for is with your business, obviously, is the success of the clients and members that you’re working with, obviously making those connections helping them make progress. But I’m curious if you’re also looking at how your connections are elevating communities like the one you just spoke about, like what does it mean to them, because now we have a fair trade sourcing and, you know, different pipelines, where that could improve the community and their workflow.

Joanne Sonenshine 22:38
It’s an excellent question. And we are a B Corp. So in order to report to be lab, we do have to think about how the work that we’re doing is impacting people in communities all over the world. It’s not easy to track that when we are not the ones doing the actual work on the ground. But we do try to get a sense of what what our partnerships bring. So I’ll give you an example. We were working with a pretty large Coffee Company that that everybody knows coffee beverage company, and they we paired them with an NGO, working in Mexico, and to do and a number of things. But one of the biggest results that we wanted to see under that partnerships were increased income for the farmers. And we were able to improve incomes, I think it was something like 40% for, you know, like 1100 farmers, which the encouragement for us is that if we hadn’t gotten that partnership in place, those 1100 farm families wouldn’t have improved income. So we use indicators from our members, whatever we can get to show that our partnerships are meaningful, but it’s something that we’re really focused on for the future to to better track that. Not just number of partners, not just funding, but like what is the real impact here? And that’s important. Yeah,

Adam G. Force 23:56
the actual economic impact. I mean, like, what is the and that may take time, right? So that doesn’t, it’s not like, Hey, we started this new member, and in a month, we’re gonna not you know, it could be a year or two before we see actual economic change of, you know, what is the average income for the community or, you know, things like that. And even I’d be curious, just on survey data from the community, you know, is your life different? Are things better? Do you see a difference in the community around you like just stuff like that? I always, I love to see those results. And I, I wish they were easier to capture. They’re like big efforts. And I know it’s tough, like when we’re smaller companies to really capture those things. But I guess when our eyes on the prize sooner or later, they start to surface as long as we’re thinking about them, and we’re looking for that, you know, and I just love the potential behind that from your efforts, which I think is just cool because you can help the entrepreneur And the more successful that entrepreneur becomes, then the more successful that community can be. And it’s a really good domino effect. Right?

Joanne Sonenshine 25:08
Absolutely. I couldn’t agree more. And there’s a lot of talk right now, particularly in the B Corp community about tracking impact. And, and it has to be dynamic and evolves. It’s not, it’s not static, as you say. And so it makes it really complicated, but really important, and it helps for us as entrepreneurs, it helps us direct our resources better

Adam G. Force 25:29
There’s the government’s there. Like I know, there’s a lot of statistic analysis done in the US for average incomes, different households, you know, you know, all that kind of stuff. And you can gather that every few years. are other governments even? Do they even have the resources and processes set up to capture that kind of data?

Joanne Sonenshine 25:52
They do, they do for the most part, but I would say in certain places, there are some pretty remote communities that are not touched as as well by the government. That’s true here in the US, right. And it’s it’s sometimes an invasion of privacy to have a company knock on the door and say, like, how has your income improved this year? Right. Like, we don’t necessarily all talk about that very openly, you have to be kind of careful. But yeah, there’s a ton of work being done in like household surveys and community, like through apps. And, you know, there’s a lot of now app based survey, which is takes that privacy element, you know, whole step for Yeah, yeah, there is a lot of that being done, which definitely helps.

Adam G. Force 26:31
It’s interesting. Yeah, I guess there has to be some form of reporting to really get that data from the actual, you know, worker basic, yeah. Cuz you won’t even know Do you have a job or not? And unless someone is telling you, so there’s really no way to know unless the employer can say, Well, I have now 30 people at this wage, which means two years ago, we had 10 people at a lower wage, now we have 30 people at a higher wage. So there would be from the employer, some type of statistical assessment that could help without getting input from the end user. I get that. I mean, I just because what I always love is like I see other groups where they bring in like solar to communities, and it’s it’s they do, they’re able to measure how many households are now have certain things and what that means to those families. And it’s really great to see the fruits of people’s efforts.

Joanne Sonenshine 27:26
It is. Yeah, no, absolutely, we work with a group called the Global global living wage coalition. So I would encourage people, if you’re interested to look there, they they do a lot of that. And most of the businesses that we work with have some pretty good we call it and development, monitoring and evaluation systems in place. But that is still always a work in progress.

Adam G. Force 27:50
Yeah, I would be curious if you have noticed, um, like, if I was sourcing shea butter or coffee or something, and you work with great, I know, one of our first interviews and first magazine cars would take work for ethno tech bags, and he sources, hand artists and made like fabrics for his bags and stuff and supports their culture. And I love all that stuff. And I’m I, I’m curious if shit, I was losing my thought I shouldn’t say that last example. What was I just gonna say? It was about sourcing certain products. Man, it’ll come back to me,

Joanne Sonenshine 28:28
I know, but I will say I’ll just kind of you get you gave a great example about that. That’s no bags. Here in the US, I will say there is still a little bit of a lack of awareness about how important it is to support growing enterprises that are built to these type of social impact models. Yeah. And so the more that we can do to educate our population here, lifts everyone up.

Adam G. Force 28:56
That’s it. Yeah. Okay, so I remember my thought I agree with you. And part of my the equation here, I always look at life as this like algorithm and looking at this thing. Okay, great. So we could pay fair wages for people who are in those spaces, right? cultivating the coffee, the soaps and things like that. Is there Have you seen companies coming in or other efforts in those communities to help inform people through education so they could start doing things in certain ways that will get them more fruitful results in in their communities and their lives? So it’s not just keep doing the same thing? We’re gonna pay you a decent wage. But if you could do it this way, and you can operate this way, it’ll be even more beneficial. Like is that happening too? Do you see that?

Joanne Sonenshine 29:46
Absolutely, there is a lot of that happening and I’ll just, you live in Miami. So you probably see the influx of of migration coming from, you know, part south to United States. You It’s a it’s a political challenge. It’s an economic challenge. The reason why these people are coming, you know, North is because they don’t have the economic benefit, they don’t have the safety nets, they don’t have a feeling of freedom of democracy. And so what we’re finding is that a lot of businesses that are investing in those regions, as well as the US government and other governments are trying to build out foundations that are supporting business improvements, technology, adoption, innovation for youth and women. So that the foundation is better, so that their baseline is better, so that people don’t feel the need to leave their homes, but they can actually improve their productivity on it, whether it’s farms or through whatever they’re doing in their countries. And it’s you know, it’s it’s not to say that, that in certain instances, there is a need to leave an unsafe scenario, but if the economic vibrancy is there, it makes it so much more attractive to stay and to build and to grow. Now, that to me is the is the future of social enterprise is let’s help whoever wants to create a business or be successful or have, you know, a, a, something that they believe in, let’s make sure the resources are there for them to build it for themselves. And and grow it. And I don’t care if you’re here in the US, or you’re in other places, parts of the world, we all want to feel that sense of fulfillment and ownership. Yeah, so yes, there is a lot happening. There’s still so much need.

Adam G. Force 31:34
Yeah, it’s tough. And I, I see a lot of social entrepreneurs, when I first got into the social entrepreneurship space and doing what I do. One thing that has happened a lot is people who are entrepreneurs in the social impact space, I would say 65 to 75% of the time, they are they come to me saying well, money’s not a priority for me. I’m just trying to make an impact. And wow. Yeah, you know, we see this a lot with the I mean maybe people…

Joanne Sonenshine 32:06
Yeah, it’s always the other way around. The impact, we need to we need more more money.

Adam G. Force 32:12
Yeah, well, it’s fascinating. And I’m like, Well, if you feel that way, you’re not going to make, you’re gonna have money to run the business and have an impact. And they’re, they don’t connect those dots. And so where I was going with that was I was curious. And it sounds like you’re not seeing that. So maybe when people are at a certain stage, and they’re reaching out to you. They are at that stage, because they’re beyond that thought process. Right?

Joanne Sonenshine 32:37
Yeah, I think you’re right. And I mean, listen, as a as a social entrepreneur, myself, I often grapple with that I have a business coach, who will say like, you have to pay yourself, make sure that your pricing prospect, right? We all do that. No, by the time they come to us, I would say most of their impact goals are set to an extent, there’s often this need to grow and scale and replicate and all that. But what they are needing is something, whether it be a partner or a funder, to take them to the next level.

Adam G. Force 33:09
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. So that’s where we come in. Love it. Awesome. Well, I want to be respectful of your time. So we’ve been chatting for a while. Where can people learn more about what you’re doing? So anybody listening, you have a social enterprise, you’re looking for those connections, you need to get support on some of those more complicated processes and things like that this could be a great opportunity, because it just takes a weight off your shoulders when you have people that have the Rolodex have the networks and the experience, right. So I love the service that you’re providing to to help elevate these guys. So where can they go to learn more and connect?

Joanne Sonenshine 33:46
Well, thanks, Adam. I appreciate that. So connectiveimpact.com is where they can go. And if they click through, they’ll see all of our different membership levels. If there’s ever any questions, you know, please reach out we often host public events as well, webinars and workshops. So I would encourage folks to look at our resources page to learn about those and join any time just to get a sense for what we’re doing and what we’re talking about and who’s involved in our community.

Adam G. Force 34:13
Beautiful. All right, thank you so much for your time and you I really appreciate it. Thanks, Adam. Great to be here. Thanks for tuning into the Change Creator podcast, visit us at Change creator.com forward slash go big to get access to free downloads and other great resources that will drive your business forward.

Michelle McGlade: Mastering the Inside Out Game and Leadership of Self

Listen to our exclusive interview with Michelle McGlade:

Subscribe to this show on Spotify  |  iTunes  |  Stitcher  |  Soundcloud

Why do so many social entrepreneurs get stuck in their business? Is it business strategy or mastery of self? We got in touch with expert, Michelle McGlade to find out.

As 2019 Woman to Watch, award-winning CEO, best-selling author, speaker, digital marketing expert, and business owner, Michelle has leveraged 20+ years’ experience to build three successful enterprises and coached hundreds of leaders in the building, scaling, or exiting their businesses. Michelle believes success is an inside-out game and leadership of self is the key to building teams and unlocking your next level of growth in business and life.

Learn more about Michelle and her work at > MichelleMcGlade and unhideyourmagicquiz.com.

We also recommend:

Transcription of Interview

(Transcribed by Otter.ai, there may be errors)

Adam G. Force 0:03
Welcome to the Change Creator podcast where entrepreneurs come to learn how to live their truth, get rich and make a massive difference in the world. I’m your host, Adam Force co founder, Change Creator and co creator of the captivate method. Each week we talk to experts about leadership, digital marketing and sales strategies that you can implement in your business and like to go big visit us at changecreator.com forward slash go big to grab awesome resources that will help drive your business forward. What’s up, everybody? Welcome back to the Change Creator podcast, I hope you guys are all doing amazing. Another exciting conversation today it’s a bit of a treat. But before we get into that one, I just remind you of our last episode, in case you missed it, we spoke with Christina Jandali, and she is an expert in growing Facebook group. So if you missed that, definitely wanna go back and check it out because not only do we talk about just how to grow your Facebook group and start selling, by building relationships with people in the group, she talks about her journey, you know, to becoming a multi seven figure entrepreneur and just kind of like the stages that she goes through. And as entrepreneurs, we go through this evolutionary process. And so it’s a really great conversation, for multiple reasons. And I think you guys would get a lot of value out of that. So hopefully, you don’t miss that one. So go back, check it out, if you haven’t already. Today, we’re gonna be talking with someone by the name of Michelle Mcglade now, she was 2019 woman a watch, oh, she’s an award winning CEO, best selling author, a speaker, digital marketing expert podcast, I was owner, all these things. And so she has a ton of experience over the past 20 years, building up three successful enterprises. All right. As a coach, she’s worked with a ton of different leaders, to help them really understand how to exit their business, how to start scaling the business, many different angles there. And so, you know, for her success, like the way she approaches leadership with these folks is that success is an inside game. And that leadership of self is the key to actually breaking through to the next level of success in your life, but in your business, right. So she really focuses on this whole inside aspect. And we’re going to talk about how people are hidden and have armor and all kinds of stuff. And it’s really important because 80% of this stuff, guys is is this mental game, right? So really valuable conversations with people like Michelle, and I’m excited about it. So hang in there, we’re going to jump into that conversation in just a minute. We are doing if you’re catching this, this interview earlier on, we are doing a special for Memorial Day. So as you guys probably know, we’ve started our brand studio division. And what that means is we work with clients. So this is a do it for you service. And what we have found is a lot of people were coming to us asking for help to really kind of establish their brands, get their brand strategies in place, you know, who are they really talking to? What are those messages? How do we position them in the market? What is the identity and the image of the brand? How do we make it authentic and powerful, so people can connect, but also, you know, you attract the right people, right? There’s no confusion. And then we set up their website so that they have a high converting website. Right. So you know, there’s no sense of bringing traffic somewhere, that you’re embarrassed to show clients or it’s not set up with the right sales funnels and cash flow systems and things like that. And so we’ve been having a lot of fun working with incredible entrepreneurs doing this. And so for Memorial Day, we, my my grandfather was in World War Two, my father was in Vietnam, and I have all the respect in the world with people who have supported our country with honorable intentions, right? Nobody loves war, hate war, despise it. But I do respect the people who went out there with good intentions and did what they believed was right. And I want to respect that and celebrate that. And I’m going to use this as an opportunity to do something I’ve never done and usually don’t do, which is I’m going to offer 50% off our services between now and June 2. So you book a call. If we’re really great fit, we do a strategy call and we see if we are a good fit to work together. And then you know, we make a decision, right? So let’s let’s let’s move forward, build out this brand and start help you helping you sell more. And so between now and June 2, it’ll be 50% off of those services. But that’s it and we’re only taking six people so we have two spots open for June and four open for July. So that’s it. Alright guys, if you’re catching this after that timeframe, I’m sorry but we’d still love to talk to you. And you can sign up so just go to change credit. com Go to our services, and you’ll be able to book a call on the calendar we can see what’s going on and how we might be able to help you. Alright guys, without further ado, we’re gonna jump into this conversation. Okay, show me the heat

Hey Michelle, welcome to the Change Creator podcast How you doing today?

Michele McGlade 5:07
I am lovely. Thank you so much for having me, Adam.

Adam G. Force 5:11
It’s my pleasure excited to have you here. You know, it looks like a really interesting background. So pin it down for me and everybody just to ground us in, you know, the short version of where you’re coming from and what you got going on today.

Michele McGlade 5:28
Yeah, you know, yeah, the short version of 46 years, right?

Adam G. Force 5:31
That’s right. That’s right. I’m really putting you to the Hemingway test, right?

Michele McGlade 5:35
Yep.I’m a corporate fall out who thought they wanted to own a business gave it a go and ended up being a true entrepreneur. I’ve owned and operated three enterprises. And I love, love, love business and small business and everything business I’ve got, what I learned is that anytime somebody is stuck in life or business, it always has to do with a disconnect between the heart and the mind. And so that is where a passion lies, and a fire lies inside of me. And that is really the type of work that I’m really committed to doing and bringing to the world.

Adam G. Force 6:12
I love it. And so, you know, this comes up all the time. And it’s been years for me, you know, I’m much older than I probably look. And, you know, you can learn all these things, like the strategies, taxes, and there are important parts of that business, right, like to do things the right way and understand. But that mindset, and I think even the mindset is one thing, which kind of leads into this concept of like discipline in your life, and without that discipline and, and I guess understanding, you said, connection between you said, mind and heart is that what you said?

Michele McGlade 6:50
Yeah, yeah

Adam G. Force 6:51
Connection. Yeah. It’s like, what you feel and want, right, I’m gonna let you describe what you mean. And like those desires those dreams, but then connecting it to have like, the mind actually control it. And I always think of like the master with the puppet, the mind is the master and your body is like the puppet, right? We got to say, hey, go, you need to get up in the morning, you need to go do this. You need to work on your stuff. Tell me tell me your your, your feelings and thoughts about the mind and heart connection?

Michele McGlade 7:21
Wow. Well, I got onto that. So first of all, it really actually starts one step back, which is you have to know that I am a high performer, I am somebody who did build a successful career in corporate use that skill set to build a very successful first go at business, only to find out that pushing rocks uphill, wasn’t the way that it was supposed to go. And every time I would get there, I would hit a ceiling, stop myself run myself to exhaustion, and just kept thinking, why can’t I break through? What am I What is it about me, you know, everybody says I’m successful. But I feel like there’s something more I feel like I keep getting stuck, I feel like I keep putting myself back to zero, and doing it over again. And that’s what really led me on the journey about the heart and the mind and, and through my own coaching and consulting just started to see what was happening to me, or had happened to me happened to other people and just beginning to unpack that. It’s so much more complicated than just like imposter syndrome. It’s so much more complicated than just mindset. I think that there’s space in this self transformation. And just like unlocking the complexities of who you are, there’s more space in there to really begin to understand and unfold why we’ve kind of given ourselves these mechanisms and mantras. I like to call them why we have created these personas, and we can’t break out of them. This making sense?

Adam G. Force 8:55
Oh, yeah, yeah,

Michele McGlade 8:56
You’re nodding your head

Adam G. Force 8:58
Because I’m like, I’ve been in that space. Like I’ve I barely read business books anymore. I’m reading more about that whole, like mastering the self kind of concept. Right?

Michele McGlade 9:10
And it’s, it’s um, so once you start like for high performers anyways, because I can only speak about the way I know, once you tear away you Will you take away like the external achieving what’s left is for you to figure out what it what have you been packing and putting armor on around you that you can’t see that is limiting you. But you’ve got to go on that journey for yourself. I believe that we’re all hiding from something, something we’re afraid of something that maybe something that happened to us when we were young that we just, you know, we learned that it wasn’t safe to do it this way. And those are the little things that are deep within that you’ve got to figure out for yourself and once you can kind of get right with that person, the real you in there, that’s when and I’m getting all of my little intuitive, yummy, juicy. And that’s when the real magic comes out. That’s who you are is able to shine.

Adam G. Force 10:09
It’s true. And so tell me a little bit about. So are you tell me the kind of work you’re doing right now just just get clear with people? Are you? Are you coaching people? Like are you doing more hands on work? I just get a little more clarity for me.

Michele McGlade 10:25
Yeah, well, you’re catching me right in a very interesting pivot I’ve been, I’ve been coaching for years and years and years. But I’m very specifically now coming together, I’ve got a framework built off all this experience, right. And I’m coaching and bringing people through the process to stop hiding. And I say, Stop hiding their humanity, and bring their magic to the world. Because at the at the very core of this, what we are holding back is what is makes us human. We’re holding back our emotions, we’re holding back our opinions, we’re holding back, you know, a spiritual connection, or, you know, things about our bodies, we don’t like things that you and I, Adam have, like 100% in common. So we’re just, you know, we’re really just hiding from ourselves. There’s the punch line people, it’s. And so I have a very specific framework that I’m coaching people through at this time.

Adam G. Force 11:23
Yes. It’s interesting. And I know, the more I’ve gotten into this, because you know, I did the same thing I was I was director of strategic marketing at web D had a lot of fun, there was successful start around business as my second business. And I hit blocks. And mine were mostly around financial, I’m like, I’m doing all my stuff. I know all the strategies in the world. I’ve helped brands make, you know, tons of money, all this stuff. When it comes to doing business for yourself, you’re in a very different plane of existence and the way you feel and think and you’re bringing corporate mentality over versus flipping that like a total 180 into entrepreneur mentality. And I hit a block and i the only thing I could, I had to stop blaming all these things and blamed myself, right, which is kind of like what you were saying, right? And so I’m curious if you are what you’re seeing as a common block for people, like, you know, when I hear my wife or friend, they’ll say, Oh, well, I’m not a morning person. I can’t do this. I’m like, I’m in right away. Now. I’m like, yeah, that’s you keep telling yourself that. But that’s is not really, your whatever you want it to be whatever you believe is true is what’s true. The truth doesn’t really matter. Just what you believe is true.

Michele McGlade 12:38
Yes. And what you’re asking for the way I articulate that in my framework, it’s not just what we’re hiding from ourselves. It’s how we keep ourselves there, even though like you were describing, and I was, yeah, I feel the same way. Like I had an awareness that I was being held back, but I couldn’t how if I had the awareness, how could I not see that? What was I doing every day day in and day out? So the answer in the research that I’ve done, mostly, by the way, with high performing women, because that’s just the big network I have, but I believe the gentlemen have this exact as well. They might just articulate it differently. Is I’m too busy. I’m too tired. And it’s easier for you because

Adam G. Force 13:19
Yeah, oh, easier for you because oh, well, you’ve already made a million dollars. So of course your marketing is better. I hear…

Michele McGlade 13:26
You have a corporate background in this it’s easier for you. You know, and then the other one that’s also comes into play is I’m working hard I’m working so hard. This was one of mine. Like I’ll just work harder I’m working hard I Why can’t but now I’m working so hard. I’m exhausted but why can’t I seem to get to where I want to go and so it’s like these become and you really need to once you become aware of it look backwards because you attach these stories believe they’re just stories like a mantra you tell yourself day in and day out. You’re doing it so automatically now, but it was a choice at some point to put on that armor. You put it somewhere it was really good at the time. It kept you very safe. I’m positive did that but it becomes becomes so second nature. Most people don’t even recognize it as a story anymore.

Adam G. Force 14:23
Yeah, no and those all speak volumes, you know, like they stand out like yes, you hear those a lot from people and like one for me is Adam. You’re not detail oriented. Like you you can’t remember birthdays. You can’t do this can’t that that’s just coming from my fan like all through my upbringing. And now I read this book called The Four Agreements. I don’t know if you’ve read that beautiful book. And, you know, he calls it black magic. He’s like when that seed is planted like you’re saying there’s stories which create this armor like a mental armor. And so once that’s planted and you believe that story, I’m not kidding. oriented because I did something when I was young. And then all of a sudden, you’re always told this by yourself and everyone around you. So you believe it and what we believe becomes true. So now everything you that’s the way you behave, right? So it’s like, that’s what you’re getting at. Right? It’s like, and he called it black magic. It’s like you’re under a spell. You’re calling it the armor. And I’m seeing these synergies.

Michele McGlade 15:23
Think about it, I’m introverted.

Adam G. Force 15:26

Michele McGlade 15:26
That. Right? That would be one so that I must not be good at I can’t, you know, like, I must not be good at speaking or I must not be great at parties. Or I’m well, is that true?

Adam G. Force 15:37
Right? Right.

Michele McGlade 15:39

Adam G. Force 15:40
So now let’s go dig a little deeper. So I think we’re, I hope everybody listening is kind of getting into this flow of what Michelle’s kind of digging into which is, you know, we have certain things that we learn that we’re when we grow up, and we tell ourselves that become our truth, because this is just what we start to believe, right? We keep telling, we have our internal stories that we keep telling ourselves. And it’s like, if you can imagine a car getting stuck in the mud and keep spinning the wheels, spinning the wheels, and it’s just getting deeper and deeper and deeper. This is every time you tell that story. Right? You go deeper, it’s harder to get out of it. So the question is, how do we start? Understanding like identifying our own armor? Right? And how do we start taking some steps to course correct? Because that’s not easy.

Michele McGlade 16:35
Yeah, this was a, this was a question on my mind last year, because I it really started to be revealed to me in a much bigger way I would, I’d been talking about this stuff for years. I don’t know about you, Adam. But I’ve hired a lot of people for a lot of money to help me with what’s going up, you know, to clean up my head basically, is what I thought I needed. And for some reason I was last year, like walking myself through this process and such like a natural way. I’m like, What am I doing differently? Because I know all this stuff. But why am I able to be in a space where I can observe myself without judgment, and I can really let some of these things fall away and let more of who I am comfortably come out without fear, you know? So the answer to that goes back to my wellness route. So my first business was in wellness, I own clinics. And so and I’ve always been in the wellness industry, it’s just like alternative health and all that stuff is totally my jam. And what I had been doing last year was doing more, more time in nature, like more time alone, more not like I don’t want people to hear this not exercising and doing cleanses and buying books on those types of things. No, I’m talking about spiritual space is really talking about all this, drill it in. And I also embraced meditation and much like I’m already in the yoga, it’s very meditative for me and all that stuff. But like I was literally exploring meditation, everything from the waking up app, which is a great starter point for your audience, to some really like deep like 10 minute deep breathing types of like all kinds of stuff. And I would journal after that. And what I discovered is I was slowing down and really nurturing and getting grounded within myself and in just a way that I hadn’t before. And that is when I felt like some of this stuff was able I was able to see it more clearly I was able to see it. Because I believe See, here’s what I think we have the power inside of us to kick this in the butt. I mean, therapists they’re great, but I don’t know like why are we in therapy 10 years. Self Help and transformation. They help you be expansive and see, you know, and get inspired. But do they ever help you like the hermit crab, leave your small shell and go out naked and move into the bigger shell? They don’t but I think we can do that for ourselves. But the long this is kind of a long answer to your question, but is that you’ve got to get yourself in the right place. I’m not saying perfection. You know, I’m not saying you know, like hardcore paleo or something. I am just saying you know, when you feel good in your body, and when you’re nurturing your spirit and you need to have a spiritual connection because what I believe is our body we’re all vibration, and our body is a communication tool for us. And so things like for me now it might be different for you Adam or for you listening is that it might be meditation. For me it was like in journaling, which I had embraced in a new way for me it is going out walking in nature for me it is going on like a long drive. Sometimes I get communications if I’m in the shower, you know, but I know you’ve you’ve got to be having a level of awareness, and silence within yourself to to know when those moments are, when they are for you and where they are for you. And when you can get yourself into that place, then you’re ready to start talking about the ways you’re hiding. Because right now, if you’re listening, you’re like, Oh, yeah, I had my emotions, or I had my opinions, you have an awareness, great. But to begin to walk that back and let the armor fall away, you’ve got to take 10 steps back and start on the foundation of you just like in business, you have to have solid foundations, you have to have a solid foundation of you.

Adam G. Force 20:33
Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, there’s a lot there, that’s deep. And so I, which I love, like, that’s, you know, again, that’s where I’m at. And I think that as entrepreneurs listening, what’s gonna happen is, you know, we, and I’ve coached a lot of entrepreneurs, myself through some of our programs, and it’s like, we go through different phases, right, and we become different versions of ourselves. So someone that’s making zero to 10,000 a month, they just started their business, you know, that’s one version, when you’re making 50,000 100,000, you will need to become another version of yourself and break the same thing for a million and up to a million up every time you’re, you’re constantly facing some kind of challenge to break through and become this next person. And I like, I love the conversations that you’re bringing to the table. Because what gets interesting to me, I had a mentor teaching me about like, cause and effect duality, and like really getting into what you would learn reading about metaphysics, right. And when you start looking at life in that way, and seeing yourself like you said, frequency energy, like more molecular, like, you will start noticing there’s laws in the universe. Right, and those laws, if you can abide and understand what they are, and start to buy them, you will understand how to play the game like mentally because you’re going to have certain cause affect the way you are. are you grateful in this world? Are you judgmental? Are you not judgmental, like all these little things, which everyone, I believe today defines as like the non tangible, I don’t take it seriously, it’s Fufu. Those are actually the big, big matzah balls that make a difference.

I feel like I’ve been woo-ey from the beginning. And I always kept running from it, you know, and even when I was in the alternative medicine space, like, like, literally with my business, I, I still didn’t run it run around loud and proud. So I feel like the universe just keeps pushing me there. And now I’m just fully like, yep, that’s the way it works. Like I know to be true, true. And I was thinking about something that came up as you’re talking is that for the social entrepreneur, like you can, you can frame this conversation a little bit different in the sense that this is about self leadership. And if you want to go out and make an impact in the world, you got to get right within yourself, you have, you have a responsibility, and leadership does not start external, it starts internal. And so this is also from me, and a lot of my clients, which are leaders and organizations, that it’s about getting right from within you and how you are showing up in the world that allows your team, you’re the culture of your organization, or even if you’re just a solo social entrepreneur, the people that you’re engaging with in your community, it impacts that.


Michele McGlade 23:21
But it starts with you.

Adam G. Force 23:23
Yeah, you know, and I think that’s such an important point. And so tell me a little bit about your framework, tell me about not you don’t have to give away the secret sauce, you know, but give us the high level, like, love doodles sensitive about each step, like tell us a little bit about the process. So people can say, hey, that’s, that’s interesting, you know, like, I want to I want to get a taste,

I don’t mind giving it away. Because I do think that just having an idea of what what it it’s its simplicity into, you know, it starts with simplicity. And it leads to the complexity of you is basically right, so I, we were already chatting about the first part. So there’s a four part framework that I use with my clients. And the first part is all about the internal navigation systems, we’ve got to get right with yourself. And I talked about some of the ways that are accessible for everybody. There’s an endless number of ways for you to start connecting with yourself. Meditation, breath work, moving the way you move your body, like it’s creating space for your energy, energy. Okay. So that’s the first part. The second part is really all about. It’s about some of the the ways that you’re hiding and creating again, space. You don’t, you don’t facilitate a transformational journey in six weeks. Okay, so I’m not gonna do six, any six weeks, anything that people were talking nine months to a year minimum, right. So, in my framework, when I’m working with people, we’re talking about a two month process of documenting and looking at the ways you’re hiding in an exercise is through observing it and others so that you can then reflect and see within yourself. It’s just it’s that top layer of Cake of the present moment of the wager hiding and learning about it and understanding it. Okay?


Michele McGlade 25:07
The third part of the framework is the real interesting part, because now we’re talking about the pattern complexities. And one of the things you and I didn’t talk about, we talk about what we’re hiding. We talked about how we do it, but it’s also where we do it. And when it’s so it’s differentiating between am I showing up at home versus work with my parents versus my siblings, with my spouse versus my kids, like, you start laying all those pieces out, you can have an infinite number of convert conversations, connections between those points. So the armor is much more than just one layer. We’re talking about unpacking the multiple layers and the patterns that you’ve developed in the person that you’ve developed, depending on where you are. So the third part of the framework is about unpacking that it’s much more than the present moment, but the entire lifetime. Okay? Yeah. Because when you when you can articulate it, and teach it, that means you’ve learned it for yourself. And that’s where the, that’s when it falls away. Yeah. The last part of my framework is really nothing. I don’t have to do anything at that point. But there is a major phase that happens there. It’s about being in a community of fellow hiders, articulating your story clearly to them, so that you can be witnessed in that journey. And they’re doing the same so that you can heal together, there’s something really important that came out of my research of having the community and teaching the community. And what happens is what that what everybody wants, and the transformation at the end is now you are uninhibited, you are more of your true self. You don’t feel like there’s a stuckness that has to come out. You’re more connected within and the articulation of what is next for you is able to flow. Most people when they come in are saying I feel stuck. I have more to give I have something magical inside that wants to come out. Well, yes. But it’s not that you’re trying to figure out what it is. It’s that it’s sitting there and you packed it down so tight. You can’t hear it.

Adam G. Force 27:08

Michele McGlade 27:11
Thank you for this, this is like, Oh, just magical to have this conversation with you.

Adam G. Force 27:17
Yeah, no, I love talking about these things. And I feel like it’s just a lifelong journey of understanding yourself and learning how to manage emotions. And you know, I see people a lot of times getting angry and and you know, we all do it, right. We all do it. We have emotional responses and things like meditation and learning more about mindset has taught me that, you know, like, one thing I’ve always realized is one never blame, complain or justify stuff. Like it’s always on you, right? But it’s also that a situation that’s occurring is not what actually makes us emotional or upset. It’s the way we choose to think about that situation. And it really puts it in perspective that like you’re in control here, like you know, and and the more you get deep on those metaphysical things, you really start seeing how this plays out. When when somebody very intellectual starts explaining that in detail, you’re like, holy shit.

Michele McGlade 28:12
I have a great example for you and your list…

Adam G. Force 28:15
Yeah, fire it up. Yeah

Michele McGlade 28:17
But we do something called the hiding map. And that is the the, you know, the documentation of the journey and want so one of the deep, I’ll share with you kind of how one thing showed up. You said emotions. And Funny enough, in my research, women specifically say that they’re hiding their anger. So I’ll just toss that out there for me. But I grew up so my parents had me in high school. And so I didn’t even live with my parents right away. I lived with my grandparents with my mom, right? And we moved in together. And they were very young. And they were very much like oil and vinegar. And my dad would go out and party and come home. And so what I’m basically trying to paint the picture of is that it was tumultuous. It there was a lot of fighting. And it would upset me, right? I was I would cry, of course. And I was afraid I had fear that you know, at night when I would hear them screaming that they were going to come in so I very early on, learned to hold in my emotions. Because crying wasn’t a lot. You know, crying wasn’t good. You’re being very Don’t cry, and then a fear of explosive emotion. So like I had some strange, strange things around that. And so I just became this very quiet. unexpressive child. Yeah, well, that set me up for a lifetime of how that story. That armor was very protective. Right. It was very protective, but then it didn’t serve me.

Adam G. Force 29:44

Michele McGlade 29:45
I wouldn’t express how I felt.

Adam G. Force 29:47

Michele McGlade 29:47
I wouldn’t ask for what I wanted.

Adam G. Force 29:50
Starts hurting you more than anything.

Michele McGlade 29:52
Well, yeah, like going into the workforce. I didn’t ask or mentioned when I needed help or when I was struggling

Adam G. Force 29:59
And those things can go very unnoticed by the person themselves. You’re saying, well, that’s just how I am. No, it’s not just how you are right? It’s like…

Well, I mean, I would literally, I will I had Fibromyalgia in my 20s because I was so unexpressive and I just tight and everything inside I was got myself sick. Yeah. in the workplace, I ran myself to the ground never asked for help, right? Yeah, my entrepreneurial journey. So this ended up playing out. And you, I mean, now I’m like all mushy, gooey Wui. And like, I’m thinking about like crying, for example, oh my god. Like, if you met me in my 20s, I would have been horrified if a tear was shed in front of you for any reason. Now, I can stand up in front of hundreds of people and I can get really emotional and teary eyed. But it still creeps up that that pattern, that person, that I’ve told myself, that moncho is that if if I do start to cry, sometimes somebody called me out on this once I kind of smile through it, I don’t get like the ugly cry.

Oh, there you go.

Michele McGlade 31:07
I’m aware. Right, I can articulate all the way. That’s just one. That’s just one pattern.

Adam G. Force 31:14
Yeah, and there’s a lot of them. Like,

Michele McGlade 31:19
I’m a master at it, right?

Adam G. Force 31:23
Well, it’s and I want to be respectful of time. But I do want to also ask a business question. So you’ve had three different companies and stuff? I mean, tell me a little bit about your process. You know, I think a place that I like to touch on as far as business goes for people is getting leads closing sales, like business models, especially in the coaching space, do we do groups? Do we do one on ones? How do we model something where we can in the coaching world where we can detach ourselves a little bit and not be so time for money oriented? That’s fine in the beginning, but I have entrepreneurs who are like, well, I can close a call and do the one on one and get those things. But how do I get to the next level of revenue and take on more clients and start? You know, growing that? So I’d like to understand? How do you approach client adoption and leads? And can you share a little bit on the model?

Michele McGlade 32:25
Yeah, well, I’ve tried all of those models. So I just want to let you guys know, this was not like, I think people don’t tell the dirty part of their story enough, you know, like, so yeah, I went into I went from corporate into a local brick and mortar business model. And honestly, I did very well, because I was a business development and partnership person. And that’s what I did. But when I came online, and I started doing the training, the training company, the memberships, the small groups, the one on one, that’s all the stuff you’re talking about. I struggled. I really struggled with that because I love connecting with people in person.

Adam G. Force 33:12
Okay, yeah.

Michele McGlade 33:13
But this was this is what’s interesting. And where I’m going with this is that my entire business development career in corporate, I worked with people all over, I’d have to pick up the phone, this is before zoom, you guys I am a little older, I’d have to pick up the phone, develop relationships get through the gatekeepers, right. So I had something I was doing.

Adam G. Force 33:33

Michele McGlade 33:34
Something I was doing that kind of…So the one thing I want to say, as my cat makes an appearance on this interview, is that you first of all, do not buy into the idea that there’s one business model, and that’s the way to go, you really need to think about who you are, what you love to do in your skill set. Okay. Now, if you want to scale Yeah, I mean, you got to move beyond the one to one. So then hire for your gaps hire for the gaps in your skill set. You know, I think that’s a mistake people make is you do not want a company full of you. But if you do want to scale and you do want to do the group programs, but maybe the group programs aren’t something you love, then you’re going to be hiring coaches to run

So, every time I tried to do somebody else’s recipe, it didn’t work for me, as soon as I just own the fact that I know, I know how to do it. As long as I’ve got the foundations there. I’ve got great ideas. I’ve got ways, you know, that maybe people haven’t tried before. So that’s my advice. I don’t know if that’s what you’re looking for. But, um, in terms of like, I’m just looking at some notes here because I was just doing a talk on the lead gen and like, how do you social and how do I get clients, first of all, and people might want to grab a pen and paper but I’ll just run this down fast for the sake of time I did an hour presentation on it, but how to connect to close is what I called it. And first of all, you’ve got to cultivate, you have to think about what you want to cultivate. So who who do you want to connect with and grow your relationships with what kind of this is like target market stuff, right? But where are the gaps in your network? Maybe you need power partners, I don’t know. But who do you want to grow your network with? This is how you leverage your time because you can’t connect with everybody. And you don’t want to, and why. And to evaluate this on a quarterly basis in your business, because you always want to be growing your network, but they’re the gaps are going to move around. And then separate from that when you’re creating and putting content out there. This isn’t my formula. But it came from my friend Ron Reich’s I want to give him you know, credit for it. But I think it’s really genius that the content that you’re putting out there needs to speak to the people that you want to, you know, grow your business around. But this is what he says, first of all, you got to put content out there that teaches people who you are, like, what makes you you, what are your little quirks and you’re in geniuses and superpowers, then you need to put content out there that communicates your value, so that you can separate the people who are going to resonate and not resonate more quickly. You’re already doing a lead gen process and a funnel process there by communicating your value. And then and then of course, sharing your framework and you know, the transformation that you offer, or, you know, a process that you’re going to bring people on. And and make it intimate. I don’t like the one too many sort of stuff. I like the when I’m connecting. So I’ll give an example. Last year, I wanted to grow my network of professional working women. I was coming back into the podcasting space. So I was creating a new show where I interviewed women CEOs

Adam G. Force 37:01
Yeah, yeah…

Michele McGlade 37:02
I’d put the content out there, I would see who was engaging with the content, you’re probably doing this too, I would, I would engage in it with their tribe around the interview, we created the content we created. And then I would add them to my network and bring them into a direct message or outreach or a one on one coffee. So super intimate. And that’s what so that’s what I’m great at. Right? That’s what I’m great at is the intimacy and the deeper relationship, not as I mean, the one to many is the podcast interview right?

Adam G. Force 37:36
Not paid.

Michele McGlade 37:39
What would happen for me is I was always in sales roles, but I’m not that great of a closer but when I do it this way, when I make it intimate and I let people know who I am and my values, not just what I’m selling, by the time I get them into like a coffee chat or sharing about my framework or sharing about the work that I could help them with most of the sellings done most of the things done. So that’s my I just laid out for you my lead gen process because I do really high level executive coaching. So I don’t want or need a lot of clients. So I’m not…

Adam G. Force 38:10
Yeah, yeah. Which is nice.

Michele McGlade 38:14
I hope that anyone listening to this, that you hear that I am aligning it to who I am, that’s the most important thing.

Adam G. Force 38:23
I love that because I think there’s a lot of people out there who they see all these things, and they want to copy them, like call that a recipe. And it very rarely works the same for a number of reasons, you don’t really know what’s going on under the hood with those companies. There’s different things that come into play with timing, who their audience already is, and like all these things. So you just can’t do the same thing. Because you just don’t have all the same, you know, pieces. The only thing I think that can be copied is key, like core principles, which is like what you’re saying, like do something that aligns to and yeah, like, you know, speak to the audience clearly and have certain types of content, that’s fine. But certain, like, I’m going to copy this, I’m going to do it this way, because that’s what they do. Like, I agree, you got to do you.

Michele McGlade 39:14
Yeah, I think that you know, the folk, you know, the focus of cultivating your focus. I think the way the creating the content I laid out is really powerful. I’ve seen that work as a recipe.

Adam G. Force 39:25
Oh, that’s great. Yeah.

Michele McGlade 39:27
By the time I said, you’re connecting, and you’re connecting one to one and doing the one to one outreach, a lot of people don’t want to do that because they don’t like putting themselves out there and they don’t like being rejected. And this is just part of business so that by the time you’re closing, this is the other thing I want to say is it makes it the set, you’re already 80% of the way there, but if I am what I sorry, I lost my train of thought which haven’t

Adam G. Force 39:51
Oh, been there, been there

Michele McGlade 39:53
Here’s the tip that I do want to say about closing because I think this is also a recipe and it’s important is that You know, that’s the formula I use day in and day out, week in and week out. But when I’m not if I was launching something, and I am actively, like, let’s say, filling a mastermind that’s going to launch in June, then I am I want to give this stat I am actively selling, I need to be reaching out one to one to people and getting them on the phone 10 to 20 people a day. So most people aren’t willing to go to that extent and put themselves out there and get the rejection. But I think you all need to hear it. Because that’s how much they’re doing. You know?

Adam G. Force 40:32
No, I love that you brought it up. And I love the concept. I like to reverse engineer.

Michele McGlade 40:37

Adam G. Force 40:38
I want to get 10 new clients this month. Okay, how many calls? Do I need? Oh, to get that many calls? How many people do I need to reach out to? Or like, what do I do in my facebook group, I connect with people, but there are numbers that make it reality, right. And you can’t expect to get 10 clients because you reached out to like 15 people, you’re gonna reach out to probably 400 people, some of them will get back to you. Some of them book a call, some of them become clients. And you reverse engineer, I’ve always found that to be the most helpful. So I could be like, Yo, I got to reach out to at least 11 to 15 people a day for now. Right? And I used to that’s the kind of stuff that and I was like listen to this guy. I don’t know if you know john Lee Dumas I interviewed him I was on his show and stuff. And I follow him. I like he’s such a cool dude. He does a lot of great stuff. And he was he had his new book come out this year. And, you know, I asked people who I coach, I asked entrepreneurs, I’m like, Alright, so you’re gonna start doing a market, okay. I’m like, well, maybe get out on some podcasts and stuff. And we’re talking about numbers. I find that when I go on a podcast, I get nice spikes and everything, right? clients, all that stuff. So I’m like, why don’t you think about this getting out on podcast? I’ll give you my one sheet or you can make your own, copy it and pitch it to people? How many do you think you should get out in a month? What would be a high number for you? And they’d be like, I don’t know if I can get on like five to 10 in a month. That would be good. I’m like, Yeah, what do you think John Lee Dumas, how many shows you think he went on per month to promote his book? over 125 a month? He was on? I mean, that’s several a day.

Michele McGlade 42:08
That just I think people really need to see, you know, and John’s running a real business that’s profitable. And he’s been growing that I know, a little bit behind the scenes there. And he is a really nice guy, by the way.

Adam G. Force 42:20

Michele McGlade 42:21
I don’t know him super well, but I’ve heard him speak and things. And I think, you know, yeah, I just anytime you you want to get yourself into this negative Nelly thinking or what they have that you don’t have to remember, you can’t see under the hood, you don’t know what’s really going on.

Adam G. Force 42:38
Of course

Michele McGlade 42:39
And at the end of the day, it is it can be a numbers game. That’s why I wanted to put that number out there. I wanted people to understand that, you know, even after, however long I’ve been entrepreneurial over 10 years, it’s still have to do that.

Adam G. Force 42:53
Still do it

Michele McGlade 42:54
Yeah, the foundations are always the same new business books will keep coming out. But the foundation’s never changed because they work. And my thing is, is business is just people. So is the more I can just connect and be myself and let them be themselves. magical things happen. They always do.

Adam G. Force 43:14
That’s it. And if you know those foundations, then it goes back to your point of you don’t have to copy a specific model from somebody, you could do whatever model you want. Just follow those principles, understand people psychology, how it works, you know.

Michele McGlade 43:28
And work on you and just be show up as your best self. And when you’re not get down to the Get down and under the hood and see what’s going on.

Adam G. Force 43:38
Yeah, when you know, and this will wrap up here I can talk and talk and talk. But I one thing I always remember too is like people like oh, it didn’t work out. And I did all this stuff. And I’m not getting any any money for like a month or two months. And I’m like, Whoa, like, one how many people visited your sales page or whatever you’re doing? And it would be like a very small number, right? So you can’t even really judge it on that. But then the other thing is, it’s like people like oh, my campaign failed. So I’m like, bummed out. And they they would get doubt and all this stuff. I’m like, you know, like guys like Milton Hershey, who went bankrupt, like five or six times, banks, when you give them a loan, this guy kept going and going like a maniac. He’s not the only story like that. There’s a million of them. And like, some of the greatest people today with the greatest businesses, they fail. Like even the woman who wrote Harry Potter, she was rejected by 12 publishers, you know, like, after six wouldn’t most people be like, Oh, well, I guess this is no good.

Michele McGlade 44:32
No good after one?

Adam G. Force 44:34
Right? Exactly.

Michele McGlade 44:35
So it’s like that one person tell you that your idea is bad.

Adam G. Force 44:40
No way. All I Ever think is don’t ever change your destination. Just you might change your approach.

Michele McGlade 44:47
That’s right. Well, I’ll share this tidbit. It’s it I did the whole as I mentioned the online courses treat. bishops of course I had the funnels. It took me two years to master that to get it to like the seven to 10k A month, because I was great at business, but I knew nothing about digital and content marketing. So I had to go to school on that. And I made some bad investments. I paid some bad. You know, I hired some wrong people, which happen. Two years.

And that’s not even the bad two years. Geez.

No, and the only reason I broke it is because here’s what it is. I built the wrong business. I didn’t love that model. So I was trying to follow somebody else’s formula.

Adam G. Force 45:27

Michele McGlade 45:28
And I got it to work. But I didn’t love that model. It just wasn’t me.

Adam G. Force 45:32
Yeah. Listen, I think that’s a good one to wrap up on. appreciate all your energy and insights today, just sharing your story and talking about the mental game and stuff like that. So, again, great talking you with Michelle

Michele McGlade 45:47
Could I invite your listeners to…

Adam G. Force 45:49
I forgot to let you…Yes, yes. Yes. Where do people find you? And where do they connect with you and learn more and all that stuff?

Michele McGlade 45:56
Yes. Well, my name is pretty unique. So you can just find me Michelle McGlade. I’m mostly on LinkedIn, MichelleMcLean.com but I was thinking if the hiding conversation was really resonating for you, I’ve got an assessment. It’s unhideyourmagicquiz.com. And you might just enjoy digging in a little bit deeper by taking me by taking the quiz.

Adam G. Force 46:21
Okay, we’ll put that in the show notes for people. I just wrote it down. So unhide your magicquiz.com? You guys can check out Michelle. How do you pronounce your last name again? It is Glade? Yes, like McGlade. Yep. McGlade. Perfect. All right, Michelle. Thanks again. Really appreciate it.

Michele McGlade 46:41
Thank you so much, Adam.

Adam G. Force 46:46
Thanks for tuning into the Change Creator podcast. Visit us at Change creator.com/gobig to get access to free downloads and other great resources that will drive your business forward.

Christina Jandali: Growing Your Facebook Group and Selling

Listen to our exclusive interview with Christina Jandali:


Facebook groups are becoming more and more popular. But how do we build the right audience and start selling to them? We connected with expert, Christina Jandali, to find out. She has worked her way up to becoming a multi-seven figure entrepreneur and Facebook Groups are her superpower.

More About Christina:

Christina Jandali is a confidence-boosting, cash-creating Business Growth Strategist who helps coaches and course creators build a raving fan base and produce scalable profits by hosting a free Facebook group. She is a self-made millionaire who started her business from ground zero during maternity leave from her corporate job when she decided it was time to build her own dreams, not someone else’s. She’s since worked with thousands of entrepreneurs across the globe to create their own predictable cash flow machines. Christina was featured in Forbes, The Huffington Post, and Evercoach.

Grab her FREE special offer for Change Creators today > deliveryourgenius.com/adam

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Transcription of Interview

(Transcribed by Otter.ai, there may be errors)

Adam G. Force 0:03
Welcome to the Change Creator podcast where entrepreneurs come to learn how to live their truth, get rich and make a massive difference in the world. I’m your host, Adam Force co founder, Change Creator and co creator of the captivate method. Each week we talk to experts about leadership, digital marketing and sales strategies that you can implement in your business and like to go big, visit us at changecreator.com/gobig to grab awesome resources that will help drive your business forward. Hey, what’s going on everybody? Welcome back to the Change Creator podcast, this is your host Adam Force excited that you’re here today. We have a real treat for you. We’re going to be digging into how we grow our Facebook groups, but also so much more in a conversation with Christina Jandali. She is a multi seven figure entrepreneur. She’s been through it all, folks. Okay. So we got a ton of experience of her whole growth process of how she got there. We’re going to talk about that stuff. And we’re going to talk about Facebook groups, because this is a really popular and growing area where you can build intimate relationships, right? So, you know, we’re all about branding and storytelling and all these things here at Change Creator because we want you to win the hearts of your audience. And part of that process is how we’re communicating our message like, Well, how do we communicate and build relationships, we don’t need a million people following us, we just need some really good loyal customers. And that could be a small number of reoccurring buyers, and that makes our businesses successful. So we’re gonna dig into a lot of this stuff with Christina today. Now, if you missed the last episode, so Bernard Schroeder, he is a branding legend. So excited to have had the chance to talk with him. And, you know, we get into all kinds of stuff. He He’s the guy that launched Amazon, Yahoo, Pura vida, so many big brands, I mean, and now they’re iconic, right? But back then he had no idea he didn’t even know he said, You know, like, he had no idea what Yahoo was, he didn’t know what Google I’m sorry, Amazon was and all that kind of stuff. It was just all fresh. They built those brands, right. So tons of good insights and conversation and takeaways there for you guys in that episode. So go back, check it out. Um, yeah, so one of the other things is we have our June, opportunity open. So for our brand studio, this is a new initiative, a new division of the company, we have been building brands for years and helping people convert more sales on their websites and get those clear path to purchase and things like that. And so if you are looking for help, and you want to build a powerful brand that people can fall in love with and be memorable, but also start selling more on your website, you know, good user experience, clear path to purchase, you know, reach out to us book a call. So we have our brands do do you go to Change Creator calm, you’ll see our services there. And you can just book a call, there’s some more information, obviously on the page about it, and on some of our portfolio shots and things like that. But you know, no trickery here, we get on the call, the purpose of the call, is to have a strategic discussion where I will personally talk with you to diagnose your business, I want to ask you questions, and just find out, are we a good fit to work together, we only take four people per month. So June is open at this point, we got a few calls lined up, we got things you know, they go quick, all right. But we’re very selective because we only work with four people. And that’s because we want to give full attention. All right, and we want to make sure we give you everything you need. We work with you closely we give you strategic insights, coaching, how to really create this process that works for you. Now, the important part of it is you want to have an established product, at least a proof of concept, meaning you have sold something, service, a ecommerce product, whatever it is. And if you have that proof of concept at least then we’re ready to use branding and good website design to accelerate your sales. But if you haven’t gotten a proof of concept, you just have an idea you haven’t sold anything, then that should be your focus start selling we shouldn’t be focusing on website designing and branding all these things just yet. So we want to make sure you’re taking the right steps at the right time. Okay, so guys, you can either go to Change Creator calm, find our services, or just go to studio dot Change Creator calm, and you’ll go to our brand studio and we can have a conversation, see if we’re a good fit by the end of that, that chat. We’ll have a sense to make a decision like Should we move forward together or not? And that’s what it’s all about. Okay, so we want to connect with you guys and help you using our abilities in that space. Okay. All right. Let’s dive into this conversation with Christina and see what she has to say, hey, show me the heat. Hey, Kristina, welcome to the Change Creator podcast How you doing today?

Christina Jandali 4:39
I am great. Thanks for having me.

Adam G. Force 4:41
Yeah, and I appreciate it. I’m glad to connect and have discovered the work that you’re doing. You have a very lively website. You know, it has a good vibe. So it looks like you’ve done a lot of great things. So I’m excited to dive in. I know there’s a lot of people in our audience who are, you know, trying to figure out the coaching world and a lot of the things that you’re already have paved your path with. So we’ll dive into those things. But before we do, let’s just maybe get into a little background. I like to know, like, what’s going on like now? Like, what’s the most like, what’s the what’s going on in your world these days? And then how do we get there? Like, what’s the background?

Christina Jandali 5:19
Yeah. So today, I have the opportunity of running a multi, multi seven figure online education coaching company, helping online entrepreneurs grow and scale and more specifically, using Facebook groups to be building their audience and be converting their leads into buyers. That’s kind of a little bit about where you know where I am today. And I know often times I was like, Well, how did you ever get involved in Facebook groups? And why is that became the thing. And so for me, it actually kind of stemmed out of frustration of it, in the sense of things were not working, and there’s got to be a better way. And why were things happening so slow? Well, it seemed like everyone else online was having the most success imaginable. And here, I was kind of plugging away slowly, bringing in a trickle and thinking that there’s got to be a better way. And and so it was through that two things failing and not working, that I realized that I was really missing that connection with my people, which had me start my facebook group. And then I had a massive financial breakthrough in that first month, and really knew that I was onto something.

Adam G. Force 6:24
First month. Okay, that’s interesting. Let’s back into that a little bit. So you said multi, seven figures now. So that gives us a good sense of where you’re at. And, you know, I think we all can feel the pain of a slow roll. And, you know, trying things and them not working, or we think they’re not working, and we don’t have the patience to wait and we start doing other things. You know, like, I love Malcolm Gladwell tipping points your mind to like, you know, stick with it. So tell me a little bit about the earlier days, because I think there’s a lot of relatable insight here for people listening, just to like, tell me how you were feeling when it was really slow? And what were some of the steps that you started taking to that you felt kind of like, broke the cycle, like started giving you hope? You know?

Christina Jandali 7:21
Yeah, so for me, you know, in the beginning of like, I think it’s the Getting Started part, that’s even part of the challenge. In the beginning, it’s just like, starting with that idea. And for me, I remember was when my daughter was born. And I was working in a corporate career, and I had a successful corporate career. But I just, I knew that I was not wanting to ship her off to daycare and not be around for her as she was growing up. But I also really wanted her to create a life that she was fired up about. And I realized like that, even though I had all the boxes checked in my life, I had the husband, the new baby, the house money in the bank, there was still that piece of me that was felt like it was missing something. And so I made a commitment that I was, I knew that kids are gonna learn so much more from what we do, not what we say. So I made a commitment to her that I was going to pave the way but it wasn’t actually until my son was born, that I actually had the courage to get started. And I think that just there’s so many things that go in our minds, like, what should I do? And who can I help? And can I really do this, and Jeez, that’s not very safe. And it’s not very secure. And there’s so much unknown and especially after building up a career in a totally different aspects, like, well, am I ready yet? Can I do this and I think that that period of time was probably some of the most challenging because it was just so much easier to work through in your own beliefs to be able to like hit go and get started. And then once I got started, I was I got a client here and there. And but it just, I remember I would go get dressed up and I go to networking events in in Vancouver, I live in Canada, and I would go into the city and so it’s probably about 3040 minute drive for me, depending on traffic and I would get dressed up, I’d have to leave my babies. And then I would go to these networking events and I get these business cards and I’d you know, grab one of them and I come in and I’d enter them one by one a couple each time into my autoresponder like this is not gonna work so well like this is gonna take a long time. And it was really humbling coming from a career where I’d established myself to somewhere where no one knew who I was. And I was starting from ground zero and had to kind of prove myself so to speak and write and and and develop some sort of authority when I didn’t really believe that I was led to begin with. And as even though I started getting a client here and there was nothing really consistent. And I really remember just taking like an honest look at Okay, I had this two sheets of paper in front of me I had one that was been like, my goals that I was going to set and how many programs I was going to sell at whatever price like this is what I’m going to do this my plan. And on the other sheet of paper was my actual numbers that I generated. And they were nowhere nowhere near being the same Yes, yeah. And I knew it, but I hadn’t really had the courage to really look at it. And like, okay, let’s be real here. There’s a problem. Like there’s a breakdown, this is not working. And I remember just thinking like, maybe this isn’t for me, maybe I should take the maybe we should go back to having a job like, what is it? You know, and I knew that that wasn’t a possibility that I, my reason for why was so much more important than that. And I decided to look back saying like, well, how did I create success before my corporate world? Like, why was that not transferring over? Why was I failing so bad? And when it came to business, and I realized that one of my mentors had once told me, we were sitting down for lunch. And I said to her, what is like, what’s the key to like, what’s the key to success? Like, you’ve been doing this a long time, she was near retiring. She’d been in the financial industry, which is where my background is from. And she said, you know, Christina, like, I can tell you what this says, and being like, Okay, this is gonna be so good. Like, yeah, I’m on the edge of my seat, like, you’re gonna give me the goods. And she says to me, Christina, the key to success is building relationships. Oh, I want all of that what I was hoping to hear. But I sat with it. And I remember in that moment, where I was in that, you know, in that funk of realizing, how do I get out? I went back to that conversation, I thought, well, how am I actually really cultivating and building relationships with people right now? And I’m not. And so how can I do that online? I don’t want to be going in person, I want to have freedom. I want to have time, that was the whole reason for starting this. I don’t want to be, you know, strapped to a desk all day and, and strapped to a computer. And I realized, well, how can I do this online, in a more leveraged way? And that’s when I realized I could start a community and start a Facebook group, and bring only people in and be able to connect with them and see who’s on the other side. Because if you send an email, you don’t like, oh, who’s on the other side? Do we know them? You don’t really have that relationship with that you don’t it’s like, feels like it’s one sided? Yeah. So that month that I started my facebook group, I did $30,000 of like cash money received in the bank. I was like, Whoa, this relationship thing kind of works.

Adam G. Force 12:07
And so let’s just pause it for a second. So I’m sure people are wondering, Well, wait a minute, wait a minute, what did you do in that Facebook group? How did you make $30,000? So can you break that down for a little bit for us? Like, what did you do for the group that you feel contributed to it working to really open your eyes there? I know you’re talking about relationships. And just people are looking for those strategies of Okay, so I have a group, but what do I do with it? How do I operate it? How do I make money from it, like, you know, so curious if you can just dig into that a little bit for people.

Christina Jandali 12:39
So I actually started, when I started my group, I said to myself, my only focus for this first month is going to be on growing my group, if I’m not going to stop doing anything else in my business that has not related to growing the group, that’s my only point. So if my point is to grow the group, that means I have to create a space where people actually want to show up to, it’s gonna have to, I have to have a reason to invite people to the group, there’s going to like I have to do that. So. So I would set myself like a 24 hour goals, 72 hour goal one week goals, like numbers that I would want to get. And I was really committed to getting my first 500 members because I felt like that would be the benchmark of like having an engaged community enough members coming in. So I made that as like my number one priority. And one of the things that I learned when I was in corporate was also always have something to invite people to write. So I was always thinking like, well, what can I do? What am I going to invite people to? Okay, is this working? And so I was just focused on serving. And I know this sounds funny, because sometimes I was like, and I don’t agree with like, just give out good value, and people are gonna buy that stuff. I don’t believe that, because we have some big offers. And the thing was sales don’t happen on their own.

Adam G. Force 13:43

Christina Jandali 13:44
But when you do create a community, and you focus on getting to know every single member, and you’re cultivating those relationships, and you’re listening to what people want, and you’re asking them questions, and you’re understanding them, and you’re finding out what, where they’re getting stuck, and what’s making them tick, and what’s going on in their life. And you really truly do care about them. And they feel seen and heard, they’re gonna tune in and pay attention to what it is that you’re going to share. And they’re going to have an a much deeper level of trust with you because they feel safe with you. Sure. And so creating that environment now I was selling private coaching at the time. So it was I think my price point was about $5,000 at the time when I was doing that, so it’s not huge volume and yes, as to get to $30,000. It wasn’t a low rate offer. But it made it so that one yes would definitely lead me forward. And so I did a challenge, a five day challenge. And I forgot to make an offer because I didn’t like selling and that’s how I did the five day challenge. I didn’t even make an offer. And then someone actually reached out to me saying, Hey, is there a way I can work with you? And I’m like, Oh, geez, I didn’t make an offer. I should do this again. So like right after I did another new challenge I like now I can actually make an offer and I’m going to invite people to come work with me because that’s why I’m here. And so the this the sales came in on the back end of that that first person on that first challenge that came out to me, which that was that was like, you know, certainly not not my doing. The second one came from me actually making offers and the rest of the sales came in from me just having dialogue with the members in DMS, and, if appropriate, making invitations for them to hop on a call with me.

Adam G. Force 15:17
Alright, so I’m gonna get, we’ll go a little deeper for people here. And I’m curious on how you approach this, which is, they’re gonna think, Okay, great. So you did a challenge got to sales. That’s cool. Love, it all makes sense. I like the intimacy like building the relationships. You know, we’re all about that. We love storytelling and branding for the same reasons, like really connect with people. resignate. So when you’re doing this, when you’re approaching Facebook groups, which is getting more and more popular, what is the title of the group? What is the, the topic for the challenge? And then how does it tie in to the offer? Like, is there a synchronicity between these things that really made it work like, like that whole pre framing them, setting them up to get the sale? Like, you know, it’s like, you’re coming in this group for this? I’m gonna challenge on this. And now it’s gonna make sense because you’re ready to work with me. And that’s what you’re helping them with. Right? You’re helping them get ready to work with you.

Christina Jandali 16:16
Yes. So today, if I was training someone, I would definitely teach them to tie things together so that they leading into the next from the wisdom of realizing, but for me at the time, and I think the landscape changes, right. And so the online market space has gotten more sophisticated, which means that there’s more people doing it, which means that we need to be more clear as to like, where we’re guiding people, because there’s too much noise in their their time, their energy, their attention is being called in multiple different directions all the time. So we it’s important that we’re really specific and clear and bringing those people for now, in the beginning, I’d love to say, that’s how I had it figured out. But I was like I had my group was called the sassy successful entrepreneurs Facebook group. And at the time, I was really focused on helping corporate women transition, because that’s what I had done.

Adam G. Force 17:09
Okay, yeah,

Christina Jandali 17:10
that felt aligned. And so I thought this is going to be the supportive place where I get to bring these other women that are kind of in that transition, be able to go through that experience. And and so as I was, as I was going through I, I think that one of my challenges, the first one was based on visibility. And I gave way too much information. I mean, I packed in probably like an eight week course in five days, and I’m like, let’s go. Drinking from the firehose, I can’t handle this. And I was like, yeah, that was too much. Okay, we got to learn. I get to learn from that. And then I did another one, because I actually did three challenges back to back over six weeks. So one was on, one was on visibility. One was on I think discovery calls or getting discovery calls, I think was about getting enrollment calls booked. So I was always thinking, What am What have I been able to do on something that I feel like I’ve gained on that I can help support someone else. And sometimes we get like lost in that we have to be like, 10 light years ahead of someone to be able to serve them. And it’s like, no, if you’ve just been able to do something and accomplish something, like share that share the journey and bring other people along so they can learn from what you just learned. So fresh, and for you. So

Adam G. Force 18:24
I just ultimately, like a piece of what you coach, right? So it’s like a small piece. Like if they work with you as a coach, like discovery visibility, that’s probably all part of what you would coach them with. Right?

Christina Jandali 18:36
Yeah, absolutely. So so it was just like, you know, a little piece a little piece now. Today, you know, when I’m when I’m, we use pop up groups, and today, the group’s called grow your group. Because that’s typically what we’re doing there. Yes, there’s a great group training series. And there’s a leaving a kick ass Facebook group program. So everything is very specific and leading to that. And we rinse and repeat. And we get to do it over again. And that’s very much the focus of it. But back then it was like, I was still figuring out like, what I want to talk about, did that work? Did that not work? Did that land today like teaching that to people?

Adam G. Force 19:11
That’s interesting. Yeah. And, you know, I think there’s some, it some people overdo this idea of like, yes, you have to give value, right? And the free value concept, right? I believe in giving over delivery for a paid offer. But when it comes to the free value, do you find that it’s more overwhelming for people like you don’t get into the house of doing something? It’s more about like if you want to, let’s say you’re saying you want to be more successful and make money, you’re going to teach them why they need visibility, why they need to discover people a certain way. So the whys and the watts and things like that. So what what is your thoughts around how we position our approach to offering that free value?

Christina Jandali 19:57
So this is such a great question. concepts in question. And you know, we’re also often told like talk about talking about the weapon the lion don’t get sorry to talk about the the other weapon, the why and then go and give them the how when they actually invest with you. Yeah. And quite honestly, I’ve often struggled with like thinking, Okay, how does that work, but what I’ve realized is this, because I’ve always been in the perspective, like I want to give as much and I want to support his people as much. But there’s a difference between teaching a how, and giving them a snippet of a how, versus like having them drink from the fire hose, and giving them so many houses that they don’t even know what fits where and how it fits together, right. And so I think that you want to have, you want to have one core piece of something that is juicing on a how that’s building their belief with themselves, that they can do it, that’s giving them an answer to question that helps them see how it’s possible for them. But it’s not giving all of the things that they’re gonna have to do. And I think what’s most important when we’re going through challenges or campaigns or when you’re with your content, is helping people, helping people shift people’s perspective, to go from the struggling perspective of where things aren’t working, and the things that are standing in their way and the stories that they’re telling themselves or the limitations that are showing up in their life. And versus like the possibility of what gets to get there. And if you can help them see why they’re struggling and help them see why they haven’t got the results and why they’re not getting across there. And if you can articulate that to them, they’re gonna be totally sold on wanting to do business with you, because they’re gonna feel like you get them and that perspective shift is way more valuable than giving someone five steps to something.

Adam G. Force 21:42
Right? Is that a no, it’s, and it is, it’s not an easy thing. I think for most people to figure out how to do that there’s, I guess, certain ways of approaching that kind of content and stuff. So you know, here we are, you got your 30,000. And you know, so where do we go? Where do you go from there to start? I guess, let’s say now you have proof of concept, right? So it’s like, how do we start scaling?

Christina Jandali 22:07
So I would love to say that was like the moment that everything just took off and scaled from there. But the next month, what happened?

Adam G. Force 22:15

Christina Jandali 22:16
No, no, this part. No, I am kidding. Next month, I got so in my head about Wow. Like, how did this happen so easily? Because I wasn’t focused on the money. I wasn’t focused on monetization, I was focused on serving and connecting and building those relationships. And I was like, Whoa, like, Can I really be that easy? Like, did I just make that much and I got so much in my head about it. That, you know, I don’t know if anyone who’s listening has had this experience where it feels like you just had this new one. And then it feels like you go backwards, like 10 steps. And so my second month in my facebook group, again, it was selling one to one coaching. So I was doing enrollment calls, I had seven teen knows, in a row 17 enrollment calls. And they all said no.

Adam G. Force 23:01
Interesting. So what do you think happened?

Christina Jandali 23:05
So I think it was definitely in my perspective and my thinking, right, I was very much in my head and then fear and, you know, we create what we think. And so if we think that it’s not until I started questioning my value and questioning, was this a fluke? What if I get found out and you know, what if I can’t do this again, and all those things that are coming up, right? And then I remember when I shifted my perspective, and I said to myself, remember, I was talking staying one step ahead of your people, like so that you’re teaching them on along the journey. I remember saying to myself, Christina, what when you get to the other side of this, you’re now going to be able to help your clients move through the challenges that come through as they go and experience this. And so I get to go through this so that I can understand and feel their pain, and understand the experience of going backwards and help them navigate through how to get to the other side. And just that shift in perspective, within a couple of days of shifting that perspective. I actually didn’t and I’d love to say it was tactical doing the same things. Those that shift in perspective that ended up getting a yes coming in and just rebuilding that confidence and sometimes we get slapped down knocked down in our confidence gets, you know, it looks like someone pops the confidence pops pops our confidence and we end up going flat and and and so it was like that just that shift in perspective and also really taking a look at it saying like, you know what, I’m fully committed to this no matter what. And so what this happened, does it mean anything about me, doesn’t mean anything about anything else, like suck it up, pull up your big girl pants, take it seriously. And let’s look at your business, your Facebook group as a business tool that you can use and get out of all of the other stuff that’s not working and let’s just focus on what is and and and lead from that place.

Adam G. Force 24:52
Yeah, that doubt is a big, a big Matsu ball for people like you go through 17 calls in a row and if you’re not closing, you know the one thing that I’ve learned over the years is just, you got to look at a bigger data set. It’s like you making decisions on these, like 17 calls is not a lot of calls, like people do 1000s of calls you 19. So like, in the bigger perspective, you had at least 30 to 50 calls and no one buys, you might say maybe my offers no good, right. But you already had five proof of concept anyway. So yeah, I think I see a we coach some, you know, entrepreneurs too. And it’s like, I see that happen a lot. Well, I didn’t have any sales this month. I’m like, Alright, but what about the six month window? what’s what’s your your close rate? They’re like, in an average, right? And it makes a big difference. Oh, wow. I guess it is actually working. So it’s a really great point that you made, and it does, I think you have that confidence pop, right? It’s it hurts. Yeah. Yeah, it’s not easy. It’s not easy. So. Okay, so you know, that’s interesting. So that’s what happened the next month? And I guess when How does like if you are a coach, and you’re getting like a 5000? car, that means you’re spending a fair amount of time working with somebody? How many people can you really take on at once? I think what people don’t understand is how do you go from the all in like hands on work where it takes a lot of your time. So time for money, almost kind of concept? And what’s the business model look like to start scaling that kind of thing, so that you can take yourself out of it more?

Christina Jandali 26:28
Yeah, great question. I mean, I think it’s having working one on one long term, does it it’s gonna lead to no time and a glorified job, ultimately.

Adam G. Force 26:37

Christina Jandali 26:38
So but it I mean, it’s, it’s super valuable, it’s a great place to start. Because you develop your process, and you develop your skill set.

Adam G. Force 26:45
And you have to start there. It’s like, you have to, like, get in there. And like, do it before you can do anything else. Really,

Christina Jandali 26:52
definitely. I’ve always liked it. It’s like, it’s like that step that stepping stone and, and so for me, when I remember, I was getting into thinking, Okay, I want to leverage more of my time. And I started my very first program. And it was a group program. And I remember I thought, Okay, how am I going to fill it right? How am I going to fill it? What am I going to do? And so I made this, and I remember, like, and it’s funny, because we just grow so much, right? And just to give perspective, it took me five years to build a seven figure company in the online space. And so this is the first like, this is the beginning. This is early on. This is like the first year and so I knew that I was wanting to sell this group coaching program. And I remember thinking to myself, I paid someone to set up the sales page on a website, and, and they were like, a developer person that did it. My I have no idea what they’re doing. And I paid this money. And I’m like, if I could just make the money back so that I’m not in the hole. I’m good. And I was working with a coach at the time. And she’s like, Christina, come on. I’m like, Well, I just I don’t I don’t mean to, like I was in this conversation. Like, I don’t want to charge and I feel bad. And I’m just learning and, and she says, Okay, let’s stretch, let’s stretch a little bit like, what can we do here? And I said, Okay, you know, maybe, and I said, Okay, I want to have I’d really like to have at least five people. And then she’s like, Okay, what will be bigger stretch than that? And I’m like, well, 10 people, she’s like, okay, let’s focus on getting between five and 10 people into this group coaching program. And this, this, I don’t know, so, okay, great. I’m gonna focus on five to 10 people, I was so broad with my, my niche at the time, like I yes, I started this group, but I also was in these, you know, I was in these different areas of, of niches in my, in my physical environment, like when I go to networking events, and so on, I would do that. So I remember having all this idea that I was going to do this webinar, and I was going to convert all these people and other buyers were to come in there and I did this webinar and nobody bought. And I was so bummed out thinking like, oh, but I said, Okay, now I’m committed to this. And so my very first program, I still laugh, I don’t know how I managed to pull off people from all different sorts, but I had financial advisors in there, I had a photographer in there, I had an artist in there, I had a mortgage person in there, like the whole gamut of like, different mix of people interested and I just remember thinking, well, I can help anyone and so I just like I really the first that first time is like I just hustled through relationships, connection, outreach, talking to people to fill it in, it felt, oh my gosh, oh, my gosh, this is exhausting. And that took me a while to even get up the courage to go and do it again. And that particular program it was used to be called 90 days to getting books and getting paid and it was focused on helping new coaches get their their pink first paying clients coming in and establishing their business offer. And but I just wasn’t excited about it. And no and I just kind of shifted down to that and and then what happened because i was growing in my facebook group people are seeing like, wow, like you’re just seeing so much growth, so much engagement and like what is it that you’re doing? Can you teach us what you’re doing like Good I can do and and that’s really where it just felt so aligned, because that was how I’d had such massive breakthroughs. And so I started teaching people what I was doing in my facebook group. So they could do that. And yeah, that was kind of how it came about of creating my facebook group program.

Adam G. Force 30:16
Yeah, and and, you know, the hustle to do that was only because you were booking clients and trying to figure out how to do that for yourself, which led you to have a skill set that other people were interested in.

Christina Jandali 30:29
Exactly. And what I didn’t even realize you guys was, I was hustling to get these clients into this group coaching program, what I didn’t realize is like, okay, I was using challenges, and they were converting effectively for me to sell my private coaching. So why would I not use the same process and sales system to be booking people into my group program. And then when I shifted that, and sold, use my challenge to sell, so just to give perspective, and I thought, Okay, I’m gonna teach this program, I sold two spots this to teach people I can do in the Facebook group, I sold two spots, and it kind of bombed. And I was like, oh, two people in the group program, I’m gonna look like a loser and people are gonna, why would I listen to you? And so I offered them a refund, I didn’t have the heart to tell them why, like, why I just said, Oh, something changed, and they wouldn’t take their money back. He said, No, Christina, I want like, I want you to help me like, I don’t want my money back. I want your help. And so that’s when I kind of regrouped. And I had that, aha, why don’t I use the same method that I was going to teach them, which I’ve been using inside of my, instead of my group? Why don’t I just do that, and then lead into it. And so I did that. And I sold 20 spots into my very first program for the Facebook group questions like, Oh, yes, make sense

Adam G. Force 31:42
I love that. I mean, are you still doing any high ticket coaching yourself? Are you totally like hands off now doing this other thing?

Christina Jandali 31:51
We do have, I do have a high level group coaching program that I work with people our VIP cash flow accelerator program, and is on a leveraged basis. And we have coaches in there. And I usually will work with three maximum people privately one to one. And I’m very, very picky about who we have. And we tend to have a long list for people that want to come in, but I enjoy it for the right people and in very small doses, because it is very time intensive.

Adam G. Force 32:17
Yeah. And how does the just out of curiosity, I hear a lot of people doing group coaching and stuff like that. What can you give a little taste of how that operates? Like, what how does that like? Is that like you meet monthly? Are you actually like teaching people anything? Or is it just they’re coming to questions on a topic? How does that flow for you?

Christina Jandali 32:38
So for our just as an example, like for our larger group coaching program, right over a year, every 90 days is curriculum that like an implementation plan. So there’s very specific, here’s what you’re doing, here’s how you do it. So the first 90 days, people focus on really building a decent, sizable audience base. And then for the next nine months, we focus on their challenge launches and debriefing and, and, and going and doing it again, and really reaching a level of mastery. So there’s predictability, right, and knowing like, okay, by the end of the year is knowing that you’ve got a sale system dialed in, that’s converting predictably for you to take those leads into buyers. So we have the three month and then the nine month and then there’s, they get to group coaching call actually three. Now, three group coaching calls with me each month, they have two accountability calls with an accountability coach each week, it’s cool. For the first three weeks of the month, they get copy reviews from a copywriter twice a month, they get tech calls every week for my team. So it’s not somewhere I would start with that. But because the business has grown and the team has grown, I have the capacity, the ability to bring in my team and resources to serve people. But in the beginning, I would have started a group where I was the one serving them in the different aspects that I could that was aligned with me. And typically I would work with people, you know, if I was doing a group coaching program, they’d be meet with them every week. And then they’d have the Facebook group for support. But it’s important that we always start where you are, start simple. And you can always add on and scale from

Adam G. Force 34:07
Exactly. I think that’s good advice for people is, you know, don’t feel like it because you’re at a different level. So it’s like the people like oh, I gotta do all this stuff. And it’s like, you know, they get into it and like, No, dude, like, you need to start small. So I’m glad you said that.

Christina Jandali 34:25
Very much, so yes, you’ve got it.

Adam G. Force 34:26
Yeah. I mean, it’s and it grows, right. So when you see that you’re getting more clients that things are working, you can continue to, I guess expand on adding the extra extra bonus benefits to people and stuff like that. That’s interesting. So it’s like a year long program, I guess. That’s right. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty cool. Pretty cool. And so now the Facebook stuff that you teach, that’s like a course.

Christina Jandali 34:51
Yeah, it’s more like a course. So with like eight weeks start to finish every week has a module and then yeah, you know, coaching support to be able to go

Adam G. Force 34:58
You got the trifecta. You got the high Ticket coaching. He got the group mastermind, basically and then you got the the course.

Christina Jandali 35:05
Yeah, you gotta

Adam G. Force 35:06
love it. Yeah, I like that. Like that’s a great model too because it, it’s also good. Like, it’s good as the founder and entrepreneur to go through that process, right? And then also for the people who start maybe in the Facebook course, and they if they want to get them in the mastermind and work their way up that ladder as well, right?

Christina Jandali 35:25
Yeah, absolutely. I think the most important thing to look at is I remember, Clay Colin’s family pages. Does he really do?

Adam G. Force 35:32
I do not, I remember when he first started.

Christina Jandali 35:34
Yeah, and something that he said that really landed with me as his five by one model. And I was like, the fastest way to build a million dollar business. And he was talking about having one target market, one offer, right one sale system, one core source of traffic over one year. And if you do that over a year, and you just focus on those five ones for a year, you’re gonna end up way further ahead than if you’re trying to dabble into multiples of those on all of those platforms as you go.

Adam G. Force 36:04
Right? But would you consider like, when you started, you were doing hands on like coaching $5,000. ahead, that would be one offer. But to scale that to seven figures, you’d be a very busy bee.

Christina Jandali 36:17
Yes, so 100%. And so I think I look at it from this perspective, when you’re when you’re growing in your scale, you start from the beginning, you’re doing private coaching, right? You know, if you want to get to million dollar business, and you’re charging, you know, 100,000 per person, or 50,000 per person, like you’re charging a significant higher amount of money, if you’re going to want to hit that number and be able to manage it. And so you have to be asking yourself, as the you know, is that is the value there to be able to create that. But I look at when you’re starting with private coaching, you’re creating cash flow, that funds your ability to be able to start building out the leverage component. So I almost look at it as like the private coaching in the beginning is almost like a job. It’s like, Okay, I’m putting in this time, I’m getting paid decently for the time that I’m putting in this. And what it’s doing is it’s giving me the space and freedom to now spend the rest of my time to mastermind marketing and sales and to build out that leverage offer. So they have a capacity to be able to grow. So I kind of look at it from the perspective is like it’s feeding your freedom, and it’s giving you letting you eat so that you can develop because most people don’t realize that if you are selling a low ticket course, then you have to have another income source to be able to fund yourself as you grow. Because it’s just not tough.

Adam G. Force 37:28
No, it’s tough. And you’re going to be trying to like, Oh, I gotta get I see everybody wants to jump right into Facebook ads. So sexy. I’m like, if you’re not selling 1020 grand organically, you should not be doing Facebook ads, right? Man, yeah, that’s always a place that people want to jump right into. And it’s usually too early Timing is everything.

Christina Jandali 37:48
So true. Yeah.

Adam G. Force 37:49
So we’ll wrap up here in a minute. I know, you got some things you got to get to shortly. So one thing I think is really interesting, important, and I know you’ve tackled this, because I can hear what you’ve been saying is how we think, right? The mindset, which is, you know, that is like, all the business strategy in the world is great. And you know, you can have all those skills, but if you can’t get out of your own way, you know, like, I’m big, like, I love every morning, and every night, I need certain affirmations. I know what it is. It’s it’s more like, not Yes, you are reprogramming in a sense, but it’s to remind yourself, like, I can’t remember what I watched last night on TV, let alone these important changes I’m trying to make, right. So if you’re not reminding yourself all the time. So I’m curious, like, what were some of the major barriers that were you found that you had to kind of like to become the next version of Christina, you know, like, what, what did you find was the biggest challenges for you?

Christina Jandali 38:50
Oh, my gosh, there’s been so many. And the funny thing is when I first started is like mindset, I don’t need mindset, why do I need mindset, just give me the strategy

Adam G. Force 38:59

Christina Jandali 38:59
Just give me the strategy

Adam G. Force 38:59
Give me that fufu crap.

Christina Jandali 39:02
But but here’s, here’s the thing, right? When when we’re taking a look at, you know, you know, we’re taking a look at strategy, right is that strategy, the way we see something is what we create, right? The way you look at business is the way that you’re going to experience business. And so if you look at business as hard, it’s going to be hard. If you look at it, that it’s going to take a long time to get to where you want to go, it’s going to take a long time to get to where you want to go. If you look at right like if you find if you look at money, being easy to make, you’re gonna find that money is gonna come in easily to you. And so, so and I know that the the the I think the biggest massive breakthrough shift that I had, in my perspective and thinking was taking 100% responsibility. And what that meant was in the beginning, I always hoped that a mentor or someone would like scoop me up and demonstrate like their belief in me or that would show me the way and they would introduce me the right person. They would do me well. they would they would, they would, you know, elevate me to the status that I wanted to be they have all the right answers, they tell me about the right offer, they tell me the right way to do something. And if I just listened to them, then I’m going to be able to get the result. And then what would happen was I didn’t get the result. And then I would think that, well, maybe they weren’t the right person, or that wasn’t the right programmer. It wasn’t the right coach, and I was constantly looking at, okay, well, maybe I need something else. Maybe I need something else. And I’d have like, all of these, you know, half built bridges to get to where I want to go. And then I thought, oh, that didn’t work, and then start a new one, right? Oh, like, you know, you hear all this thing full time, Oh, my gosh, I’m Instagram, you start doing Instagram didn’t work, okay, starting to think maybe I need to have Facebook and I can I can do that podcast. And you always people that are starting these new things all the way over. And they’re never giving themselves the opportunity to get to the finish line. And it’s because they’re not taking responsibility, because let’s face it, there’s other people that are massively succeeding in any of those strategies to get the results. And starting a new one is not going to create the result, unless you’re doing something out of order, which sometimes can be the case. But for the most part, it’s really taking a look, okay, if I’m trying five different things, and they’re not working, what’s the common denominator here, and sometimes it’s hard to really look at that and say, Whoa, like, maybe it’s me. And it’s not about assigning blame or feeling bad about it, because the way you treat yourself in the breakdown is more important than anything, but it’s taking a look at, okay, it’s the way that I look at it. And if my beliefs, my expectations are creating the results that I want, then that means I have the power to change that and adapt what I think so that I can create what it is that I want. And so I so so we can’t blame other people or expect other people to save us, we’ve got to take 100% ownership. And that’s when you have that level of commitment and intent that no matter what you will create that outcome that you’re going to go after. And that’s when you start building trust with yourself. And oftentimes it starts small, right? It starts small with just doing that like one thing, and then you start to build trust with yourself and say, like, okay, I could do this, and, you know, it grows and it gets a little bit more and so 100% responsibility 100% of the time means that no one’s to blame, because the complainer’s they all stick together, and and they all fail and flop and bomb. And all of the leaders, if you look at this, if you’re editing group program, all the leaders, the ones that are rocking it, the ones that are like making massive waves, they’re like stepping into the driver’s seat, they’re not waiting for someone to save them or fix them or tell them the way they’re running with it. And they’re open. They’re coachable, they’re getting support, but they have that level of commitment of what it is that they’re stepping into. So 100% responsibility, lets us really just take a look. Okay, if I what I’m seeing an experience right now is not what I want, then what do I need to change within me to be able to change that? Because the perfect tactic is not going to fix what you’re not aligned to being to creating?

Adam G. Force 42:53
Yeah, no, I appreciate everything you just said. And it’s, it’s really, I think it’s one of those things that a lot of people are late to the party to realize, you know, but they, as soon as they like, they go bankrupt, or their bank accounts down to that last dollar, they’re gone. I know, I’m smart. I was great. And corporate, I did all this stuff. But why isn’t this working. And he started saying the only last place to look is right there, right. And then they finally will start doing what they need to do. But you’re right, like, we kind of touched on earlier, like doing things at the right time is important. And I hear a lot of people, I want to run this kind of business. So I’m just gonna start a course I’m gonna make something up, I read a couple books, I’m just gonna sell it, sell it, and I can, and you can spend a million dollars trying to figure out how to sell that thing, right? Or you can go in the right order and do it for people first, like we’ve been talking about, learn, learn, learn, and I think a lot of people don’t want to go through those processes. It’s too daunting to them, you know,

Christina Jandali 43:51
You know, it is daunting. And you know, the other. The other thing that, you know, no one ever tells us when we get into this space is that it’s going to be the best personal development that you’ve ever done. And it’s like building a business. And, and being a parent to my dad, together is probably the best, like personal development on steroids. Yeah, cuz you’re forced to look at yourself a lot and have to move through stuff. And part of that I know that might sound strange to sound, but part of that is actually healing old stories and old wounds and old things that you’ve experienced that have given you the belief system that you have, and that it’s not fun to go through. But if you don’t go through that, you’re just gonna keep replaying creating the same thing over and over and over again

Adam G. Force 44:34
Paradigm stuck. Absolutely. Yeah, no, it’s really true. And you’re right. I mean, people get they get stuck in those loops. And I see it all the more you go through this as an entrepreneur, like you start seeing it with other people like Oh, man, you do the same thing all the time. And it makes more sense to and he didn’t dive into it. The other nice thing too, about starting in the right order with the services and stuff is you learn how to sell And once you learn how to sell, then you’re never gonna go hungry. Like you can always get a client or to pay the bills do what you got to do. And then it’s just a matter of like scaling and figuring out the other stuff. But if you can get on the ground level learn to sell, you’re in good shape.

Christina Jandali 45:15
Yes, I mean, it’s, when you look at that, it’s like, I think your mate has two skill sets, they need to master in business, right? marketing, which is attraction, building an audience and selling. And when you have those two mastered, no one can ever take that away from you, you’re indispensable and you can create anything that you want. And that’s why oftentimes, when people start businesses, I always say, start with where you’re most confident, because you developing this skill set in an area that you’re most confident you can carry over something else. So when I first started, I was working with financial advisors and I had, I was going through the different steps, but it’s like, that’s what I knew. And I was like, Okay, I could feel confident there. And then I could develop my skill set and marketing and sales, then I can carry it over to where it is that I want to go. But if you’re not feeling confident about what you’re selling, or what you’re speaking into, and then you hope that your passion projects going to be the thing to get there, then it’s going to take you a little longer to get there

Adam G. Force 46:05
A lot longer. Alright, so we’re gonna wrap up, but I do have one more thing if you have a minute. So we talked a lot about your kind of your latest, you know, offer, which is really growing these Facebook groups and learning how to sell to these guys, which is just a great process. Can you tease the audience a little bit with a couple ideas of Well, how do I start building a Facebook group? Is there anything that we can we could test out on our own just to kind of get a little flavor of that?

Christina Jandali 46:35
Yeah, I mean, I think that there’s there’s multiple different ways of growing your group and I’ve got a little gift for you guys that will help you with more tactical things that you can share anything that with, with, with starting your group you want to be thinking about, okay, what is it? What’s in it for them? Like, why are they going to want to join and if it’s a post or a PDF, or a checklist that you would do like as a lead magnet to get people on your list as an example, you can have the same for your Facebook group, so giving them a reason for them to join, you’re gonna do your training, you’re gonna give them a little cheat sheet you’re gonna give them something and then once you’ve got that now you got to tell people about it right because like you said, being the best kept secret so so what I do have for you guys is a grow your group bundles is something that we actually sell and I’m gifting it to you guys. And what’s included in that is the perfect naming blueprint. So it’s how to how to come up with that perfect name for your Facebook group. So your people know like yes, this is for me, it also has how to create your perfect intro post so how to introduce yourself to the members in your group in a way that builds credibility but also relatability and then the third piece is a five step mini course on how to grow your Facebook group. So you’ll get like tangible actionable steps that you can apply right away.

Adam G. Force 47:46
Sweet. Okay, so how would anybody listening get their hands on this very special gift?

Christina Jandali 47:53
So you can go to deliveryourgenius.com/Adam, and you can pick that up. deliveryourgenius.com/Adam.

Adam G. Force 48:05
Okay, so your your basic domain with my name. So we’ll add that in the show notes and stuff like that. When we get live. Everybody can grab it. And if you hear this before it’s on our website, you can grab it as soon as you hear it. And then obviously if you want to learn more about Christina work with her get into her programs. Obviously she knows what she’s doing. And you guys could check that out at deliveryourgenius.com.

Christina Jandali 48:27
Awesome. Thanks for having me Adam.

Adam G. Force 48:29
No, I appreciate it was fun conversation and yeah, we’ll stay in touch.

Thanks for tuning into the Change Creator podcast, visit us at change.creator.com/gobig to get access to free downloads and other great resources that will drive your business forward.

Trey Lewellen: How to Increase Monthly Sales With Your Ecommerce Business

Listen to our exclusive interview with Trey Lewellen:


What can you do to sell more with your ecommerce business? We decided to talk to one of Clickfunnels top earners, the ecommerce funnel guru, Trey Lewellen. Trey is know for setting the record for having the #1 physical product sold in the shortest amount of time using ClickFunnels. With well over $50m in sales now he has mastered product selection and sales funnels in the ecommerce world.

More about Trey:

Trey is know for setting the record for having the #1 physical product sold in the shortest amount of time using ClickFunnels. Trey’s entrepreneurial journey took off in 2012 after working several years at the job he thought he wanted. He quickly shifted from working for someone else to becoming an entrepreneur when he was inspired by a successful businessman to create his own wealth. The success in his sales career made him passionate about teaching others how to achieve their definition of success, and his own coaching business, The Trey Lewellen Mastermind, was born. He began to share with others the lessons, tips, and tricks he learned from his own experience and research to help them build their own long-term, sustainable online businesses!

Learn more about Trey Lewellen and his work at > www.talktotrey.com/

We also recommend:

Transcription of Interview

(Transcribed by Otter.ai, there may be errors)

Adam G. Force 0:03
Welcome to the Change Creator podcast where entrepreneurs come to learn how to live their truth, get rich and make a massive difference in the world. I’m your host, Adam forest co founder, Change Creator and co creator of the captivate method. Each week we talk to experts about leadership, digital marketing and sales strategies that you can implement in your business and like to go big, visit us at changecreator.com/gobig/ to grab awesome resources that will help drive your business forward. All right, what’s up? Ready? Welcome back to the change credit podcast show. This is your host, Adam force. Hope you guys are all doing amazing. And if you missed the last episode is with Peter Docker, he has a ton of experience, we talked about what it takes to be a great leader today. Really kind of putting some attention on building a good culture as a leader. And what that looks like, you know, as this these things evolve, right? Peter was one of the co authors with Simon Sinek, about how to find your why and that famous whole concept and that book, been around for years now. So a lot of good insights, Peter has a ton of great nuggets and experience to share. So don’t hesitate to go back and check that out think you get a lot out of that conversation. So today we’re going to be talking to somebody in the e commerce game, we wanted to bring some more e commerce stuff to the table, and his name is Trey Lewellen. So actually learn more about Trey because of Russell Brunson over a Click Funnels, Trey is known because he’s made I think over, I think he’s up to what $50 million. Now with his e commerce stuff. And you know, he was, he wasn’t always in e commerce, we touched on some of that. With him, and, you know, he is known for actually setting the record for having the number one physical products sold in the shortest amount of time using quick funnels, ever since he’s figured that out, it’s he’s just been off to the races, he knows how to pick the right products, how to sell them, and how to make money. He’s very good at these processes. So we wanted to bring Trey in here to talk about his experience and help any e commerce folks out there, learn how to get more out of their business and sell more. Alright, so we’re gonna dive into that with Trey. Okay, so, guys, we did we have some updates. One of them is when you go to change twitter.com, you will find that we have a new Insider’s Guide for how to discover stories. That’s a freebie. So we want it to just start getting you thinking like, where do great stories that actually mean something for my business come from? And what does that look like? And there’s a couple really great and effective, very powerful processes that we share, on how to discover stories that matter for your business, they’ll also help you grow as an entrepreneur. And, you know, if you want to really get into Well, how do I make them engaging? How do I get inspire people to take action for my business and join me? Will, you know that we cover in a workshop so there’s, it’s like 17 bucks, and we do a 90 minute workshop, it’s broken into three parts, and you can sign up. So when you sign up for the Insiders Guide, you’ll be given the opportunity to join the workshop for just a couple bucks. And there’s just so much powerful information about how storytelling really works with your brand, what it means to your brand and why it’s so important. And then we really get into we do cover on how to discover the stories in a little more depth. But then we get into what makes them engaging, how do I inspire action, we give examples and all kinds of strategies. So you know, it’s really powerful. And there’s a ton of great bonuses that we share this try to give you guys as much resources as possible because of how important this part this communication part of your business is to getting you know more clients, more customers, whatever you want to call that. So hopefully you guys get a chance to check that out and you love it. We always love to hear your feedback on it as well. Alright guys, we’re gonna jump into this conversation with Trey.

Okay, show me the heat.

Hey, what’s up, Trey? Welcome to the Change Creator podcast. How are we doing today, man?

Trey Lewellen 4:22
Good, man. Thanks for having us.

Adam G. Force 4:23
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I loved learning about your journey and everything that you have going on and just kind of seeing the wins that you’ve had and the risks that you’ve taken. Really cool stuff. So I’m excited that you’ve taken the time here today to talk with us. Just for everybody’s benefit. Maybe you can give us just a little background and kind of bullet out some of the key things you’ve been through on your journey that got you where you are right now.

Trey Lewellen 4:46
Yeah, we’ve been we’ve been. We’ve been we’ve been quite all over the place. So basically, just real quick about us. You know, we sell physical products out of China. We import you know, containers, we fly them over, we bought them over and then we sell them through funnels and then we use affiliates to Push traffic to those funnels. And that’s pretty much our gig. That’s what we do really well at.

Adam G. Force 5:05
Okay. Yeah. And tell me what interests you in that like, what, what even got you started in that space.

Trey Lewellen 5:11
So the space really began about seven years ago when my brother was graduating law enforcement school. So he’s gonna become a law enforcement officer. And I didn’t really want him coming home in the casket. So I said, How about we started business together. So we actually started a fan page is when fan pages were like really kicking some butt like getting social like engagement. And we did really great, we sold t shirts on there. And we really started selling physical products through funnels, this was kind of like pre Click Funnels. Think about that, right? This is how far back this goes. And so we are using websites like teespring.com to sell t shirts. And then we moved into Click Funnels once that arrived. And we’re really kind of I think we’re user number three, on Click Funnels is what I was told to selling physical products, and we use clickfunnels ever since to really sell those, those products online, and then built out more web hosting websites that we control, and then that, you know, speed up the process. But so we got started.

Adam G. Force 6:08
Yeah. And if I remember correctly, the survivalist flashlight was the first big winner, is that accurate for your first funnel that really kind of took off?

Trey Lewellen 6:18
That was the one that we call hit the Jetstream. So basically, it just I don’t know, I wouldn’t say that was the first one. No, I would say it was this other t shirt. That really gave us a sign of hope. We we were on, you know, Facebook, and we are doing a T shirt and we were doing t shirt t shirt t shirt. I learned a lot from Tanner Larsen. He’s a good friend of mine now. But he had a good course on selling t shirts at the time. And I watched that course. And what was funny was I started sending screenshots, and we are we were selling more shirts than him at about about like two months in three months. And which is kind of cool. Like we still you know, banter about it, which is funny. He’s a smart dude, like, dude’s genius. And, you know, he’s like, Alright, so how you doing that, how you doing that. And so we started teaching on that we started really, you know, expanding that process. And we It was called like the 300 Club, there was a thing on Teespring, where if you got over 300, it would discount the T shirts. So we always we always set the goal. This is what I recommend, like you have to have goals, like tons of stuff went into this, but you have to have a goal of 300 if you got 300 and then the T shirt, this T shirt amount would drop. So we just pushed extremely hard to sell 300 t shirts. And when we did we hit profit. And then we became extremely profitable after 300. So our goal was always to sell 300 and we call it 300 goal, right 300 club? Well, we did t shirt, t shirt t shirt, we had ones that said, you know, rock out with your Glock out. We had ones that said Glock paper scissors, right like all these really cool like funny little t shirts that did well it sold, you know 510 grand worth of T shirts and like a two week time. But then we came up with this one where was like this huge, huge prayer, I forget what it’s called, is like some sort of prayer that talks about, you know, dying in this, in this in this pile of brass and what not is like really huge, deep. And do that one, just that one just took off it launched and unfortunately Teespring didn’t have the best marketing ideas back back then were they pretty much let you run a campaign for seven days. And then once that campaign ended, all the links went away. And so you could only run a Facebook campaign for seven days. And then on a seven day, you had to kill your Facebook ads, because there’s no I know it sounds crazy. But back then you’re like, Oh, that makes sense. And so yeah, so we launched, we started scaling, we scale as hard as we could. This is back when when Facebook had $2,000 a day limits. And my credit card had a 2000 day limit. So I’d spend $2,000. And then the next day would decline because I had to go pay it off. Well, Teespring doesn’t pay you out in the next seven days. So I was like, you know, I was I was forward for self funding this whole thing bootstrapping it together. But that was like our biggest success. We did $117,000 in that month of T shirt sales, which was our largest month we’d ever done that month prior was 15 grant, you know, 20 grand, so that do $120,000 in sales in T shirts. Sales was just a huge win. That was like we finally felt the gesture and like it took off. It was just flying like things were happening. comments were coming in. People were just like going crazy about it and buying saying yes, I want it. It was just amazing. And so that was I would say our first one that gave us the hope and the dreams of the jet stream.

Adam G. Force 9:31
Yeah, he’s saying is Yeah,

Trey Lewellen 9:33
Then about six months later is when we hit that flashlight offer. Okay, that one did you know right under 30 million. So a long ways away from 100,000 right,

Adam G. Force 9:43
I say so

Trey Lewellen 9:44
That was a new level of jet stream. Yeah, we didn’t even know existed and and it tore us up, right. Like we just we just scaled it to the moon

Adam G. Force 9:53
and what so and I want to dissect some of those things and just kind of dig into it. But before I do just what’s happening today In your world, like what’s now that’s kind of like the kickoffs like what’s going on now, what’s the big thing?

Trey Lewellen 10:05
Yeah. So basically, I can tell I can talk about, like some products that we launched last year, which is really, really great. And and so one was we always like, go towards the media, we always look at what the media is doing. We look at what’s you know, what’s known what’s what’s big. This is when like, Netflix launched the gamut. Okay, which is all about chess. So a great year to sell chess set.

Adam G. Force 10:30

Trey Lewellen 10:30
Right. So if you can use inertia, momentum from other media channels and like latch on to that stuff, you’re already giving yourself a benefit, right? Getting Ahead of things. So so the media, this was an COVID happen. So we launched on the masks. So we actually started buying k in nine, five masks, and everybody was going after b2b. So they’re going after like iOS, C’s, emergency operating centers, police departments, fire departments, nurses, dentists, all that stuff. And we took a different approach, where we saw a big storm happening, the storm was everybody’s buying mass from China. And they’re going to be, you know, inflated, right, the demand is going to lower because the amount of inventory is going to expand. And that’s basics 101. So we saw this coming in. So I said, hey, what while we wait for these ships to come in, because once these ships hit, we’ll be able to go and buy masks for pennies on the dollar, even though they just paid $1.60 or $2 for the mask. So these masks roll in, the exact thing happens along with a couple other things that worked in our favor, such as the FDA only allowing six of the factories of like 120, to be able to sell these masks that qualify. So so so these big companies, corporations paid millions, multi millions of dollars on these masks, on the way in, they haven’t even hit the dock yet the FDA calls and says, Hey, NASA, you just bought the you’re importing right now aren’t valid, they don’t work for these type of fields, they can be sold to consumers, but you don’t know how to do that. So now all these huge companies are sitting on millions of masks, all it took was a few phone calls. And we’re buying masks at 10 cents 10 cents a mask. And we were selling to consumers for $2.95 to $3.95, which was about about the market price in Walmart, and in other other retail stores. But we sold them in packs of 10. And really like took off at that funnel did I think right at $3 million in the time that we were able to launch, create and get it out to affiliates, which was which is a cool market. So like those are the things that we’re doing now. Right? we’re attaching ourselves to markets. And then we’re finding products that latch on to that stuff. So right now, you know, we have a big President Elect stuff going on. We have different politics that are going on. So we’re latching on to that stuff. You know, watching what cnn says what’s Fox News talking about? And we’re looking at what products can we create or relate to make that person stand out to make him feel like he has somebody like a monster cry or, you know, a be a part of something. Another one that we did was we did a Christmas ornament. It’s called the 2020 Christmas ornament. And that funnel that funnel did right at five little over $5 million in about a three month span is about 75 days because it got cut off on December 15. But we sold crap tenders, I think we did 92,000 orders of those that went out, which was fantastic. bought that bought the women’s for 60 cents sold them for $13 great profit margins around 2,000% markup, which was excellent. So those are the things we’re doing, man, we’re just we’re just hustling, we’re just we’re just finding products, put them in funnels and then launch into affiliates and scaling. Yeah, like like this is it. This isn’t where, you know, like we got, you know, little Facebook ads running. This is where we take it to affiliates, and it’s on cnn.com. It’s on the Today Show, it’s on Yahoo News, Yahoo Finance, like when you log in, we’re on first page right front and center. So we’re getting the most amount of traffic most amount of impressions, that gets us clicks, that gets us conversions. And then it’s our goal to have high epcs Earnings Per Click to allow for those conversions to happen and be able to pay for that traffic. And of course, again, we get the scale, we get the database, we get the leads and the conversions. To give you an idea on the Christmas, you know, we did 92,000 conversions, but we also got 370,000 leads 370,000 leads, we built the database in 75 days. That’s incredible. So now we can go monetize that database, right? We can do push notifications, we can do text marketing, we can do email marketing, we do direct mail, we got all kinds of point data sets that we can use to go out and build a big business around.

Adam G. Force 14:30
Yeah, yeah. So you would just expand on more of like type products with that audience. Like I say

Trey Lewellen 14:37
Course. Of course we’ll segment it or we sell it.

Adam G. Force 14:38
Segment or sell it. Yeah. And and I’m curious though, like so for let’s just use the Christmas ornament example. I mean, a lot of these things are using the same funnel principles, multi product funnels, things like that.

Trey Lewellen 14:51
Yeah. So what do you mean by multi product funnels?

Adam G. Force 14:54
This isn’t, you know, here’s what you could buy this one ornament and then you know, oh, here’s an offer. To get like five more of them, right? So getting multiple of the same.

Trey Lewellen 15:03
Yeah, so with the Christmas ornaments is kind of funny. There’s heads. So you buy one head for a single guy, right? You buy two heads for a family of two, like somebody who’s got married, you buy three heads for a family of two plus child. So we had heads from one to seven. So they are buying one of 2, two of 3, one of 5. And so they were the the average was 4.71. So for every buyer that came in, they bought 4.71. ornaments,on avera44ge.

Adam G. Force 15:32
Okay, interesting. So I’m curious if we can break it down a little bit, just to give people a sense of what goes into this. And it sounds like maybe your strategies have obviously evolved over time, right, not just running Facebook ads, but getting into some bigger spaces in the media and stuff like that. What kind of investment goes into running a campaign like the Christmas ornament, one where you’re making $5 million in in that short period of time? I mean, just want to give people like, what does that look like?

Trey Lewellen 16:01
A lot of moving parts, man. A lot of moving parts, right. It’s not like, you know, sitting behind the chair in Redis, ranking in like, there’s a lot of things that are going on, you know, one thing I’ll get into that habit to do so. But one thing I want to make sure is is kind of like how we are creating our org chart or organizational chart? Yeah, so one big mistake I learned from the flashlight days, was I, the ego part, right? The ego got in the way where it was like, man, we’re doing great, we’re gonna go build out a huge fulfillment center, we’re going to go build out a huge Call Center, which we did, we bought, you know, we grabbed a 7000 square foot facility for fulfillment, we had 25 people working for us there, we built out a huge call center, we had 50, I think it’s like right under 50 people working for us in the call center suite like 75 employees at the time running that run that g 700 offer. But one thing that you have to understand about internet is it’s a cyclical business, for most of us. So with us, we have a good offer, it’s a lot of high, right, we’re having a lot of fun, we’re writing those highs, but as soon as that offer dies, we got to look to the next one, right? So there’s ups and downs, but over an average, it equals out to be a pretty great year, but the lows are low and the highs are high. So during those lows, you have to find out what to do with your call center, because now they’re just sitting there twiddling their thumbs saying we don’t got leads, you got to figure out what to do with your fulfillment center. And because they’re sitting there twiddling thumbs, they can only sweep the floor so much, right? becomes pretty clean. And they’re like, I don’t know what else to do. So that was a big learning lesson for me, because I realized that we have not an asset anymore, we have a debt center. And what I like to look at is one thing when we bring in mastermind members is we look at their debt centers and their profit centers, and we try to turn their debt centers into profit centers. So everything that’s a debt becomes profit. So for me, my debt centers were a call center, and a fulfillment center. There are both debts that are costing me money, I’m paying payroll, rent all the stuff, right. So how do I turn those into profit centers? Well, for us now, today, sitting you know, four years later from that, is we don’t have any of that we don’t have a call center. We don’t have a fulfillment center. We don’t have a Facebook agency. We don’t even run Facebook ads. Right? What else don’t we do? We pretty much don’t have that that much of anything. We have like two employees. Running a multimillion dollar company. How we do it is we outsource so everything is outsource the call center we run out of the Philippines, right, we have 20 agents that that work for us that receive calls on a high month, we can scale them up, we can take we can bring into 20, 20 more Philippines to bring in 40 agents if we need it, right. But with a click of a button, I can scale that back to 20. I don’t have to go and fire anybody. I don’t have to go and lower my rent, right? I’m working the big aha here is we’re working with constants, not variables. So every order that goes out, I have a constant I know this is gonna cost me $2 to pick it. This is gonna this call is going to cost me $2 right this month, versus with 50 people, I got babysitting, I got HR, I got quality assurance, QA, I have managers, I have executives. So just that right there is a business within itself. So what we’ve done is we reached out to other businesses that have that down, they have it dialed in. There’s other CEOs, entrepreneurs, presidents around those companies that want to wet that, that want to run a well oiled machine in the call center business or in the fulfillment business or in the direct response business or in the, you know, email response business. Like, I don’t want to manage over that stuff. I know what my superpower is, which is finding great offers and then scaling that up extremely fast. Right? So then what we do is we we lean into these guys for our fulfillment center right now. We’ll do 4000 orders today, but tomorrow, I might do one, and so it’s okay. Because I know for $4,000 I’m gonna pay eight grand for tomorrow and I pay for one or I’m gonna pay $2 Yep, If I had my own fulfillment center, it’s not like that I got that same payroll, that same overhead, that same fulfillment that I have to pay for. Right. So that’s the difference. That’s how we’re scaling so quickly inside our company right now is because our overhead is so small, we’re very lean, easy machine. Our facility is right at 1200 square feet. So we don’t have the 10,000 square foot facility anymore. We don’t have the 7000 fulfillment house anymore. It’s really nit close. We got it. We have our duties, we know our obligations, we know what to go get after. And we do it right. And we use these other resources to do that. To give me an example. we’re not the only ones doing this Papa John’s just actually hired an entire call center in the Philippines to answer all their incoming phone orders. So the next time you call Papa John’s and make an order. Listen, there’s nobody in the background. You can’t hear people throwing pots and pans screaming about the cheese or the Mariners sauce anymore. Right? It’s all order takers in the Philippines that are literally online, taking your papa john’s order submitting your credit card and then off to the to the most local. You know, Papa John’s place. This is the way of the future, this is how things are going is dissecting down getting small and little leaching out to the who you need to write to to expand your business at the right time.

Yeah, it’s so much more flexible, right? Seems like you just got a lot more control and it balances everything out nicely. So you’re not paying for things you don’t need. So now I mean, is this is this a viable approach for only if you’re at least making seven figures? like is this viable for the startup? Like should who should be looking at these types of approaches to cut down overhead?

Well, I mean, things that’s everybody. It cuts down it cuts down overhead immediately, right? Like for a startup? I mean, you wear all the hats, right? You’re doing the Facebook ads, you’re doing the funnels, you’re doing the creative, you’re doing the funnel build, like all that stuff. So then you have to ask yourself, what’s the one thing that I hate doing? Do I hate writing copy? Do I hate writing headlines I hate right you know, doing the Facebook ads, I hate doing this fulfillment because me licking envelopes all day, can can can be pretty awful, right? You get all those paper cuts. That might be the first thing you outsource. But then you have to equate, you know the time. So a great example that I give. And I love this example I learned I want to I learned it from but I didn’t invent it. Somebody else told me about it. But it’s great. So I’m going to steal it. I’m going to give it to you

Adam G. Force 22:24
Go for it

Trey Lewellen 22:24
Which is, I think a lot of people, they hate profit sharing. So when they say see is like, Oh, I gotta hire somebody, they see a lower income of profit. Right? Because I gotta pay this guy. I got overhead, I got payroll, I got taxes. Now I got employed and feel like, I got health. All this stuff that blends into it sucks. However, you are working in your business at 100%. You can’t go up. You can’t go more than 100%. Like you’re, you’re at 100% I want to one doesn’t really exist. So 100% you’re at 100% you’re like, man, there’s no more that I can do. I am just all in. I’m doing everything. However, if you hire somebody, and you say, Wow, dude, there, they only operated like 50% of what I can do, right? I know Excel. I know numbers. I know QuickBooks. I know. Click Funnels, I know, creative and copy like this dude, he only knows like three things that he’s added 50%. So he’s half of me. Yeah, having me. Alright, cool. So when you hire him on now your company is operating at 150%?

Adam G. Force 23:27

Trey Lewellen 23:28
No longer is at 100%. Now it’s at 150. Because you added him on, right? Even though he’s doing less, he’s doing more for the company. Now when you hire three people, and you segment them. And they’re all let’s say a 50%. Now you have them at 150%. And they can do more than you will ever be able to do

Adam G. Force 23:49

Trey Lewellen 23:50
By yourself. Because you’re only you’re only capable of 100%. But once you start adding on people, they will outdo you at a much higher rate. Like for instance for us to give you an idea. I have one guy who looks over the entire call center all day he’s answering answering calls he’s getting you know, hey, this customer says this Hey, this customer needs this Hey, can we do this? Can we lower the price? Can we raise the price? Can we do this big of a sale? I don’t know. Right? He’s doing all that. If I had to do all that. That’s taking up all my time, all my energy is to customer service complaints. Now I’m not working on an offer. I have another guy right who’s doing all the creative the banners, doing the videos, editing, he’s out running around making things happen, right make them look good looking graphics behind me if I had to set all this up, this would have taken probably an hour of my time just to set up Get ready for the zoom call. But you got to have people in place so I can go out and as soon as I’m off the zoom call, I’m in another meeting, right making big decisions that I need to go and do but if I’m troubled by all the inbound phone calls and the emails and the creative and the copy and all that stuff, dude, your business will essentially be extremely cyclical. You’ll have huge up and downs because you’ll no longer have to put a be able to put the energy Towards the places that need it from you where your superpower is, right things things fail.

Adam G. Force 25:06

Trey Lewellen 25:06
exactly what happens.

Adam G. Force 25:08
So I guess you know, so your superpower is finding these great products and scaling them up quickly. So tell me a little bit about that. Can we use one of the examples and kind of break down just because I’m curious, it sounds like maybe the funnels and the approach have evolved over time. And I saw you kind of walk through the flashlight funnel experience, things like that. Can maybe we break down one of the more current ones like the Christmas Christmas ornament approach? And what I just want to get people a taste of like, what it looks like to operate at that level, and how you might be thinking about these things. And, you know, the other question I would get into is really, do we try 10 different products, and one is a winner, like, not like every product someone has is always a winner, right? So, you know, we all go through these experiences. And I’d like to share a little bit about maybe things that haven’t worked for you but then break down something that has right just to give people that vision.

Trey Lewellen 26:04
Yep. Yeah. So that’s the beauty behind a funnel is once you find a winning product, it’s just need more traffic. The world is missing good offers. The world is not missing traffic. There are hundreds of millions of people on this earth. Right. So what you’re not missing is traffic. It’s not figuring out the next best Facebook ad is not figuring out how to be a Facebook wizard or genius. Like that’s one traffic source. I mentioned. I didn’t even mention Facebook, if you remember, right. I told you CNN, I told Yahoo News. I told you Sirius radio, TV, newspaper, direct mail, like the amount of traffic that’s out there is I would say limitless, right? Whereas we think that it’s the traffic that we’re missing when realistically, it’s all about the offer. The world is missing good offers. If you have a great offer, you’ll sell yourself like bananas. Look at the iPhones. Great offer. People love it. They love it. They love it. So it sounds like bananas. Right? gasoline everybody needs it. It’s a great offer. doesn’t need much marketing. Right water. Holy smokes. You pay for water every single month. It’s like right.

Adam G. Force 27:09
Yeah, Mark trade. Oh, yeah.

Trey Lewellen 27:11
Boom. So it’s the office now the traffic. So that’s the one thing the next thing is you mentioned, you know, products so you can throw you can throw products at the wall, man, that’s spaghetti, right? That’s like a big big batch of spaghetti. You take the noodles out you throw it up there you’re hoping that something six sticks that’s hope marketing. Whereas you do market first approach where you do surveys, you go out to Facebook groups you go out to email list and you say hey, listen, I know you all love the Cardinals baseball like you’re all baseball Cardinals lovers. What is one product that you’re buying right now with that you love that you’re like you know really really good after really love buying every time you get the Cardinals app oh it’s I love these socks. These Cardinal socks are the best socks they’re warm fuzzy that was my lucky socks I put them on and Cardinal’s always win. I’m gonna go find those socks I’m gonna sell those socks to the other carnal people that don’t even know about those socks right now. So I’ve done March 1 approach, it’s not my idea my ideas suck, like you know I can look at all kinds of products and think they are cool but no one else thinks they’re cool. So I look at I studied the market and I asked okay what what products are you guys looking to buy? Right and testing testing the marketplace so we’ll do a marker first approach versus a product first approach when creating our funnel base and then launching into you know creation copy creative images, banners stuff like that and then launching into traffic. That’s that’s kind of the key of what we do.

Adam G. Force 28:33
And is there a testing phase for you so like let’s say you find the Cardinals Stock Show Hey, this seems like a hot item like

Trey Lewellen 28:39
Yeah, of course

Adam G. Force 28:39
Let’s find out in seven days if this late before we put too much time and energy and money into it like like what’s that look like for you to just confirm if this actually does sell

Trey Lewellen 28:48
Yeah, that’s that’s the simple process you can throw it up on like a Shopify store Shopify is really really simple to pop a product up and then send some traffic to it that’s a really good way to kind of judge your your market right to see if like, you’re on point and if not like visit price or is it? Is it the marketing is it the the angle that you used, and that’s will pop it up on Shopify? Now we won’t even we won’t even buy the product will sell the product, but we’ll arbitrage it usually from walmart.com or Costco or Sam’s Club or we’ll go to Amazon and literally put in their address and send it to them. So we’ll do things like that just to test the product and then if it’s a winner, then we’ll start importing from China.

Adam G. Force 29:27
So why test on Shopify instead of like Click Funnels or like creating a quick funnel like that?

Trey Lewellen 29:33

Adam G. Force 29:34
Just the time? Yeah, so it’s faster just to pop it up on Shopify

Trey Lewellen 29:38
it’s really fast I can I can put it I can put a product up on Shopify and probably an hour. For me to go build a really good funnel and probably take two days.

Adam G. Force 29:46
right a couple days time. Interesting. Yeah. So and and, and then I guess once you get that process going you find a winner when you throw it up on Shopify traffic is coming from your current list or are you paying for traffic in any way

Trey Lewellen 30:00
users go to cold cold traffic because warm traffic is gonna convert way different than cold traffic is

Adam G. Force 30:06

Trey Lewellen 30:06
right they trust you right it’s it’s you. It’s Adam, I’m gonna buy from Adam. When it’s Trey I don’t know Trey. I don’t know what he’s selling I don’t know if his gadget or widget or product is as cool as I think it may be. And dude, there’s a lot of dropshippers out there. Drop shipper, like let’s make sure we understand the difference, a drop shipper somebody who’s who’s literally selling a product and then they’re going to China or aliexpress. com buying that product and then it takes 45 days to get to their customer. There’s a lot of dropshippers out there, we don’t dropship. We fulfill. So we use a fulfillment center, which means we’ve imported the product already from China.

Adam G. Force 30:43

Trey Lewellen 30:43
right. It’s in our fulfillment centers here in the USA, it’s already past customs, right? And then we fulfill so it’s it’s their doorstep within three to five days. So, drop shippers have caused a pretty big earth shattering dilemma in the space of e commerce right now. Because people are smart people aren’t dumb, right? They know what’s going on. So when you’re saying, Hey, here’s this product, they’re like, Oh, that’s probably from China. That’s the majority of the comments right now. So you have to hit that head on. Hey, by the way, we have these in the States, this will be delivered in your door in three to five days a drop shipper cannot say that. Yeah. Oh, by the way, here’s an 800 number to talk to us. How many e commerce stores have have a phone number for you to call in? How many? Hey, how about we’ll respond to you within an hour period, then within 60 minutes of you email in person.

Adam G. Force 31:34
That’s always nice.

Trey Lewellen 31:34
Yeah, it was always record times. Or how about live chat. Hey, we got live chat. And he talked to representative let’s chat right now.

Adam G. Force 31:40

Trey Lewellen 31:40
Right. All those things are going to set you apart in the field in the in this bloody ocean of e commerce right now of dropship.

Adam G. Force 31:47
Time. Yeah, big time that sets the brand apart big time. So and if so how do you you do coaching for other ecommerce entrepreneurs? Is that correct?

Trey Lewellen 31:56
We do

Adam G. Force 31:56

Trey Lewellen 31:56
We do

Adam G. Force 31:57
And so do people come in sometimes, and they have an established brand, but they’re struggling to sell their products. So what happens when you’re not just hunting for a hot product that you can tap into? And you’re not just creating these funnels and processes based on you know, trends and such? So you have an established product that you are totally in love with in the sense that you believe in it, it’s meaningful to you, but you’re not able to sell it? How? What are the conversations you’re having with those guys?

Trey Lewellen 32:26
What what business are you in? Are you the business to make money? Are you business lose money?

Adam G. Force 32:32
Right? So I guess, are you saying that you may need to just get out of that business?

Trey Lewellen 32:36
No, I’m saying get rid of the product.

Adam G. Force 32:38
Change the product

Trey Lewellen 32:38
Change the product. Is not the it’s not the niche. It’s the product. Like there’s just it’s just not it’s just not working? Like you can’t get married to a product. There’s a lot of people that do,

Adam G. Force 32:48
like get emotionally hooked on it.

Trey Lewellen 32:50
They are emotionally hooked. They spent They spent their 401k on it. Like there’s some sad stories, man, like I know we’re kind of just kind of shrugging this off the shoulder right now. But like this, this is actually happening every single day people are, you know, out there getting like they think they need to go get patents, they think they need to create something new. They get these ideas off of like Shark Tank, right like Shark Tank, they see these guys coming in with this new crazy idea. And they made millions of dollars.

Adam G. Force 33:11

Trey Lewellen 33:11
I mean, yeah, that’s great. But the amount of people that are doing that is very few, right? The show is showing you the best of the best you’re seeing the cream of the crop.

Adam G. Force 33:19

Trey Lewellen 33:20
Whereas with us, they were picking a niche right? We’re Hey man, I love baseball lovers, or I love gardeners. I love truck drivers. I love mechanics that we just go to the mechanics be like, hey, what tools you buying right now? Man? I’m buying this really cool. That’s really cool. socket set. Sweet. Where’d you get that from? How much you pay for it? Oh, man, I love this thing. I use it all the time. Actually, I bought two more because I love it so much. Great. We’ll use we’ll use research tools to find out where there’s where they’re being imported from because most likely being imported, we’ll go to that exact factory. And we’ll import those same products, sell them for the same price or more or less depending on and we’ll sell it to mechanics right? Because here’s the thing you gotta understand is just because one guy loves this product doesn’t mean the whole entire niche of mechanics know about that product yet

Adam G. Force 34:05

Trey Lewellen 34:05
That’s the whole purpose of market research. You’re finding this this this fear of the sphere of people that know about this product that love this product, like Hey, there needs to be an awareness campaign around this product. Let’s go build this awareness campaign and show the rest of this sphere of mechanics the same people have this product because this amount of people of mechanics love this product and like are talking so much about it. I guarantee you that all these other guys for the same person are going to just love it the same amount. They just don’t know about it yet. So it’s up to me to go out get traffic. Right put the offer out. I got a great offer now mechanics that come to me like Dude, this guy’s got a great product. I love this thing. I’ve seen this thing. I never heard about it before. But now I have and I gotta have it. It’s the same. It’s the same thing. When Dude, you’re at the yoga studio, right? You’re in the yoga, you’re in the yoga mats, and you’re sitting there and you’re new and you look over and you’re like hey, I’m new yoga what’s what’s going on? What’s like what’s what what kind of shoes do I need? What kind of We got a yoga mat Do I need what kind of water cut? Do I need? I Oh, man, you can go down to Michael’s and see, get this get this water cup. It’s really cool. It’s this that blah, blah, blah. And Dude, it’s just because like, there’s there’s a, there’s amount of people that know about all the products, right, like so they’re so immersed into that that niche that they know everything about it. Those are the people that we target, we ask questions, and then we launched those products to the awareness groups. Right. Is that? Does that make sense that clearly

Adam G. Force 35:25
Oh yeah.

Trey Lewellen 35:25
Okay, so that’s exactly. That’s exactly how we do it.

Adam G. Force 35:28
Yeah, I mean, and so do you find it worthwhile to pay for that kind of market research? Would you say, Hey, if you’re getting surveys from people and asking questions, is it worth paying them for that kind of insight?

Trey Lewellen 35:37
You don’t need to you don’t need to pay him? They don’t they give it free willingly.

Adam G. Force 35:42
They have no problem. I love that. Yeah,

Trey Lewellen 35:45
I mean, absolutely. It’s like going to the gym and being like, Hey, man, we’re where’d you get that cool t shirt? Or where’d you get your, you know, your gloves? Right? They’re like, Oh, dude, I’ll tell you what, hey, what settlements are you taking right now? Where do you get those from? Oh, then I’ll tell you what, I’m on creatine, I got this really good protein. I got these, you know, blah, blah, whatever. Right? Alright, cool. When you get all that how much you paid for it, they’re gonna give you that free will is the same thing as a service. Now, instead of going one on one, we’re going to a market to that niche. Right. And they’re doing a big survey like, Hey, you know, Jim nuts? who love working out? Take a quick survey.

Adam G. Force 36:21

Trey Lewellen 36:21
Right. Tell us tell us what you love. Right now. What’s your favorite product? What’s the one thing that you got to bring to the gym every single day? That’s new.

Adam G. Force 36:29
Yeah, that’s what you want to know for sure.

Trey Lewellen 36:31
I want to know it. And then they tell me and then what you’ll see is things rise to the top and we go after those products.

Adam G. Force 36:36
Okay, yeah, that makes sense. Um, yeah, we’ll wrap up here in a minute. And I just want to tap into just, you know, like, I’m curious, like, all your experience. Now you have so many different funnels different products. We obviously just identified that we need a product that people actually care about, right. So what’s hot, what’s actually you know, going to sell good offer that markets itself at some level, and but outside of that, like, what’s the next most important thing? So you have now you established the product? Like, yes, I know, it sells, you know, people get hung up on like the copy the headlines, the video on the page, or whatever, those types of things, the mechanics of the sales funnel, have you found anything that really stands out to you, as you know, where we put our attention after we have that really good product?

Trey Lewellen 37:23
I’ll tell you where they don’t pay their attention to. And they don’t pay their attention to the most crucial thing, which is the profitability. So a lot of clients have come to us thinking that they have an offer that’s broken. And when we dig into the numbers, we find that it’s actually a profitable phone. So a lot of people are misled. And by math,

Adam G. Force 37:47
that’s interesting,

Trey Lewellen 37:48
though, I think it’s very crucial that people take a deeper step into the numbers of their funnel, knowing exactly what the cost of a product is, and taking that against how much they sold it for. plus shipping costs, picks, breaking it down per product. A lot of people we see a lot of people don’t know how to break it down per product basis, they look at an overall arching goal. And then in their mind, I don’t know how this even happens, but in their mind, they think they can only afford a certain amount for a conversion on Facebook. Like we had a lady come in, she was selling this this this. I’m just gonna go and nail polish. Okay, this nail polish. Yeah, sounds that she bought for $1 selling for $25 great profit margins really great stuff. She was she was getting a conversion for $20. And she’s like, Oh, I’m only making three bucks, right? And after shipping, and after my pics on negative. So in her mind, she was doing this math. But what she didn’t realize was that someone coming in the average buyer was buying 2.5 they’re buying two and a half nail polishes, which was a $75. cart. Right? So when we looked at the Facebook ads, I said, Hey, your Facebook ads are $20 you can afford 40 she’s like I can afford 40. I said absolutely. Look at the numbers. We broke it down, did the whole you know excel sheet dived in on it. She’s like, wow. And then and then and then a scary thing starts to happen. They start to backtrack of how much money they spent, and how much money they made and didn’t make and how much money they would have in their bank if they would have started with us sooner. That’s usually that’s usually what happens. Okay, we had we had that we have another another commerce King member that just posted yesterday is hilarious. He has he has a new continuity program for his t shirt club. Okay, he’s done over $500,000 in the last two months selling t shirts really great stuff in one niche by the way in one niche, and we tweaked out his his continuity, which means people get a T shirt every single month. Okay, so he’s sold $500,000 I think an additional like 8% Is that 2% now it’s at 10%. So for every 100 buyers, he’s getting 10 new continuity members now. So now when he started thinking, it’s like, Whoa, I have sold on what 500,000 I think the average t shirt he sells is like $25. Let’s, let’s look at that real quick divided by 24 says 20,000 times point 10. So he so if he started this right at the day one of selling his shirts, he would right now have 2000 members selling or buying t shirts every single month, right? 25 bucks. So you take 2000 times 25, that’s 52 grand, you’d have coming in every single month. As a fact, that’s a $600,000 a year program that he just bolted on to a system by getting on calls with us and saying, Okay, how do we tweak this out? Right? So you’re pulling your hair now looking back at all the numbers, but what’s great is is he’s still selling so he’s gonna work that up to 1000 members, 2000 members, right building is continuity of getting those numbers now. You know, I said this earlier man is like pure we’re getting started listening to this podcast, you got to think like this, this didn’t happen overnight. Right? This wasn’t something that just you know, walked in the front door, and all sudden, we’re selling products like this right now, I was selling insurance before this. And, and I tell you what I was making, you know, 60 grand a year. So when you hear these numbers, they when I first heard these numbers, they sound out. They sound outlandish, they sound unreasonable, they sound too good to be true. But I think you and I both know that they are true, right? Those numbers are can’t exist, you just got to go out and work for it. Right? hire the right mentors, hire the right coaches, get the right programs, there’s gonna be there’s gonna be bad programs that you buy, there’s gonna be great programs that you buy, and just lean into those great ones, ask for references, ask for referrals, ask for, you know, other places, other coaches, other mentors to go to, and I’m telling you what, like, you’re gonna you’re gonna be successful. So and the biggest thing is keep showing up to these podcasts. I mean, Adams did a great podcast here. So keep listening to this guy. I mean, that’s at the end of the day, what you need to be doing so that way you can go implement this stuff. Because what I think man, is, there’s a lot of podcasts out there that are just a lot of fluff. I’m a guy who loves tactics, right? Like, here’s what you need to go do. Here’s the steps, you need to go do it. Here’s how you do it, go and get it done. Right. So when I’m doing these podcasts, just like with you, I want to give tactical ideas, these guys can have strategies to think go implement laughter listening here, and go make things happen. Otherwise, if I just told my story, and they give me any how tos, well, this, this was just a waste of time. And I got to, you know, show off for a little bit.

Adam G. Force 42:30
I think you made a lot of great points today that should really get people thinking and shift their perspectives a little bit. So I really appreciate that. Yeah, so I think that, you know, we’re wrapping up, I had one more question, but I just slipped that in my mind. What was I gonna ask you about that I was gonna piggyback off something you were saying. I lost it. No big deal. So listen, Trey, how do Who do you work with exactly in your coach? And can you give people a sense of who that is? Do they have to qualify as certain status in their business? And then how do they connect with you? Where do they learn more and all that good stuff?

Trey Lewellen 43:03
Yeah. I mean, if they, I mean, obviously, if they want to, right? We work with both. So basically, we understand that we’re just getting started. And so we look we look for, you know, people who are just getting started, like, hey, I want to know, I want to learn how do I how do I make $1? online? How do I make my my phone? How do I make my phone ring at 3am with a cash register? When someone at 3am purchased and I was sleeping? I don’t how does that happen? I was I didn’t exist, I didn’t understand that. We showed how to do that. And then we also work with people who are doing, you know, multi million dollars a year. You know, we have a client right now that just flew in a couple of weeks ago that did 28 million last year selling, you know, doing, he did a sticker Club, which is awesome. $28 million, selling stickers, pretty, pretty incredible. So you know, we work with all types, because the thing is, is, you know, you want to learn from other business models, right? You might be selling a T shirt, or you might be selling machines, or you might be selling, you know, ratchet sets, whatever. But the thing is, is like if you can learn from other companies, and see what they’re doing inside their businesses and attach just one of those ideas or strategies onto yours, it is going to become a needle mover for your business. And I think that’s what every business owner is always looking for is like what’s going to move the needle in my business and that’s what we help entrepreneurs and business owners do we look for those needle movers in their in their businesses and walk them through that? And that’s that’s pretty much what we do, man.

Adam G. Force 44:26
Love it. And where do we find where can people find you?

Trey Lewellen 44:30
I say what’s the link Brenton? We Got talktotrey still? Yeah, talktotrey.com That’s the easiest one.

Adam G. Force 44:37
Talk to Trey. All right, guys. We’ll have that in the show notes too. Sure. I really appreciate it. One last thing. I’m just curious. You’ve had a lot of mentors over the years probably taken programs and now you worked with Russell and stuff like that.

Trey Lewellen 44:50
Still do, I still do…

Adam G. Force 44:52
A super cool dude. I’ve interviewed Russell twice actually and he’s a lot of fun.

Trey Lewellen 44:58
I’m saying we still have mentors. Like that never stops. That never should stop.

Adam G. Force 45:02
Absolutely. I’m with you on that. Who has been the most inspiring mentors in your life? I’m just curious.

Trey Lewellen 45:09
Oh, gosh, that’s, that’s hard. Jeez, trying to think of where, you know, like I’d almost have to say, you know, goes back there’s a really good friend of mine. We’ve become really great friends over the years. And he’s gonna let he was listened to all the podcasts, he’s gonna love the shout out. But Sean Lynnam is a great, great, great friend of mine. And he was the man who without pay, which is which is incredible, without pay, he came and we buddied up and he’s like, he’s he’s just a walking encyclopedia of like all trainings, which is incredible. Like, you ask him one thing he’s like, Guys, this is what you do. And it’s like, it’s mind blowing at the time of learning, just things like this, you know, that we’re talking about today on a higher level. But I was learning at a much lower level, because I didn’t know these numbers were possible. And so he was the mentor that really took me by the hand and said, Do these are possible, look at this guy, you know, look at this person over here, look at this company, look how they’re doing it. And we can start to do stuff like that. And so he walked me through those stages of steps. And I’ll tell you one thing about mentors. His mentors are really fascinating. But here’s what they can only give you one puzzle piece. I think a lot of people look at mentors for the whole puzzle. And they feel like they failed or the mentor failed them. And one thing I always want to point out is a mentor is usually gonna give you like one good puzzle piece to probably about a four piece piece puzzle, maybe a five piece, and I’ve had probably 15 to 20 mentors now. And each one has given me a piece of the puzzle did did one individual change the dynamic of my life? Probably not. But if you add all of them together, dude, it completely changed my life. Yeah, right. And so they gave like one dude, really good at Facebook ads. He’s like, dude, here’s here’s, here’s all my Facebook, they had no idea about offers. So I knew so much about Facebook ads, but I knew nothing about offers, I had to go find, you know, like Tanner Larson was the offer guy. He was like, Alright, so Tanner knows offers. So if I only learned what Tanner had to give me, he wouldn’t have changed my life. Yeah, but but I knew Facebook ads from another mentor. That combined changed my life. Sure, I think that’s one big thing that, you know, I always want to put out there is, I don’t know that one mentor will change someone’s life. But a variety of mentors will definitely change your life.

Adam G. Force 47:32
Yeah. So you gotta be willing to invest in yourself in the end at the end of the day, right?

Trey Lewellen 47:35
You do, you do start you know, start small, you know, negotiate, that’s always a great thing. And, and just and just keep pushing forward. You know, like books, books are great mentors. podcasts are great are great mentors. You know, as to keep reading, keep listening, keep pressing play, like, like Tony, Tony always talks about, and, dude, you’ll, you know, you’ll become somebody.

Adam G. Force 47:56
Yeah. And I think people misunderstand that, too. They think I have to get a mentor and that they don’t realize, yeah, even reading their books going to their courses. Like that’s their mentorship, right? So you just got to be willing to take those steps and sometimes it will suck and sometimes it won’t. Right. Listen, Trey, I want to be respectful of your time. And I appreciate you just coming in here being full of energy and sharing all these great insights. I love the I love your mindset on just kind of like figuring these things out and taking these risks. So really great to connect with you and just chat. Yeah, absolutely, man.

Trey Lewellen 48:27
Thanks for having us. Appreciate it.

Adam G. Force 48:29
No problem. Take care. Thanks for tuning into the Change Creator podcast. Visit us at Change creator.com forward slash go big to get access to free downloads and other great resources that will drive your business forward.

Jeremy Pollack: Creating a Positive Work Environment To Maximize Success

Listen to our exclusive interview with Jeremy Pollack:

Subscribe to this show on Spotify  |  iTunes  |  Stitcher  |  Soundcloud

What kind of conflicts can occur when building a team that hurts the business? Should I have a flat organization or hierarchy? We spoke with a conflict resolution expert, author, mediator, and speaker, Jeremy Pollack to get some answers.

More about Jeremy:

Jeremy Pollack is a leader in the field of workplace conflict resolution and peacebuilding. He is a master coach, master trainer, mediator, and author. Jeremy coaches and trains executives and employees at a variety of levels and industries, from Fortune 500 companies to major non-profits. Jeremy has mediated conflicts between business partners, co-executives, and coworkers at all levels of organizations, aiming as often as possible to transform relationships and create Win-Win resolutions for all parties involved.

Learn more about Jeremy Pollack and his work at > pollackpeacebuilding.com/

We also recommend:

Transcription of Interview

(Transcribed by Otter.ai, there may be errors)

Adam G. Force 00:03

Welcome to the Change Creator podcast where entrepreneurs come to learn how to live their truth, get rich and make a massive difference in the world. I’m your host, Adam forest, co founder, a Change Creator and co creator of the captivate method. Each week, we talk to experts about leadership, digital marketing and sales strategies that you can implement in your business and like to go big, visit us at changecreator.com/gobig to grab awesome resources that will help drive your business forward. Hey, what’s going on everybody? Welcome back to the Change Creator podcast show. This is your host, Adam force. I’m excited today because we’ll be talking to somebody that has experience as a expert mediator and you might be thinking, Adam, why are we talking to a mediator? This is really interesting, because he gets into companies. And they have different kinds of conflicts and challenges, you know, among teams and things like that. And he starts seeing different behaviors and what they lead to and how we can solve these problems. And, you know, is it better to have hierarchy in a company? Or is it better to have a flat organization and all these things come into play for us as entrepreneurs as we are building teams and cultures, for our businesses, right? So it’s a really fascinating conversation, and we’re going to jump into it with Jeremy Pollack, okay. He is a conflict resolution, expert, speaker, educator, all that kind of stuff. He regularly contributes on topics like leadership, organizational conflict management, and he, you know, his publications, you’ll find them in like Forbes, Fast Company, industry week, all that stuff. So he’s been around for a while he’s been doing this stuff for a while, he’s got degrees, and a PhD in psychology, all that kind of stuff. So hang in there, we’re gonna jump into that conversation in just a moment. Um, if you missed the last episode, so we did skip a week last week, actually. And so we apologize for that. But if you did miss the last episode that we published, it was a really great episode that you want to check out when you get a chance. And it was with Felicia Searcy on how to start living your dream life. She has an incredible background. And you’ll hear all that when you jump into that episode. But we get into a lot of mindset stuff. And it’s so important as we try to become that next version of ourselves. So we can grow as an entrepreneur. Alright, so, again, that’s Felicia Searcy, if you want to check that out. Um, yeah, so guys, don’t forget to follow us on Facebook, leave us a review on iTunes, all that good stuff. We’ll be making some big changes, we actually if you go to change twitter.com, we did update the site with a new little ebook, which is the Insiders Guide to discover stories that matter for your brand. such an important part of business. And this is like a fun part to learn, you know, how do we start discovering those stories? And then we have a little workshop that you’ll be invited to if you want to check that out? where we get into Well, how now that I know how to discover the stories, how do I make them engaging? How do I get people to take action, and you’ll create real retention with my content. And we get into a lot of cool stuff about understanding the relationship between your brand and the stories that we’re sharing the types of story pillars, as I call it, and what that looks like. So really fascinating stuff that will help really shift your mind into this marketing world. So if you get the Insider’s Guide, you’ll get access and invites to those other things. All right. All right, guys. We’re gonna jump into this conversation with Jeremy. Okay, show me the heat. Hey, what’s up, Jeremy, welcome to the Change Creator podcast. How’s everything going today?

Jeremy Pollack 03:54

Everything’s good, Adam. Thanks for having me.

Adam G. Force 03:56

Yeah, man, awesome. You know, your information kind of really caught my attention. And I’m, I’m curious to really dig into this conversation. So just to get everybody grounded, if you can just kind of define the types of ways that you support entrepreneurs. Can you just give some brief descriptions there?

Jeremy Pollack 04:19

Sure. I mean, the the main way that I support entrepreneurs is now is through communication and conflict coaching. So helping entrepreneurs especially when they’re growing their businesses, they start to bring on employees, they want to have a good workplace culture, trying to help them establish some best practices around you know, managing conflict, also run communicating with their staff and making sure their staff is, you know, sort of happy in terms of relationships at work.

Adam G. Force 04:47


Jeremy Pollack 04:47

That’s kind of the main way.

Adam G. Force 04:49

Yeah, cuz when I hear conflict, I have all kinds of thoughts that go through my head.

Jeremy Pollack 04:53


Adam G. Force 04:53

And there might be different definitions. And that’s, so it’s helpful just to hear how you kind of clarify that. I’d be curious to know, like, Whoa, how do we get in? How do we get into that? Like, what? Like, how does somebody become and build expertise on that kind of support?

Jeremy Pollack 05:13

Yeah, right, just like a lot of lots of communication now. So well, so I mean, so I started out, as you know, I’ve been an entrepreneur for the last 20 years. And so I kind of learned a little bit as I, as I went about, you know, what helps keep employees happy, or what kind of conflicts emerge and that kind of thing. But eventually, I got really interested in kind of studying it academically. I originally went to school, I started coaching, I had a, I built a coaching practice, alongside two businesses that around. And while I was doing that, I was interested in kind of getting into academics. So I, I started, I went to school for a graduate degree master’s degree in anthropology, because I was really interested in the psychology, the evolutionary psychology of cooperation and conflict, which is, which is one sort of main section of study in evolutionary anthropology. And then I and then I went and got another graduate degree, a master’s in conflict resolution, and peacebuilding, which is more of an applied degree and looks we’re looking at like how how to mediate, essentially, like mediate conflicts between people. And then just started studying communication theory. And, you know, and getting doing some certificates of coaching, organizational development, coaching, and that kind of stuff. So just sort of that thing, but then also simultaneously building my business and promoting myself as a conflict resolution expert in developing curriculum around it, for writing a lot about it. And just kind of learning learning as I go through both academics and for the real world.

Adam G. Force 06:44

Do you remember, I guess, now, it’s been a while, like how you first started actually getting paying clients? Like when you I know, like a lot of entrepreneurs, I always like to ask that when people have been entrepreneurs for a while, because a lot of people listening are in that world of like, the the customers trickling in with a lot of hustle, but it’s like, how do we start, like getting a more consistent, predictable flow of customers? I’m just curious about your experience and building that up and how that works.

Jeremy Pollack 07:15

Well, I’ll tell you, man, I can’t I come from a long line of marketing and digital marketing, especially I started when I started out after college, when I did my undergrad, I started working in a marketing company, direct response company, which is like infomercials and that sort of thing. So really hard core marketing, kind of understanding the theory of marketing, I learned from a couple of great mentors in that space. And then from there, I when I went off, and to do my own business, I had I had a Martial Arts Academy. And I grew that to a very large Academy in Los Angeles. And that was all through search engine optimization. I mean, basically, we just got a steady flow all through our SEO, I found the value in content and SEO driven content, and learned learned it from the guy that I hired to do it, I actually paid him to teach me. So it was not, you know, not as smart for him. But I ended up learning it and then kind of learning more on my own. And just like every business that I’ve had has been driven through SEO and including my current business, my coaching practice, my consulting firm, all of it, because we just ranked across the board for all types of claims. No, that’s that’s been the steady flow.

Adam G. Force 08:21

That’s interesting. And I’d be cured. Because that’s a long game to play.

Jeremy Pollack 08:26

It’s a long game. Yeah.

Adam G. Force 08:27

Yeah. Like, you got to invest a lot of either time or money upfront. And you might start seeing results. And it could it could take a year. Right. It can take a while.

Jeremy Pollack 08:37

Yeah. Depending on your space, and depending on the keywords in your geographic location a lot.

Adam G. Force 08:41


Jeremy Pollack 08:45

So by the way, like just just repeated. Every, every company that I’ve started, essentially, I started while I was still working in another business. So like I had a Martial Arts Academy. And I was like, I think I want to go into coaching eventually. So while I’m in the tail end of my, my Academy, I build a coaching website, I start optimizing for that. And after about a year of doing that, I finally got to the place where I was getting enough coaching clients where I said, Okay, I can let go. So I sold my modern Martial Arts Academy. And then I did the same thing with my consulting firm during my coaching, so I always had a steady income. Because I know that it’s a long term game, it’s good to take six months a year to start getting clients through SEO.

Adam G. Force 09:24

It does, it does. And we’re big fans of SEO over here at Change Creator and just to close the loop on this part of the conversation. I’m sure people will in their minds like yes, SEO is important. I get it and and a lot of people might shy away because of that long tail like you got to start getting money in the door if we don’t have another business, right or some other income. I mean over the year, is it like you’re putting one Cornerstone piece of content out a month, like can you give people a sense like, well, if you’re going to take that approach, like how much content are we talking about to really start making it work?

Jeremy Pollack 09:58

Yeah, I mean, the more The better, right but but yeah, so I mean, you know, I’m doing at least right now, I mean, here’s the thing I here’s what I tell so people try to do SEO, you find the keywords that you think you can rank for, you might need some help doing that from some experts and that comes up. But it’s really cheap to build content. I mean, I have I have writers that work for me, we we put up a piece, we put up a piece of content every single day. So whether it’s a blog, article, research, summary, video, something every single day, we put up a piece of content that’s now when I was in my coaching practice, I was doing at least twice a week, my Martial Arts Academy, you doing two to three times a week. So whether it’s a like a new landing page, or just a new services page, or new geographic city page, or a new blog article, or there’s something coming up every day, like not every day, but most days. So yeah, I and you know, you can if you want if it’s hard to try to start a business without having some capital to invest, even if you have 1000 bucks a month or 500 bucks a month to invest, spend that on getting, you know, you can find some great writers for 15 bucks a blog, like that’s what they just put up some content and it’s not bad content, it’s good content

Adam G. Force 11:13

You just give them a sense of the topics and stuff like that and

Jeremy Pollack 11:16


Adam G. Force 11:17

Yeah, yeah.

Jeremy Pollack 11:19

I just give them the keyword list. I go just choose a keyword for each blog mark it off that it’s done. When you’re done with it. I was like, 500, you’ll never get through it just

Adam G. Force 11:28

What’s your minimum word count that you want people just so SEO doesn’t ding you is like thin content?

Jeremy Pollack 11:34

Yeah, I mean, you know, I think Yoast says best practice 350 minimum, you know, so that’s kind of where I would stick to

Adam G. Force 11:41

Yeah. So okay, so that’s been a, your process, right, building up a foothold in the market, basically, by capturing certain keywords, being consistent with the content. And I wanted to bring that up. Because Yeah, we’ll talk about the conflict support that you give people. But as people were trying to start these businesses, like, there’s a reality like, this stuff does take time, it does take consistency, but you also need to know, right, Jeremy, like, you got to know what your brand, like, really the core of your brand. And if you don’t know it really well, you’re gonna have these random keywords that you think might be the right stuff. So you got to know like, what that should be? Otherwise, you know, waste a lot of time.

Jeremy Pollack 12:24

Absolutely. Yeah, you gotta think you gotta be, you gotta be clear on, I’m big on being in a niche, you know, of like, you know, and even if it’s not, like, like, we can serve any company, essentially. But we have a very specific specialty. And like, when I was coaching, you know, before my, my brand was inner warrior coaching, because I came from a martial arts background, and I use some martial arts, philosophy and coaching. So I wanted to get that niche, because people that found me that resonated with that idea, I want to build my inner warrior, inner power, that kind of stuff, that that I would stand out among the hundreds of other life coaches are something because people would resonate with that, you know, so I think that’s super important to find the niche. And then you go after your SEO and that kind of stuff. And then the last part of it is like, you can do all the SEO in the world and get tons of traffic. But if you can’t convert you’re into, into like, opportunities and your opportunities into sales. You know, you’re dead in the water. So that’s the whole other part of is like, how are you? How are you doing conversions? What’s your sales cycle? Like that? Kind of?

Adam G. Force 13:25

Yeah, yeah. Once you get on then what, and that’s where we come into play here at change. Still awesome. I appreciate you sharing that stuff. I think it’s just really helpful for people to hear, you know how that all works for people. So you know, as far as the types of coach, tell me about your ideal customer, your niche right now. I know you have a couple different coaching programs, but let’s focus on one of them. You can pick, tell me who that customer is, and the problem that you’re solving for them. I know there’s probably various but I’m sure there’s a core story of this is the kind of person with this type of situation that you’re really kind of like going after? Can you get into that a little bit?

Jeremy Pollack 14:09

Sure, yeah, yeah. I mean, for us, because we’re conflict and communication coaches. So who reaches out to us are either small business owners that don’t have an HR person, because either they or they have an employee in their small business that is just not getting along with people or not communicating well, or they have a couple of people that are just at odds with each other and in conflict, and there’s just like, they’re having trouble and they’re valuable enough not to fire to invest a little bit of money and to see if they can develop some of their communication styles. And then, when you get into a little bit of a bigger business into sort of like the mid range businesses. Our typical client is someone who has a very small HR team, so maybe one or two people in HR, they don’t have a large HR team, and they just don’t have the capacity to or even you know, They don’t have the opportunity to really because it’s like, you know, there’s there’s sort of mistrust with the company, and you have to have someone come on from a third party who’s independent, all that stuff, the HR person just doesn’t have the capacity to coach an employee who’s having a lot of problems there. And so they’re like, we need help, again, valuable enough. We don’t want to have to replace them if we don’t have to. So let’s find someone who’s an expert in communication and conflict coaching to help this person figure out how do I manage conflict better? How do I have better relationships? How do I rebuild trust your, you know, all that stuff? So that’s kind of what we focus on small to medium businesses with very small or no HR departments.

Adam G. Force 15:34

Okay, that makes sense. So it doesn’t matter if you’re a coaching company or an e commerce company, right? It’s just that the niche for you is really just the size and not having HR and stuff like that. That’s where you fit in.

Jeremy Pollack 15:48

Yeah, yeah. That’s kind of the Yeah, exactly. So like the Indus, we’ve worked in like every industry imaginable, like, you know, all across verticals. But yeah, it’s really about for us, it’s about the size and the and the size of the HR department, and who’s running HR. And a lot of times, it’s the owner, or like, the CEO, or something like that

Adam G. Force 16:04

Got it

Jeremy Pollack 16:04

You know, eventually we will try to get more into the larger companies, but it’s, they have, you know, big HR departments, and some of them have mediators on staff, on budget on staff.

Adam G. Force 16:14

Yeah, now, you did mention you do some life coaching, like people who are maybe in corporate trying to change what they’re doing, is that a separate pillar?

Jeremy Pollack 16:25

It is, yeah, like I have. So I have a separate coaching practice, aside from my consulting firm, that I don’t really promote that as much anymore, because I’m so busy with my consulting business, but um, but I do sometimes get referrals still. So I’m not doing any SEO on that anymore. But I do sometimes get referrals that I’ll take on, and a lot of times, it’s people that are just, you know, they’re they’re, they’re essentially unhappy with the circumstances in their life, maybe it’s the relationships they’re unhappy with, maybe they just, they’re not doing meaningful work or purposeful work. And that’s a lot a lot of times I’m dealing I’m, I’m coaching entrepreneurs, like small business entrepreneurs, who are either in a startup phase, or they’re in some, they’re in some business, or corporate business, they don’t like they want to get out of it, and they want to do their own thing. And I’m just kind of helping them, you know, a, on a psychological level, build some confidence that they can do it, and that they’re afraid of leaving their sort of steady paycheck. And that’s going to be okay. And there’s going to be a way to, to figure that out. And like, you know, create a budget for themselves to, to feel somewhat secure. And then be on just on an actionable level. Because a lot of people, they think about stuff for years and years, and they never do it. And so if you have a little you have someone coaching them and giving you accountability, working out the steps, what’s the first step we got to do here? What do you have to do you have to do some design drops, you have to do some research to figure out what people want, you know, whatever it is, let’s take a little step each week, so we can start making this a reality rather than just the dream.

Adam G. Force 17:49

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I, you know, one of the things that came to mind for me, as you were talking about the conflict stuff, your consulting business was a story I heard about the guy who actually he had an agency on big branding geek. And I love branding and storytelling, that’s what we’re all about. And so I can’t remember what book it was, I was reading a story about the guy who ran an agency that picked up Amazon and actually created the Amazon brand, right? But before that happened, they actually, he was telling us stories, like, yeah, his partner came, I think, you know, I got a group of these, these young guys, they’re working off the computers that their dorm or something. And he’s like, they’re like, well, they want to get out, they want us to help build the brand, do all this stuff. Okay, well, tell me a little bit about, you know, what’s their business model? Like, what’s what, and they had no answers for anything’s like, all right, bring them in, ends up it was Yeah. You know, they created the Yahoo logo, the branding, all that stuff. But the challenge was nobody at that team at Yahoo, as it grew, and everything else could make, could get on the same page with decision making. Like they had, apparently, they had an opportunity to acquire Google, but they never did, because they could never agree on how much to pay for it. And I see this, like, when I hear that, and I hear what you are supporting people with, I see that as a form of conflict as well, that hurts the business if nobody can get on the same page in the C suite. Right. So does that like come up at all with these types of like, everyone’s just on a different page? And it’s like, the business can’t move forward? Right?

Jeremy Pollack 19:31

Yeah, I mean, if especially if they have a more lateral type of organization, where there’s where they’ve where they’ve tried to be more democratic, there’s not a there’s not a clear hierarchy in terms of who’s making decisions about what that can get really messy, and that’s certainly an area ripe for conflict, you know, so So I mean, I we are what one thing we find a lot is, I think a lot of small to medium businesses don’t bother putting clear job descriptions together, or even or even sort of helping people stay accountable in their lane. And not crossing over or not knowing what their lane is. Because it’s like everybody’s kind of doing everything. It’s kind of like a, you know, a fire drill. But but that’s a that’s a place where we see a lot of conflict and something that we do and we come in a lot of times a week, that’s one thing we find is we have to sit down and get everybody’s job descriptions and their roles and duties and what they’re laying is really clear and on paper, and people agree to it. So that everybody knows, because if it’s if you don’t have that, it’s like, well, who’s making the final decision about this topic? And who knows? And then it’s gonna, it’s just like, nothing gets done, productivity falls out, the morale goes down.

Adam G. Force 20:36

That’s interesting. So you have Have you worked with, like, the flat organizations versus the hierarchy? like traditional?

Jeremy Pollack 20:44

Yeah, yeah. I mean, there’s a lot of organizations that try to have flat, you know, they call it flat, they try to have flat, um, I don’t know, it doesn’t always seem to work very well, when we’ve when we’ve done some organizational assessments in flat organizations. And typically, like, they were a hierarchy, and then they changed into a flat organization. And people just like, they’re not super happy with it, you know, because even even people that are even, you know, because people that feel like, Hey, I’m a senior, I’ve been here for 30 years, and this guy comes in six months ago, we’re at the same level, because we’re later, we’re…

Adam G. Force 21:18

Okay, yeah, I get that

Jeremy Pollack 21:20

This, this is not this is not like, they should know that I’m a senior level. And so they can come to me and I can mentor them. But if we’re not, if that’s not explicit, like, no one knows who’s like, kind of in charge, or who has more information than each other and stuff. Okay, so yeah, there’s, there’s a lot of there’s advantages to it. But there’s a lot of I think, I don’t know, it’s hard.

Adam G. Force 21:39

It always sounds nice. Like, yeah, we’re all just, you know, we have our areas of expertise. And but you’re right, like, who is the the mentor who, like if I’ve, if you’ve been there selling these products for 30 years, like, you know how to do this. So, you know, it’s nice to hear someone else’s ideas, but there still is that level of experience that you just don’t have in the company, right? That’s intimate with I mean, it’s, that’s interesting, because I’ve always liked the idea of a flat organization was like, you know, forget this hierarchy. It’s very traditional madmen, like years ago, yeah. But there might be some value to it. And it sounds like what I’m hearing from you is, you see more conflict, or different forms of conflict, kind of brewing in those types of situations.

Jeremy Pollack 22:27

I think so I think hierarchies work well. I think when when there’s leaders at the helm, and at the end of the day, because there’s there’s a, there’s a there’s a healthy mix, that which we find so we find, you know, if we there’s conflict is a lot of times it’s like, it’s one extreme or the other, it’s either no one knows what the rules are, everyone’s doing everything, or it’s like a flat organization, no one has different titles, that’s a place for conflict. Other place for conflict is total authoritarian, you know, regime, which is like one person makes decision doesn’t include anyone else in the input, and that kind of stuff. So there’s this healthy balance between, you can have a hierarchy where, you know, there’s a person making decisions at the end of the day, and the buck stops with them. However, they’re including people in a democratic process, to get input to weigh all the ideas and decisions and then eventually go, here’s the decision I’m coming up with based on everybody’s input, here’s why I think it’s important. And then, you know, creating that sort of conversation, making it a very collaborative process. So there’s a there’s a good, you know, I think there’s a good balance there. Listen, I the mind, the human mind is, is I think structure, so socially, to look for hierarchies to know who’s in charge of what and, and to have some structure. And yet, the human mind is also wired for a sense of autonomy and being able to, to feel like I have control over my own life. So I don’t want to be controlled by someone else. So we have to balance these two needs that are sometimes, you know, in opposition to each other.

Adam G. Force 23:54

I think that that’s that’s something to think about and makes a lot of sense to me, meaning you could still have if you know, like, yeah, there there’s a bad taste in people’s mouths that sound like when we have that authoritarian like, Oh, you guys are all making decisions in a bubble. My ideas are never heard. You don’t appreciate me, right? Like that kind of stuff

Jeremy Pollack 24:14

Really poor workplace with that.

Adam G. Force 24:16

But you could still have all of that open up in in hierarchy, you could still hear ideas, keep people included, you could still have collaboration. And it probably does help just keep things organized, in a sense, but you still can have like some of those benefits you might appreciate from that flat organization, it sounds like

Jeremy Pollack 24:35

Absolutely. I mean, listen, I and I will tell any entrepreneurs small business, especially as you take on employees where you grow and you have, like a small team of three or four people, like involving them in decision making, especially decisions that are going to affect them and most decisions you make for your business are going to affect them at that at that level, involving them and getting their input and hearing their ideas, even if you don’t necessarily agree with them. Letting them know that you’re considering their ideas. And you’re actually considering it, even if you don’t go with it eventually, is just a huge a huge factor in building trust with your team and a huge factor in building employee engagement, employee satisfaction, that sort of thing. So yeah, that’s a super important part.

Adam G. Force 25:17

Yeah, what and what have you and we’ll wrap up here in a minute, but what have you seen as, like, I like that, what you just said there, and I want to piggyback off it in the sense of this idea of keeping people excited about what they do and happy, which means they’re motivated. And I, I know, like I we know, if we all know, the mission, and we’re all way bought, we join the company, because we buy into, like, what we stand for and what we’re doing. That’s one way that everyone kind of is like, yeah, I’m part of this thing and especial what else like, like, kind of like what you just mentioned, like, what else is there that you see, is important for people to consider as they build their teams?

Jeremy Pollack 25:55

Well, I think, you know, looking at some basic psychological needs, you know, is really important. So, you know, how does how do people’s identity? How does their autonomy? How does their feeling sense of growth thinks or basic needs, get served by the company? But I think I think, an easy way to answer this is like, there, there are these, if you look at what’s called social identity theory, which is basically the theory that explains how people create a self concept. And the self concept is a merging between both one’s individual sense of self, like an individual identity, and the groups that they’re a part of. And so when you have an organization that people feel inspired by, like, hey, I want to be part of this mission, because I like what the what you’re doing, I I’m aligned with the vision, so they have that strong group identity. But we have to also balance that with a strong individual identity. So if they’re, if someone’s part of a group, that they feel like inspired by their mission is great, all that stuff, but they don’t feel like they have any input, they don’t feel like they have any significant contribution to the mission at all. So that’s going to be a problem, right? If on the other side, hey, I’m contributing a lot to what we’re doing. But what are we doing the company’s like, I’m really important here, but the company is like, has no mission, it has no like real purpose, or, you know, just making money. And that’s all it is, you know, that’s also going to be a problem. So if we can, if we can align both where people’s identity with the group and their identity as an individual are both sort of optimally balanced with each other and high levels, that’s important, you know,

Adam G. Force 27:21

Love it. Those are all really great points, I think there’s a lot of good, valuable takeaways, because a lot of people I think, listening, they are in the process of, you know, running their companies, maybe bringing on some team members. And I kind of find value in all this, even if you’re not hiring them for your company, but you’re maybe their VA is, or they’re like writers and designers that you work with on the regular, right?

Jeremy Pollack 27:46


Adam G. Force 27:46

Um, all this still comes into play, right?

Jeremy Pollack 27:49

Or even even with customers, when you’re dealing with customers, like knowing, like, knowing that your vision as a company, like they want to do business with you as a vendor, or whatever. And also, that the customer has some input in the service that you’re delivering to them in some way. Whether whatever that is appropriate. But like, yeah, like, really creating that sense of your partner with your customer. So I think it applies on every, every relationship that’s going to help your business, whether it’s a customer relationship, an employee relationship, a partnership relationship. This is I think, applicable to all your relationships and in businesses, a lot about relationships. And that’s, I think, what small small businesses fail, like, their people are very technically proficient at stuff and they go, Okay, well, I can start a business. But if you don’t have the relationship skills, the communication skills, it’s, it’s probably not going to go very far unless you bring in a partner who will be with you. And they’re the relationship person, they’re the communication person, you know.

Adam G. Force 28:42

That’s a great, no, because building relationships is really, it makes or breaks a business. You know, it’s how you get people emotionally tied into what you do. And if you’re, you know, I that’s how I think of branding too. It’s about how we make people feel, it’s about the relationships we’re building. And everything we do in our companies is an expression of our mission, our stories, like everything. So I think you hit the nail on the head, and I love hearing it. So appreciate you just sharing some of those hiring insights, what to look for, and those areas where we need that balance, right. And I really love the flat versus hierarchy, because that’s always something I’ve noodled on and I’m like, well, it’s nice just to hear someone who’s worked with both companies and kinda I never really thought of those pros and cons. Like it always sounds nice. But there’s definitely an interesting balance and how you do it.

Jeremy Pollack 29:33

There’s an interesting literature on this. If you look at sort of the like, from an anthropology perspective, if you look at some smaller like hunter gatherer tribes, like, like communities that are living in, you know, 50 to 100 people and that’s their whole world. And a lot of them are egalitarian. It’s like this, this, the literature on how he gala terian societies work where there’s not a hierarchy. hierarchies are necessary in large systems, large organization, but in small organizations, you can have more gala terian ism, but there’s a lot of parameters around it a lot of things that constrain it and make it work. Like people get punished if they get too much. They, there’s leaders for certain things at certain times, and then they have to come back to flat or else they get punished if they try to get too much, too much like a power at some point. So there’s all kinds of constraints with egalitarianism, but it’s an interesting place to look at, because it’s kind of mimics organizations and how they might work.

Adam G. Force 30:25

That’s interesting. Is there any books on that kind of thing that you’ve read that stand out to remember,

Jeremy Pollack 30:30

You know, the read the most recent thing I read that just kind of mentions it, but it’s a really interesting book, and I think, I think it’d be worth reading is Jonathan Heights, The Righteous Mind, why people get divided over religion and politics. And he talks a lot about evolutionary psychology and anthropology and, and how groups cooperate and get into conflict and that kind of thing.

Adam G. Force 30:52

Cool, cool, cool. Jeremy, I really appreciate your time. Why don’t you let people know how they learn more about what you’re doing? Maybe they have a small team and they want to, you know, get support from your services and stuff like that. Where do they go to find out more?

Jeremy Pollack 31:07

You can go to our website pollackpeacebuilding. com and I also have a book that came out in the new year. It’s called The Conflict Resolution Playbook. It’s on Amazon.

Adam G. Force 31:16

Conflict Resolution Playbook. Awesome. Jeremy, thanks again for your time, man. Appreciate it.

Jeremy Pollack 31:21

Thanks, Adam. Appreciate it.

Adam G. Force 31:25

Thanks for tuning into the Change Creator podcast visit us at changecreator.com/gobig to get access to free downloads and other great resources that will drive your business forward.

Felicia Searcy: How to Start Living Your Dream Life

Listen to our exclusive interview with Felicia Searcy:

Subscribe to this show on Spotify  |  iTunes  |  Stitcher  |  Soundcloud

Why do so many people go through life and never live the life they dream of? How can someone change that? In this talk with award-winning transformation coach, Felicia Searcy, we tackle those tough questions and dig into key insights that will help you understand how to become the next version of yourself towards the life you truly want.

Learn more about Felicia Searcy and her work at >  feliciasearcy.com/

We also recommend:

Transcription of Interview

(Transcribed by Otter.ai, there may be errors)

Adam G. Force 00:03

Welcome to the Change Creator podcast where entrepreneurs come to learn how to live their truth, get rich and make a massive difference in the world. I’m your host, Adam Force co founder, Change Creator and co creator of the captivate method. Each week we talk to experts about leadership, digital marketing and sales strategies that you can implement in your business and like to go big visit us at changecreator.com/gobig to grab awesome resources that will help drive your business forward. Hey, what’s going on everybody? Welcome back to the Change Creator podcast show. This is your host, Adam Force. hope everybody’s doing amazing. We got some great stuff coming down the pipeline for you. If you missed the last episode, it was with Rob and Kennedy from email marketing heroes. What do we talk about? Email marketing. How do we make more money with email? What do we need to know? Should I make offers every day? Should I not? Bah bah bah. So much goes into it. These guys are super animated. it was a fun conversation with the three of us. If you missed it, definitely go back, you’re going to find a lot of good gold nuggets in there. So today, we’re going to be talking with Felicia Searcy. Now Felicia has quite a background. But first and foremost, she basically is she’s actually an award winning transformational coach. She’s also an author and international speaker and she’s helped, you know, 1000s of people create a path for living their dream life. And she gets really into that mental game, like manifesting things, understanding how to become the next version of yourself getting out of your own way, right? Things a lot of us maybe don’t like to tackle, put it on the cringe list, right? But it’s so important for us to evolve and grow inside in order for things to grow and evolve on the outside. So that’s what she’s really good with. I mean, one of my favorite motivational speakers is Les Brown. He’s just incredible. And she’s shared stages with people like that. So Felicia has a big background, and she’s done a lot. And we’re going to get into some good stuff here. So definitely sit tight, we’re gonna jump into that conversation in a minute. Guys, we always appreciate your feedback on iTunes. So if you get a chance, I know it’s a pain in the butt but really appreciate your view reviews and support on iTunes as that helps the show. So if you get a minute, or you’re on the app, and you can pop in there, that would be just amazing. Goes a long way. Last but not least, we are starting a new workshop that we are going to be running live right now. So we’ll have updates at changecreator.com/gobig. So if you go to that URL, we’ll have some other things there. But we’ll also update you with like some live workshops. And so this workshop is a 90 minute workshop, alright. And it’s all about how to share powerful stories that win hearts and wallets without feeling like a pushy car salesman. The way we communicate, the things we do are so important. And no, you don’t need to be a writer. You don’t need to know anything about marketing, we’re going to show you how to be effective in communicating your business idea, how to engage, people how to get them activated to take action, because what you’re saying is, “Hey, I can help you. I have this solution. Come over here.” But no one’s gonna join you on that journey if you can’t clearly communicate your business, okay. And so this gets really important and understanding how to have that effective, powerful communication. So we’re going to get into a lot of fun stuff in that workshop. And we’ll have a q&a and all that stuff. So you can check out the page with information. It’ll be on changecreator.com/gobig. Alright, so I think that’s it for now. We will dive into this conversation with Felicia. Okay, show me the heat. Hey, Felicia, welcome to the Change Creator podcast show. How are we doing today?

Felicia Searcy 03:55

I’m great, Adam, glad to be here.

Adam G. Force 03:58

Good. I love your energy. And I love the work that you’re doing. So I’m excited to kind of pick your brain and talk through you know, the experience that you have and helping people around this world kind of live their best life, build heart centered businesses, and hopefully build stronger relationships with money, right? That’s the big Matsu ball. So tell us just a little bit of background just to kick things off of like your, your experience that brought you to where you are now today sitting right here. Yeah.

Felicia Searcy 04:33

So I discovered you know, what many people refer to Universal Law at a very dark time and my life began to work the principles deepen my sense of connection to lifeforce energy, and my life got better. I mean, it just got off the chart better and I hit a spot where then I got stuck and went deeper into it. Discovered mentorship, discovered the nuanced practical application of these laws and realized that I really had discovered a level of understanding that I didn’t really hear a lot of in the world, and knew that I wanted to take it and share it in a way that would really make a difference and build a business with it. And so as I continued to discover the power of this and apply it in my own life and share it with others, it’s, you know, it’s that reverberation of transformation, as I share it doing actual business, and so, yeah, so it’s my way of supporting people in a very structured manner.

Adam G. Force 05:54

Okay. And through this learning process for you, on your journey, how long ago did that start?

Felicia Searcy 06:01

I was 22. And I started and I’m 60. I was gonna say 61? Not yet. I’ll be 61 in a couple of weeks,

Adam G. Force 06:11

You’ve been doing….You got some experience.

Felicia Searcy 06:13

I do. Yeah. And I’ve heard a long, you know, long experience of working with people with it as well.

Adam G. Force 06:23

I love that. And so, I’m curious, um, in your now in your experience in working with people? What is something that just kind of stands out? Like, I want to use the word epiphany, but what is the Is there anything that just stands out in that experience? Like, Oh, it’s so common that or I see this all the time? Like, just something?

Felicia Searcy 06:46

Yes. So the big the mistake that I see people make with this, right, is that they mistake insight and Aha, and that, wow, you know, I believe that I get that, you know, when we hear truth, you know, like, we are unlimited beings with unlimited capacity to create, that’s a truth. And when we hear it, people get alive, and they get inspired. They mistake that insight, for the ability to translate it into true internal transformation, and making a difference in their world. Another things that people will do, there’s a difference between what I call episodic manifestation and true transformation, that people will talk about looking at their vision board and having a vision. And they, you know, and they, they can create something, but they not do the work to do the true internal transformation, in order then to be able to be in the experience of it. And so they may have the thing, but their life hasn’t really changed. Yeah. And then they wonder why I got this, why am I still dissatisfied, and I’m not happy, maybe it’s not what I really wanted. So so it’s the mistake of thinking that just because you have the information, you know how to apply it. And then the occasional quote, manifesting as if we can ever turn that property off, right, as if we can ever turn that ability off. The occasional manifest means that people really understand that, but it doesn’t equate to you creating that rich, abundant, fulfilling life that you are meant to live, where you can truly be in the experience of it.

Adam G. Force 08:29

Yeah, no, I think that’s just a really great point. Because, you know, you could read many books, which people should I think it’s extremely valuable. I read as many books as I can, actually, I have such a long list of books, I’m trying to get through it, just like I want, I wish I could read fast out, I want to plug it in my brain just download. But, you know, there is something to be said for the process of actually manifesting transformation in your life with the information, right. And I’ve faced that challenge too. And I think when you said that it kind of resonated with me, because something I have learned the hard way means which means through lots of time going by and nothing happening is that you can have all the vision boards in the world, like you said, and it doesn’t matter, right? But if you could start if you start really obsessing over something like a definitive purpose that you have in mind, you’re going to start like maybe doing you have to start doing stuff, right. And that’s the kickoff.

Felicia Searcy 09:36

Well, actually, I’m gonna I’m going to invite us to back up a little bit.

Adam G. Force 09:40

Yeah, please.

Felicia Searcy 09:42

The thing that I help people understand, you know, and as you’re talking about social change, right, you know, being a social change maker that we’re using is for good. The purpose of your dream is not to achieve things. It’s not to accumulate. It’s not to go check, check. Check. Did this, did this, did this. And so the transformation is really not about transforming your world. That’s an effect. The true transformation, the invitation, the true invitation is the internal transformation.

Adam G. Force 10:13


Felicia Searcy 10:13

It’s right now whatever your dream is, you know, every single one of us, we’re a perfect fit for our current life, we know how to do our current life, we’re perfectly identified with our current life, we’re not identified with our dream life, we are not a fit, we have, we have not, like earned the right so to speak, to be in our dream, because we’re not the person who’s a match for it. And so the dream is not to get things, it’s to invite us to discover more of who we are created to be, it’s to access those dormant skills and capabilities and to reach down deep and to develop elements about ourselves and to deepen awarenesses, and a connection with this life force that animates us. And that is we grow in the awareness of just even more of our brilliance or magnificence, our contribution, and we embody that we, that becomes our beingness, our world has to reorganize accordingly. It’s law. And so it’s the difference between the temporary little fix, and the true internal transformation that’s informed by your dream, our dream informs what the transformation needs to be right and informs who we need to grow into. So then, as we step into, right, that that new, that new identity, that new beingness, that new energetic signature, learn how to speak the language, walk in the geography of that, you know, be that person now and we are grown into a better person, our world reorganizes accordingly. That’s where the transformation is.

Adam G. Force 11:58

You know, I really I like, Yeah, and I always, you know, think about it as like every stage of entrepreneurship, let’s say you’re making zero to six figures, like that’s one version of yourself. Yes, yes, figures to seven figures, that’s another version of yourself. And you have to go through struggle to become those versions, you have to go through some kind of transformational process internally, right, I never really stood out to me for you is you said the world will reorganize itself, I love that, that is a great way to put it. Now, there’s still lots of reorganization that I want to do.

Felicia Searcy 12:36

Always right, because we’re living evolving beings. And so to realize that we’re always in that process, and to not learn how to be fully present for the richness that is as the new, you know, the longing and the discontent speak to us for what’s next, but always maintaining the state of gratitude. But let me talk about that piece about, you know, learning how to accommodate a greater degree of abundance, particularly financial freedom and being able to identify, right, because I will never forget the first month. So, before I stepped into this work, you know, I was making a decent five figure income, right? You know, I was living in a state that you know, how to lower cost of living. And so making a decent five figure income on an annual basis. I’ll never forget the first month I generated in a month, what I used to do annually, my system went crazy. I got excited. I got scared. It’s like, you know, I thought, Oh, my God, what are people going to think? What if I make mistakes on my taxes? Am I getting too big for my britches? Am I going to be able to hang out with the same people? I mean, it was crazy, right? It’s like, we think we want something, but we’re, we’re not identified with it. It’s like, you have to literally train yourself to allow a greater degree of abundance to flow through you. And I think particularly the thing around money because I know this is the one that I really had to lean into. I got to set up for this, right? Because I think it’s a really important piece for entrepreneurs. There’s this love hate relationship with money is that you know, you want it you can see the need for it, but you don’t want to be one of those people. Right? You know, somehow you’re it’s like you’re you’re starting to you know, you got to the dark side kind of thing. And what I had to realize was that money is a tool that allows me the ability to be able to bring this work, you know, it allows me to hire my team. It allows me the lights to be able to be decently lit up. Right. It allows me the ability to get on an airplane. To go travel, it allows me so so it’s it represents freedom. It also there’s a piece of it, I think this is important for every single one of us to realize, trust your, your compass, that, you know, oftentimes what I hear people say is that money. Money does things to people I’m afraid of, it’s what it’s going to do to me. It’s like if people are afraid that you’re going to get lost, you’re going to lose an essential part of you trust the fundamental core of who you are. And that money won’t change you, you change the perception and the relationship with money. What if we change the way that we relate the money, that money actually becomes the symbol of freedom and the symbol of contribution. And that as and it also represents impact, I realize that every single penny that comes into my bank account represents somebody’s life, who’s now being transformed, and that there’s a reverberation, not just them, but the people around them and the people around them. And that I get to do that. Yeah. And that I get to write really healthy checks to organizations that I believe deeply in, and we’re not suffering, you know, and I’ve given myself permission to live you know, a life that feels good for us. You know, we you know, we think about sustainability, we’ve got solar panels, I’m not gonna talk about the car and drive that is my luxury.

Adam G. Force 16:31


Felicia Searcy 16:35

My nemesis, but you see what I’m saying it’s like an entrepreneur, we have to transform a social entrepreneur, we have to transform the relationship and the identification we have with money. Imagine a world of compassionate purpose-filled wealthy people that have formed.

Adam G. Force 17:01

Exactly. Yeah, you know, somebody said this once, and I can’t remember who it was. But it really stuck with me, and it aligns to your money story that you’re sharing now. And it was, they told the story about how their service, like you have a service for people. And you change someone’s life, right? Like you get them on track. And maybe they now live the best life they’ve ever had. So what I would say is you have a moral obligation to sell your services to them. And no, it shouldn’t be free, they invest in themselves, they make a decision, and they’re supporting you for that service. So it’s like, if you and that human, I know Rachel Miller said that, and I spoke to her a few times on the phone. She’s amazing. She says, Adam, if you love your audience, you sell to them.

Felicia Searcy 17:53

Yeah. Oh, I love that. Yeah, I’ve never heard that before. That’s great. You know, it’s understand I love it. When I’m in a conversation with somebody and somebody resonates with what I’m saying. And they get that I can help them right, that I can help them unlock this power, and really understand the power of our thinking and how to use it intentionally and effectively because we’re using it all the time anyway. And that their dream really is possible. Right? And, and, and there’s this thing that just happens inside and they say, you know what, I’m worth this, I’m worth making an investment in myself. And at that point, they’re no longer having a conversation with me, you’re having a conversation with themselves, all you’re doing, all I’m doing is holding the space holding the energy for them, right for them to come into an awareness that they deserve this and that they are worth that investment to places that represent our values. There’s if you really want to know what’s important to places to go Look, your calendar, and your checkbook. Those two things that matter what you say is important. If you want to say if you really want to know what’s important, go look at what’s on your calendar, you are on my calendar today. She talking to you sharing this message and sharing your message is important. And you’re and when I look at my checkbook, I look at you know, the things that I invest in that I say that are important to me, those are those are your two key indicators if you’re really following your values.

Adam G. Force 19:32

That’s an interesting way to look at it. Yeah, what’s on your calendar, like what’s in your bank statement? I mean, come on Felicia, who has a checkbook anymore?

Felicia Searcy 19:44

Oh my gosh. Yes, I’m gonna be 61 in April. I do write an occasional check.

Adam G. Force 19:54

Man, but it’s a great way to put it. It’s a great way to put it. So yeah, I think we’re In a really good topic on the relationship with money, this is something we see all the time. And for good reasons, you know, people have those reservations. But these are internal narratives. Now the stories we tell ourselves that really will just keep us where we are, right? So we have to, how do we flip the script. So I want to get a little bit into the conversation of flipping the script a bit. And I have gone down many, many roads. So I always get excited about kind of like talking about this. And I know it’s not something that someone can just pick up and learn overnight, or read a book and change. Like, it takes time, or, you know, a coach, like somebody that can really help with the process. And I read a lot of books, like I mentioned, and, you know, I got into the idea of like, affirmations and things like that, and understanding. I’ve always been into like philosophy and metaphysics, so I love learning about the inner self and how that reflects the outer world and all these things, but I think people get stuck on will. vision boards, affirmations, that’s all that’s all Bs, and it doesn’t work. And, and my belief after, you know, I’m 40. Now like, I’m, you know, I’m getting up there, too. I have some experience. Is that those things? What’s that?

Felicia Searcy 21:18

You wrote a check a time or two?

Adam G. Force 21:20

Yeah, I did. I did. But I think those things are very important. Okay, because they are, they play a role in getting your brain wrapped around these things, right. And the one thing and I’m gonna let you jump in here, the one thing I learned about affirmations is that it’s not just about saying something in your head over and over and over, right? So if you have a limiting belief around money, and you create an affirmation that now corrects that limiting belief, it’s not about just saying it 1000 times a day, it’s about feeling what it would be like, feel it, like emotionally, whatever that is. And if you can’t feel it, and become it in your thought processes, it’s gonna be really hard to get there. So I’m gonna let you pick up on that.

Felicia Searcy 22:09

Yeah, and I so several things that you mentioned that I want to reference. So first of all, absolutely, it takes time. So here’s the thing about affirmations. And vision boards, right visioning. People think that they’re like, separate functions, like okay, now I’m going to have an affirmation. Here’s the thing, you’re affirming all the time. All the time. You can’t turn your we’re always affirming something. So so if you’re, if you’re experiencing scarcity, and lack and your business not doing what it is that you want to do, chances are you are, you know, you’ve talked about the script, but the script is the affirmation, you are affirming that things don’t work for you. So when people say, Well, this is Bs, it doesn’t work. It’s like saying gravity doesn’t work doesn’t mean you understand it doesn’t mean you don’t know how to you know how to work with it, but doesn’t mean, you know, just because a two year old doesn’t understand that gravity’s working, let’s use a different example. Just because, you know, I want to, I want to get you know, we’re moving here soon. And we’ve got stuff on the second floor. Just because I want to get a piano, not that I have a piano but off the second floor down to the first floor, doesn’t mean that I can stop gravity, or you know, that there’s a, you know, something that may not understand gravity, that gravity is not going to stop just because like a cat or a bird or you know, something drops off, they don’t understand it, gravity still going to do its thing. So to say that affirmations are bs or vision boards don’t work. Doesn’t mean that it’s not reality. It’s law. You may not understand that, right? And maybe you haven’t learned how to unlock the power. So it can serve you. But it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t work in the way that you want it to. But make no mistake about it. It’s working all the time.

Adam G. Force 24:15


Felicia Searcy 24:16

So you’re affirming something.World is organizing accordingly. Right? You’re seeing something? Yes. Some Faculty of our imagination. You know, Joseph Murphy, wrote the book, the power of the subconscious mind calls it the movie theater of our mind. You’re always running movies. I read it. So it’s not a matter of visualizing doesn’t work. And oh my god, I don’t want to do this. The question is, do you want to keep running the same default movie? Do you want to keep affirming the same default things and getting the same results or you want to put the the, the work and the effort of learning how Master, hearing and intentionally creating a affirming conversation Yeah. Within transmute and transform the old conversation. So, here’s, here’s how I help people do that. Number one, you’re not going to do it just for the sake of doing that, right? That it just you got to have something to directed toward. That’s why I really encourage people to come up with a dream that you have a burning desire for. And there’s work in even allowing yourself to build a burning desire. But having a burning desire is a really scary, vulnerable thing. Because now you’re setting yourself up to be disappointed, right? And so people kind of, they play with it. Even people that are building businesses, I’ll watch them, they’ll kind of stand on the sidelines, and kind of hedge their bets and see what’s going to happen. Right? And so the universe, this universal intelligence, this energy is hedging your bets with you. It’s like, Alright, we’re gonna, we’re gonna play lukewarm here, we’re gonna play halfway in and halfway out. Even if you’re saying you really want it, there’s still a part of me that’s kind of holding your breath. So the first thing is to learn how to let yourself have a burning desire, you know, think about, um, you know, I think about when, as a teenager youth, I don’t know about you, but you know, I became obsessed about the object of my affection. And yeah, figure out where he was gonna be, you know, because for me, I, you know, heterosexual. It a guy, and I would, um, you know, I go plan drive bys. Just, oh… I didn’t know…. So, so that’s a burning desire. And so it’s to give yourself permission to have a burn. And I do a whole thing on how to build your desire. Because once you have a burning desire, now, the dream will inform the images that you want to work with. And it is a mastery, to hold your image in the face of your world not giving you evidence yet, you want to train yourself to place your attention on those things that that are reinforcing the, the dream, the the vision that you’re holding, you want to begin to see that you’re actually the person who can do this. And so you build, you know, what I call, you’re building a relationship with the person who is becoming the person in your dream, and you start identifying who does that person need to be? And then this, this thing around feeling you ask? If this all worked out? Here’s the affirmation. If it all worked out, how would I feel? We have these two superpowers. One of them is that we can consciously choose our images and our faculty of our imagination. We are the only species on the planet that we are aware of I have a I suspect that dolphins may be able to do this, and maybe even elephant, right. And sometimes I think my dog, because my dog is really smart. But we’re the only ones that we have proven that we have the conscious ability to choose images, we get to change the movie. And to understand that we’ve been given that gift by this lifeforce energy that said, we need to be here. And so to really acknowledge this gift, first and foremost and then dedicate ourselves to learning how to use this effectively learning how to choose effectively. The second superpower is what you alluded to Adam, is that it’s the feeling, right? That we have the capacity to generate feelings, you know, we have the capacity to do what I call generate gratitude on demand. Now, the power of this is that when you really understand this power that we’ve been given, and that and again, once again, we have an accountability to it, we have a stewardship to learn how to use powers, that when you when you work with vision and and understand that very few people, you know, really are able to do this consistently on their own. I mean, there’s just we’ve been so trained, to be directed by what’s happening in our world, we’ve been trained to be directed by our history, you know, we’ve been trained to be directed by how other people see us and what they believe is possible for us. And so to have something outside of you to give something or something, someone access to your thinking, to help you see when you slip back into that, you know, that habit of what currently that when you do what I call generate state by holding image and and you know that’s the affirmation the vision is the affirmation the words that I am the man I’m the woman doing this and you’re generating the feelings here’s the power of this the reason why you want to do this is because you’re doing what’s called generating state it literally changes the way you think you’re literally lighting up different areas of your brain and you have access to a whole nother level of creativity that you don’t have access to think of them same old, same old. So now you can hear ideas that have always been there but they weren’t in your they weren’t in your peripheral they weren’t in your radar because you couldn’t there was no place for them to land right and you can see opportunities and now you can act on those ideas and opportunities because you’re living in the state of possibility while your feet are firmly planted in what currently is. That’s a master skill, that’s mastery.

Adam G. Force 31:05

That’s getting pretty deep. Yeah i mean that’s mastery and and i like some of the examples that you gave so we talked about the burning desire we talked about you know really stepping into what it would feel like and maybe asking the right questions helps us get there so you mentioned something like would it feel like if i succeeded with this dream and if you really want to think about those things maybe through meditation or whatever your process may be for the day and i always think about like our what you know a car can make and like this is happening in our brain right unconscious habits and routines we walk through life just going through these motions in that rut can go deeper and deeper and deeper until you’re just kind of like stuck there and it gets really hard to shift gears and that’s why we need help with someone to kind of like keep us on track because like even i like i like i’m having a fascinating time reading this book can’t hurt me by david goggins you know yeah so i literally was like all right i’m the kind of guy like even years ago back in philly i read eckhart tolle’s book about the millionaire mindset and i had sticky notes all over the house so i would constantly trigger my brain about money. Trigger trigger trigger everywhere I looked there’s the bathroom mirror there’s the refrigerator and now he does the accountability mirror and I do the same thing but it’s easy to go back into your old ways. Oh something came up oh I’m not looking at this anymore or I’m not and you just drift. I gotta get back you know then you’re like oh I’m gonna read the book from James clear about habits and he gave back into habits it’s an ongoing battle.

Felicia Searcy 32:46

Well it’s an ongoing discipline

Adam G. Force 32:48


Felicia Searcy 32:50

It’s an ongoing discipline and understanding that we have been so wired so many reps have a particular way of thinking and being and your dream is inviting you you know the dream of your your business and every single one of you here you’re listening to adam because you’re you know you’re socially aware and you’re building the business to live into you know the cause that you believe in or to be more socially aware and we’ve been so embedded around doing things in a particular way and so so it takes wraps it takes there’s a discipline and i can say that you truly do flip a switch where you don’t go back that that’s something really you know when i think about i think about the level of fear i used to live in and how i looked at my world you know that there wasn’t enough that there wasn’t going to be enough you know and you know when i was in graduate school i was teaching and i was in graduate school you know and here so i’m going to do a little birdwalk here you know here was what i thought social social justice and social change was all about i dedicated my life until i started my business in professions that were noble but didn’t pay very much you know that i wasn’t in it for the money kind of thing you know and i taught i taught inner city i you know several several places where i taught i taught inner city yeah um and so i was you know hanging my clothes on my chairs because i didn’t want to spend 50 cents in the dryer right so those kinds of things got wired into me and so i had to in order to be able to bring the level of the impact that i’m bringing now with my business and with the money that i’m now generating i had to go after those parts of me and i i had to number one own the good that would come from it Right. And then and then understand that there’s a discipline. And and here’s the other piece, Adam, it’s loving the part of us that wants to fight love the part that wants the battle, right? Because that part served us that part of being super frugal. Not that I’m like, crazy now. But you know, the part that, you know, sacrificed, right, that thought that I had to sacrifice income for for impact that the two were diabolically different and how much I identified myself with that. Yeah, that to love that part of me along and know that that part is not lost. We’re just integrating it. Right? Because I think people get afraid that they’re going to lose a part of them and says, I want it I don’t I want it. I don’t Oh, my God, I want that information. But oh my god, do I really do I really? Right. And so it’s like, you’re right, there’s a battle. But the discipline is the integration. It’s the bringing you along. So when you’re working with the affirmation, you know, you’re creating something that you can trust. And that aligns with you.

Adam G. Force 36:12

Yeah. Oh, that’s good. Yeah. So. So I guess…

Felicia Searcy 36:17

I don’t know what the question was.

Adam G. Force 36:20

That’s okay, we’ll keep rolling. I don’t remember either. We’ll just go with the flow.

Felicia Searcy 36:26

We were talking about affirmations and visualizing.

Adam G. Force 36:29

And that’s, that’s been the key here. And that was the next thing I just want to get into. So because I like to help people who are listening and and even selfishly myself, like, I’m always looking to learn more on these perspectives. Because like I said, I, I literally, I got into, like the two key areas in the past, I think two years of my life that have become very important. It’s really studying discipline, and habits. And those things like affirmations and stuff like that fall under discipline and habits as part of those things. So for me, like I was more very creative mind. And I know a lot of these entrepreneurs I work with are and we’re doing our business stuff, but we don’t have the discipline we need to become, like we said earlier, that next version of ourselves, and we don’t have the clarity, and we don’t know, we don’t have the tools. So it’s like, I found that habits and discipline are like the most important parts of this process. Yeah, jumping, jumping.

Felicia Searcy 37:32

Yeah. Um, because I too work with a number of creatives. And, you know, a million different ideas, right? And so afraid. Here’s the thing that I hear consistently, so afraid of leaving something behind or leaving a part of them behind that you’re going to lose some element of yours. Okay.

Adam G. Force 37:57

Okay. I’m ready to let go. I’m ready. Keep me going.

Felicia Searcy 38:02

Yeah, yeah, what I have found is that the fear is that if I decide on something, right, I’m going to lose, you know, there’s such a high value of freedom and independence, especially with creatives. And one of the reasons why people build a business that they go into entrepreneurship is because they have this amazing creative energy. And don’t put me in a box kind of thing, right? I would imagine that when you’re brand new, working with branding and marketing, that this is this is what you hit up against. It’s like, Oh, my God, I’m this and this, and this, how can I now narrow down to this, right? So I think what what I help people do is under is really honor all of these parts of you, before you get into a discipline, let’s get super clear around, you know, who are you and these are not segment parts of you. But this is all of you this, this makes up the beautiful, multifaceted, you know, this beautiful quilt of you, right? And that there’s not a single part of you that you got to leave behind. And that when you’re able to integrate all of you and understand that all these creative ideas, no, you’re not going to act on all of these creative ideas at once. But that when you act on a creative idea, you get to express the fullness of you. And that working with an affirmation working with an element of your vision does not mean that there’s a party that’s going to get lost. I think when people can really trust that and know that they’re not having to give something about themselves up that serves now you know, I’m not talking about the party that watches Netflix till two in the morning. Door, my assistant, and not any I’m not even sure what she’s into. She’s in her 20s but you know, she’s on the east coast and I’m on the west coast. We have three hours, so she Start at noon, which is good for her because she’ll stay up till like two o’clock playing some game. You know, so and she’s, she’s brilliant, but I’m not talking about that part of you, right? I’m talking about the part of you that, you know, is a key essential part of you that you want to bring with you. But an affirmation and even the word, you know, having a discipline, that there’s a disconnect to know that those disciplines give you the structure to live into these amazing parts of you more, that you’re not losing an any part of you. It’s an enhancement.

Adam G. Force 40:36

Yeah. No, that makes sense. I like that. So. So the discipline will enhance the qualities that make you you.

Felicia Searcy 40:46

That’s it.

Adam G. Force 40:47

Right. So you’re going to be basically like, if you have your, we’ll call it the burning desire, your definitive purpose, whatever you want to call it, that that end game in mind. And you’re thinking about this, you start obsessing about this idea, right? Now, you’re really like the thought process. Now your brain is taking over, right? So you’re really thinking about this, and you’re start doing things and you’re visualizing, you’re doing the affirmations. These processes, though, like, it’s easy for what we see a lot of entrepreneurs will get to that point of excitement. And they have this idea, even though the idea still might be kind of like a little all over the place, but they have this big idea. But they get kind of like lost in overwhelm with decision making and direction. And so the discipline and the habits is like, Well, we know, we got to do certain things on a regular basis to like compound over time, like build up, build up. And so but what are those things, I think, and that’s where people start getting stuck on this overwhelm with decision making.

Felicia Searcy 41:55

Yeah, so so couple things with that. And yes, you know, that’s a great point. And I hear that over and over and over. Right. One of the things that I help people understand is that your dream and you know, it’s so I’m going to use a cliche here, that our dream is not a destination that we don’t arrive. Your dream is a routine. And I think people miss that, right? That, you know, this is my routine. I got up and I did a masterclass recording for a group that I’m going to be working in later on. I get to talk to you, I’ve got clients this afternoon, I’m speaking to another group in Baltimore. You know, later on this afternoon, that’s my routine. My dream consists of a routine. My routine is reflected on my calendar back to the two things that matter most your your bank statement, and your account. I won’t say checkbook anymore. You know, you made statement in your Yes, your your calendar represents the blueprint of your life. And so are you putting things on your calendar is your routine, even as an entrepreneur, now I get it that there are things that we do that may not be the most fun, particularly in the beginning. But you want to be super clear that you’re not building, you’re doing things to build a dream, and you think this is what you have to do in order to build this dream. Yeah, and you’re suffering along the way, but that the building is the dream. Okay. But it’s the routine. The routine is the dream. And so when you there, and you don’t have to do the same thing every day, but that there is an element of routine, that when you’re engaged in those things, it’s like, oh, my God, I get to do this, I love this. You want to make sure that you’re building your life around those activities. And that your your business is built around those activities, get help with the things that you don’t like to do, you know, that’s why you need to generate the income go get the help, but the things that you don’t like to do, right. And and and to understand that the what you get to build discipline in is paying attention to what brings you most alive and staying faithful to those daily activities that then build on themselves.

Adam G. Force 44:32

Yeah, so I guess I would wonder, because you hear it a lot. You know, you can hire out for things you don’t like, and I think so I have found this is just me that that could be a very dangerous misunderstood, I think statement because I think you’re right, like you got to do the things right. regularly that bring you joy right like this is why you’re here it’s like you know you’re living this dream but when someone early as an entrepreneur here is to just delegate what you don’t like these might be their weaknesses and it’s on what i will call the cringe list right and that might take them away from actually understanding their business completely like hiring out someone to do let’s say for example like your facebook marketing and ads right if you don’t even have any idea what the heck is going on there because you haven’t really dabbled that you don’t need to be an expert but you haven’t like just learn that part of the business there’s a lot of things that can happen

Felicia Searcy 45:49

I love and adore you already and I’m gonna disagree with you

Adam G. Force 45:52

Go for it

Felicia Searcy 45:53

Thank God I never felt the need to do my books first before hiring somebody because i would be in a hot mess right now

Adam G. Force 46:02

Books first, before you… Say that again. So, books you’ve written.

Felicia Searcy 46:07

No, my financials. Thank God I didn’t say that i had to go in and learn quickbooks before i could turn it over to somebody.

Adam G. Force 46:15

Oh no. No, because financially, I’d be in a hot mess if we did that. Now I do have a responsibility to understand it Yes

Felicia Searcy 46:27

So I hire. What I do is that I hire who then helped me understand to a point that i want to understand so i know what they’re doing but i’m not micromanaging yeah so like i’m starting to enter into the world of facebook ads i don’t want to know how facebook ads work. I don’t I don’t want to know how to do them but i need to have a level of understanding and so I want to hire people who can also help me understand. I’ve also taken courses I know that you do a marketing course. I’ve done those kinds of courses to have a level of understanding absolutely but when you start allowing things that are not your genius to cannibalize your ability to bring your service and you’re you’re doing something that you could pay somebody you know 15-20-30 maybe even $40 an hour to do and and your work is to generate you know the higher level of income right? And I learned this early on. Really own the value of your time yeah learn what you need to learn and then let somebody else do that so you can stay focused on the things that are yours to focus on

Adam G. Force 47:52

Yeah I think I think we’re on the same page in the sense that it’s not going super deep but just like somehow understand what’s going on like what makes it work, like why because I talked to people were like they hire certain people to like code an app and these guys they hired if he didn’t know just the understanding of like what makes a good code or not because he’s in that world right? He would have not known that they were completely screwing up the whole thing right and he’s paying a lot of money for it or like we’ve hired like PR teams and done things early on in our early years. Huge mistakes. We had no idea what we were doing

Felicia Searcy 48:34

That’s the other thing, right Adam. Know this, you’re an entrepreneur you are going to make some bonehead decisions

Adam G. Force 48:44


Felicia Searcy 48:44

Right? I mean all of us. It’s part of being an entrepreneur. That it feels good in the moment, we think we understand that and and it’s like you look down the road like oh my god what was i thinking maybe I wasn’t. You know it’s like oh my god I wasted all that money in doing this. Because i can look at the amount of money that I’ve invested in things that didn’t exactly turn out and you know and then you go generate money the other way to pay for the things that didn’t work but you know and realize it’s all part of being an entrepreneur and then what am I learning from it and you know nothing like hiring bad people. Not bad people but people who don’t do you know what it is that they say that they…

Adam G. Force 49:24

Yeah, that don’t deliver.

Felicia Searcy 49:26

To learn what you need to learn.

Adam G. Force 49:29

Yeah like i tried to dig into Quickbooks once and that was just a nightmare. We have a finance team that runs our Quickbooks and books but they we made sure we understand like how it works what we’re looking at and we know like you know there’s no big red flags at least.

Felicia Searcy 49:51

Oftentimes i’ll hear people say i want to make too much money i want to think about it. You know especially when in a business like you need to understand your numbers.

Adam G. Force 50:01

Yeah, exactly, exactly the point

Felicia Searcy 50:03

You never want to get to a point where you say, I don’t want to think about it. In fact, the bigger you get, the more you want to understand your numbers because there’s, again, there’s a, there’s an accountability, there’s a stewardship, it’s a relationship with money that you’re establishing.

Adam G. Force 50:16

Accountability. That’s an important word. I think a lot of people as we’ll wrap up here in a minute, but yeah, Financial Intelligence, like he can’t really grow as an entrepreneur if you don’t have Financial Intelligence, so people really need to start hitting that. And then the other thing you mentioned is accountability. I see a lot of people want to blame others for the problems they want to justify their situations, you know, complain, and that was one thing I learned early on never complain, blame or justify, and I and that has been a game changer for me.

Felicia Searcy 50:48

That’s it? Absolutely. You know, that’s the beauty about being an entrepreneur, the buck stops with us.

Adam G. Force 50:53

That’s right. But you know, it goes for our lives too. Right? It’s like everything I see it around me and now when you start having these perspectives and I’m sure you see it with people you coach and stuff, like you start seeing changes in how people carry themselves but once you have it now you see other people doing it, right? Ah, man, like you don’t see that you don’t see you’re like you’re cannibalizing yourself with this thought process, you know? Well, listen, Felicia, we’ll wrap up I want to make sure people know how to connect with you and work with you. What do they do? Where do they go?

Felicia Searcy 51:27

Yeah, so a couple different ways. Of course my website Feliciasearcy.com

Adam G. Force 51:31

Woah, we got to say that slower. Let’s spell that out for people. It’ll be in the show notes but just for people listening

Felicia Searcy 51:38

Yeah, so Feliciasearcy.calm My name is in the back

Adam G. Force 51:43

You guys can see. S e a r c y. So, Searcy if you’re just listening.

Felicia Searcy 51:48

The other thing is that I have a Facebook group and the name of the Facebook group is Ultimate Life Now. Ultimate Life Now. And every month I do a free masterclass where we dig into these laws of the universe and how to work effectively with affirmations, how to work effectively with vision, how to, you know, build those new habits that are required, not only to build your dream business, but to build your dream, you know, in every area of your life. I do a free mastermind where you know, we come together as a community and just pour energy and what may be coming up for you. The only thing I ask with both of those is that you make a charitable contribution to something that you believe in, don’t give your money to me make a charitable contribution to something that you believe in and then we dig into other things in that I go in there and I do live and when you join the group, you’ll get a free download that outlines the formula that I share with people of how to work with your imagination and bring your dream into your three dimensional world. So those two things Ultimate Life now the Facebook group and then my website.

Adam G. Force 53:03

Perfect. Thank you so much for your time it was a fun conversation.

Felicia Searcy 53:07

Adam this was great.

Adam G. Force 53:16

Take care. Thanks for tuning into the Change Creator podcast. Visit us at changecreator.com/gobig to get access to free downloads and other great resources that will drive your business forward.

Rob And Kennedy: Sell More With Email Marketing That Works

Listen to our exclusive interview with Rob and Kennedy:


Is your email marketing actually working for you? What’s missing, what can you do better to help earn more sales? We got in touch with 2 high energy email marketing experts who share tons of gold nuggets that will change the game for you. Their names are Rob and Kennedy and they are known as the Email Marketing Heros.

More About Rob and Kennedy:

You might know them as hosts of the very entertaining podcast, The Email Marketing Show, or as the founders of the survey platform that makes you sales, ResponseSuite – my guests this week are fast becoming recognized as two of the most dynamic speakers in the world and for reshaping the way we think about email marketing…

Red-haired Rob is a comedy stage hypnotist, and platinum-haired Kennedy a psychological mind reader (or mentalist as they call it in the US), who have spent almost 18 years each relying on their skills of getting into other people’s heads to carve out successful careers in show-business.

Now as founders of EmailMarketingHeroes.com, Rob and Kennedy’s mission is to save the world from that grubby old-fashioned email marketing we’ve all grown to loathe, and give others the tools to become the Email Marketing Heroes in their small businesses.

Wherever you happen to be in your relationship with email marketing, Rob and Kennedy are here to help you make more sales and grow your business by sending more emails that people love receiving.

Learn more about Rob and Kennedy and their work at > www.emailmarketingheroes.com

We also recommend:

Transcription of Interview

(Transcribed by Otter.ai, there may be errors)

Adam G. Force 00:03

Welcome to the Change Creator podcast where entrepreneurs come to learn how to live their truth get rich and make a massive difference in the world. I’m your host Adam Force co founder, Change Creator and co creator of the captivate method. Each week we talk to experts about leadership digital marketing and sales strategies that you can implement in your business and life to go big. Visit us at Change Creator.com/go big to grab awesome resources that will help drive your business forward. Hey, what’s up everybody, welcome back to the Change Creator podcast show. This is your host, Adam force. I hope you all are doing amazing today. So we have a really exciting and interesting conversation that is going to happen today, especially for all you email marketing enthusiasts. Now, before I get into that, if you missed the last episode, it was with David Meade. Now, David is a rock star, he was actually co author with Simon Sinek. For the book, finding your why. Famous book, you probably heard it, you probably seen Simon’s TEDx talk about the why and all that kind of stuff. And we talked about leadership that wins in today’s market. And you know, David has another book coming out. So we talked a little bit about that and kind of taking away the the curtain that people hide behind today. And what really is kind of the future of where businesses going and where transparency is going. So really important stuff and a lot of great insights. So don’t miss that conversation. Now, today, we’re gonna be talking with two people. So we kind of have this little mini roundtable discussion. Now their names are Rob and Kennedy, and they come from a very interesting background. So Rob is a… historically was a stage hypnotist, which really caught my attention. And, you know, Kennedy is a psychological mind reader or what some people call a mentalist. And so these two were out, you know, doing entertainment, and shows and all this kind of stuff for over, you know, 18 years relying on these skills that they have to get into people’s heads and carve out successful careers in show business, right? They had to get deals, get shows get gigs. And this is how they also use that psychology just like any marketer, right to get business. So now they are the founders and host of a show called the Email Marketing Show. And their website is email marketing heroes. Now, all their focus is email marketing, right? So this is such an important component to our businesses, for so many reasons, okay, whether it is getting a follow up sale, but also increasing the value of our advertising budgets, right, because we don’t always get somebody to buy in right off of our ads and our webinars. And we need those follow up sequences, because the emails take more time for some people to get acclimated and learn about your business. And all of a sudden, your advertising dollars goes much further, because you’re bringing in more of that original pool of leads into customer status, right? So we’re going to talk about the psychology and the insights that they have about making your emails work. So this is a great conversation that you don’t want to miss today. Alright, so two other things I want to bring up. Number one, we are opening doors, we’ve been doing a lot of work with our captivate owners, these are our members in our membership. And what happens is they’ve been learning a lot about storytelling. This is what we teach. We teach storytelling as the backbone of your marketing. And you’re going to hear me, we’re going to talk about this today with Rob and Kennedy because storytelling is a very critical part. Whether you’re Russell Brunson talking about the funnels, or your Rob and Kenny talking about your emails, we have to know how to tell our stories, because this is threaded throughout everything we do in our business. Okay. And this is what we teach in captivate. And we want to now have what we call a visual story, right? So we’ve been doing a lot of website design work to create a clear path to purchase and increase sales on our students websites. And this has been really exciting work that we’ve been doing, because that’s a specialty that we have is branding identity, bringing your story to the visual front, right, so now it’s connected, it’s cohesive, and it makes sense. And so we have opened up our brand studio, and we’re starting to take some people in. And so we have a page if you’re interested in applying, we take only up to four or five max per month. All right. And so this month is booked up April is has some openings. And if you’re interested in talking to us about getting your website professionally done, maybe you want your brand story done, your identity, you need a clear path to purchase, a sales funnel, things like that. This is what we specialize in is really making your impact brand shine so that you can build trust, earn more customers, but also reduce the friction and get more sales, right? That’s that clear path to purchase. So here’s where you go if you’re interested in applying and just talking to us to see if there might be a good fit. And if we can help you out. It’s studio.changecreator.com this so that’s for our brand studio. So studio.changecreator.com and we’re excited to talk to more of you see, kinda like where you’re at and if we can help you there’s a lot of different situations. We work with e commerce, we work with coaching, you know, you could be a consultant, you can be whatever service company, that’s fine. There’s a lot of things we can do. So it’s we will do brand story, identity, visual story, those types of things. So if this is something you’re in need of to start scaling your business, getting a more clear path to purchase, building your identity. This is what we’ll do for you. So let’s have that conversation. Again. It’s Studio Change, Creator calm. And guys, before we get into this conversation, stop by iTunes, leave us a review. We appreciate that support. It goes a long way. Alright, let’s get in and talk to Rob and Kennedy and see what they can share with us to help our email marketing game. Okay, show me the heat. Hey, what’s up, Rob and Kenny, welcome to the Change Creator podcast show how you guys doing today?

Rob 06:24


Kennedy 06:25

Hey, Adam.

Adam G. Force 06:26

Excellent, excellent. Um, I love email marketing. Some people say it’s a dying art. I say it’s a thriving art. And it’s just so important to any business. Right? So I was excited when I saw you guys come across my desk, basically. And I wanted to talk about what you’re doing because you’re focused on email marketing. So why do you guys if you don’t mind just pop in there and give people a little contacts like Rob and Kennedy? Just Who the heck are you? And why should I listen to you about email marketing?

Rob 07:00

That’s a great question. I wish I knew the answer. Hey, I’m Rob. I have red hair. So I’m going to be all for Rob average normal clothes, I’m going to be using this voice for the rest of the interview. Kennedy is the other one.

Kennedy 07:13

I’m going to be doing all comedy bits for the rest of the interview.

Rob 07:15

That’s what he thinks. So we have a really weird an interesting background. We are actually from the entertainment world. So I a comedy stage hypnotist. For the past almost 18 years I’ve been lucky enough to travel almost not quite but almost all over the world, performing my show hypnotizing people, making them do crazy things just for the fun of it. And Kennedy is a mind reader folks in the states would know that as a mentalist, a mentalist in the UK is something very different. But basically, that means he uses skills like psychology and understanding people and influencing them to make it look a lot like he can read their minds. Because basically, when you’ve got that skill set, you basically can. So with nearly 20 years, each of this psychological entertainment, getting inside people’s heads and fiddling around a little bit, we accidentally realized that we started a business, we started a business around doing the thing that we love, right, which is entertaining people. And so we had to learn about branding, positioning, marketing, charging more than other people, but still being busy, like, how did we get all of that stuff, right. And so one of the first things that we stumbled across independently, and by accident was email marketing, we realized we could use email to get client while to get inquiries, and then convert inquiries to clients and then clients to repeat clients. And before very long, we’d like swap notes and said, I’ve been doing this man, I’ve been doing this, this is cool. Look at this. And we were kind of doing similar things. And then we realized that we could apply the same stuff that we do on stage to get inside people’s heads and create influence and stuff in email to get better results without being salesy, without using gimmicks and a hype and the stuff that we see people doing that we that nobody wants. And so we just became obsessed with email marketing, and eventually, that they had a very narrow entertainers, you spend very little time on stage, and lots of time traveling. Yeah. And so we wanted something to do when we were traveling. And more and more people were coming to us and say, how are you doing this email marketing thing that started with other entertainers and eventually became other business owners from all walks of business. And so when we are traveling and or when we’re at home, with during a pandemic, we’ve been quite a lot. When we’re not on stage, we’re basically doing a business where we can coach other people to do our stuff with email.

Adam G. Force 09:24

Interesting, that sounds awesome. Yeah, I mean, so I guess as far as like, the email stuff goes, just I guess, tell me a little bit about I mean, you went from entertainers, which I think is really cool. And I love the fact that you guys have kind of mastered this craft of getting into the conversation that’s going on in someone’s brain, right? Not to be manipulative, right, but to to connect with them better, right to serve them better. So what I guess let me get more clarity on just how you start. started getting into using email as a device, I see the transition that you mentioned here. Is this, like, how does that become a product? Like, what does that look like right now just at a high level for you guys.

Kennedy 10:14

See, the one thing is that people are usually quite shocked to hear is that Rob and I are both introverts, which means we actually don’t like selling the idea of getting on a sales conversation, even though to try and overcome that we took some really expensive and intensive sales training. We hate selling, we’re not really well, we’re maybe All right, I guess, but we really hate doing it. So we don’t want to get any better. So we ended up literally figuring this stuff out. How do we book gigs, you know, when when you’re talking 1000s of pounds for a performance? Yeah, and an event? How do you do that without having to speak to another human being, we won’t be able to do because what’s really nice is with email, is it’s predictable. If you write a bunch of emails in a certain way, which are not manipulative, but instead are impactful, are having an impact upon people in a way that excites them ignites something inside of them, that shows them what they want, what can be possible. And you can use those skills in the emails to get them to book you for something as maybe trivial as an event, then that becomes really interesting. And here’s the really interesting thing. Over the past, who knows how many years, email has become a little bit manipulative, it’s like anything, marketers ruin everything, we get ahold of something, and we break it. And because what happens, they start doing all these dodgy tactics of creating these short term wins. They do all these things, which are like, I’ll make a quick buck if I if I do all these scary big, fancy scammy things. And they actually wonder why they have to keep perpetually inventing new scammy ways of doing things. That’s because you were manipulating people manipulation, differently. manipulation and influence. manipulation is about a short term win with no thought for the aftermath. influence is about having that impact. So you can help people to get what they want to get. And thinking about long term relationships. So when you buy some look, even if you listen to our podcast, Email Marketing Show, you don’t at the end of the thing, oh, I’ve just been sold to for 20 minutes. That’s not that’s not how you feel on this show, either. We don’t want to feel like we’re being sold to we want to feel like we’re connecting with people. We want to feel like we’re understanding ourselves. We’re understanding our problem more. And that’s opening up opportunities for us to want to think about solving those problems. So it’s above and we’re on a mission, Robert, I on a mission to talk talking to you all today. We’re on a mission to stop the manipulative use of email marketing, because how many times do we receive? One of the big reasons people don’t send email marketing? Is because they hate receiving email marketing, guess what? That’s because most email marketing is terrible.

Adam G. Force 12:59

Yeah. It’s true. I mean, it’s interesting, because I Well, now I connect the dots, like you mentioned, you know, maybe you’re trying to get an event pays $1,000. Like, you got to have a way to connect with these people in the emails for how you were kind of making that happen. And, and I feel like, you know, you get so many emails today, how do you actually, you know, be effective in what you’re doing and stand out? And maybe it kind of, is there a starting point in the sense, like, I know, if I have seen a few videos of somebody, and they kind of really can, I know, I feel like they can support me in some way with my business cycle a part of my business just like you guys, right? You can support us with email. Then if I get in touch with something that you’re offering me, I might be more inclined to continue to read your emails, because I’m already kind of like interested in what you have to say. But if those emails start, you know, coming off the wrong way to me, then you quickly check out right and you stop reading the email. So what would you say is one of the number one mistakes that people make? When it comes to having an email, like follow up series, right, I sign up for my lead magnet, or I do something and you know, yes, if I want to serve them more, I’m going to sell you a product that will help you more, but you don’t want to come off like the wrong way. So like, what’s the big mistake that people are making that might be hurting them?

Rob 14:26

So one of the things that we see all of the time, and everybody has experienced this is they do what you said they land on somebody’s website, they see a lead magnet or a webinar or something. They register for that. In fact, Kennedy and I were talking about this this morning, because it happened to him, they opt in for something that join your list, and then within hours or days, they receive an email from you. And that email lacks the one most important thing to make a long lasting email relationship and that’s context. Somebody lands in your in your list and then suddenly, they happen to get the next email that you have And to be sending out about whatever it is you happen to be doing at the time. So you might be on like, day four of this big launch or something, which is the case in in Canada.

Kennedy 15:09

Let me tell you like, literally, I have this guy’s list yesterday, right? This Hey, join my email list. Okay, email address in ready to go. The first email I get. And this sounds like an exaggeration, I promise you just beautiful timing. Adam, this is clever. Right? Great, great timing is that my first email from the guy is bonus number three ends and goes away and expires in one hour. bonus number three, I don’t know what the product is. And the product, I clicked on it the products three grand I can I ever? Can any of us buy that product? No, we can’t buy that product, because I’ve got no context.

Rob 15:53

And the worst part about that is it’s destroyed the relationship going forward. Now, Kennedy happened to have a little therapy session with me this morning by talking it out. But obviously most people are not in the game of email marketing. So most people just have this little panic in their head where they go, who is this person? What’s this about? What am I doing this is all unconscious thought like, none of this ever comes to the fore for most people, we’re just freaks. And then what happens is that that unconsciousness is blocking them from being able to do anything. So the best case scenario is that they’ll just sort of occasionally look at your emails and try to remember who you are. The worst case scenario is they’ll disengage, they’ll stop paying attention, which means now your emails are just in the slew of unread emails in their inbox, which is a different story. But that’s damaging your ability to get delivery to the people who do want to receive your emails. So for us, it’s not creating context, the minute somebody joins your list, one of the things that we created is something called the getting to know you sequence. It’s our version of the welcome sequence, this idea of bringing people on board. In our case, it’s four days worth of emails, one email each day for four days. And those emails are basically welcoming them to your world, telling them who you are and what they can expect going forward. And one of those things in our businesses, we’re going to email you every single day. And that’s good for you because and then why it’s good for them. We’re going to give you tips, hints, ideas, strategies, stories, fun stuff, all with the goal of leveling up your email marketing, we tell them how else they can engage with us, you can listen to our podcast, that Email Marketing Show, you can be in our Facebook group, the Email Marketing Show community, you can take part in our Twitter chat, email, our so all of this stuff that they can do. And it’s kind of like we think about it, like when somebody gets on the train, and they sit down and they get their seat and they’re all comfortable. And they put their laptop on the table. If they’ve got a table, and then suddenly you hear the tunnel announcement say welcome aboard the 1432 service. This is what happens in England anyway, the 1432 service to Bristol, in England. And then etc. And then you feel good because you know you’re on the right train or because you’re on the wrong train, right. And that’s okay to some people read that email and say, This is not for me and unsubscribe, that’s great. Because that we know that we don’t want them on our list and they don’t want to be there. That’s a win win. Yeah, so what that means now is every day going forward, your emails really quite naturally become part of their everyday life now, like so that sets up all of the context, it sets up all the win win framework for everybody. And that’s a that’s probably the biggest mistake we see.

Adam G. Force 18:19

Yeah, and that makes a lot of sense. And I think people get over anxious to just sell, sell, sell, which means they’re probably approaching the business with the wrong intentions to begin with. Right? You know, like, it’s just so many everyday life examples, you know, the classic relationship example you don’t go up to someone asked him to get married, like, you know, you got to get to know someone. And you know, like on our side, we’re all about storytelling because we believe that that form of communication is the best way to build a relationship and trust and and do what you guys say give context help people understand, you know, clearly what’s going on. So I love the first four days and I like the train analogy. I might steal that. That’s fine now I will say that I have you know, I used to travel from New York to Philly every day for when I was a co move Amtrak Yeah, baby. And there was a time multiple times but the worst time I got out, you know, you go down the stairs, right and you got to train on the left or train on the right now I’m in a routine I got my headphones on. I’m not fucking listening anymore. I’m just doing my thing. Get on the train. I get my laptop. Exactly. Like Rob said, put it up start working. an hour goes by and I’m looking over to the right and I’m like, that’s an interesting body of water. I really took notice of that. And I was pretty much like two hours by the time I asked somebody and I picked my head up from the computer away. The opposite way from Philadelphia and I had to go back is the worst nightmare ever had dinner plans with my wife that night that all fell apart. But you know, it’s Yeah, so the train analogy I like when you said the announcer lets you know you’re in the right place. Right great. way to think about the email. It’s like, you kind of have this curiosity, you sign up. Are you in the right place? What do you expect? Right? So, such a logical thing that a lot of people miss. And I hear that all the time. So, so I guess Tell me a little bit about what you find is, you know, we got into some of the basics there the introductory stuff, but it goes beyond that, right? What happens after four days, like, where do we make? How do we start making the sale? And I want to say, that means how do we serve people more like we got to, like, ease them in, put their toe in the water and let them know they’re in the right place? Where does it go from there? Like how, like you’re The Mentalist? You’re reading people, but you can’t do that over email as much? Or can you? I don’t know.

Kennedy 20:49

Can you totally can because, like, okay, so we talked about context, and we think about context a lot. There’s two things we talk about a lot. One of them is contact, the other one is beliefs. So the next thing we’re going to try and do is create context around beliefs. So you’ve got the getting to know your sequence. That’s the four day welcome sequence, which is that a build authority, build credibility, build, also some vulnerabilities and as trust and stuff going on there, lots of stuff going on, psychologically speaking in those four emails. The next thing we’re going to do is we have a thing called the overture sequence. And that’s like the beginning of a movie beginning of a musical in New York. On Broadway. There’s that Overture, which tells you kind of introduces you to the product. So this is what is really missing from this guy’s campaign that I mentioned, because I didn’t have context for the product now. So the first bit is context for you in your world. The second bit is context for the product. Because debt, you know, the third bonus is disappearing. The bonus of war. That’s it. Yeah, exactly. Like you kind of like what you’re talking about. So what we’re going to do at this point is we’re going to tell them what the product is. And we’re going to ask ourselves the question, what are the things this person needs to believe, before they could possibly buy one it is that I’m selling, whether that’s a donation, because I’m a charity, whether that’s they want to purchase something, whatever it is that we’re selling. So whatever beliefs they need to have before we could possibly do that. And the beliefs they need to have are? What do they need to believe about you the person offering this product or service? Secondly, what do they need to believe about the product or service than itself? Third, what do they need to believe about themselves before they can buy it? And finally, I missed the one that a lot of people, in fact, we’ve never heard anybody talk about this, and this is game changing is, what do they need to believe about the people around them? before they can buy it? Because when you buy something, whether it’s $5, or $5,000, somebody at some point is going to say, oh, what was that, and you’re gonna have to go, Oh, it was this thing, and that, and you know, they’re gonna have a reaction, either, that’s awesome. Or that sounds like bullshit, it’s gonna be somewhere on the, on the on that on that range of bullshit, too awesome. And if you couldn’t, if you’re gonna feel embarrassed about what that thing is, then you haven’t positioned it correctly. So we’re going to build up all those beliefs. And we’re going to do that over six different emails, which each in turn talk about, this is why this is important. This is why this is important. Now, this is what other people are saying, and so on, and so forth. So we’re going to create this complete context for the product. But here’s the really, really, really important thing. Most people email far too little. The number one reason that people unsubscribe from anyone’s email list, and we all feel a little bit sad inside when we see someone’s unsubscribe from our email list. We know the reason they do that is and they say, it’s because it’s not relevant. It’s not they sort of go unsubscribe, it’s not what I want. And it is because of relevance. And the reason that they say it’s not relevant is often because they forgotten who you are. And more importantly, they’ve forgotten why they’re on your email list. I got an email last week from some guy called Joe somebody or other and I’m like, I have no idea who Joe someone or other is. I’ve got no idea. You are Joe, how am I on your list? I mean, this is terrible. So I report them as spam. And then I think, I wonder. So I do a search for Joe’s email address. It turns out he hasn’t emailed me for a month. Well, a lot happens in a month. Think about how long a month is really how much happens in a month. So if you email more often, people remember who you are. So they don’t report you as a dirty rotten spammer. And secondly, it actually technically technologically giggly improves the delivery rate, if you email more often.

Adam G. Force 25:04

Yeah, I, you know, I am totally on board with that. And I, you see a lot of people call what I do once a month. And to your point, like I’ve been in the same boat, I get some email. I’m like, Who the heck is this signed up for something, you know, three, four months ago, and all of a sudden, you get this random email and you know, you unsubscribe and report it as spam and who knows what, but the daily email, if someone is interested in what you’re doing, right, is what you’re saying. It’s like, you’re now in this conversation. And you want to keep the conversation going, like they’re in your world, because they’re interested. So if you all a sudden go radio silent, they go to somewhere else. That’s it.

Kennedy 25:44

And here’s what’s great. When you show up every single day, which is what we do, we email 365 days a year, we made a sale on Christmas Day, like, we couldn’t believe it. We Rob and I like we’re texting each other going. You see Slack, we just made a sale. It’s pretty Christmas Day, how’s your turkey, by the way? Oh, yeah, we made a sale on Christmas Day. The reason that we can email every single day is because the way that email marketing is done now needs to change. And what it needs to be is we need to not email people, when we want to make a sale, we need to not email people or make us out, we need to email people with a value that they enjoy, they get value from so that at the time they’re ready to buy, where they’re, they know who we are, they understand us and they know where the link is to click and buy the thing. So we need to be there. So at the moment that they’re ready to buy, they were there we are showing up. And they’ve understood the context, the product, the need, the desire, the why they understand that they have all these beliefs, beliefs at that point. And the single best way to do that is to tell stories, it’s gonna be to tell stories, because I mean, I’m obsessed with looking at the psychology of story and actually, the physiology of stories. And there’s some awesome research being shown that, that stories physically take up more space in people’s brains, it lights up more more neurons. And what’s awesome, if you look at the psychology of a story is if you tell a story, people hearing that story, reading that story cannot help put themselves into that story in the first person, which means they have to emotionally connect with it. They have to start feeling things. You can’t feel anything about a list of five reasons you should listen to the Email Marketing Show podcast. What is it? I tell you a story about something funny that happened one day when we were recording the podcast, you’d be like, Oh, that’s so funny. I’ve got to hear that. Why? Because you suddenly felt something. Yeah, yeah, show up every single day with actual value, not just saying buy my stuff, then you can email every single day.

Adam G. Force 27:50

Yeah. And let’s define value. Because I think that can be misunderstood by some people. It’s not just giving away all your how to insights, right? It’s, it’s the what’s in the wise and and i think coming from your perspective, for both you guys, it’s entertaining people, like we don’t have to go super deep and spend three days creating a complex email, it could be, you know, 100 words of a little story about how you screwed up the day before recording a podcast. And that’s just you’re creating a connection, right? Is that kind of like, how do you define the value factor?

Rob 28:22

Yeah, totally. I mean, we break it down into a few different things. And that we’ve like we’ve we’ve gone so deep into this, not because we wanted to teach it, but just because we needed a really efficient and good way of doing it in the first year. But we realized that all the types of value in the world and there’s a bunch of them really fall into like two camps that you want people to the you’re going to express. And that’s basically stuff that you want to teach people stuff that they’re going to learn and they’re going to be able to go and do something with. And then stuff that they’re going to be able to like feel like it’s got an emotional value to it in some respects. So what we find is that a lot of the time, so every single day, we send emails, and between us, we send four emails every day for different businesses. So like, there’s no and we don’t work that hard. So there’s no like, it’ll take me too long excuse here. And so we deliver value in those emails. But it’s very rarely like a really hard solid lesson. Like we’re not like, for example, we share in loads of stuff on this podcast. We can’t take all of this and try and cram it into an email. Ordinarily, it’s one little tip, one little idea, one little story and even the story has value in it. So one of our favorite email strategies and email structures is to start every email with a little story. And those stories can be totally random things in the last few days, my emails to our email marketing heroes audience have included the fact that I finally took it upon myself to throw out some old socks that had holes in but I didn’t really want to, but I just chose to in the end, I found the inner strength to do it. What yesterday’s email was about the fact that I’ve fallen in love with is horrendous. Reality TV dating show called married at first sight, and I’ve been binge watching 41 episodes of that. So like, these are totally innocuous random things that appear to have nothing to do with what they do. And not that they don’t appear to have anything to do with email marketing, they don’t. But then what we do is we transition from that story into some kind of lesson. And so the way that we do that is we just in our heads, we just have this list of what we call our Maxim’s our rules, our principles, our concepts. And there’s probably I don’t know, we’ve never written them down, I would imagine, there’s probably a few dozen or a couple of 100 of these, like basic principles, they’re things like email more often deliver value, so in every email, all this stuff, and then basically what I do is I write them, I write the little story, and then transition into this little lesson. And you’re basically pulling the most relevant email marketing lesson you can find and sometimes it needs a shoe on and make it work. But you need to find the most relevant email marketing lesson or whatever it is that you’re whatever your industry is, and, and go from the story into that lesson, and then just transition from that lesson into a little offer. And that offer for us most of the time, it’s common, buy this thing, sometimes it would be listened to this podcast episode, or come register for this webinar, or buy the ticket for this event, or whatever. And effectively what that means is every single email we send out has a story, as Kennedy said, valuable and has lots of psychological benefits to them. The lesson that’s valuable too, but again, it’s a very soft teaching lesson into an offer. What it means is, if they’re ready to buy, the offer is great. It’s perfect for them. If they’re not ready to buy from you right now. That’s okay. The offer is almost invisible, not invisible in a bad way, like banner blindness, but like, they just don’t really notice. It doesn’t irritate them, because they got value from the rest of the email.

Adam G. Force 31:36

Right? Right. You don’t hammer them with it knocks honestly. Yeah. And I mean, the story, I think you made a great point, like, you can tell stories about your socks, or about, you know, these TV shows, and they can all be used to demonstrate a point, right, a lesson that you have. And, you know, like I mentioned, we are obsessed with stories here. This is our whole captivate program. So I love talking about this stuff. And, you know, there’s so many different ways to mine for stories. And I used to tell stories about the voice and all these different things when I was a wrestler when I was a kid, and no, it has no relevance to business. But it has a lesson that is relevant. So I think that’s a really important takeaway that you shared, for people to understand that you can have fun with this and still make a point that’s relevant to what you’re doing.

Kennedy 32:20

Totally. We have four different I think it’s for them to even be more I think there is more now because we’ve just extended basically, we’ve got a whole program called the complete daily email strategy. And one of the things we do is we talk about different ways of finding the stories. So I thought I’d share one with you right now. And I think you’ll find is really simple. All we do is ask ourselves, what is the least? What’s the least crap there? Or the least at least boring? What’s the least boring thing that happened in the last 24 hours? Now, the reason we’re not asking the question, what’s the most interesting thing is because psychologically in our heads that makes us go, oh, what was interesting, or nothing interesting ever happens to me, I was stuck at home. That was a pandemic, I couldn’t possibly, for whatever reason, think about something interesting. So if you ask yourself, what’s the least boring thing that happened in the last 24 hours? Okay, of all the boring things, what’s the least boring thing? Oh, my girlfriend had to go to the dentist for an emergency appointment this morning. So that’s the least boring thing. And I’m going to start writing the email. And here’s the thing, right, the start writing the story, write the email, before you know how it relates to your lesson, just start writing the story. And as those words come out of your fingertips, you will start thinking, Oh, that’s how it relates. Almost never, when I sit down, actually, I stand at my bench, I’m boiling the kettle in the morning to make my first cup of tea. So that’s how I literally write mine. By the way, in the morning, I literally put the kettle on to make a first cup of tea. And as it’s boiling, it takes about four minutes, I write this, I write the email, and I just write the story standing at the band at the bench in the morning. And I’ve got no idea what the lesson is gonna be I just write the story. She had a really sore mouth, he didn’t sleep at all last night, that’s going to be tomorrow’s email. I know it’s going to be and so I’m gonna I’m gonna write that out. And then I will transition into figuring out what the lesson is. And then Oh, and by the way, if you want I help implementing this lesson, we’ve got our membership program called the League of email marketing heroes. Oh, we’ve got this course or whatever, to your relevant offer, whether it’s paid or a free offer.

Adam G. Force 34:25

Yeah, yeah. I love that. Yeah. And I like the idea of the least boring and kind of just get it going because people get analysis paralysis. What, what is that lesson? You know, one of the ways that we talk about mining for stories is we do we teach something called the story vault, and it’s about so yeah. It’s like surrounding yourself, like putting yourself in the story mindset, right? Like you’re surrounded in a world of stories. So when you’re watching a movie, and you’re watching a TV show, and you see maybe something half.

Kennedy 35:00

And in an hour training. It’s funny though, because we’re all thinking about that same sort of thing.

Adam G. Force 35:06

And that’s the thing. Well, you take a note, put it in the vault be like, Oh, man, that was a great way to they made this point, right. And you’re like this story made this point, boom. I mean, you just start collecting, like all these frickin stories. Next thing, you know, you become a story marketer, like you’re no longer lost for content, you have all this shit built up. I love the way you approached it and just like, get the idea. Think about it, write it down. And then at the same time, you’ll be like building up this vault with all these ideas. But you won’t do that. Unless you’re looking for it. It’s like, Hey, I’m gonna buy this Range Rover. And you never noticed Range Rovers before. But now that you’re thinking about it, you see it everywhere. Right? So same thing is I guess the we’re, I think we’re on we’re diving on the same page with this stuff. Awesome. Yeah. So I want to talk a little bit, and we’ll we’ll wrap up here. But I wanted to touch on subject lines, open rates, right. What are you seeing as like, when it’s done, right? And it’s like, Hey, is the 15% open rate? Totally sucky, I maybe when people were interested like that welcome series, like we should be hammering 50% open rates, you know, like, so. Tell me a little bit about your thoughts on subject lines? Because I think people get stuck there. I have this. I have the story. I typed it up. It’s awesome. Wait, how do I get people to open this email? What’s the subject line? So maybe share a little bit about your thoughts on subject lines?

Rob 36:30

Yeah, so first of all, Kennedy, do you want to drop the open rate bombshell? And then after that?

Kennedy 36:36

Yeah, so open rates are not a not a good metric to to look at really, they’re not okay. Like, well, here’s the thing, right? open rates reporting is fundamentally completely flawed, like it is completely inaccurate. And the reason it’s inaccurate, and that’s not to do with which system you use or anything like that. It’s because of how it works. So a little bit of geekery for you, because nobody wants to have this for a pub quiz. In case you ever get asked this question, the way that open rate reporting works is your email marketing platform. So whether it’s MailChimp keep Active Campaign, whatever you’re using ConvertKit, many, what the way that they work, is they put a little invisible transparent, one pixel by one pixel image into your email. That’s how they work. And then when you open your email, and that image loads by going back to your server, that says to your email marketing love, oh, that person’s opened the email. The problem with that is that there are a lot and a growing number two of platforms, which now actively block that reporting, anybody opening an email on an Android phone, blocked, opening it on Mozilla, Thunderbird, blocked, PRI, it won’t be long, I don’t think until Apple block it as well. And what the reason for that is, they are increasing the security around emails, of course they are they have to write as they’re introducing more technologies, they have to increase EQ and other things. So the good news, the bad news is email open rate is a is not a good number to to really track as something that’s real. So that’s why one of the things when we teach our revival campaign, which is the campaign we use to reengage and get people back to, to, to, to opening your email system. We say to people don’t use the metric of open people who haven’t opened for 30 6090 days as a reason to put them back into your revival campaign. Because the truth is, you might be emailing people go and you have an open for a little while not be going, Yeah, have open every day, I love you, I think you’re wonderful. Look at your hand, some of you lovely had in your lovely beard, you’re lovely. They, they think you’re being a bit eager that. So don’t use open rates, because they’re not they’re not a very good indicator. What you can use, though, is click rates, because they are really accurate. Because when someone clicks on a link in your email actually goes via your email marketing system and then to the page you’re sending them through. So that’s a really good number. So what is the number we should be tracking? And then Rob is going to give you some ideas on on subject lines. And actually, why subject lines are not the number one reason that people open your emails, so often all that and the second, which is, again, no one’s talking about this stuff, and we’ve done a lot of testing on this right? So the, the metric we do look at so the the sort of Northstar metric for email marketing, we look at his earnings per subscriber per month, earnings per subscriber per month. And the way you calculate that is really easy. You just go your email system and go right back in January how many subscribers that I have on my list? I had 1000. Great. How much money did I make from selling to that list? I made $1,000. Divide one number by the other. That means I made $1 per subscriber on my list. That’s my earning personal job. I must do the same for February. And did you make $1? Did you make less? Oh, that’s a bad sign you did something effects? Or did you make more? Did you make $1.20 per subscriber on your list per month? What we’re looking for is the trend because email marketing, like the rest of your business, like your Instagram, like your Twitter following is a one player game. You are only playing against yourself. It doesn’t matter what my open rate is, it doesn’t matter what Adams open rate is, or Rob’s open rate is all that big internet gurus and open rate as that doesn’t matter. What does matter is, is yours improving? Or is it declining? If yours is improving, you’re moving forward. If it’s declining, don’t decline back to the gurus, open rate, oh, he’s only getting 12%. But I’m getting 60. But I’m getting close. And as cuz I’m down to 55. That’s a terrible metric. Instead, your open rate is a one player game and your earnings per subscriber per month is a one player game.

Adam G. Force 41:07

Interesting. Just before we jump in there, Rob wanted to just get clear on the small pixel picture they were mentioning, that’s something that is integrated into the code of the email, is that what I’m hearing and literally that get triggered through preview windows?

Kennedy 41:27

So no, it’s literally a such a tiny picture you can’t see. And it’s clear, literally all the way the open rate reporting works is it’s just looking for whether that pixel loaded or not, that’s literally how it works.

Adam G. Force 41:38

Okay. Okay. And now they’re blocking that pixel

Kennedy 41:41

They’re blocking that, they’re blocking that code from going back to the email system. God, oh, that picture loaded. It’s about you know, sometimes you open up an email, and the images haven’t loaded. Yeah, it’s similar sort of thing. But it’s also not going back there.

Adam G. Force 41:56

That’s really interesting.

Kennedy 41:57

But the good news, Adam, is that it’s consistently inaccurate, which means if your open rate is going up and down, that is reflective, because also last week, when you’re comparing it to last week, it was also inaccurate. So it’s relative to the other inaccuracies, if that makes sense.

Adam G. Force 42:14

Yeah, yeah, I got you. All right.

Kennedy 42:18

Rob, do you want to share about the subject line not being the number one reason?

Rob 42:24

Yeah, subject lines are obviously important. And we’ll cover some ideas for how you come up with good ones. But actually, the primary thing really comes down to and this is good news and bad news, the primary thing really comes down to a whole bunch of factors, things like the relationship you’ve got with the list, there are people who I’ve ended up subscribed to whose emails I will open. And it doesn’t matter what the subject line is, like, I don’t care, I’m not looking, it’s not going to catch me out with a clever subject line, and I’ll open it go Oh, so what’s actually happening here is I’m looking for the people I like to read from and I’ll open their emails if they put nothing in the subject line. And I think that’s a really interesting thing that people overlook, what people are looking for, is the clever subject line strategy, which we’ll get onto, don’t worry, the clever subject line strategy that’s going to get people to open their emails, because then because the relationship isn’t there. So it’s one of the things having like, are getting to know your sequence or something similar in place will really help with that. and maintaining, you know, all the other stuff. We’ve talked about, you know, high levels of engagement, maintaining the fact that you’re going to be relevant, and you’re going to, you know, talk to people about the stuff that’s interesting to them on a level that is interesting to them. But, I mean, there’s like 12, there’s 12 things we’ve identified as what we call subconscious triggers, to get your emails opened. If you if you join our free Facebook group, which we’ll talk about the Email Marketing Show community, there’s actually a training in there that talks about these 12, subconscious triggers. And the subject line is one of them. And then the others, the others are not. So there’s little nuclear, however, on to the question you asked, which is subject lines. You’re right, most people get stuck. And they get stuck for one of two reasons. either, because they sit down to write their email, and lots of email marketing platforms, say you want to send an email, click the Email button. So you click the Email button, and it says, What would you like to call the email and you give it a name? Like, you know, today’s email? And then it says, What’s the subject line going to be? And then go on? Well, how can they know they haven’t written anything yet? So what we suggest is if your email marketing platform does that, put anything you want in there, and then move on, we actually have a placeholder thing, which is just the merch…

Kennedy 44:24

Yeah, yeah, don’t put like any old shit here in case you accidentally press send. Because we have fiction, I say that I’ve out of send an email that said any old shit here.

Rob 44:36

Yeah, so we have, by default, our templates have just their first name in the subject line. So worst case scenario, you’ll accidentally send an email where the subject line is just their name, which by the way, is a great subject line, so you should give it a try sometime. Anyway. So just put, put whatever you want in there, and then get that you’d be happy to send by accident, and then get into your email, write the email, and most of the time I like most of our email Follow that story lesson offer structure. So what we tend to do is just say what’s interesting, what can I pull out of the story, and then work that around to be something that is interesting, curiosity driven, usually, in our case, nothing to do with email marketing, again, we tend to pull it from the story or something from the lesson. So like, an example I always give is the fact that at the age of 33, which I am now, I, for the first time have had to buy a mattress, because like, I originally, when I first moved out of my parents, I took the one that I had from there. And I’ve just had that ever since I think. So I’ve never ordered a mattress as a grown man. So I recently ordered this mattress. And when it arrived, there was a knock on the door, and I opened the door. And there’s one man stood with like a big box on his shoulder like that. And he put it down. And I clearly looked confused. And he said, Oh, it’s your mattress. And I clearly looked even more confused. Because I was expecting to man with a big box that were shaped like a mattress, I didn’t know they vacuum packed mattresses that was used to me. So this guy when he marrison, I looked confused. And he said, we’ve actually unpack them now. And I was like, Mind blown moment. And so that was going to be that was clearly going to be the story for my email that day. So I got to the computer, and I wrote it out. And it was about the fact this mystery box has appeared at my door. And I don’t know what it is, it doesn’t look like anything I’ve ordered, but it’s quite sizable. And that was the sort of point of it. So now that gives me a whole scope of different subject lines, things like mystery, deliver mystery parcel, what’s in this box, anything to do with that sort of story. And so I think the subject line ended up being what’s in this box, dot dot dot. Now, that brings me on to the other thing you want to do with this is you want to give that you want to leave them with a reason to open the email. What loads of people do is that they mess this up for one or two reasons, or two of two reasons. Number one, is they’ll say things like their subject line might be the number one, the number one strategy to grow your Instagram in 2021, or whatever. And then the problem with that is, if I’m not interested in Instagram, I’ve got no reason to open the email, even if even if the thing inside it would change my mind it would it would make me realize the benefits of it. I would watch the sales video the webinar, I think, Oh my god, I need to get this now. They’ve killed the sale with the subject line. Right. So first things first, that’s the first problem. The second problem is that if I’ve heard you teach your Instagram growth strategy before, I know what that is, now, I don’t need to open the email, even if you’ve changed your mind, the 2020 growth strategy might have been something different. And in 2021, you need to be doing this. So I’m now missing out on that, because I heard you talk about it, what feels like a week ago, but was last year. And I don’t know what the new one is. And the worst bit is when people see the word Instagram growth strategy, or whatever. And this applies in every nation, every industry and everything. And I don’t know what it is. And I’ve never heard you talk about it before. But I think I’ve probably got a good idea I’ve got that’s why in copy, you see a lot the number one way to get more traffic to your website in brackets. It’s not what you think that standard line of copy that loads of people use is there because people have their own opinion on what they think you’re you’re going to teach. So we always lead with things like if I put the subject line what’s in this box, and then a puzzled emoji that gets really good opens and it there’s nothing that none of that is there to stop somebody from opening it. That’s our approach to subject lines.

Adam G. Force 48:12

Right? So you build like, hey, as storytellers we’re building tension, right? So that curiosity factor that’s in there, you’re not being specific to something. So either being very curious, and maybe speaking to like a point of drama, The mystery box, that was like shocking, right? Or maybe and let me know if you guys agree with this, but you know, kind of leading into the ultimate. I guess Ben like I want to say benefit to them. Like, you know, it could be something instead of being like learn more Instagram crochet, or she says could just be like, how to sell more in 2021 minutes ago? Well, I want sales. And then I’m going to I’m going to tell you that you need to use this Instagram strategy. Right? So maybe that kind of is a better way to approach these things. Is that kind of fall in line with what you’re trying to say?

Kennedy 48:58

Sure. I mean, one of the things you don’t want to do as well with your subject line is Yeah, habits on the thing. I think I know what that’s gonna be. So if you have like, you know, what, I don’t know insert name of celebrity taught me about what I learned from watching the Queen’s speech about Instagram, or you know, whatever you want to be like, I don’t know what that is, what if I might know what my favorite thing for 2021 is? The other thing people tend to get wrong with with subject lines. Just to add on to what Rob was saying is they tend to answer the question in the subject line. So why Instagram is the number one way to grow your email list. Oh, I don’t need to open that email anymore. Cuz I know the answer to the question is Instagram. Like, there’s no reason we have a thing called the date test for subject lines, which is you’ve got to imagine somebody on a date but the hardest person ever, you know, like you want to date was only super hot, like Rob or somebody hot, right? So imagine you’re on a date with someone and their phone, or your phone. So you your phones face up on the table. And you’re you’re getting on Well, they’re laughing at your jokes, you’re laughing at their jokes, you touch their hand, they touch yours, you have a little giggle. It’s all lovely. And it’s all going so beautifully well, and your phone flashes up with just the subject line of that email. The question is, will the person go hang on a second? I’ve got to read this email if they will. It’s a really good subject line.

Adam G. Force 50:29

Yeah, that’s nice. Let’s wrap up on that. That’s good little note. So listen, if people want to learn more about email marketing connect with you guys see what you got going on? follow you, whatever tickles their fancy. How do they get in touch with you? where’s the best place for them to look?

Rob 50:48

Yeah, you can call Kennedy on 0772. I’m gonna be I don’t want to be presumptive, right. But I’m going to assume that you like podcasts. And if you do, then you could definitely check out our podcast. It’s called the Email Marketing Show. It’s every single week, one week, it’s me and Kennedy, then the next week, it’s me and Kennedy with a guest then the next week. It’s me and Kennedy, that it’s me and Kennedy when you get the idea. And basically we talk about all things email marketing related, everything you can possibly imagine. It’s a lot of fun, it has the world’s most annoying podcast theme tune that will be lodged firmly in your head for a long time to come. So if you like what you’ve heard so far, and you want to hear more ramblings and amusement like this, then definitely check out the Email Marketing Show on Spotify and all the podcast places.

Adam G. Force 51:31

Cool, cool, cool.

Kennedy 51:32

Yeah. And if you want to come and hang out in our community, we have a free Facebook group, which we created to chat about how do you implement this stuff? or Why do you get your questions answered? Because we understand that your business, your situation is different. You’re at a different stage, you’re thinking, Okay, this is great, guys. But how do I implement this for myself, we don’t want to leave you high and dry with that. So we create a community and we call it the Email Marketing Show community. It’s a free Facebook group. We’re really good at email marketing, but not very good at naming things. So we just put the word community on the end of the Email Marketing Show. So yeah, so so if you go to Facebook and look for the Email Marketing Show community and actually right on the way into the group, if you want to get our daily emails which are funny, inspirational, give you tips on the way into the group, one of the questions that you don’t have to answer but you can if you’d like is would you like to receive our daily emails, if you put your email address into that box, you’ll start receiving our daily emails, you’ll see our getting to know your sequence in action, and all the other stuff that that we that we do, but like I said, it’s not essential that you join our email list to join the group. We would just love to help you out any way that we possibly can.

Adam G. Force 52:39

Sweet, awesome guys, I appreciate both taking the time to be on the show and just share your insights I think the people listening will find a lot of value in it. So thanks again.

Kennedy 52:49

Thanks for having us

Rob 52:49

Thank you

Adam G. Force 52:55

Thanks for tuning into the Change Creator podcast. Visit us at Change creator.com forward slash go big to get access to free downloads and other great resources that will drive your business forward.

David Mead: Leadership That Wins in Today’s Market

Listen to our exclusive interview with David Mead:

Subscribe to this show on Spotify  |  iTunes  |  Stitcher  |  Soundcloud

What is giving business leaders the edge today? What has held some back while others rise to the top? We spoke with Simon Sinek’s co-author, David Mead to learn more about what they are seeing on the front lines with companies and dig into exactly what you need to know to win today.

Learn more about David and his work at > www.davidjmead.com

We also recommend:

Transcription of Interview

(Transcribed by Otter.ai, there may be errors)

Adam G. Force 00:03

Welcome to the Change Creator podcast where entrepreneurs come to learn how to live their truth, get rich and make a massive difference in the world. I’m your host, Adam Force co founder, Change Creator and co creator of the captivate method. Each week we talk to experts about leadership, digital marketing and sales strategies that you can implement in your business and life to go big, visit us at Change Creator.com forward slash go big to grab awesome resources that will help drive your business forward. What’s up, and welcome back to the Change Creator podcast show. This is your host, Adam force. So today we have a really interesting conversation. Now you might have heard of Simon Sinek. Simon Sinek is famous for breaking down the idea of having a why. And he did his TED Talk. And he had a couple of books. And one of those books was called finding your why. And he had a co author actually had two co authors with that book, and one of them is David Meade. Hopefully I’m pronouncing his last name, right. But David is a super sharp guy. And you know, he worked obviously with Simon. And as co author of that book, he’s now moved on, he does a lot of keynote talks at different companies and supports different businesses with the strategies that they unpack. And he has a new book coming out that we’re going to kind of tap into because there’s some really great insights that he brings to the table, and we’re going to work through them, he’s going to share some of those details that will help kind of like, guide you into taking the right steps for the future of your business and and what that might look like. So this is a great conversation on leadership. That is important in today’s marketing world. Now, if you missed the last episode of the podcast, we spoke with David Wood. So yeah, another David, David would was a really great conversation about mastering your mind and business for progress. He is a coach, he’s worked a lot of coaches, a lot of companies. He’s been highlighted in Forbes and all these crazy places, tons of experience. So if you missed that call, there’s a lot of good nuggets, he takes us through His nine steps that will help you get more clarity in your business and stay on the right direction. So we break all that down in that conversation. Alright guys, make sure you stop by Change Creator comm forward slash go big, get some goodies there and check out the latest content. And leave us a review on iTunes. That’s always really appreciated. If there’s any way you could ever kind of like return the favor. We share all this content, all the stuff we would love to hear have your support with an iTunes review. Obviously, this helps us with the rankings and all that kind of fun stuff. Just all part of the game here. So your review, and feedback is always really appreciated. Alright guys, we’re not going to hold this up anymore. Let’s dive into this conversation and talk with David on this topic. Okay, show me the heat. Hey, David, what’s up, man? Welcome to the Change Creator podcast show how you doing today?

David Mead 03:11

Hey, Adam, I’m good. Thanks for having me on.

Adam G. Force 03:13

You got it. excited to have you here, you got quite an interesting background full of cool experience, ranging from writing books and working with Simon Sinek. So you know, I want to tap into all this stuff and some of the things that you’ve been working on. But before we do, I always like to just get a little bit about, what are you working on? Like right now in your current, you know, day like what’s hot for you? What’s top of mind? And then I like to get a little background on like, What got you there?

David Mead 03:42

Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, what I’m working on, sort of first and foremost is as a book that’s coming out toward the end of this year, if all goes well.

Adam G. Force 03:51


David Mead 03:52

And, you know, also putting some of those thoughts that I’m writing into the book into talks and workshops, and, you know, consulting with clients that I’m doing along the way to keep learning and hopefully making the book better as I write it.

Adam G. Force 04:03

Yeah, awesome. And so tell us a little just a bit about your background, so people know, like, where you’re coming from and what you do, but also why you’re good at what you do.

David Mead 04:15

Sure. So I started my career in corporate training. I was in sales training, I was doing sales forever, and just couldn’t seem to ever get out of it, which I really wanted to do, because I’m not into sales much in the traditional sense, you know, some people just are so good at it. And I was not so I got into training instead because those who can’t do teach as we’ve heard, and so I joined a Yellow Page company back when Yellow Pages was a thing. And I was doing sales training and I really enjoyed it. I loved seeing the light come on. I love giving people you know, the tips and the tools and the resources to be able to be great at what they did and what they wanted to do. The thing that was a bit unfulfilling for me is you know, as most people know, sales in sales turnover is pretty high. And so I would spend And all this time and energy and effort training these folks. And then you know, three to six months later, most of them were gone. And they were on to something else. And I thought, it’s like it doesn’t, I don’t know if anything that I did for them actually stuck. And so I left I actually started my own. In a completely different vein, I started my own kitchen and bath restoration company, right around 2007 2008, you can imagine how that went. And then, through a confluence of events, I ended up as a as a trainer, again, leading the sort of the training and development for this little startup in Salt Lake City where I live, and it was a door to door sales company. And through that, I met a guy by the name of Simon Sinek. Back in 2009, nobody really knew who he was at the time, many of your listeners may now know who he is. But yeah, he’s an author and a thought leader and ended up working with him for about 10 years and sharing his ideas, through speaking and workshops and a little bit of consulting and then left his team in December of 2019. Right before COVID, and 2020 was a journey, just like it has been for everybody else, just you know, sorting things out and pivoting and getting into more, you know, online digital stuff. Because, you know, all the in person stuff just vanished overnight.

Adam G. Force 06:22

No doubt about that. And so I guess, tell me a little bit about what are some things that you learned when working with Simon Sinek. And I always say Sinek, and you told you told me already? It’s

David Mead 06:37

I think I mean, I think the thing that struck me the most, and it’s again, it’s something that I already knew kind of going into it, but how important the the human element is to the work we do until leadership. And I think it’s, it’s something that we sort of naturally already know, as human beings, but when we get into a work environment, and we have, you know, all the pressures and the stresses that come along with that, whether it be you know, just figuring out what we’re doing, as we’re starting out our business, or hiring new people, or, you know, managing projects, all these things, especially if we’re new at what we’re doing. Yeah, let all these things get in the way of taking care of the people. And, you know, we focus more on, excuse me, we focus more on managing the business. And we sort of neglect the people. Whereas if we take care of the people, they’ll actually take care of the business for us. And I think that’s one of the biggest things that I learned.

Adam G. Force 07:29

Yeah, so you, so you have taken a departure from the customer’s always right formula?

David Mead 07:38

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you know, sometimes they are, and sometimes they’re not. But I think, what whatever the situation is, I think, and this is part of what what I talked about in the book, and maybe we’ll dive into it a little bit more, is whenever we make a decision, how do we keep the human being that’s involved, or the human beings that are involved? Top of Mind in that decision? Customer, maybe right customer may be wrong, we may do something that’s good for the company, or good for the customer, and depending on the situation, but how do we do our best to take care of the human and help them to know, and to feel that we’re actually taking care of them so that we can, you know, continue that relationship?

Adam G. Force 08:15

Yeah, I love that. And I see more of this mentality, surfacing as time goes on, you know, we’re seeing more of this social entrepreneurship trend, which means the way we think about business and the way we approach it is changing, right? We’re putting more intention behind it. And I think that we’re kind of getting back to this idea of re humanizing our marketing and the way we manage teams, right. I know on our team, it has helped like, everyone talks about sales funnels. And the way we talk about that is by saying digital conversations, because really, it’s like, you talked about door to door sales, you sit down for an hour, you have this conversation, and you’re doing the same conversation you do online, so we call it the digital conversation. So we can remember, we’re talking to people, not clicks, you know, not targets. It makes a difference in your perception.

David Mead 09:06

It really doesn’t I think that the word you just said the perception is such a big thing. And I my my dear friend, Peter Docker has a distinction that we use all the time, which is the difference between doing and being. When you’re doing something, you can be really good at what you’re doing. But depending on who you’re being, when you’re doing that thing, it comes with what you’re doing comes across completely differently. So you can talk to a click where you can talk to a human, you can say the exact same words, but what’s your perception? What’s the perspective that you have in your mind of who you’re talking to? Are you talking to a revenue dollar? Or are you talking to a human who has a need, right? You’re gonna say the exact same words, but the way you show up in the environment that you create and how you occurred to that person, they can feel it. Yeah, even if you’re saying the exact same thing.

Adam G. Force 09:51

Very, very, very good point. I’m glad you said that. I mean, you think about when you’re young and you’re just do that you’re in high school and you’re trying to you know, Data girl, right? You can go there and reek of desperation. Or you can be very confident and it comes off. You could say the same things, but one way is gonna work well on the other ways not. Right.

David Mead 10:12

Right. And we’ve never done that, by the way, I’m happy.

Adam G. Force 10:15

Yeah. Hey, I’m Adam gotta go. Man. Yeah, it you know, and I love seeing it go in this direction, this is something that I feel with the internet boom has been kind of it’s, it’s been derailed, right. But since that has happened, it’s all about quick bait, who can get the most clicks and all these things, and it just had this quick shift. But that is, I think, caused a lot of red flags in people’s minds as buyers and consumers and things like that. So now we have to navigate those things, you know, pop up blockers, right?

David Mead 10:58

Yeah, um, you know, I think of, uh, you know, I mean, like, like you said, the, the online thing has sort of derailed everything, I think, one company that just popped into my mind that has been doing this so well, for so long is Zappos. And they were doing, you know, this long before a lot of us were. And I think in granted, like, you know, they’re, they’re, they, the traditional way they used to do is their customer service was over the phone. And now we’re doing a lot of stuff, you know, online and through chat and that kind of thing. But I think, you know, even with the the online commerce platform that they were using, they were so good at making sure that they were taking care of the person and I think you can, it’s more difficult through chat, because you missed the nuance and you missed the tone and you missed the you know, those things that voice and those nonverbals give you but we can still do it, we can still show that there’s a human on the other side, we can still show that we’re not just, you know, using, uh, you know, we’re not using just macros, or we’re not using just the things that we send out to everybody. And I think we can really personalize that and it takes more time, it takes more effort, it’s harder. But those are the companies I think that really stand out, those are the people that that will attract that loyalty that that is so hard to get.

Adam G. Force 12:05

I agree 100%. And if you come of that mind, you’re not going to send somebody to this maze of automated phone crap that nobody wants to go through. Like, as soon as you hear that, you just want to roll your eyes and be like, EFF this.

David Mead 12:22

I don’t want to ask the community, I just want to talk to a person, you know what I mean?

Adam G. Force 12:26

Press one for this, press two for that circle as you go and Circle Circle Circle. Same thing with the chat bots, like you know, when you have some stupid chat bot or somebody that really just knows nothing about the company, or they’re just kind of facilitating a script. You’re already saying that you don’t care enough about the customer to do it the right way, because you’re more worried about automation and cost. Right. So right. It makes a major difference.

David Mead 12:53

I’m not saying that that automation is not a good thing. I’m not saying that, you know, watching your cost is not a good thing. I’m not saying that you got to sacrifice the financial part of your business for the culture part of your business. So what I’m saying, I think what so many people think is that we have to sacrifice one for the other? Well, if I if I really work on my culture, and my people, then I’m going to sacrifice the money. Or if I, you know, sacrifice the money, if I’m going after the money, then I’m going to sacrifice my people. It doesn’t have to be that way. You can have both. And there’s so many examples of companies that are doing it right.

Adam G. Force 13:20

Yeah, yeah. No, and I’m glad you made that point. Because you’re right, it can be misunderstood. There’s always an end, if you are thinking in this way, but this perspective, you know, and you are taking care of the people, like you’re saying is so important. You just make different decisions, it doesn’t mean you’re less profitable, right? So it could end up that you’re more profitable because of those decisions. Right?

David Mead 13:45

Yeah. And I think the the, the trap that we fall into is, I don’t want to call it a trap, necessarily. But I think, again, going back to that idea of the perception that we have is, if I make a decision that doesn’t benefit me right now, it’s not the right decision. And I know especially for you know, new companies, companies that are that are that have a lot of a lot of desire for growth, and they want to, you know, grow and sell or whatever. It’s about, what can I do right now to maximize profits? What can I do in the short term to make things better, especially if we’re strapped for cash, especially if we need that revenue coming in? Of course, we’re gonna make those decisions. And that’s okay. But keeping that in balance with what’s the long term? What am I really here for? What am I trying to do over the long term? And how is it How is this decision going to maybe benefit me down the road rather than right now being able to have the wisdom to make those sacrifices when it makes sense?

Adam G. Force 14:35

Yeah, I think that’s a great way to to, to phrase that up. So I’m curious, you know, obviously, the whole why conversation with Simon Sinek is very popular. Just getting to that root of why we’re doing what we’re doing, remembering this intention. Anything and I want to talk about your book. I think he said the, you know, placeholder title behind the curtain, I’m wondering if there’s anything you took away from the process of Simon synnex book that is gonna help you with this book, anything you learn there?

David Mead 15:14

Yeah, of course, I mean, you know, the obviously the reason that I joined his team was because I feel very strong, I still do have the importance of having that sense of purpose in the work that we do. And you know, look at it transcends beyond work. Also, this is not a work concept. You know, that the interesting thing was that the reason that we as a as a team, when I was working with Simon, the reason we went after businesses, was because that’s where we were going to reach the most people. This is not a business concept. This is a human concept, right? And so I think what what I’ve taken from that is, what is it about, just in general, what it is, what is it about humans, that makes us work well together? What is it that that builds that trust, whether it’s at work, or whether it’s at home between our spouses and our kids, or our, you know, roommates or friends, or whatever it is, it’s really what I took from it is what’s the humanity that that we’re missing? And so, you know, as I as I dive into this new book that I’m writing, it’s sort of at a 40,000 foot view, as I as I sort of take stock of my career, my working life, even, you know, from one of my first jobs when I was 17, in the bagel shop, right all the way to what I’m doing now, I look back, and I see one thing in leadership that I think is more damaging, more potentially damaging than anything else. And I have seen and experienced and observed because I’ve worked with hundreds of companies over the last decade or so. But one of the things that I’ve seen and experienced myself over that, you know, these 2030 years is that 30 years note, not quite that long, let’s still stick with 20 I’m gonna stick with 2020 years or so is that the thing that’s one of the things that’s most damaging is when a leader says something, they say they stamp or something, say they believe something or enforce something that they don’t do themselves. Right, they say one thing, and then they turn around and do something else. Whether that be you know, enforcing a policy, making sure that all the employees do this thing, but then they don’t do it themselves, or talking about how important the company values are. But then you see them doing something that’s not that. And that what that does, is it it, it breaks trust, it increases cynicism. You know, it does all these damaging things, self preservation, right, we watch out for ourselves, we can’t trust each other, we don’t collaborate. So if you’re trying to build a business, if you’re trying to grow, innovate, collaborate all these things and build trust, and you’re doing those kinds of things. It doesn’t work, the two do not mix. And we noticed this, you know, we see in big companies, right, there was a VW scandal, there was a Wells Fargo scandal, you see it in CEOs, you see it in, you know, entertainers, you see all these people that were putting on this act. And then all of a sudden, they get exposed for doing something that they were kind of hiding, right? And all of a sudden trust is lost. And we in you know, we don’t trust them anymore. So it’s easy to point the finger at those examples and say, Oh, well, man, that was stupid, I would never do that. But we are all susceptible to it. We all do it. Right. And think about how prevalent it is, we think of the the terms that we use are the things that we use to describe when people do these things. Right. We talked about keeping up appearances. We talk about, oh, they’re pulling the wool over people’s eyes, right? They’re putting on a show they’re being two faced, all of these things are exactly what I’m talking about is that we’re doing things that are not in line with what we actually stand for what we actually say that we believe. And so the this idea that, you know, we’re above it, we’re not. And we somehow think that we can put up this curtain, and that we can hide who we truly are, and then put on this performance that is going to keep everybody at bay, right? The issue is, the problem is that curtain is an illusion. It’s not actually there, right? So if we’re doing things that are not really in line with who we truly are, or what we truly believe, it’s gonna get found out at some point or other. And the scary part is we’re not the ones that pull back, pull back that curtain. It’s somebody else that does it for us, right? So if you’re out there saying something and not being real, and not being in integrity with who you are, and what you stand for, people are gonna find out. It’s just a matter of time, right? So the book gets into this idea of, you know, what’s behind the curtain is our character. And we can either choose to intentionally build a strong character, or we can just act as a character and hope that that day that the curtain gets pulled back never comes. And that the whole idea is because that that curtain is an illusion is something we create not actually there. The thing I lost my train of thought, do you ever do that?

Adam G. Force 19:58

I do it all the time. I’ve been on interviews where somebody asked me a question, I start answering it. I’m like, wait, what was the question again?

David Mead 20:04

Yeah, I never did that. But this idea that, you know, we if we build a strong character, yeah, it removes the need for the curtain. We don’t need to lie fake and hide it.

Adam G. Force 20:15

We’re not hiding anything, right? You kind of get you kind of, like hit what you said before, which is, you know whether it is blatantly said and you’re found out, like you mentioned VW and Wells Fargo, right? It may be that blatant. But it also may be just the feeling and the red flag that someone gets, and they don’t buy from you, right? Because they feel off. It’s like going to, if I say that we are, we can help you master your brand, we have a thing called brand mastery, right? And we help with your design, we help with the user experience, convert more sales, your brand story, but then you go to my website, and it’s like the ugliest thing ever. Like, you know, it’s like, wait, it’s not right here.

David Mead 20:56

Yeah, I mean, the extreme examples are the easiest ones to see. Right. And I think the reason that we think, oh, I don’t do that, I would never do that. Maybe not. But we’re doing it in the more subtle ways, right? We’re doing it by, you know, bending the truth a little bit, or we’re doing it by, you know, just looking over our shoulder before we do something to make sure nobody’s watching like that. And the thing is, even if nobody’s ever watching, when we build and maintain a strong character ourselves, it bothers us, like, we can’t let ourselves do it. Because we know that it’s not not right, we know that we’re acting out of integrity with who we are.

Adam G. Force 21:29

Well, and this could be a limiting factor for your growth and success in some levels, because you’re gonna have an internal conflict with things that hold you back. Right? So you’re like, Yeah, why am I not making more money? Why am I not, you know, growing the team as fast as I thought, and it’s, you can have internal conflicts around these things that hold you back, if you don’t know for sure. It’s unconscious, right?

David Mead 21:51

And look, I’m not I’m not advocating for perfection, right? We’re not the goal is not to never do anything wrong. And I think what really defines a person’s character is what do they do when they get caught doing something that they’re not supposed to do? Because we all do, you know, people who have, who have not built a strong character, they’re the ones that will deny it, justify it, you know, explain it away. The ones that do have a strong character, have the humility and are able to see that as a learning opportunity. Like, shoot, I messed up. Yeah, to learn on this stuff myself. I’ll try to do better next time. Sorry, you know, absolutely. That’s what defines character to me.

Adam G. Force 22:29

Yeah, and it makes a huge difference to the people you serve. Because, you know, you come out and be like, I thought I was doing the right thing. You know, like, and I got, I was intimidated by this. So I said, You know, I did it this way, even though I kind of knew I shouldn’t like you just kind of own up, right. But if you’re not accountable, and you’re like, you know, some political figures that, you know, just push off and blame every little thing. You’re just kind of like, yeah, okay, buddy.

David Mead 22:55

Yeah, I wasn’t gonna bring that up. But we see that all the time. Right? We see it and politicians a lot. We see it in people in the media all the time, you know, all the business leaders all the time, all the time. And the good ones. I mean, I have seen examples of the good ones that come out and say, you know, what, we made a mistake. But most of the time, because of fear, because of insecurity, because of you know, whatever, we just explained it away. It’s not my fault. It was something something else, something external.

Adam G. Force 23:25

And I listen, I agree with you, 100%. And one of my favorite books I have over on my bookshelf is by t harv. eker. The, it’s something like the millionaire mindset or something like that. And he says, there’s three things you never do you never complain, blame or justify, right? So if you can kind of lean in, those are been my three roles. And when I learned them, I had them on a sticky note on my mirror and remind myself every day Don’t blame, don’t complain, and don’t justify just me accountable. And like one of the things I’ve been really into now just kind of leaning into where you’re going with, like character integrity, and I love that you brought that up as part of not just business, but just being a good human right? is we have to first and foremost, be honest with ourselves, like, Can you look in the mirror and be honest with yourself? Right, right. And most people are not doing that.

David Mead 24:22

Yeah. And you know, on that note, the this idea of like, great, how do we then as leaders or people and I don’t care if you have a leadership position or not, right? The idea is if you have influence if you’re a parent, if you’re an aunt and uncle, whatever, it doesn’t matter if you have an official leadership position. Yeah. But you know, what are the things that that help us to build that strong character so that we don’t need that curtain anymore? And I’ve really again, as I thought about the great leaders that I’ve had, and the things that they all have in common, they have a lot of traits in common, but I boiled it down to three main traits which are honest, humble and human. So this first idea is the honest one Can I be honest If myself, can I look at myself in the mirror and say and admit my, you know, when I’m doing something wrong? Yeah. And the big thing with me for honesty is am I doing the things I say? Am I performing the the, the behaviors and the communication that I actually believe in? Right? That’s the crux of what honest is humble is is just that it’s the ability to drop the ego. Yeah. Which is so hard to do, right? Like, I’m not perfect at this stuff. I never will be right. This is a journey. This is a pursuit, daily pursuit that we have to go after. But can I admit my own fallibility? can I learn from my mistakes? My humble enough to in the moment, when I screw something up to apologize, I can go back and do it three days later, right? When the emotions are down, but can I do it in the moment, so people really know that I’m sincere about it and want to make a change. And then the third thing is human. And this is something that I alluded to before, which is when we make a decision, especially in an early business, when there’s so many decisions to be made, and we you know, we’re facing things we’ve never done before. How do we make sure that the human beings who are affected by that decision are at the forefront of our minds, it doesn’t mean we’re not gonna lay somebody off, it doesn’t mean we’re gonna make a tough decision, but we have at least thought about the implication to the human being, that that decision will affect. And then along with with that human element, also is how do we pour everything that we have into that person so that they feel valued and valuable? Yeah. When you build honest, humble and human, when you have that kind of character, as a leader, you will build trust, you will build collaboration, you will make progress. You bring people together that want to be there, they’ll feel like they’re doing something that matters.

Adam G. Force 26:43

Yeah. And I think like that kind of stuff. And if you have the patience, and you are willing to be consistent with those things, you’ll see that progress, right? Do you have just from writing your book? Are there any examples of companies that have, I’m curious if there’s companies that have had a big turnaround because of leadership came in and they had these types of practices? Like I just found, like, I have an example this guy art barter came in, and he’s like, there was a company that was like a $10 million a year company. And he did this thing, kind of like we’re saying, This is servant leadership is what he called it right? Or being more honest, like humble, and like all these, like beautiful things that you want to see in somebody. And within like, just a few years, I guess, four years or five years, he turned it into a $200 million a year company. Yeah, I know, as I got to talk to this guy. I interviewed him. And that was one example it jives with what you’re saying it’s like, take this approach, give it time, like shifting a culture is very, very difficult. But if you’re consistent, and you have you lead by, like what you do, right, like lead by actions, and not just like telling people things, like you said, you gotta be a leader by action, that makes a big difference.

David Mead 28:06

It does. And, you know, the, for the last, you know, 10 years or so, as I’ve been traveling around, most of my interactions with companies have been very sort of short term I was I came in for a keynote or a couple day workshop. And so I know that examples are out there. And you know, most of the examples that that I lean to, or those that people have heard of, but I mean, I there have got to be 1000s of organizations out there that we’ve never heard of before, that are doing this exact same thing. A lot of the younger companies that I worked with, and this is I think, what the great opportunity, especially for people that are in the beginning stages of an organization is this is when you can do it. Right. This is when you have a chance to do it. Right. And and then you know, do it from the ground up, rather than having to unlearn all the bad stuff, you know, 1015 years down the road and turn it around. What a great opportunity to just do it right from the start. Right. And a lot of the a lot of the companies that were drawn to the work that I was doing, were did have that their hearts were in the right place. They weren’t perfect. They were still making mistakes, but they didn’t have to turn things around because they were already sort of on that path.

Adam G. Force 29:12

Yeah, we do see that that’s a great point. We see that with social entrepreneurs who are starting their businesses, you know, I know, a couple who I’ve interviewed multiple times, and we met out at conferences, and, you know, he runs a seven figure e commerce company now. And they have that they have started those companies with such good intentions as a business to begin with. But that’s also then just the kind of person that they are that they start managing the team and building the culture that way. And it’s just like this mindset of the social entrepreneur says, I want to do something meaningful, right? I want to make people’s lives better. That’s why I’m starting this business. It brings about a certain type of person to which tends to be honest and humble and all these things we’re talking about.

David Mead 30:00

Yeah, you know, as you’re talking about that, I an example just came to mind, a good friend of mine who’s a real estate agent. I’ve known him for 20 years, we used to sell cell phones together, at&t, you know, way back in the day, that was where I met him, right. And then we went our separate ways. And he went into real estate. And he, we actually ended up living in the same neighborhood for a couple years. And I remember, you know, back that time, in those early days, he was like, just so driven to build his business, his like, friends can wait, family can wait, they won’t be there when I get done. And I was like, ooh. And he built his business. And he sold it. And you know, hadn’t had a good exit from it. And a couple years ago, specifically, last year, in COVID, I noticed, I met up for him, I met up with him for lunch. And I sensed this real change in him. And we’ve since been working on a project together for the last couple months. And you know, we’ve had a chance to talk about this, but his mindset has completely shifted. So we’re for the first several years of his business, it was about, you know, everything else can wait. It’s all about my career. It’s all about my business. It’s all about the money, which he got, he got it, but he sacrificed everything else, lost his marriage. I’m sure a lot of his friends left. I’m lucky enough to still be a friend. But he has done a complete turnaround, where now he realizes, you know what success means so much more than money to me, yes, money is a component of it. Absolutely. But it’s the relationship that I have with my kids. It’s the ability that I have now to spend time with them. And the freedom that this this job can create, so that I can do things with the people that matter to me. So to answer your question, that’s one simple example of one guy who’s now building a business that he’s got, you know, in a completely different way. And we’re actually working on a project together to be able to share these ideas with young entrepreneurs, that are just starting out so that they can, again, have this shift in perspective, as they’re starting out as to what success really means. Yes, absolutely. Money can be a component of it, but it can be so much more than that. And that other part is so fulfilling.

Adam G. Force 32:03

Yeah, I like that. I mean, and it’s, sometimes people have to go through that pain in order to learn the lesson that you learn, right? So yeah, let me know we go through struggle, all our lives. And I, that’s something I was reading this day, I don’t know if you heard of David Goggins, the guy that wrote, the book can’t hurt me. He was a navy seal. Oh, my gosh, talk about mental toughness and disciplines, guys, I’m an animal. But he really kind of got me really kind of opening my perspective around how struggle is part of the human process for growth, right, we always say don’t get better, you got to get out your comfort zone, blah, blah, blah, very cliche stuff. But when you talk about struggle, like that’s when you start learning who you are, it’s like when you’re really in the mix, and you’re thinking to yourself, like, he goes through crazy stuff. And I was just talking to my wife, yesterday, and I was like, we did a five day backpacking trip in the Grand Canyon. And I was like, it was our first time backpacking, the difficulty was four out of five with high solitude. I was like, I don’t know what we’re thinking, we’re doing our doing our thing. We trained hard. Before we went, we wanted the experience, right? And I was like, do you remember we went out there? And I’m like, did you ever have moments out there when you had massive blisters cuts off your feet? And you know, we had several more days walking eight miles a day in hot sun with a 45 pound bag on your back? I’m like, did you ever sit there and lay in the tent at night going, what the hell am I doing out here. And this is, this is when you start thinking I could be home, I could be doing this. And that whole game becomes a choice for you to say, I’m going to keep going, or I’m going to check out right. And that’s where this callus in the mind and mental toughness. And we go through this stuff in different forms as entrepreneurs, tough decisions, losing money, losing partners, like all these things, and it’s really up to us to make these decisions and choices that keep going forward.

David Mead 33:59

So I love what you said, because I think it again, it reminds me that we’re gonna get to the other side of this, but the only way you can get to the other side is the thrashing part, right, you got to thrash to get to the other side. And, you know, I’ve never done a hardcore backpacking trip and Grand Canyon. However, I will tell you one, like really, really, really, really baby version of that, that I do every day, that maybe some of your listeners will, will, will get out of it. So it gets something out of it. So I sound silly, but every morning for the first few seconds of my shower, it’s cold, as cold as the water will get. And it’s again for this, this thing of like this will pass. I’ll get through this. It’s gonna get warm, right? It’s hard right now it sucks right now, but it’s gonna get warm. Yeah, and that’s a daily reminder of when something comes up that I have no control over when something comes up that is a slog, or that sucks or that, you know, a surprise that, you know, an unexpected thing that I got to deal with. I’m going to get to the other side. It’s warm on either side. So it’s that’s just a daily simple daily reminder that helps me to deal with those kind of things

Adam G. Force 35:02

I like it. It’s a little extra mini like, exercise size that anybody can really implement. And now it’s good to shock the nervous system with some of that cold water. Does it if Tony, then it must be good. Okay. He just has this custom cold pool that goes down. Yeah, I’m not there. Yeah, guy, we all use the shower. That’s a good example, though. And we all have to do different things to remind ourselves. But you’re right. Like in the last example, I’ll give on this topic. It’s like, I was like, it’s so true. And you can look at whenever I question something about myself or business, I look at life in general and see if it’s consistent in all like areas of life. And so for an example of this would be the butterfly. Like if a butterfly is a caterpillar cocoon, and you see the cocoon moving and it can’t get out. If you open that cocoon for it and take it out, it will die and never become a butterfly. It’s only because of the struggle that it builds up the strength and the and what it needs to become the butterfly. Interesting. How cool is that? I mean, you just see these things in life replicated in very various forms, you know?

David Mead 36:16

Totally, yeah.

Adam G. Force 36:17

Pretty awesome.Alright, so listen, if people want to learn more, they want to see like, I don’t know your book. When’s that supposed to come out?

David Mead 36:25

End of the year, October or January, we’re still…up in the air.

Adam G. Force 36:27

Alright, so towards the end of year, we got a little time. And we’ll make a note of it in the show notes so people know and stuff like that. And right now, temporary working title is behind the curtain for anybody. Where do they learn more about what you’re working on and connect and stuff like that? Is there some place they can go?

David Mead 36:45

Yeah, my website is Davidjmead.com. You can find me on the socials at dmpropls. And then yeah, I guess those are probably the best best way to find me.

Adam G. Force 37:02

Awesome. Well, David, really appreciate you taking the time to chat today. Share all your experiences working with Simon and outside of all that and everything else you’re doing. The book sounds great. I think it’s such an important conversation that you’re bringing to the table so it was fun to dig into that today.

David Mead 37:16

Thanks Adam. Nice talking to you too.

Adam G. Force 37:23

Thanks for tuning into the Change Creator podcast visit us at Change Creator comm forward slash go big to get access to free downloads and other great resources that will drive your business forward.

David Wood: Mastering Your Mind & Business For Real Progress

Listen to our exclusive interview with David Wood:

Subscribe to this show on Spotify | iTunes  | Stitcher  |  Soundcloud

What if you feel like you’re lost in the startup wild? It’s hard to make real progress when that’s the case. This is why we spoke with David Wood, a coach who has helped endless entrepreneurs make real progress by helping them stay laser focused on the critical path. In this interview David shares his 9 steps for mastery.

More about David:

He has built the world’s largest coaching business with 150,000 followers. Was ranked #1 on google for “life coaching” out of 23 million result.

He is the author of “Get Paid for Who You Are”, with foreword by Jack Canfield of Chicken Soup fame

He haas taught laser focus to leaders at Facebook, Square, Warner Bros, Salesforce, as well as Colorado prison inmates

David appeared on CNN Headline News, Forbes and has done over 120+ podcast interviews!

Learn more about David Wood and his work at > myfocusgift.com

We also recommend:

Transcription of Interview

(Transcribed by Otter.ai, there may be errors)

Adam G. Force 00:03

Welcome to the Change Creator podcast where entrepreneurs come to learn how to live their truth, get rich and make a massive difference in the world. I’m your host Adam forest co founder, Change Creator and co creator of the captivate method. Each week we talk to experts about leadership, digital marketing and sales strategies that you can implement in your business and life to go big, visit us at Change Creator comm forward slash go big to grab awesome resources that will help drive your business forward. Hey, what’s going on everybody? Welcome back to the Change Creator podcast show. This is your host, Adam force. Excited to be here today. Hope you’re having an amazing week. We have a great conversation coming up for you today. His name is David would know. So David has actually built one of the largest coaching businesses out there and has ranked number one on Google for life coaching out of 23 million different results. He has over 150,000 followers. He is the author of the book Get Paid for Who You Are. And he has a great follower with jack Canfield. He’s the author of chicken soup. And so he’s also appeared in CNN, Forbes, and all this other stuff and been on over 120 different podcasts, which is pretty cool. He’s got a lot of great insights to share when it comes to building your business, especially coaching businesses, but also kind of finding your way with the tools that you really need. And we’re gonna go through these nine steps that he’s outlined. So through all his experience, these are nine things that he teaches that are really important that he’s kind of narrowed it down to so we’re going to discuss that today. Now, if you missed the last episode was with Jennifer Spivak, she’s a Facebook ads expert. And we want to get into that because as some of the folks out there like yourselves who are building your businesses, if you’re making sales, and you have certain things working, well, you might want to help accelerate their growth with Facebook ads at some point. So that’s a great conversation to get into because we kind of tap into a lot of strategies and insights. Okay, so if you missed that one, you can go back and check it out. Don’t forget to follow us on Facebook, everybody. That’s our primary channel. Right now we have our Facebook group, which is on our page. So you can go right to the group which is Be Change Creator. We talk about how we’re converting more sales on your website and things like that. So that is a primary theme for us is how we really start turning more of that traffic into loyal customers that just love what we do. Right. All right, guys. I’m gonna jump into this conversation. we’ll kick it off and see what David has to say. Okay, show me the heat. Hey, David, welcome to the Change Creator podcast show how you doing today, buddy?

David Wood 02:46

I’m good man. I’m here in Mexico. I’m looking at a palm trees and, and the ocean. So right now, life’s pretty good. Awesome.

Adam G. Force 02:55

I’m in Miami and I got palm trees, but it’s pouring rain today. You know, Funny enough, I’ve been around to Central America and all kinds of other places. But I’ve never been to Mexico specifically.

David Wood 03:10

Right? And it’s not that far from you

Adam G. Force 03:13

No, what brought you to Mexico?

David Wood 03:16

I wanted a break from the winter I I’m Australian originally but I live in Boulder Colorado. And and you know, I don’t mind the winter at all, but I thought wouldn’t be great to just have a break for say three weeks where I get to feel sun and and see a beach again. And also I rescued a puppy in Boulder and she’s never seen a beach until yesterday. That was so exciting

Adam G. Force 03:45

My wife was telling me yesterday that the weather in Colorado was reaching what felt like with the wind minus 50.

David Wood 03:53

I’m happy to hear that.

Adam G. Force 03:54

Yeah. escaped. Yeah, awesome. So David, tell us a little bit. I like to just tee people up with the present moment, like what’s going on in your world these days? What are you working on? You know, and we’ll get into a little bit of background how you get there after?

David Wood 04:14

Well, you know, I I like to be as transparent as I can. That’s, that’s how I try and live in. It’s what I teach. So I’ll model it now. The biggest thing in my life right now is self care. Okay, you know, and I’ve got my business running. I love my clients. I’m working on some cool projects workwise but Mexico has really kicked my ass in in many different ways. And I’ve done so much work on myself, but I still have found that I’ve gotten really triggered. I’ve gotten angrier than I ever have before. I’ve gotten more stress than I can remember being, I had some trauma when I was a kid so I’m I’m very sensitive to noise. And so traveling in Mexico is an edge for me. Then on top of all of that, and living with friends for the first time in a long time, I got food poisoning, which is one of the most miserable experiences that I can think of. So there’s all of that going on. And I’m learning more and more about, okay, what is David need? What is this system need? And can I speak up? Because I grew up in a an Australian country town. And sensitive wasn’t a thing you kind of got to be. Yeah. And so even just speaking up and saying to the group, hey, I’m having a bit of trouble here. And I might need to step outside because I’m overstimulated with all the noise and laughter and everything in the music that’s happening. This is my journey. Right now. It’s been my journey for 20-30 years.

Adam G. Force 05:52


David Wood 05:53

I’m finding more layers. So that’s one thing that’s that’s really alive as can I speak up and get my needs met, instead of trying to power through and overshadow what my nervous system might need?

Adam G. Force 06:08

Yeah. And I’m gonna get into just how you help entrepreneurs today in just a second and some of your background for people. But you did make me think of something when you mentioned self care. And I’m always reading my, you know, business and, you know, influence or like inspirational stuff. But I’m also always reading about things for my own health, right. And a book that I recently picked up was about breathing. And it talks about how we’ve been breathing all wrong, and the evolution of humanity and how short breaths and mouth breathing and how this has changed the dynamic of our whole physiology. And you know, I’ve always asked questions like, why do we see more allergies today, and asthma and all this stuff. And it all starts to tie back to how we breathe. And I’ve never, I mean, I’ve been into like meditation and stuff. But this book, after many years of me reading all kinds of this stuff, you know, I never came across a book with this information. And I’m finally like, Oh, my God, really interesting material. So as you mentioned, the self care that kind of popped in my mind, because I’ve been reading that as of recent, and it’s been a real eye opener for me personally.

David Wood 07:23

Well, I appreciate the reminder, because since you started mentioning breathing, I’ve taken three good breaths into my belly into my diaphragm, instead of breathing up here. So it is something that I am forgetting. And a friend reminded me last night, he said, I can tell you are about to do a nice exhale, and then you stopped and your mind went somewhere else. I’m like, thank you. Yeah, we need those reminders to come back. Because I can self soothe we all can. And sometimes I forget.

Adam G. Force 07:54

Yeah, absolutely. It’s easy. Absolutely. I become a mouth breather and and then when you start doing that, your nasal and your nose, everything starts to say it’s like, use it or lose it factor. And it starts to contract and get smaller, and it changes the whole dynamic. Anyway, I won’t get into it. But I was like, going on and on to my wife. And I was like, you gotta read this thing. It’s crazy, man. Like, it’s crazy.

David Wood 08:18

I’m glad we’re talking about this as well. Because, you know, sometimes I think when people hear see people on TV or hear people on a podcast, yeah, there’s kind of a base assumption of this person’s an expert. So they’ve got everything all together. They don’t have problems. Yeah. And I just want to make it really clear. I’m not some guru. I’ve been around a long time. I’ve been coaching for 20 years, I’m really good at what I do. And I’m also a student. At the same time, I learn so much from my clients. I’ll be saying something in a coaching session, and I’ll be like, Oh, you’re gonna do that today? Yeah, you gotta you gotta practice what you preach. So yeah, I’m glad we got an opportunity to talk about that.

Adam G. Force 09:02

Absolutely. Absolutely. So tell us a little bit about the coaching experience and kind of how you got into that. And you know, how you got 20 years under your belt, and I know that you help entrepreneurs in a few really important ways. So I just want to like, in you know, a nutshell here, just give me the some of that background that you think is most important for people to understand.

David Wood 09:24

Yeah, sure. Well, I started life very left brained. I grew up in a country town. I was good at math. I ended up coming top of my school and I was like, Well, what are you going to do? Since your math is your main thing and we figured accountancy. But then we discovered there was this remote profession called actuarial science, okay, and becoming an actuary, which is like they calculate insurance premiums and do statistics projections for 100 years into the future. And I was like, well, they made a lot more money and it’s harder to do, and it’s More prestige. And there are scholarships for it. So I actually got paid to go to university to train to be an actuary. And then I still got to choose if I would work for the company or not. It was an unbonded scholarship, which was like magic. So I did that. And qualified took me eight years to qualify as an actuary. And then a year later, I quit. Which is, it’s like becoming a doctor and then saying, I’m done.

Adam G. Force 10:29

I’m good.

David Wood 10:31

And what did it was I did a personal growth course. And I didn’t want to do it, because they all want name tags, and they smile way too much. And I’m like, this can’t be real. These are bunch of weak self help junkies. But, um, but I wasn’t happy in my marriage at the time. So I thought, I’m gonna get in and get out. Okay, well, famous last words out, I’m telling you. I think what happened is they cracked me up and they cracked my cynicism. And I found myself coaching, I couldn’t help myself. If someone had a problem in the course. And we’re talking about it. I’m like, Well, have you tried this? Or did you hear what the teacher said yesterday, and I changed somebody’s life overnight. And I got hooked. I’m like, Oh, my God, I’m watching this woman face her biggest fear. She goes into it transforms her life. I’m like, how do I learn how to how to do more of that? Yeah. So they, they trained me as a as a coach, if you kept going with the program, they would train you. And so I coached people going through the course. And then I met a guy, I didn’t even meet him, I met someone who met him who had a business card of a coach, and this is back in 1997. And I’m like, wait a minute, you can get paid to do this. Like, this is a profession. And it wasn’t really at that stage, but people were starting. And I’m like, Alright, I want in. So I quit my job. And and I went and trained as a coach. And I’ve been basically training ever since because it never stops. And what I discovered in that course, was that I had learned about business, and I had learned about systems and how to be successful in a certain area of life. But I knew nothing about emotional intimacy, about vulnerability, about leadership, about influence about transparent communication. So the last 20 years have been about diving into that. So I’m a unique coach, I think in that most coaches will focus on one or the other, I’ll help you with your business, or I’ll help you with your life and your relationships and who you are and your courage. I, I straddle the two because of my my unique background. So if you come to me, don’t expect that we’re just going to work on money. I always make that clear. Don’t expect that. We’ll start with money. And then we’ll move to you having more time off. But then I’m interested in how you showing up in the world. Yeah. And are you living life such that when you’re on your deathbed, you can say I gave it everything I had?

Adam G. Force 13:14

Yeah, I love that. And, I mean, I think that if you, if you want to make the more, the more money and all that kind of stuff, and get to those next stages of your life, you do need to work on yourself, right to become that that person and the next version of yourself. So if you’re not playing that part of the game, it’s going to be very hard to continue to grow. Right?

David Wood 13:38

Yeah. And the the the sad thing about it, is you’ll never know what would have been possible. Because you live we live in our own world. It’s like The Truman Show. I you know, if anyone’s ever seen The Truman Show, with Jim Carrey, he’s in his limited world with these boundaries. He doesn’t even know about the boundaries. You can you we will live our whole life like that. Unless we push back the horizons, right? We grow and often that takes some outside influence, like, like a coach or a course or something, something transformative. And then we’re like, oh, wow, I could never go back to the way I was living. This is my new world now. Yeah. And so my life has been about constantly trying to push back those boundaries and discover what I don’t know. I don’t know. And I can’t tell you about what the next level is gonna look like because I’ve got no idea until until my coach shows me something and I’m like, Oh, wow. All right. This is the new level now.

Adam G. Force 14:41

Yeah, yeah, it’s true. And what would you say I guess working with you know, all these entrepreneurs over the over the years. I always like when you mentioned you know, they need someone and outside influence, right. But first you kind of how do we get them to the point of saying I’m open to that outside influence because they don’t if they’re not aware that they need to break through to these other, you know, areas of their life to become that next person. You’re right, they can go through their whole life not knowing. So if they don’t know, how do they get in a position where they can accept support?

David Wood 15:18

Yeah, I think we, I think we each need to choose the mindset of a seeker. We need to also be humble enough to say, because I’m very, I’m very arrogant. I’ll be upfront about that. I usually think I’m the smartest person in the room. Now, maybe sometimes I am. But the problem with that viewpoint, is that leaves me not open to input. So I try and begin as a beginner, I try and take on that mindset, okay, I need to seek, I need to get outside influence. I think it was only like five months ago, I had five different coaches. I had a coach for dating, I had a coach for accountability. I had a coach to teach me about energy and moving energy through the body because I knew nothing about that. So it’s choosing, I don’t know everything. And I’m and I want input. There used to be a time I think, particularly in American culture, where it’s like, I need to do it myself. If I do it myself, I’m a hero. Yeah, if you do it with the help of 100 people, oh, you’re not a hero, you have to help 100 people. I think that’s changing with people like Bill Gates saying, everybody needs a coach. Right, with leaders like that saying, like, he wants to learn bridge to get a coach. Yeah, I want to be good at Starcraft. I went and got a coach, I started playing fortnight and I sucked at it. I’m like, Well, you know, I get a coach and get good. So I think the mindset is, is the main thing. And I, everybody’s different. So when I’m helping someone to double revenue and their time off, what I do is I’m like, Look, let’s look at the nine areas that I’ve identified that are important, okay, and find out where you’re strong, and where you’re weak. Yeah, and I run them through it. And some of them, they’ll be like, Alright, I’m green. I’m solid. That’s, that’s fine. This one I’m orange is like a traffic light system. This one, I’m like, I could use a little bit of work. And these areas, I’m weakened. That’s where I’m going to start. First, I’m going to get really strong in those, get all those lights up to green, your chances of doubling revenue in the next 12 months, I think a very high.

Adam G. Force 17:38

Okay. And can you give us an a couple examples of some we don’t need, I don’t know, if you want to go through all nine, but maybe a couple of really important triggers

David Wood 17:46

I can give you all nine of them in a minute. So we start with your direction? Do you have goals? In 12 months, three months? and seven days? And tomorrow? Yeah, I would have you do the happy dance. That’s number one. So listeners, you can get a piece of paper and just score yourself with a color, you’ll probably want to pause the recording. The second one is your productivity. Can you sit down for a two hour sprint, and I actually do the tasks that you set for yourself? That’s a game changer. Number three, mindset. And we’ve already talked a little bit about that. But when when a problem comes, Do you suffer? And do you get stressed? And do you view it as a problem? Or do you say, Bring it on, there’s something for me to learn here. The fourth one is now we started to really get to the revenue you want to a flood of leads. If you’ve got a trickle of leads, score yourself red, if you’ve got a flood of leads score yourself green. Next one is your conversion. When people come to your website, do they buy? Do you have a high conversion rate? Or is it a low conversion rate? Right? You don’t want to fly to traffic and nothing happens. And then number six is Are you loving up your existing customers? It’s so easy to keep looking for new customers new clients. But are you getting referrals? Are you are you gathering testimonials? Do you have a great upsell system? Do you have a nurturing sequence? So, that’s six. Should we? I can stop there. I can do the last three, whatever it

Adam G. Force 19:32

Let’s keep it rolling. Keep it rolling.

David Wood 19:33

All right. Number seven is you want to clarify your genius and get really clear. What do you love? And you’re great at and what are you going to outsource? critical because you’re the bottleneck in your own business. Yeah. Number eight, is actually harnessing talent. This is where you’ve identified I’m going to get stuff off but now you got to go and get the people and you want to get good at that. getting really good people. And then the last one, now that you’ve got a team, are they highly motivated and highly accountable? I’ve been coaching a lot for the last year, I’ve been coaching vice presidents and directors, and managers at some really big companies. I like to focus on entrepreneurs, but I’m like, I want to, I want to see what’s going on in the companies. And I found time and time again, there’s just a lack of motivation, a lack of leadership and a lack of accountability with the team. And these are easy fixes. They really are. So those are the nine areas, I recommend listeners, pause, go back, listen to this again, and give yourself a color, red, orange, or green in each of those areas. Because the plan for you to double revenue is going to be different to the next guy, or the next woman.

Adam G. Force 20:55

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And I’m curious on one of those you mentioned, and I think this is just something a lot of entrepreneurs, especially in the earlier stages can can get confused by so for example, I think it was number seven, which was know your strengths, delegate the weaknesses.

David Wood 21:15

That’s right, clarify your genius.

Adam G. Force 21:18

Yep. So if we’re doing that, one of the things I have found is that, sometimes what happens is people will say, Well, I’m a master of my craft, right? I know this expertise very well, in this category. I don’t know how to build sales funnels, and you know, lead generation funnels, or whatever it is, I’m making things out website development, and they start or even write my copy, right, you know, like, so we start outsourcing those things. And they can spend a lot of money and they’re not sure what is actually good, cohesive strategy behind those things. So at some base level, I always feel like as the owner, maybe these are your weaknesses, but you should be aware of how these things work at some level, so that you understand, you know, how to what you’re looking for to make it work for your business when you’re hiring out.

David Wood 22:14

Yeah, that makes sense. Like, let’s suppose you’re going to hire a social media person. I think it makes sense, like a valid strategy would be, I’m going to do a one hour primer on YouTube, right? You can do that for free. And just work out what the terminology is, and what’s good and whatever you could even, you could either get a coach, or you could do a little course on how to hire someone. You’re like, what to look for. Yes, yeah, media. I think that makes sense. I also think it’s totally valid to just find a person or a company. And I have a process in week in week eight, when you got to go and harness the talent and the process that I take people through so that they can test people and actually filter out all the riffraff but I think it’s fine to get an expert that you trust and have them guide you as well. I think both are valid.

Adam G. Force 23:09

Yeah, no, it makes sense. So if you have some checks and balances for the hiring process, right, like you’re kind of talking about getting rid of the riffraff stuff like that, because there’s a lot of there’s a lot of bad options.

David Wood 23:23

Oh, my God, look, I just hired a company. Yeah. Well, okay, you, you convincing me now you’re converting me. I hired a company to do social media for Facebook ads.

Adam G. Force 23:35


David Wood 23:36

Now I have done a couple of courses in Facebook ads, advertising is so critical. Yeah. And also my business is to be really good at marketing, so I can help my clients. So I’m like, this is gonna be a good investment. So I know, I know a bit about it. And then when this company showed me the results, after two weeks, they said, Yeah, the results aren’t optimal. But we’re gathering data. I said, Wait a minute. not optimal. We’ve spent $400 you’ve gotten four click throughs. Or click throughs. And zero signups for a free offer. This is terrible. Yeah. And and I, so I knew enough to say, there’s something wrong here in our relationship, and I don’t trust you, because you should be telling me this is terrible. That’s what you should be telling me not Oh, it’s not optimal. But we’ll, we’ll see what we can improve. This is what you should be telling me. So yeah, it helps. Same with right now I’m working with a programmer, because I’ve got this amazing idea out of them. We don’t have to go into it. But for podcasting, and for working out relationships in podcasting, and getting booked on podcast, I got this amazing program that’s going to conquer the world. I got this guy writing it. I know enough about programming that I can look at his code and say, This is terrible. What you’re doing is in it. So I got rid of that guy and I got a new guy who’s better. But again, I’m spotting. You know what? I’m paying too little, you get what you pay for I get what I need, I need to bump it up from 15 bucks an hour to probably 50 bucks an hour, even in India to get someone good. So it does help to know a little bit. But beware of the dark side of going too far into something. You just coached a client yesterday who’s got a product that’s gone viral? It’s a it’s an immunity product for COVID. Right, I get it kind of give him a shout out. Give him a plug.

Adam G. Force 25:46

Yeah, I don’t care.

David Wood 25:47

Yeah, good doseandremedy.com. Right. It’s an immunity product for COVID. And it’s gone viral, he’s having trouble supplying orders. And he was like, I think maybe we’re gonna do do our own shipping. Right? We got to set up a shipping operation. And I was like, really? You’ve got to work out what your core business is. Is your core business shipping? He said, No, it’s formulating really healthy products that the market needs. Unlike. Okay, so he said, but it’s expensive. I said, Well, maybe you maybe you it’s expensive for a while. And you do that I want to see you 10 x this business. And then I want to see you 10 exit again, and you shouldn’t be in the business of shipping. Now once you roll up and scale. Maybe you’ll hire someone who knows how to set up an in house shipping operation. Yeah. And you’ll do that and you’ll bump your profits. 20%. Right. But he needed that perspective, because he was going to go into the dark side of the Force, and try and do something that was not his genius.

Adam G. Force 26:57

Yeah, I mean, and that’s just, you gave him a nice way to think about it, it just becomes when the time is right factor to do it the right way. And you don’t have to do everything yourself. And I think that to your point, there is always going to be like, Yeah, you got to delegate things. Like I’m not a coder. And I’m not, you know certain things, but I like to know what’s going on in the business. And like to your point, you should be able to look at someone and be like, I know that I don’t know all the nitty gritty, but I know what you’re doing doesn’t make sense. And I I’ve run into that problem too, with people when I hired out to like, design big sales pages and do things because I’m a designer and a developer and I do those things. But I don’t do them all the time for our business because I don’t have the time, right. So I’ll pay someone else. And when they come back, and if they’re not doing it, right, I’m just like, I know when someone’s like making a mess. I mean, you know, so it’s just good to be aware. And it can save you because people will come in make a mess. And if you don’t know about it, you could sit on that mess for who knows how long?

David Wood 28:05

Yeah, that’s true. Which brings me to another hot tip for anyone who’s got a team they’re managing, or even you got one person you’re managing. I heard a military guy give a speech once he was a un weapons Inspector, okay. And he said to me, anything worth doing is worth inspecting.

Adam G. Force 28:25


David Wood 28:26

And that was a revelation to me, because what I wanted to do is just hand it off to someone and trust that it’s been done. But it’s kind of demotivating theory for your staff. If you never look at their work, if you don’t check in on them. Either, that, you know, they’ll start to slide and whatever. And inspecting their work gives you a chance to celebrate them. So I have I have someone now who helps me get booked on podcast, he mitko might have reached out to you and set this up. And my commitment is every Friday, by one o’clock, I have to review his report, his weekly report of the bookings that he secured and what he did, and he’s hourly sheet, I have to do that. If I don’t do that by one o’clock Friday, I have to pay $5 to someone I don’t like that. That’s my commitment to inspect his work. Otherwise, you know how demotivating that no one ever looks at what he does.

Adam G. Force 29:32

Yeah. Appreciation comes from there too, right?

David Wood 29:35

Yep. And then I get to appreciate him. Well done. Good job. And as you said, if he is messing something up if there’s a mistake that’s happening, but we’re going to catch that we’re going to get to talk about it. So I highly encourage if you got a team or you’re going to have a team have this be a regular practice where anything that’s worth doing is worth inspecting

Adam G. Force 29:59

100% I love that. And I think too many people don’t take the time to do exactly that to look at metrics, what people are doing…. at Change Creator, we do daily, weekly, monthly. So certain things are daily practices, certain things are weekly practices, certain things are monthly, of course, there’s quarterly annual, all that stuff. But those are the three big ones, right. And so always looking at metrics once a week looking at, you know, financials like certain period like rotations and work that we’re doing. And if you’re not seeing because if you’re not looking at these things to your point, you don’t catch the mistake, right, you don’t catch the problem. And then it festers and time will only magnify the problem versus making it better. So now you can get the right trajectory, right. But if you’re not looking at these things, because we just take it for granted, we’re too busy. Maybe you’re a smaller business. So you think Yeah, I don’t need to get that, that like, you know, process oriented yet. And that’s always becomes a big, big mistake.

David Wood 31:05

Totally, totally agree. So we’ve just talked about a way that you can be super effective and super productive with your team, let’s bring it back to ourselves, shares the first rule, the first routine, the first metric, if you like, is going to have to be for yourself. And so what I recommend, and this, this is week two, right, we went through the nine, the nine areas, week two is your productivity. Do you know every week what your goals are for the next seven days? Right? Yeah, I asked every listener right now, do you know? Do you have it up on your wall as post it notes? Or in Trello? Or whatever system you use? I don’t care what system you use. But do you know? And let’s suppose you pause the recording? Yeah, right now and you write down your goals for the next seven days. Let’s suppose you do that. Sure. that serves you for the next week. But you’ll be lost the week after that. So I’ve decided the first rule, that number one thing for an entrepreneur is to put into your calendar, a regular CEO date with yourself? Sure, yeah, 20 minutes, can be four o’clock on a Friday, four o’clock on a Sunday 9am on a Monday you choose, put it in your calendar. And then here’s the second rule, you show up for that date. Now, that’s hard to do. Because you’re busy stuffs going on kids, kids knocking at the door, whatever, that’s hard to do. So what I do is, again, if I do not have that date with myself, which might even be five minutes to set my goals for the next seven days, if I do not do that, I have to pay $5 to someone I dislike. You follow those two rules, you’re gonna have direction for the rest of the year. If you do not do that, hey, look, nothing bad’s gonna happen. You just may not make as much money as you want. You may not have the time off that you want. You’ll be you’ll be on the ocean without a rudder. Yeah, that can be a good time. So I’m not saying you have to do it. I’m just saying if you want direction, and you’ve got goals that you want to achieve, these two rules can actually change your life.

Adam G. Force 33:39

I agree. And it’s those simple habits that it’s helping you create a habit right, first, create the habit second show up. It’s like, so you know, you’re building this into your lifestyle. And I think two things that came up to me when you got talking about the self and the goals is, I just did a video talk that I recorded yesterday about this, oddly enough, is two things that you have to do as an entrepreneur one, be honest with yourself, right? And to hold yourself accountable. And you talked about post it notes. And Funny enough, I used to do this years ago, I had posted this over the house, right? And as I’ve just recently, I’ve been I was reading this book can’t hurt me about this navy seal and his just insane life that he went through and how he had to go through Navy SEAL training multiple times. He went through hell week with a fractured kneecap, like just this guy’s nuts. And he started from absolutely the worst childhood nothing and he like turned everything around. And he gets into this idea of an accountability mirror. And I was like, Oh, that’s interesting. I used to do that for my mindset stuff years ago. And so I got posted notes on my mirror. So every day, I wake up and I look at those things. Those are the most immediate most important things I need to do right now. I tell myself, you got to get this done, dude. And I motivate and I get it going. And I’ve been crushing it because that stuff keeps it top of mind. So whatever, whatever it takes for you to make it work, we all are different. But looking yourself in the mirror and being honest with yourself and holding yourself accountable, it just works magic.

David Wood 35:18

I love that man. I’m very inspired hearing that. And, and we can take it one one layer further, because I love the seven day goals. It’s important. But we’ve got to because I lay a goal. So we started 12 months, yeah, to say eight weeks or 12 weeks. And then every seven days we’ll go to even if even if it looks sometimes I say like the last week I went no goals. I’m on vacation in Mexico. Right? Okay, fine. But I consciously wrote it down as holy. Yeah. The next layer is tomorrow. Yeah, that’s the next layer. So I think a wonderful practice. And you guys have told please steal this, if you like it, is ask yourself at the end of every workday. And you might want to set an alarm. If I don’t set an alarm, nothing happens. set an alarm, say five o’clock every day. The trick is you start to ignore the alarm. But you know, you need some discipline, and the alarm goes off. And as a says, if you were only allowed two things tomorrow, you are only allowed to do two things on your business. What would they be? Yeah, that really focuses the mind and the business and then put those post it notes up on your accountability mirror. I’ve got a board at home. Yeah. Put those up at the top. And then what I recommend you try it just try it for a week. is you do those two things first, before you do anything else, and I mean, checking email. Yeah, checking text messages, checking, like, you know, keep your phone on airplane mode. Yeah. Until you’ve done those two things, then you then allow your agenda to be hijacked by the rest of the world.

Adam G. Force 37:11


David Wood 37:11

Right? But that I just say try it out for seven days. There’s a feeling of peace, and a feeling I call it integrity that you have, when you are actually working first on the things that you have said are most important. It feels Yeah. When you don’t do that, what happens is stress, and you need alcohol and sugar and TV to return the Medicaid. And and again, hey, I’m okay with that. If that’s your choice, just know that that’s what’s going on. Yeah, try this out for seven days and see what true integrity feels like and what true productivity feels like. Because even more than you being successful in your business, I want you to feel good in your own body. That’s actually what drives me.

Adam G. Force 38:02

Yeah, that makes a huge difference and just feeling a little less decision overwhelm a little bit more clarity on the critical path of what you’re doing. And, you know, we get questions like that from our students and captivate our members. And they’re, like, got trying to figure these things out. And I’m like, Listen, the reality is nine times out of 10, there’s only you can only do two or three things in a day, right as your to do list, if you’re going to do it well. And you know, things always take longer than you expect. So don’t plan more than one, two or three things in the day. And I’d say don’t sit down at your computer, until you’re clear about what those things are for the day Don’t sit down without knowing makes a huge difference, makes a huge difference.

David Wood 38:45

That’s nice. That’s that’s discipline. Well, you know, and

Adam G. Force 38:49

it’s funny because you keep you use this word discipline multiple times now, and I want people entrepreneurs listening to realize that yes, there’s all these tactical things, things that we talked about here and you know, really understanding the self but two things that will make the biggest difference in your life. What’s your this is what you’re helping people with discipline and habits. Those two things.

David Wood 39:11

You know what? I’m going to say something, I don’t know exactly what it’s going to be but it it I want to say it and then see if it feels true. Okay, I I can’t help people with discipline. I can’t help you with discipline, what I can do is show you the path. Yes. And I can help you see your lack of discipline. But you are the only one that can bring that last piece to the table. You are the only one who can actually when the alarm goes off four o’clock on a Friday and says you have to do your weekly plan. You are the only one that can show up. I cannot help you. When you fall off the horse. I might be able to help you get back on but there is no one but you Who can bring that last piece to your own success?

Adam G. Force 40:04

100% Yeah, that discipline part is just, you know, for people listening, it’s really the emotional mind overcoming the logical mind. So if you can kind of reel it back in, so when it is four o’clock, you don’t feel like doing something, you got to say, Well, I know, this is what I decided is important for the success of my future in the long run. So I’m going to take the emotional side out of this. And I’m going to think logically and stick to the plan, right? So that kind of thinking has helped me in tough times. Because, hey, when I start, before I started Change Creator, I didn’t know what the heck I was doing. I had to wake up at 330 and four o’clock in the morning to do work before I got on a train from Philly to New York to actually go to the office, right. I mean, that is, that was one of the most difficult like two years of my life. Because waking up early, and I think we can all relate, you’re waking up five, or whatever it is early for you. And you’re just like, ah, another half hour, and you just blow it off. Because emotionally, you, you you just feel like it’s too much. And you don’t want to do it. And so you rationalize. Right. So that’s where that discipline comes in. And we all have to learn how to harness the power of discipline.

David Wood 41:16

I’m with you, 100%.

Adam G. Force 41:19

Alright, David, I think we’re pretty much at the end here. And I want I want to be respectful of your time. So I love all the stuff, you’re helping entrepreneurs with doubling the revenue, getting more time off, you know, just kind of building a life that they dream of, and making it possible. So if people are interested in this type of work with you, how do they connect with you? How do they learn more? What what’s the next step for them? Yeah, thank you. Well, I took I you know, as I mentioned, I have an eight week program. So send me a program that’s designed to help you double your business in your time off over 12 months. Yes, grow, grow yourself as a human. And I took some of the best pieces of that. And I put it into a free training so that people can get a sense of what’s what’s what’s available. So I’m happy to give your listeners that there’s a little gift basket of goodies that includes that free training, there’s a cheat sheet with a checklist of what you need to handle. And if you want you can see if you might be a fit for the program. I’m quite I want to be upfront that I’m quite selective about who I choose, because I only want to work with people that I know I can create winsport It’s no fun for anybody to join a program they’re not a fit for. So you can you can get the free training the checklist and see if you’re fit for the seminar program at myfocusgift.com I tried to create the most memorable web we come up with to give you a gift about focus on my focus gift.com will take you there and you can access me and get in touch with me there too, if you like. You have it all right, myfocusgift.com everybody can check that out if you’re interested in what David is supporting entrepreneurs with. David, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it. It was a fun chat.

David Wood 43:10

Hey, you’re welcome. I’ve enjoyed meeting you and I had a blast here and I’ve said some things on this. I’ve done 150 interviews. I said some things here I haven’t said on any other interview. So I blame you for that. And thank you.

Adam G. Force 43:23

That’s my job. Alright David, I’ll catch you next time. Thanks for tuning in to the Change Creator podcast visit us at Change creator.com/gobig to get access to free downloads and other great resources that will drive your business forward.

Jennifer Spivak: Creating Facebook Ads That Actually Resonate

Listen to our exclusive interview with Jennifer Spivak:

Subscribe to this show on Spotify  |  iTunes  |  Stitcher  |  Soundcloud

When should I try Facebook ads? What makes them resonate with the right people so they work? Like most entrepreneurs, you might want to jump into Facebook ads but feel a little lost. We reached out to expert, Jennifer Spivak to get some answers that will help you on your journey.

Jennifer and her team have managed over $3m in ad spend and generated over $10m in return now.

Learn more about Jennifer and her work at > jenniferspivak.com

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Transcription of Interview

(Transcribed by Otter.ai, there may be errors)

Jennifer Spivak 00:03

Welcome to the Change Creator podcast where entrepreneurs come to learn how to live their truth, get rich and make a massive difference in the world. I’m your host Adam Force co founder, Change Creator and co creator of the captivate method. Each week we talk to experts about leadership, digital marketing and sales strategies that you can implement in your business and life to go big, visit us at Change Creator com forward slash go big to grab awesome resources that will help drive your business forward. Hey, what’s up, everybody? Welcome back to the Change Creator podcast show. This is your host, Adam force, hope everybody is doing well and have an amazing week. so far. We’re gonna be talking with somebody who is a Facebook ads expert. You know, we get a lot of people on our captivate program. And then as they start really harnessing and understanding what storytime really is about for their business, and they are starting to ramp up, they they get hungry to run some ads as a next part of their process. So you know, talking with people like Jennifer is important just to start really understanding some of these next steps and getting her insights on the Facebook, you know, process, something that our team has been pretty deep into, we’ve hired agencies like Hersh, marketing and stuff like that to run Facebook ads. And you learn a lot. I mean, there’s so much to making it successful, which is why we want to dive into this conversation because you really want to use in my mind Facebook ads to scale what’s working, not figure out what’s working, you can really burn through a lot of cash. So you really want to be ready to convert people and know that your your sales process is working. So we’re gonna get into that. Now, Jennifer’s team, just to give you a little sense, they’ve managed well over $3 million in ad spend so far, but they’ve earned and generated 10 million in revenue in return. So they definitely know how to get a good ROI. So I’m excited. Well, this is actually an older conversation that we already had, just to be transparent with you guys. We’ve been like digging through some of our files and reorganizing and every so often, we find an interview that has slipped through the cracks and didn’t get live. So this is a good conversation. It’s relevant. You know, there I think that all things as general marketing concepts will be good. There could be technical things around Facebook that might evolve but not much has really changed besides the the iOS update and kind of that big battle going on between Facebook and apple. Okay, so anyway, without further ado, we’ll jump into this conversation. If you missed the last interview it was with Who was that? Oh, yeah, Jennifer kalo Ruskin, we talked about what it takes to win in the retail space. Really important stuff. She’s a super smart girl, somebody that we met in our mastermind back in 2020. January out in California. So yeah, she’s really crushing it in retail. So that’s a good one for you guys, if you’re in the retail space. Alright guys, follow us on Facebook. Check us out there. That’s our main area always stopped by change, credit, calm, lots of good content and fresh things going up there. And without further ado, we’re gonna dive into this conversation with Jennifer and talk about Facebook ads. Okay, show me the heat.

Adam G. Force 03:33

Hey, Jennifer, welcome to the Change Creator podcast show. How’s everything going?

Jennifer Spivak 03:37

It’s going great. Thanks

Adam G. Force 03:38

so much for having me. Excellent. I appreciate you being here. You have quite a story. And you know, for anybody listening, we’ve been kind of hammering away at some some marketing stuff. And this will be our second guests here. It’s a really dive into some of the Facebook ads. But she has a really great story. So Jennifer via just tell us a little bit about like what’s going on in your world now. Like, what’s the latest? What’s the greatest and then we’ll kind of get the background of how you got there.

Jennifer Spivak 04:04

Yeah, latest and greatest. So actually, as of yesterday, we are celebrating our first six figure month, which is super cool and super exciting. Considering I started this business by myself five years ago in my 20s with having literally no idea what I was doing. So I still have these moments of like, oh, how did I get here? I blinked and here we are. But yeah, you know, as as you know, I own a all female Facebook and Instagram advertising agency. Yeah. And we’ve been working primarily with with female clients for the last five, five and a half years. And it’s just really awesome. We get to help women businesses make money while we grow and life’s pretty good over here.

Adam G. Force 04:53

Awesome. No, I love the sound of that. And I’m just curious kind of how you got in to Facebook as a specialty skill to begin with

Jennifer Spivak 05:04

Yeah. So I went to school for marketing and public relations, this area was sort of always in the cards for me. And my story starts with, so I met this guy on Craigslist. And people are always like, oh, that doesn’t sound good. But it’s a really good ending, which is that when I was in college, I connected with this guy on Craigslist, we ended up deciding to build an agency together. And we spent, you know, a couple of years from 2010 to 2014. Figuring out what the hell we specialized in how we were going to grow this company. And, you know, this was sort of like the come up days of Facebook ads, and really even digital marketing in general. So we were just trying on random things like one week, we specialized in SEO, the next week, we specialized in AdWords, it was like, let’s just see and try to figure it out. And at some point, we were like, Oh, I don’t know, let’s try Facebook ads, and the business like practically exploded overnight. So I realized we were onto something. And you know, it’s funny, people are like, well, how did you get training, I’m like, of there wasn’t any like it didn’t exist. We were all just figuring this out as we went into. And so I kind of learned, as people in general, were learning how to use Facebook ads to generate sales and revenue. And when I left that agency at the end of 2014, and to me, it was immediately obvious that this was something I knew a lot about, it was something that was really easy to sell, because it is so quantifiable, and it was also the best way to get results for the types of clients I wanted to work with.

Adam G. Force 06:37

Very interesting, nice little evolution of things there. And yeah, it was kind of leaning into. I mean, it is such a powerful marketing platform. And I think it’s almost like no matter what business category you’re in, you’ll probably have an audience on there of some size.

Jennifer Spivak 06:55

Absolutely. And it’s so funny, because I think one of the most common things I hear is that like, if it’s really truly like b2b, it can’t like Facebook won’t work. And in fact, there’s almost like a joke in the industry that a lot of ad agencies don’t use Facebook ads for their own agency lead gen, which sounds really weird, and counterintuitive. And I’ve actually been crushing it with a funnel, I like accidentally came up with her own agency lead gen. So yeah, I really think that the applications are just incredibly vast, and it’s so freakin powerful.

Adam G. Force 07:30

Yeah, 100%, you know, and it’s kind of like a little bit of a puzzle, you just got to find the right, you know, setup and everything comes together. So it sounds like you got a nice funnel. And, you know, you’re not the first person who’s running an agency. And using Facebook to get clients like I spoke to Travis chambers of chamber media, they do all video ads. And he was like, yeah, we can spend he’s spending like $6,000 for every $6,000 on a Facebook ad. He’s getting like a, you know, $50,000 client for, yeah, for like, but it just shows like a maybe a bigger investment, but the quality he is pulling clients in through that channel.

Jennifer Spivak 08:10

Absolutely. And I mean, just my stats over the last two months, if seriously uncovered this meticulously simple funnel kind of by accident. We’ve spent only about four grand on just this specific agency lead gen funnel in the last two months, and it’s brought in $46,000 in revenue.

Adam G. Force 08:26

That’s awesome.

Jennifer Spivak 08:27

You know, like, Yeah, right. And that’s just on the first three months, by the way, if any of these clients were new, and they’re good clients, I mean, we’re like, well into potentially six figures, just from four grand in ad spend. And I have four sales calls booked tomorrow from that funnel.

Adam G. Force 08:44

Oh, my God

Jennifer Spivak 08:45

We may need to do an update.

Adam G. Force 08:47

That’s awesome. Congrats. I’m glad that you got something that’s hot. Hang on to it as long as you can.

Jennifer Spivak 08:53

I intend to.

Adam G. Force 08:55

Well, tell me a little bit about like, you know, what we’re seeing with, you know, traditional, maybe product based or service based funnels versus and you don’t have to spill your secrets, but maybe a little taste of what your what’s working for you. Yeah.

Jennifer Spivak 09:10

So I Well, what’s what I talk about my funnel and the general sort of like our big picture, so Well, actually, what’s working in my funnel actually relates to the big picture, which is, I kind of believe that this concept of like, what’s the secret? And like, what are your secrets like? Well, there aren’t any, it’s really just about a lot of structured testing, like not to burst anybody’s bubble. But that’s, that’s really at the foundation of everything that we do. And in fact, I’ve found it to be a huge disservice to try too hard to fit into a best practice or the type of funnel that the quote on quote experts say we’re supposed to be using. Yeah, yeah. And now let’s talk about I mean, this translates directly to what I’m doing with my own funnel. It’s like stupidly simple. You know everything about how we’re supposed to use Facebook ads says you kind of warm people up first and nurture them and give free value and do a webinar or a lead magnet or a free audit or all of these things, and then you can get them to a sale. Okay? All right. That’s like what you know, the best practices say and by the way, we have clients where we use that with them that works for them. Sure. But what I was noticing personally, for my own funnel is that I would, you know, we had this like amazing opt in that my team and I put together, it’s almost like a mini course, incredibly valuable. We were getting like $2 opt ins, which is fantastic. But they were primarily freebie seekers or diyers. And so yeah, this goes back to one of the things I’m talking about all the time, which is, especially if you’re high ticket focusing solely or focusing too much on the cost per lead or cost per opt in. It’s just really short sighted and having you missed the big picture. Because, again, if we’re talking about on paper to dollar opt ins, that’s awesome. But the conversion rate to getting people to book a call with me, and then actually closing was really, really low. So I said, All right, technically I want to I’m going to try something that technically shouldn’t work. But let’s see. So put together this like really beautiful landing page. It’s an it’s an apply page, it’s you know, where I send all my traffic to if they want to apply for a call with me. But really like this full, robust, beautiful landing page with you know, this professional video, I had done an information on myself and my team and case study videos, all this great stuff. And I said, Oh, I wonder what would happen if I just sent cold traffic there. I’m willing to spend 10 to $15 a day on like a short little test just to see what happens. Put together a couple of quick ads literally pulled like the most basic look alike audience of people who had been to my website in the last 180 days and just did a 2% look alike. Turned it on. And to be really honest with you forgot about it, because I am the worst at managing my own ads. Yeah. Like just terrible. So I just let it run. And I went back like two weeks, three weeks later.

Adam G. Force 12:08

Two or three weeks. Wow. Okay.

Jennifer Spivak 12:10

Yeah, literally, I’m like, I can’t express enough how bad I am at managing my own ads, because of running a business and you know, handling all my clients stuff. Yeah. And, you know, I knew it was a really broad audience. So when you’re testing really broadly, you do actually want to give Facebook a lot of time to do its thing, let the algorithm work. And in fact, leaving it alone could actually be part of what had it work, because the algorithm did get to do its thing and cast a really wide net and inside of that, find the right people. And what has been able to happen is, I’ve been getting qualified as they filled out my full application qualified book calls for about $60 each, I will say, I have about a 50% no show rate from this particular funnel, which is sure significantly higher than anything else I normally have, I’d normally have a next to nothing. But paying $120 per call is also fine. When I’m selling, you know, a five, a five figure plus service like I don’t care, that’s fine. So it leaves room for not every single person is the exact right person. But at the end of the day, it’s resulted in, you know, getting a lot of the right people in closing three clients $46 in revenue that’s already in, you know, in my bank account, not including their leads that may close the leads I have tomorrow. And the one thing I will say that I think makes this work. And this is the piece people like don’t like to talk about when I talk about Facebook ads, because it’s like not sexy. But all of the back end stuff is a huge part of what makes this work. So I actually have a really robust retargeting sequence that runs after somebody books a call with me, and a really robust email sequence that runs after somebody books a call. So even though they didn’t get warmed up before they applied for a call with me, they’re getting incredibly warmed up and nurtured in the couple of days between when they book Yeah, and when they get on the phone with me. And this always I’ve done this in my business always, by the way, has people get on a sales call with me and say things like, I feel like I already know you. Yeah, yeah. I mean, come on. That’s like not a sales call anymore. That’s like we’re chit chatting.

Adam G. Force 14:26

Yeah, we’re just getting…. Yeah, I love that. Oh, yeah.

Jennifer Spivak 14:30

And that’s how I like to do business, by the way, like a hard sell. It’s just awkward. I like to just connect with people and like, we see if it’s a fit. And I really am very authentic and vulnerable. And it’s, you know, my brand is very much me and my personal brand. And so all of that stuff comes through and all of these touch points after they book. And I think that’s part of what makes this stupidly simple funnel work.

Adam G. Force 14:53

That’s great. Yeah, and you know, there’s I’ve learned this the hard way over the years too, is like there are no That rules like, you know, everyone gets so hung up on what is been preached by a couple, you know, thought leaders and you know this stuff. Yeah, like you said, it works for some people, it doesn’t work for others, but it’s a great idea to try. But you can try other things.

Jennifer Spivak 15:16

Yes. And it’s this idea of really approaching Facebook ads. And I guess Honestly, this would apply to I was gonna say marketing, but also business and life is not just like what the best practices but what’s actually going to serve me best. Yeah, exactly. And being willing to try and test and iterate and put in a little bit of upfront work and you know, get through it, when it’s getting tough and challenging. And you’re worried to find that sweet spot of what actually works for you.

Adam G. Force 15:43

Yeah, no, I love that. I love that. I’ve seen so many variations of different funnel steps and things like that. And, you know, it’s just, it’s incredible what you you don’t even expect like putting the entire webinar on the Facebook ad directory, like, you know, it works for some people. And you’ve never really been told to do that.

Jennifer Spivak 16:02

Yeah, I’ve been talking about that we’ve been doing that with so many clients, because the cost of getting a webinar registration is just like getting, you know, more and more expensive these days, depending on the industry. And with a video view ad, I might be able to get somebody watching a completed 90 minute webinar for like $4 compared to a $13 registration. And that’s not even factoring in if they watched it.

Adam G. Force 16:24

Yeah. And I mean, that would be interesting. I mean, have you seen it that low? like four or five hours for a full watch?

Jennifer Spivak 16:31

Yes. Wow. Absolutely. Absolutely. And again, it always depends on the industry, how good the video is, and all that stuff. There’s so many factors. But we do have a particular clients, we were we were really struggling honestly, to get the webinar redge costs below $16. And, you know, I’m willing to like deal with like, 10 to 12, if it’s the right audience, but 16 just felt like a little much for me, and it made, you know, it made getting volume really challenging. Yeah, and this is this is particularly if I’m not mistaken, it’s about a 35 Minute Webinar. So it’s not like a full length, you know, 60 to 90 minutes. But we’ve been getting people like 100% completed view for four bucks compared to that 16 I mean, it’s like night and day.

Adam G. Force 17:17

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I guess the only thing I see there is you know, you don’t have them on it, I guess. How are you sharing? Because usually have a follow up series. So like, are you doing something to do follow ups then?

Jennifer Spivak 17:29

Retargeting baby all day. And here’s the thing, right at the end of the day, nobody in the world has a 100% open rate on their email system. Right? Like nobody has that. So absolutely doing the follow up sequence through retargeting, I’m not going to say it’s better, you definitely should do email and cross channel and all of that, sure, because it all connects and supports but Facebook and Facebook retargeting ads is actually a better way to have some level of certainty that that message is getting in front of people. So what we’ll normally do, even if we are collecting an email address, and we know that there’s a follow up sequence is we’ll take the already created follow up sequence, and just turn them into a really cool engaging Facebook ads and kind of run the sequence in the same way just to create that everywhere.

Adam G. Force 18:17

Right, right. Right. Nice. That’s awesome. Interesting. And you mentioned earlier, too, that you’re donating to a group.

Jennifer Spivak 18:27

Yes, yes. So, you know, I feel like it’s my personal duty to, you know, as we, you know, grow and make more money. And as I make more money to like, actually make sure I’m being a better person, that’s it make more money, which is often like the opposite of I think, like the stereotype of what we think happens. So that’s just a huge part of everything that I do. And we actually have a partnership with this phenomenal organization, they’re called free from, and they specifically deal with the financial abuse aspect of domestic violence. This is something that is almost never talked about, and I don’t want to get the stat wrong, but it’s something like, you know, 97% of domestic violence victims go back to their abuser, which means being put at the risk of actual death, right? due to due to finances, and all of the resources out there to support survivors and there are plenty are really about having them be physically safe. And thank God for those no doubt. But what about after that? Like, why are we just being like, Okay, well, you’re alive now. And that’s like, kind of surviving as the best you’re gonna be able to do. So. That’s it, like, yeah, nice life, and then they’re back in the cycle of abuse. often they’re in the cycle of homelessness. And so, this organization very specifically works with Helping Survivors get compensated, for example, lost wages of when they were unable to go to work when they were being abused. And it also helps them, start their own businesses learn financial tools, and really go beyond just being a survivor to actually someone that can like live a thriving and abundant life. So we are just so connected and aligned with the work that they do. And we donate, you know, percentage again, of everything that we make for years now to support the work that they do.

Adam G. Force 20:24

That’s amazing. I love that. And it’s just part of, you know, something that’s important to you, and using your skills here with this marketing agency. And it allows you to contribute. So that’s pretty cool. Little setup. Nice system.

Jennifer Spivak 20:38

It really yeah, it’s, you know, for me, everything that I do, in some way, shape or form is connected to how do I put more money in the hands of more women? I think that that’s one of the most important things. No offense to men, I love y’all. That is, to me, one of the most important things that could happen on this planet in 2020. So it’s a huge focus of mine. It’s the reason why I only hire women. It’s the reason why we not exclusively, but very heavily do work mostly with female clients. And then we also have this, you know, philanthropic aspect.

Adam G. Force 21:14

Awesome. Yeah, I love it. And I kind of want to get a little bit into the ideas you have for the future. So where do you see this going at this point? So remind us how long you’ve been active now with the current business, and then we’ll come back the future from there.

Jennifer Spivak 21:33

So it’s been about almost five and a half years now.

Adam G. Force 21:39

Okay, so And now, where do you see this going for the next five years?

Jennifer Spivak 21:44

That is such a good question. You know, I, the one thing I’ll say is that I didn’t see this vision five years ago. So I’m just like, really open to whatever the universe puts in front of me as the next step. But what I really see is just a little bit more growth, I’m actually I actually don’t want to grow to this huge agency, this is a just a big part of like, the vision I have for what it looks like to be able to serve clients at the highest level. And, you know, sometimes as these agencies grow, they have, understandably growing pains, like, totally get it, we all get it. But what ends up happening is client delivery is affected. And the you know, the, the head of the agency, the face of the agency, whoever it is, is not the person that’s actually delivering on the work guiding the strategy, having the face to face time with clients. And, you know, I do have a small team, I’m all for delegating. I’m not like trying to do everything myself anymore. But I do know that having that touch point that face to face time and really being connected to my clients, and like what they’re doing in the world, and what we’re ultimately like, helping them fund, in a way is really, really important to me. So right now we’re a team of six. Again, I don’t know what the universe is gonna put me but the way I it’s hard for me to see us as much more than like a team of eight or 10 at any point in time. Just because I do I love my clients. They’re like, my best friends. I know, that feels like, corny, maybe. And I don’t know if they would hear this and be like, yeah, that’s really weird. But I adore them. I think they’re doing such amazing stuff. And I always want to be connected to them in that way. So I think the vision is to just grow a little bit more continue to provide an amazing service, donate as much money as we can to free from and other domestic violence related organizations that we really care about, and just financially empower as many women as possible.

Adam G. Force 23:54

Hmm, yeah. Well, you got a passion around that, for sure. So yeah, I’d love to see it moving forward. And yeah, you know, sometimes there’s just a value to like, keeping things at a certain level that allow you to have a certain service, right? Because that’s Yes. That’s like defines, like, your values for your business. And what’s important to you?

Jennifer Spivak 24:15

Yes, yeah. You know, I mean, we’ve, we’ve even had, like, just small periods of really fast growth where I could see that, like, if we weren’t careful, we would be in that territory of clients suffering. Yeah, yeah. And so I know for me as I’ve grown from just being like a freelancer who happened to do ads, to stepping it, stepping into it, I call it like, stepping into the visionary CEO role, which like, I think I’m still trying to figure out but I know that like having the big picture vision beyond just revenue and I love money, and I have no shame about it. But the big picture vision separate from that has been really, really crucial for us.

Adam G. Force 24:58

Yeah, I can see that and I think that a lot of people don’t realize just how important it is to, to have that in mind like to have some clarity around those things that are important to you. So the more clarity you have there, just, the quicker you’re gonna move forward to becoming that company that you want to be. Right. It just, it’s just makes it easier.

Jennifer Spivak 25:18

I mean, look, if you if you don’t know where you’re going, you’re going to be a yes to everything. And then yeah, like, like actually knowing what to say no to because you have that clear vision, I think it’s so crucial to growing in a way that doesn’t feel crazy and nuts and just like growth at you know, whatever expense necessary.

Adam G. Force 25:36

Yeah, I was at a summit in California just couple weeks ago. And they says one of the speakers said something that kind of just something you always know, but then a jolted the perspective you ever have that happen where you they like you hear it again, you’re like, Oh, now I really get it. You know, oh, they’re doing this talk. And they’re like, Listen, if I’m a multi seven figure business, and I want it to be $100 million business right now, I wouldn’t know what that looks like. Right? Like, you don’t know what that is. So like you it’s very difficult to get there until you someone can help you or you start chipping away and figuring it out. But isn’t that such a powerful thing? It’s like, you’re right, like, you don’t know what these things look like?

Jennifer Spivak 26:17

No, God, not at all. And it’s just, I just, you know, I, my, my word right now is surrender.

Adam G. Force 26:26

Hmm, that’s interesting.

Jennifer Spivak 26:28

Yeah, just like, just consistently kind of leaning back into surrendering. This is in my personal life and professional life of just like, what, what does the universe have in store for me? And like, isn’t it silly that I would think that like, I’m some like, big figure on the planet that I would have all the answers like, No, no, no, we’re like these small little dots. Yeah, like big, colossal universe. And I’m just like, here for the ride. And I’m open to you know, what, whatever is gonna serve me greatest?

Adam G. Force 27:01

Yeah, no, the big perspective is so helpful. It’s, it’s humbling, but also kind of keeps your anxiety down, because you’re kind of like, hey, yeah, I just have that big picture. And then you just do your best because at the end of the day, it’s it’s really about asking the right questions, and just kind of knowing where you want to go, and then just do it.

Jennifer Spivak 27:21

100%, and just like something I’ve been talking about a lot is being like really being in the process. You know what I mean? Like, I think, as so many entrepreneurs were so results oriented, and so results focused. And that’s great about us, by the way, like, it’s usually like what makes us successful to a point. But I’ve been playing more with just like being in the middle and having that almost be like a result in itself. Yeah. And there is absolutely no coincidence that like, this is something that I’ve been very present to for the last month. And suddenly, we had like our by far, best month ever, nothing’s coincidence. And I continue to see as I grow, that it’s not, yes, I’ve got this funnel working, right. But it’s, it’s not just that it’s never just the marketing tactic, or the funnel, that suddenly has me get to the next level. It’s like, who I’m being and the world and how much I’m investing in my own personal growth. And you know, how I’m just dancing for the universe is giving me that all of a sudden, like, has us, you know, break through to a new revenue level, for example.

Adam G. Force 28:25

That’s it, man. And it’s funny, because everybody gets so hung up on like, the tactical stuff. And I think we’re starting to hear more people talk about this. And you know, it’s common, because you don’t really know what the important marketing is yet, and you start realizing it is about yourself. It’s about your thinking, and how you communicate with people and make connections like you talked about, like, you want to, like, have that connection. That’s good business, you know?

Jennifer Spivak 28:49

Absolutely. Yeah.

Adam G. Force 28:50

How did you get your first client?

Jennifer Spivak 28:54

Oh, that’s such a good question. I’m trying to remember, I think it was honestly completely random. So I’ve been like, a huge part of just my like, my life and my practice is I do a lot of money mindset work and manifesting work. And I, you know, a little bit before I had left field agency, I was like, all right, like, I’m going out there, I have no idea what I’m doing and I get clients better start manifesting. So, you know, I just like had these, you know, these things that I would do every single day to get myself in that energy to be the person that like, you know, ran this six, seven figure business, even though it wasn’t there yet. And really, honestly, like, it does feel like clients fell out of the sky and yet I was being visible. I was always you know, very vocal about what I did. But I do think all of this sort of behind the scenes energetic and mindset work is what made this feel so easy. I mean, my first month on my own, I made $10,000 and as a freelancer planning to potentially make nothing, I was like, Oh, well, okay, then

Adam G. Force 30:07

I can do this.

Jennifer Spivak 30:09

Look at that.

Adam G. Force 30:11

Wow, that’s pretty exciting. Yeah.

Jennifer Spivak 30:13

Yeah. So it’s been, you know, the first and I think this is common, I hear this for people all the time, especially in any sort of service based business. But the first, like, three years or so was very much in person stuff going to networking events, speaking at events, word of mouth, and referrals. And it wasn’t really, it wasn’t really till I had that sort of solid foundation, and I think had reached my max with relying solely on word of mouth and referrals that I then sort of expand to, you know, online stuff online funnels, you know, actually using social media for my own business. Yeah. And now, I mean, clients just come from from all over the place. I’ve been really lucky that get, you know, have a decent amount of brand awareness. Yeah. Cool.

Adam G. Force 30:58

Yeah. Very exciting. I love it. It sounds like you have a lot of good stuff going on. And I love the fact that, that cause that’s really great. So I want to be respectful of your time. So we’ll wrap up here and how do people connect with you if they want to work with you or see what you’re up to? Where do they go?

Jennifer Spivak 31:16

So obviously, you know, I’m called the Facebook ads girl, because I live on Facebook. So that’s definitely a great place to connect with me. I’m just Jennifer Spivak on Facebook. And then if anyone’s interested in booking a call to see if we are a good fit to work together, you would want to go to www.jenniferspivak.com

Adam G. Force 31:36

Awesome. Jennifer, thank you so much for your time today really enjoyed the talk.

Jennifer Spivak 31:40

Likewise, thank you so much.

Adam G. Force 31:47

Thanks for tuning in to the Change Creator podcast visit us at Change creator.com forward slash go big to get access to free downloads and other great resources that will drive your business forward.

Jennifer Kaylo Ruscin: What You Need to Win in the Retail Space

Listen to our exclusive interview with Jennifer Kayla Ruscin:

Subscribe to this show on Spotify  |  iTunes  |  Stitcher  |  Soundcloud

What does it take to get your product in a store like Walmart? We spoke to expert, Jennifer Kaylo Ruscin to find out the secrets to winning in retail today.

More About Jennifer:

She has dedicated the last 17 years to serving shoppers in the retail space, both brick and mortar and online, bringing to market innovative products and brands.

In serving her clients, she has sat at the table with hundred-million dollar CEO’s, helping them to create multi-million dollar brands in retailers.

And in creating her own million dollar company she has learned how to attract a perfectly aligned client, and create both the business and personal life you dream about.

Learn more about Jennifer and her work at > Jenniferkayloruscin.com

We also recommend:

Transcription of Interview

(Transcribed by Otter.ai, there may be errors)

Adam G. Force 00:03

Welcome to the Change Creator podcast where entrepreneurs come to learn how to live their truth, get rich and make a massive difference in the world. I’m your host Adam forest co founder, Change Creator and co creator of the captivate method. Each week we talk to experts about leadership, digital marketing and sales strategies that you can implement in your business and life to go big. Visit us at Change Creator comm forward slash go big to grab awesome resources that will help drive your business forward. Hey, what’s up, buddy? Welcome back to the chase credit podcast. This is your host that unforced Hope you guys are doing amazing today, we have a really great conversation that we actually recorded a while ago with Jennifer Ruskin. And we never put it live because it snuck away from us. And it’s kind of like that thing that went between the cushions of the couch and you just kind of lost track of it. So we are excited that we found this and we have it ready for you to check out Jennifer is a rock star, somebody that was in our mastermind summit that we met back in California in 2020, before the whole COVID thing really struck. And so I was excited to have this conversation. She’s been in business for like 20 years, serving people in the retail space. So both brick and mortar and online. So she helps people bring innovative products to market. And she’s worked with, you know, $100 million brands and retailers that she has supported and consulted for so she has a ton of expertise. And you don’t want to miss this out especially if you’re in the retail space. Now if you missed the last episode was with Parker Stevenson from evolved finance, we talked about what you need to know about your numbers, when you should start thinking about it, how to get organized, how to maximize your profits, all that good stuff. That’s not a conversation you want to miss. So make sure you go back and check that out. Last but not least, don’t forget to follow us on Facebook, we have a strong presence there. And that’s kind of where we do all our, our sharing. And we have our Facebook group via Change Creator, we get a little bit deeper into some of the insights around branding, storytelling and all that fun stuff. Alright guys, without further ado, let’s dive into this conversation with Jennifer. Okay, show me the heat. Hey, Jennifer, welcome to the Change Creator podcast show how you doing today?

Jennifer Kaylo 02:27

I’m awesome. Thank you for having me.

Adam G. Force 02:29

Yeah, well, thanks for being here. And I appreciate you taking the time. You know, um, you know, ecommerce is not our space here at Change Creator. So I love to tap into other people’s expertise and just learn a little bit more about you know, like, you have incredible program helping people get into Walmart and stores like that, which could be game changers for people, right? So tell me a little bit about your background, and just kind of how you got to this position of like, why you’re doing what you’re doing. And you know, a little bit what’s going on in your world today.

Jennifer Kaylo 02:58

Awesome. Thank you. Okay, so my background is really it’s brick and mortar, and it’s mass retail. So I started at Walmart, home office, I don’t know how many people actually start at Walmart home office, working for the largest company in the entire world. But it was me, that’s what I did. It was back in 2005. And I was in my mid 20s. And I fell in love with retail. Like, it was so amazing to watch, the buyer that I worked for have the power to choose what ended up on the actual retail shelves that other humans went and purchased, it was the coolest thing. And at one point, I got to even develop a totally organic all natural hair dryer that failed miserably once it hit stores. But it was so cool to get to be a part of that process. And I think, you know, I think that your audience is really full of small business owners and entrepreneurial spirits. And hey, maybe they’ve tried to make a hairdryer and maybe they’ve tried to make barbecue sauce or something and you finally get it out into the world. And sometimes you have to tweak it a little bit, right once it finally gets out. So after spending seven years at Walmart, I realized, I think that there might be more than just these little cubicle walls that surround me I’d had my first child, my second child, I finished my MBA, and I looked up like bright and shiny eyed and I thought I’m gonna go get on LinkedIn. Okay, it’s time to like get a LinkedIn profile and see what else is on the other side of my cubicle walls. And within Walmart, this is like a really dirty bad thing to do. Like you don’t go work for the dark side is what they call it, which is like the supplier world. But that’s what I did. So I left and I started working for nature’s path organic food, and fell in love with the food business. I grocery is so much fun. And it’s always innovative and to see what food trends are cool this year, but like not cool the next year and what’s coming next is so much fun. And I think as we’re all preparing for Expo West, in just a couple weeks, we’re all like anticipating what’s going to be the next food trend. So I did that for about a year and a half and then I got really bored like Adam, I was like okay, I’ve had my MBA, I’m super smart, I’m used to working the job of five different people at Walmart. And all I do is yoga all day, like I have nothing to do working for natures path, I’m so bored. And so I thought, I’m just going to open up my own brokerage firm, then I can sell like bicycles and tents and food if I want to. And so that’s what I’ve done for the last five years, almost six. I’m in my sixth year now. And so I help companies sell into Walmart, in stores and into Amazon.

Adam G. Force 05:27

Interesting. That’s pretty cool. Yeah. And, and so I guess what are some of the commonalities of like getting into a place like Amazon versus Walmart, I guess some of the differences and commonalities?

Jennifer Kaylo 05:41

Well, you know, I kind of looking, I kind of look at it as a stepping stone or like as a launchpad. So for me, Amazon can be multiple things for you, it can be the one destination that you sell your product based business in. And you can literally grow a million dollar plus account just being on Amazon. The amazing thing about Amazon, there’s no buyers, there’s nobody to tell you. No, there’s no slotting fees, there’s like there’s so many amazing positives to Amazon, one negative, well, there’s a lot of negatives, but the first one that pops out to me is you don’t own your customer, you don’t own the customer, you don’t own the customer experience. There’s third parties everywhere, right? So it’s kind of like the Wild West, and you never know how your product is going to end up in the hands of shoppers and consumers and people that can write you a bad review. So there are definitely some ways that you can control that shopping experience for your shopper and for your brand. And that’s where I think people like me come into place to help educate you and teach you or even manage your account. I manage 20 different Amazon client accounts at this point. And I only keep 20 on my roster, but we help them get those third party wild west guys off. So I love Amazon so much. There’s so much waste so many ways to make money on Amazon. But then there’s other people in another boat where they’re like, Hmm, I really want to be in brick and mortar, or I want to expand my brick and mortar distribution. So they might be in smaller stores like a bylo or a shop ride or something like that. Yeah. And they want to be in target. They want to be in Walmart, they want to be in larger grocery stores and chains in mass retail. Costco, you get the idea. Oh, yeah. And so in those instances, I like to use Amazon as a launch pad to get into brick and mortar.

Adam G. Force 07:27

Gotcha. Gotcha.

Jennifer Kaylo 07:29

Yeah. Do you want to know how to do that?

Adam G. Force 07:31

Yeah, I’m gonna let you keep on going until us yeah.

Jennifer Kaylo 07:34

So the ways to do that are you have to get your products on page one for your category. Again, there’s definitely a way in the system to do that. But you want to get your products on page one. So for example, like I’m looking at my desk right now, and I have Lacroix sitting on my desk. I if I am Lacroix I want to be on page one, so that the other retailer start to see me they know who I am, they might decide that they want Lacroix in their own stores. Because I’ve done all the heavy lifting. And shoppers are now looking for me. They’re looking for me in Walmart, they’re looking for me and target. And so you kind of have you have a much more weight as a brand. When you can say, look, there are millions of customers that are buying from me off of Amazon every single year. Why would you not put this on your shelf? I at least deserve a buyer meeting.

Adam G. Force 08:21

Yeah. And so is it difficult? Like I mean, obviously, it’s difficult, but like, what are some of the criteria like is it super saturated? Like I just give a quick example, like I was reading about this guy, Mike pero for because you mentioned Costco, it made me think of him and he’s like head of merchandising over there. And he said that, you know, they get saturated, let’s say you have a laundry detergent that’s good for the environment or something and you want to get on the shelf at Costco, well, they have 100, laundry detergents pitching for that shelf space, right. And he’s like, you know, everyone, you can compete on price, you compete on different features, whatever it might be. And in the end, he’s like, I have to make decisions about who gets on the shelf in Costco, and it comes down to who I liked the most and who I trust the most.

Jennifer Kaylo 09:08

Uuuh. Know, like and trust. Those are three really important terms, three important factors to be as a brand. A I think club business is very different than even brick and mortar business, and especially in mass and that club only has four slots for detergent. That’s it, and it’s gonna be the four top brands, they may have one position where they’re willing to try something like new and upcoming and hot and whatever, right. For Sam’s Club, they’ve almost done like the opposite. And I know that kirklands is super strong and Costco and they do have a really great house brand. But Sam’s Club is now like we only want to be private label. So they swung in like the totally opposite pendulum, which is really frustrating as a brand. Because you may have had distribution and now you don’t. And now you’re scratching your head like what where the hell do I sell if I can’t sell online, or I can’t sell in a big brick and mortar and there’s a bunch of different ways, I think to protect yourself as a brand, where you can’t put all your eggs in one basket anymore. You can’t just be on Amazon because Amazon might shut you off. Right?

Adam G. Force 10:10

And so what is it? What is a company like? So we talked about like Costco, which is like these, you know, club brands, and then we have like a Walmart. So, what’s different? Like, what is Walmart looking for? I mean, you talk about getting that presence on page one and all that kind of stuff, because you’re stirring the demand. Okay, the demands there. So give people what they want. What What is like the criteria from Walmart, and how competitive is it really to get on the shelf in comparison to the Costco’s of the world and stuff?

Jennifer Kaylo 10:39

That’s a great question, I would say a little less competitive, but only because Walmart has way more shelf space and way more options. And they may have one facing as opposed to an entire pallet in a cost. Or you only have four options. I think what we’re seeing in terms of private label in Costco in Sam’s Club in all these other guys, it’s the same thing is happening within Walmart, it is becoming so difficult to get items into Walmart. So you really, really do have to be best to the best. So even if you are on page one, and you may be our position one, position two, or even position five on Amazon, even that is a challenge. Now I will say you can use Amazon to get a buyer meeting, you can use Amazon to continue to get some space in brick and mortar. But even just a few years ago, where I’d almost guaranteed you a spot on a retail shelf, just because you were positioned one or two and Amazon, I would say even even now in what 2020 it’s becoming increasingly difficult now I don’t know if we’re gonna see a trend in retail away from private label, like the pendulum has swung so far into private label right now, that unless you’re a mass CPG brand, you’re really not going to be on shelf, right? Unless you are so incredibly trendy. Like I’m thinking bulletproof, like bulletproof coffee, right? If you walked in Walmart today, and you’re over in that OTC area, you’re gonna see a big feature like an endcap, full of bullet bulletproof coffee. And it’s all fixtured. And it’s beautiful, and it’s branded. But they’re not necessarily sitting in the middle of an aisle. Right, right. Because even them even they haven’t earned a spot permanently in the fixture there. They’re testing it, they’re trying it. So there are some additional options to within brick and mortar. And I would assume Walmart is very similar to the other ones that you can at least get a feature in or get a test in, because you have shown up and done your work on Amazon.

Adam G. Force 12:38

Okay. Yeah, I mean, that makes sense. It’s kind of like, cuz you mentioned earlier, it’s like a stepping stone in some of these strategies, just to, I guess, kind of keep increasing your distribution. And it makes me think to like, I guess, targets gonna be similar, right? It’s a big store, they expanded quite a bit with the number of stores, more shelf space, all that good stuff. And like I was in there with my wife, you know, we stopped in there every so often. And I would look at some of the men’s clothing and I saw, like, you know, the socks, t shirts, underwear, all that stuff, they have everything. And I saw this brand Goodfellas. And it was just like one small section. And the next thing you know, I see another section, another section. And then they redesigned the store just last week, and they have all this other product lines like men’s like you know, stuff for your beard and your hair and everything else. And I’m like, all of a sudden, over the past like three to four months, this brand has started as like a spotlight like test and it’s just started taking over Target like how Yeah, how does that happen? Did I lose you?

Jennifer Kaylo 13:42

Nope, sorry. I’m right here. How does that happen? I think Target for one is very, very open to trying new things, right? So they’re willing to like go all in on the Goodfellow line and bring it in like the beard oil and bringing in the cap and bringing in the belt and all of that stuff and putting it all in one space, which is so cool. But as you as you just mentioned, though, they started small, right, like and that’s their own private label brand. So they test it.

Adam G. Force 14:10

Was it is it I didn’t even know it was there own private label. I told Luanne, my wife, I was like, I bet you this is their own brand. That that’s why it’s getting so much attention here too. Yes, it is. And target is another good example of private label ownership. And I actually did another podcast just on this exact topic. As women we want to go and buy Archer farms because it’s so trendy because target knows what we want as women. Like if you go into target and you go into the coffee section, you’re going to find like delightful caramel macchiato with a splash of mint like something that’s really decadent and really interesting. That’s not on shelf in any other retailer. But target knows what women want. Right? So the cool thing is they’re figuring out what men want now to do right with this Goodfellow brand and it’s like Men want these really trendy sunglasses that are so cool and different that they can’t find anywhere else. Or this like super amazing moisturizing, good smelling shave gel. Right? That you don’t find at Walmart. Yeah, no, it’s true. It’s true. And, you know, it’s interesting, because if you’re doing your homework, you look around at these things, and you look at what’s being featured and grows, you could start seeing what’s starting to expand in the store. And then obviously, you know, that’s what’s selling. So you can look at that and say, okay, there’s the trend, like, that’s, that’s what’s working today. That’s what people want, right?

Jennifer Kaylo 15:33

Yeah. And the cool thing about private label for a retailer is they can move so much faster, because they have direct relationships with that manufacturer, versus having to go through a third party, which are what most brands do today, right? We go and we source it from China. And we’re the middleman between the retailer and the manufacturer. But when it’s private label, they have the direct line to the manufacturer to go, Hey, this blouse in this particular color blue with these particular buttons are selling like crazy. Can you quadruple our order and get it to us in like two weeks, right? Yeah. And then they can even airfreight it over it’s just it’s totally changed the game.

Adam G. Force 16:11

Now, have you seen Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

Jennifer Kaylo 16:13

No, I was just thinking I’m like, but has the customer or have we decided that brands aren’t important anymore? And that’s what I think we’ve yet to figure out.

Adam G. Force 16:22

Yeah, that’s an interesting concept. I mean, in my mind, I think that it depends, like I see it depends on products. But like, just for example, I just did a video the other day about this, because it’s fresh in my mind. But I there, the Edelman report came out in 2019. And they do a trust barometer. And so what they found is that less than 50% of the general population trust brands, and then when they’re buying products, one of the top ranking factors they consider when buying a product is brand trust. So when you start thinking about does the brand matter? I don’t know. Like if it’s something like buying toothpaste, maybe maybe not. But I think that brand trust does play a role. And if you’re Apple or Google, you’ve already taken the time and the effort and spent the money to build brand trust. But when you have your brand in the first couple years, you’re gonna have to earn that trust, because people are putting red flags up, right? They want to know like, are you doing something that is going to pollute our oceans? And are you? Are you fair trade? Or are you paying people poorly? Like, what is your circumstance? And I think you’re seeing more of that from people today.

Jennifer Kaylo 17:28

Mm hmm. And then does it matter even by age range? Is it the boomers care so much about the give back? Or is that a millennial or Gen Z thing? Right, exactly. I don’t know if you’ve known noticed this or not that PBS is doing. They’ve just produced something about Amazon. It’s all about Jeff Bezos, my husband and I were watching it the other night. And you hear Jeff Bezos say, we are creating a brand that people love. And he said this like 20-30 years ago, and everybody looked at him like what are you talking about? And you think about the brands that you love, like you and I are about the same age. And I would say like I love Tesla. I can’t wait to own a Tesla. I love Amazon. I want to deliver what I want.

Adam G. Force 18:10

Why do you love Tesla?

Jennifer Kaylo 18:10

Why do I love Tesla, I love the way that it looks. I love the way that it feels sexy. I love the way that it’s good for the environment. I love the idea of never having to put gas in my car ever again. I love Elon Musk because he’s a little quirky, but he is so futuristic and brilliant. And I want a piece of that.

Adam G. Force 18:28

And that’s that, I feel the same way. And like he said we’re around the same age and like what Elon musk stands for. And I like what he’s doing because it’s it’s sustainable. It’s big thinking and I feel like he’s doing he’s always pushing to do what’s in our best interest not only for us now but for future generations, you know.

Jennifer Kaylo 18:49

Yep, absolutely. And through this PBS special Bezos is actually saying the same thing. Like there’s this video with him as a kid giving a speech about the future and about you know, traveling to space and colonizing…

Adam G. Force 19:04


Jennifer Kaylo 19:06

Colonizing. And it’s so cool like is then they do a slash forward and it’s like his spaceship taking off like him and Matt and Ilan I think are so similar in terms of being like so much farther beyond any of us and so much smarter than they you know, ever get. Like none of us are anywhere near as smart and intelligent as they are and it’s so cool to watch them create these companies that explode but also have the love trust factor, right?

Adam G. Force 19:32

Yeah, they did a really good job with that. And you’re right see, they’re out there telling these stories. They’re out there sharing their like, what they stand for what they believe in and all of a sudden the brand is driven by that stuff and it does connect with people. And and I think you made a great point about age bracket because it the younger the kids get, the more they’re looking for the organic, sustainable fair trade like you know, the plastic pollution things obviously become huge. So You know, we want to see brands, like seventh generation on the shelf at Target and Walmart, right? Because they have good ethos. So yeah, it’s really great. And I’m hoping that as people are listening here today, you know, they have these e commerce products that they can get excited about. And I want them to work with people like you to get them on the shelf, if they’re making a difference, you know?

Jennifer Kaylo 20:20

Yes, yeah, for sure. And cool. The coolest thing is, and back to like back to take us back from Jeff Bezos in space to Walmart. Yeah, I’m gonna ground us back in Walmart again. And I don’t know how many of your listeners actually shop at Walmart. I know, like, just depending on what state you’re in, and even what city some of them are dirty and gross. And some of them are amazing and spectacular, like the ones in Bentonville, Arkansas, where I live. But almost every single category now has an organic option. And last week, I bought like $200 worth of groceries and cleaning supplies, everything was organic. And I thought if I was at Whole Foods, I guarantee my basket would be 400 $500. Yeah, yeah. And I’m so grateful that Walmart has like taken the positioning of, we’re gonna find out how to help you save more and live better, even with organics, and even in specialty foods. And, and these really amazing brands are starting to show up on shelves.

Adam G. Force 21:15

Yeah, no that’s good to hear. Because, you know, they produce so much and there’s if they have a stronger stance on those things, it would help pull in brands and make them successful, they can really be a big factor in solving some big issues like that. Right. So it’s always easy to promote the cheapest thing, but that’s not there’s actually other costs aside from money than then when you have like dirty products, you know what I mean?

Jennifer Kaylo 21:41


Adam G. Force 21:42

Yeah. And that’s one thing I loved about Costco, too, is, you know, they, he has quite a story. It’s all about trying to do what aligns to certain values and stuff. And there’s a lot of good options in there. So anybody listening, I don’t know. But like, we find a lot of stuff. We’re vegetarian, my wife and I, and we find all kinds of good, organic, healthy, like they really do push the envelope and try to bring in products like that also. So yeah, it’s interesting to see how things are evolving. And I’m curious if you’ve noticed with, you know, startups and stuff, I’m one thing I’ve always shied away from e commerce, why I always shied away from e commerce and products and stuff is it feels kind of like, wow, I have to like figure out one a product, like the development, the testing, and then I got to have inventory and I gotta have fulfillment. And it’s, it’s a pretty like expensive cycle. It feels like a lot of overhead expense wise. And I’m curious how you have noticed, maybe some of the entrepreneurs like is it? Like you can’t do drop shipping, right? If you want to get in a store? Like how does that? Do you have any insight around that how that works

Jennifer Kaylo 22:44

It is. I just wrote an article just last week, or even earlier this week, I can’t even remember, a few days ago that was about that. Like, if you don’t have capital, and you can’t do it well, don’t do it at all, please don’t, it will only cost you money and energy and frustration. And so of course, there’s amazing groups that do help you get investors and help you with preliminary funding and all of that kind of stuff. And so if you’re listening, and you don’t have that, go seek that out, either ask me or ask Adam or find somebody because it is so expensive to do business with brick and mortar. It’s even very expensive to do business with Amazon. I mean, I would say it’s the cheapest, fastest, quickest way to make money. But to really do it right and to really grow the brand. And for me, I only work with clients that have the potential to make a million plus dollars in revenue per year. So I wouldn’t take a barbecue sauce. You know what I mean? I know what it takes. There are certain categories that just currently today, if it’s a really easy, cheap commodity in a brick and mortar store, people are probably going to stop off at the dollar store and grab it on. Yeah, but there’s so many categories, especially in food that are growing, triple, quadruple digit, it’s incredible how fast they’re growing. So your question, I guess is particularly just around brick and mortar, and yeah,

Adam G. Force 24:06

I think you’ve answered it . It’s expensive.

Jennifer Kaylo 24:09

It’s expensive. Yeah, if you’re selling directly to Walmart stores, you have to get set up with EDI, you have to have million dollars plus just in liability insurance, you have to have a system in a warehouse. And I mean, like it’s very expensive. If you were to ship with Amazon, you could sell, you could you could just set it up in Seller Central and have Amazon be responsible for the shipping and the distributing and the logistics and the customer service and all of that which is amazing. And you bet you basically consign your inventory to Amazon and every two weeks they cut you a check. It’s beautiful.

Adam G. Force 24:39

So you could drop ship through Amazon but you obviously can’t do that with like Walmart and stuff. So the brick and mortar is more Walmart and if you didn’t want to have inventory and fulfillment, responsibility responsibilities, Amazon can handle that for you.

Jennifer Kaylo 24:52

Totally, yes.

Adam G. Force 24:54

Okay. Yeah, that’s pretty cool. And have you noticed certain types of products you mentioned food space is growing rapidly. Like, is there like men’s nutrition? Women’s, you know, health care products? Like, have you noticed anything else that’s been pretty popular?

Jennifer Kaylo 25:11

I’ve noticed that everything is growing at least 20, 30, 40% year over year, just in general, food is exploding. There’s some categories that are tougher. So you mentioned men’s nutrition, I have a kid’s vegan, organic gummy vitamin that is so expensive these days to advertise it, again, unless you have major capital, it is almost it’s almost impossible to grow. Because keyword bidding on keywords are three to $5 per click, right? So unless you have 5000 to $10,000 a month marketing budget that you’re willing to not make any ROI office for at least six months. Yeah, don’t play in those overly saturated categories. Again, foods doing great, ready to eat great, dry grocery, anything in the direct grocery space. Think also outside of food, anything that’s expensive. And light is where you find the most profit. That’s a great tip.

Adam G. Force 26:09

Expensive and light. I like that. Yeah, I’ve heard people talk about that. With e commerce they keep you want simple products that are not really expensive to produce, but they have like a lot of value behind them and stuff. And yes, that’s smart.

Jennifer Kaylo 26:24

And conveyable like don’t think kayak. If it’s not conveyable it’s really difficult and really expensive for Amazon to move that around the country for you.

Adam G. Force 26:33

Yeah, I mean, a three or $4 just to get a click. That’s, that’s, that’s expensive. You definitely need an investor on that. Yep. Damn, all right, interesting. Well, cuz I’m like, I’m like, I shaved my head, I went… As soon as I saw I started losing hair. I was like, I’m just doing the the shave. And that’s it, taking the hair off. And I got into like some of the men’s products, like, you know, stuff to take care of your skin or your beard and stuff like that. And I was always like, man, it would be really cool. There’s some things missing in the market that I look for that I don’t really find. And I would be like, man, I would love to get into that space. And I know it can do well, but it would take a ton of marketing power, a ton of like, you know, money just to get the brand set up. And I always shy away from it. We’re not there.

Jennifer Kaylo 27:20

Yeah, it’s really expensive. So one thing that I’ve noticed, and I’ve been managing clients now for almost six years, as I mentioned, in theirs, there was a point last year where I was like, This is exhausting, it would be so much easier if I just created my own products. But when you start to look at what that costs, and the time and the energy, it’s really a full time job, at least in my opinion, to figure out really what’s the best item and then find the manufacturer and then have them create a prototype and then have them send it from overseas, and then you look at it and then you approve it, or you send your changes and then and then you have to order it and then you have to pay for it. And you have to not get scammed while you pay for it. So like a quick side note, use Alibaba because there’s insurance and I had a friend lose like $40,000, because he got scammed through some other thing. It was not Alibaba, and he was like, I’ll never not go through there again. So if you are interested in that, I love Jungle Scout, and they just rolled out a brand new tool that you can subscribe to that will tell you by item on Amazon, exactly who their manufacturer is over in China or whatever country it is. And they’ll tell you, you know, hey, here’s how to get ahold of them. And here’s how, you know if you want to go create your own thing. And one thing I would caution you to is, you don’t want to be first to market unless you have a million dollars sitting in a bank to go spend to launch the product, right, you want to find whitespace in the market. So use tools like Jungle Scout use tools like merchant words. And I’ve got an online course as well as when I managed my one on one clients where I teach you and I use these tools, and I show you how to use them. And that’s what you want to do. So you want to find something where there’s high search ability, so people are looking for it. But then there’s a low amount of actual sales and a low amount of actual products that show up for the search results. That gives you the whitespace. And that’s where you know shoppers are looking for it. They can’t find it on Amazon, or they can’t you know, are they and this is these are particularly you know, Amazon programs because that’s what I deal with all day. But they’re great tools to use and then go Okay, we need to go develop something like a great example. I have a real example for you. And it’s with trash cans. So I had a potential client, I didn’t end up working with them. So I feel comfortable sharing this story. But they came to me and they were like, Hey, we sell these boxes that are for recyclable things that your normal recycler doesn’t take. So it’s like batteries or whatever, those kind of things, one off things. And so you go on Amazon or you go to them directly and you get this box sent to your home, you put the weird thing in it and then you send it back to them and then they recycle it. So these are people that like really love the planet and really, really, really want to pay extra to go send their stuff back And apparently there’s a huge market for it because they’re making millions of dollars a year doing this. So I started to research on Amazon and I used the tools, I got to Jungle Scout, I use merchant words, I’m looking at shopper search, I’m looking at what’s coming up. And there’s nothing like that in the market. But there’s a huge whitespace for recyclable trash cans, and recyclable bags that go in trash cans, and three and four sorting trash cans. So if anyone’s listening, and you want to go find an item, that there’s white space for everyone, I gave you like a whole category. And what’s interesting in that space is no one’s really winning in this space. There’s no one or two brands that are the top brands in that space. So you could easily go dominate, and then come back in with your kind of like one off brown boxes that you mail out for the weird things that you need to recycle, right? And then then you have like validity, and customers are like, Oh, yeah, I know that brand. Because it’s sitting in my kitchen. It’s the trash can in the kitchen. Oh, yeah. Those are the bags that we use for the bathroom. Yeah, bathrooms, right? Yeah. So you get the idea.

Adam G. Force 31:02

Yeah, no, I love it. Okay, so listen, we’re I mean, that’s all super, very helpful. A lot of good tips, guys. So hope you’re taking notes and listening closely. If you’re looking to get in the e commerce space and get heavy on products get out there, Jennifer will be a great person to work with. And we’ll give a shout out in just a minute to where you can connect with her and see what she has going on and how she can help you. I also don’t want to scare you from creating your own product. It is it’s been done over and over again. Look at the Jake or x of the world that we’ve interviewed. He has his own products that are doing incredible things for the world. Look at Crystal Earle. She came out of Dominica, and she’s helping people over there. And it’s amazing, Jennifer, she basically was taking these tires that were filling up landfills causing all kinds of disease and infestations and all these problems with the community. And she decided she would make shoes that would use the tires, rubber for the soles of the shoes. And she had them like put together she started selling them on her own and the brand started catching and she did a lot of like roadshows going a little like tradeshow conferences and stuff. And now they have clothing and all kinds of other stuff. So they expanded. So there are grassroots efforts for small ecommerce companies like that, that do a build up. And then as those brands catch fire, you’d be ready to get out maybe in bigger stores and stuff like that. So it depends on your process and your strategy. Right. So you just gotta like, figure out the game plan. I guess.

Jennifer Kaylo 32:24

I love that you said that. Because that’s a huge caveat. Here I am. My background is mass retail. And I think in mass and how fast you can scale. Adam, you’re totally right. There’s two different ways to grow. One is organically, it’s profitably, it’s slow and steady wins the race, which is exactly what you’re talking about. The other is how fast can we scale. And a lot of times scale to sell, which may be a very small portion of who your listeners are. But I just wanted to give you my perspective from a mass retail specialist.

Adam G. Force 32:54

I mean, it’s important because even if you are small and you start organically, you could start selling locally at little like, you know, farmers markets for all I care. But I have another friend who started making her own food like cookies, and they were gluten free and a certain type of thing going on there. She went to farmers markets for like a year. Next thing you know, she’s in Whole Foods, right? So it’s like, oh, cool. This is what happens. And like, yeah, you know, so I think it’s a multi stage strategy, you just have to think, how do I start proving this? How do I do that little, you know, very cheap, like product test and get it out there. See if people like it. And if it starts catching you just slowly build on it, slowly grow it and then you’re ready to get into the marketplace, like Target potentially, or whole foods or whatever. So it’s just a matter of strategy. And I think you’re a mass you get into the mass markets. But there is a very important place for that. So Timing is everything, right? Absolutely. So let’s give a shout out. Because we’re running out of time here. I want to give an actually on behind here. So let’s give a shout out. How can people find you? You know, so if they’re ready to really scale up on Amazon and Walmart, where do they find you so they can learn more about how to connect?

Jennifer Kaylo 34:01

Yeah, and I’m sure that Adam will put this link in the show notes. My website is Jenniferkayloruscin.com And you just click on work with me. And there’s multiple different ways one leads to courses. So if you’re interested in Amazon, I have something called the a game A stands for Amazon. And then if you have interest in Walmart, I have one called the path to Walmart. So either one of those will teach you from step one all the way till the end. It’s a DIY method of how to sell and both of those retailers super valuable guys. So

Adam G. Force 34:33

Super valuable guys. So check that out. If you’re in the ecommerce space, it might be perfect timing for you. Jennifer, thank you so much for your time today. Appreciate it.

Jennifer Kaylo 34:41

You’re welcome. Thank you so much for having me.

Adam G. Force 34:42

You got it. I’ll talk to you later. Thanks for tuning into the Change Creator podcast visit us at Change creator.com forward slash go big to get access to free downloads and other great resources that will drive your business forward.

Parker Stevenson: Understanding Your Financials to Get the Most From Your Biz

Listen to our exclusive interview with Parker Stevenson:

Subscribe to this show on Spotify  |  iTunes  |  Stitcher  |  Soundcloud

When should you get serious about know your financials and what do you need to know? Are you leaving money on the table? Parker Stevenson is co-owner of Evolved Finance and is a financial strategist who works with online business. We talk to Parker to dig into everything you need to know.

Learn more about Parker and his work at > evolvedfinance.com

We also recommend:

Transcription of Interview

(Transcribed by Otter.ai, there may be errors)

Parker Stevenson 00:03

Welcome to the Change Creator podcast where entrepreneurs come to learn how to live their truth get rich and make a massive difference in the world. I’m your host Adam forest co founder, Change Creator and co creator of the captivate method. Each week we talk to experts about leadership, digital marketing and sales strategies that you can implement in your business and life to go big visit us at Change Creator.com/gobig to grab awesome resources that will help drive your business forward. Hey, what’s up everybody? Welcome back to the change credit podcast show Sorry for the delay getting this episode out. We’re usually out on Wednesday mornings we had a serious studio crash with our computers as we tried to update to a new operating system. And we ended up having to erase our hard drives and start all over from scratch again. So we are back in action here and ready to rock and roll with a great interview today with our buddy Parker Stevenson. He is one of the Co-owners of a company called Evolved Finance. Evolved Finance is a great, great company that is designed strategically to help you with your bookkeeping as an entrepreneur, coaches, course creators, whatever it might be service companies, and they help you really understand your numbers, make better decisions and see where you might be overspending. underspending, where money is left on the table, and how to really start forecasting for the future. So you can increase your revenues in a very smart way. And it’s such an important part of running our businesses. So we’re excited to have Parker on today. And we’re gonna dive into all kinds of good stuff regarding your financial management. If you missed the last episode, I highly recommend you go back and check it out. It is an episode with Amy and myself here at Change Creator talking about why so many entrepreneurs start on a high, but crash later on down the road. Lots of good insights from our experience in there. It’s a good one to dive into guys. So check that out. When you get a chance. Don’t forget to stop by Change creator.com lots of good stuff going on there with updates and content and goodies. And at the same time, follow us on Facebook. That is our primary spot guys. We share all kinds of stuff there and on in our Facebook group. If you want to get inside the Facebook group, be a Change Creator. That is the Facebook group. All right. I’m not gonna hold this up anymore. Let’s dive into this conversation with Parker. Okay, show me the heat.

Adam G. Force 02:35

Hey, Parker. Welcome to the Change Creator podcast. How you doing today, buddy?

Parker Stevenson 02:39

I’m doing great, Adam. Thanks for having me, man.

Adam G. Force 02:41

Yeah, absolutely. I’m excited to have you here. So for people that don’t know, and I don’t think any of you do. Parker and I met, actually right before the Coronavirus in California at a, I guess I call it a mastermind summit of some kind, right, this was for a program that I was actually invested in. And he was doing a presentation out there to support entrepreneurs like us in the finance category. And basically, they’re masters of your books, and they help you optimize, grow your business, do all this great stuff. So I want to bring Parker on here because he’s just a really valuable expert in this space. So he’s going to help you understand what you need to know about your finances, especially in the early days of your startup. So Parker, if you could just kind of give people a little bit of insight on your background so they know where you’re coming from. And that kind of in a nutshell, really.

Parker Stevenson 03:42

Yeah. So again, my name is Parker Stevenson. I am the CO owner and Chief Business Officer for a bookkeeping firm called Evolved Finance. We really specialize in doing bookkeeping for online businesses. So a lot of you know, all of our clients are selling coaching programs and courses and membership sites and online services and influencer business models. just pretty much anyone not selling physical inventory. That’s been our primary target audience. And I will admit, for me, I never thought I would be co owner of a bookkeeping business. It just was not the path I thought I’d be on but I was I kind of grew up feeling like I was a, you know, a creative identified as a creative and when I went to college, I started a band. I was a musician for a number of years and Los Angeles had a great time. And when the band broke up, decided, hey, what else do I like to do as I really like golf, and then move back down to San Diego from Los Angeles and go work for one of the big Gulf manufacturers. So I ended up getting a job at Adidas golf and I worked there for another five years. While I was in the band. I worked for an automotive consultant, which was kind of like a small online business really, at the time. It was a website database that all the big manufacturers subscribed to. So I kind of had a little taste to entrepreneurship, being in a band and working for a small business, make the move to Adidas, which was a tremendous experience. I kind of look at It is my NBA, because I just learned so much had some great mentors there. But also kind of realize, I don’t think I want to be a little cog in a big machine. And so I was talking with my business partner, now business partner, Cory, who’s really friend, him and his wife were best friends with my wife. And I was like, I think I can help you guys grow this business. And so took the leap of faith taught me how to do bookkeeping taught me about the financial side of online businesses. And I share all this because now I feel like, I’m kind of an expert on finance for small business. And I thought I was a creative, I thought I was gonna be a rock star. And so I like to use that as a story just to show people that, you know, we have so many clients that don’t start businesses, because they’re like, Oh, I can’t wait to dive into spreadsheets and talk about taxes, you know, where we get into our businesses, because we want to make an impact, we want to make a good living, right, like all the reasons, but we get afraid that all this finance stuff, I don’t get it, it seems to complicate I don’t have to deal with it. And I’m a perfect example of someone who very easily could have been that person that would just avoid avoided numbers. But once I got exposure to it, with my time at Adidas, and, and obviously growing this business, and of all finance, I think we just all make it so much more complicated that we need to and that’s a big part of what we’re trying to do at Evolved Finance is just demystify this stuff and make it less intimidating, and really turn your numbers into an asset that helps your business grow.

Adam G. Force 06:23

Yeah, so important. So a lot of good background there. Thanks, Parker. And you know, what I, one of the things we love, and just so you guys know, we do work with Evolved Finance here at Change Creator. And, you know, we love just the insights we get, because we were, I don’t know, nonchalantly, like keeping an eye on our numbers, and you know, all that kind of stuff. And we never really saw the overhead. So clearly, right? Just how much money you’re really spending on all the reoccurring subscriptions, and tech and software and all those things. And then where I like, you know, really how we can start seeing where a certain percentage of our money is being spent. So it’s like, oh, well, you got 80% of your expenses are on, you know, ads or on, you know, VHS, right. And so, it really starts giving you direction. And what they do is they give you insight to these things to read between the lines, so you can make better decisions. So Parker, just, you know, coming from your perspective of a service company, and supporting so many different entrepreneurs, who coaches, you know, online course creators and stuff. What are some of the things that, based on your experience now work with so many that you feel that some of the newer entrepreneurs are… let’s say… first five years of business, even first three? Like when do you really need to get serious about looking at your numbers? Like, what, when is that time?

Parker Stevenson 07:59

I mean, honestly, with where I’m at now, I wouldn’t even start a business business before I do the math, and I do the numbers and figure out what is this business going to look like financially? I know, that’s not necessarily everyone’s instinct, they go, okay, what’s my offer? How am I gonna market it? Where are my customers? For sure, and you need to figure all that out. But I think as business owners, and especially, I’d say people who are very visionary based and very marketing and sales based, just because you can sell somebody something, doesn’t mean that it’s a business model, a business model that functions has profit, and the only way to know that is to figure out like, what’s the math behind this business? And so I think for most online businesses, it’s not a matter of if the business model is going to work. I you know, it’s a proven model. And I think for most of us, we understand that, you know, we’ll be able to make a living from this business. But I think the sooner you can start thinking about your business, from a financial standpoint, even if it’s like, Okay, I’m getting my business started, I have $4,000 a month and expenses. And I know what those things are, I need to hold myself accountable, make sure I’m at least breaking even and making four grand a month on average, or maybe I need to figure out, Okay, I want to make eight to 10 grand, cover my 4000 expenses and start to make a profit, so I can use that to invest back into the business or to pay myself. And so I think for a lot of entrepreneurs, we just go, I’ll just see how much money I can make. And I’ll just spend whatever money I need. And it’s very much based in feelings. It’s based on emotions. It’s based on instinct, and we need all those things as good business owners, but we also need to have some sort of data, we have to have some sort of feedback, we need something that’s going to make the business tangible. So it’s not just this like nebulous things that you just look in your bank account and go we have money, I guess we’re doing okay. Like for me, I want to know from every step of the way, even if I’m just tracking my income and expenses in a spreadsheet for my first couple years, but I want to know what is actually happening with the money coming in and coming out of this business. So I can start to get feedback on, do I need to change my pricing? Do I need to be ready to make a big investment? Do I need to figure out how to replace my income so I can quit my job or whatever it may be. So I think the sooner we can start thinking about the financial side of our businesses, just I think the more we’re going to set ourselves up not to just be successful salespeople and marketers, but to be successful CEOs and business owners.

Adam G. Force 10:26

Yeah. Yeah, you know, I love that you talk about emotion. Because that’s, that is what it is, it’s like, you don’t take it as seriously in the earlier years, because you’re like, I’m trying this thing. Let’s see if it works. I’m not going to invest too much in, you know, book management, and all that kind of stuff. And I have now learned that if I was starting a business, you’re right, know the numbers, but also know, what are the benchmarks and triggers to look for? Because how do you know if you’re okay, or not? And I would say that, you guys probably could have saved me about $80,000. In the first two years of Change Creator, because you know, we were running the digital magazine, which I love, and it’s our app, right? But imagine you’re coming out of the gates, you have no proven revenue stream, yet. You’re taking on the overhead of writer’s design magazine, like, you know, creation and all this stuff. It was just I kept going and investing saying, oh, when I get Arianna Huffington, this is gonna blow up. Okay, wait, when I get Tony Robbins, we’re gonna blow up. And the marketing margin was so small, because the magazine sale is only you know, it’s like 15 to $50 subscription. Right? Yeah. And so you guys would have been like, Adam, hello, red flag over here and kind of put a stop to that. And that, guys, that’s what is so important. So you can jump on calls here, when you have the right mentors and support and who are experts in these spaces. And they’ll help identify these red flags, right? Because they can I literally when I say you could have saved me $80,000. I’m dead serious when I say that, because we spent that kind of money. And at some point, we had to look at the magazine, even if we were getting 1000 new subscribers a week that took so much marketing power, that we weren’t profitable. So it was just kind of like, Okay, what do we do with this? Right, and that was a that was a tough road. And that’s part of like doing the right things at the right time. I think that if I did it over again, I would reorder our priorities and products that we put out the door.

Parker Stevenson 12:38

And that’s where I think the power of numbers come comes in. And I feel like this has just been coming up the last couple days for me doing podcasts and workshops and stuff like that is priorities, like the word you just use. There is like if there is a word that defines entrepreneurship, it’s, do you know how to prioritize, and it’s a skill, I think you learn over time, you have to have experience in order to start to understand how to prioritize, or you need to have a mentor or someone who can help you see what the priority should be in your business. But our numbers tend to show us what we need to prioritize. Because if you look at your numbers, and you’re like, wow, we’re killing it with this offer. But we have seven other offers we’re trying to sell. Why are we even trying to sell the other offers, the numbers are showing us this is our winner, let’s double down here. Or you’re like, Oh, it’s showing us that because we have all these offers, our labor expenses are through the roof, if we don’t change the way we deliver on our offer, because our team expenses are so high, this business isn’t going to work, we need to reprioritize how we deliver our offer and how we serve our customers. Right? So the numbers are the feedback we need, right? It’s it’s the scorecard or the report card that shows Hey, good job here, or, hey, pay attention to this because this might not this might mean the business isn’t going to work unless we make some adjustments here. And I don’t think it’s reasonable to have the expectation that a business owner should just buy feel no, and things are working or not working. Like we need feedback, whether it’s from our customers giving us feedback, or team members or numbers are marketing metrics, right? Like smart business owners get the information they need so that when they’re making business decisions, they’re doing it with empowered with information, and not just instinct and feelings.

Adam G. Force 14:25

Yeah, I think that’s so important. And you know what I you know, the other thing that happens, like when you look at numbers, like you can sit there and estimate and you also can be just way off in your expectations. For example, you could be like, hey, so my audience for this market is 10 million people. I got a huge market if all I have to do is get 1%. This is what I hear all the time. I’m like, dude, you’re like you’re not getting 1%

Parker Stevenson 15:03

I’ve heard that so many times myself. But I relate to that so much.

Adam G. Force 15:06

Yes, yes, we hear it. This is one of the most common things I hear from a new entrepreneur, I know the marketplace size, and I’m gonna get it, all you got to do is get one, even if I get half a percent, it just doesn’t really play out that way. Not that you can’t get 1% Yeah, but when you’re starting a revenue stream, there’s so many other factors to actually making that possible. So you can deceive yourself and you need someone to be like, hey, let’s, let’s think about this a little differently. And I think you’re right, like, looking at the numbers first, does help you to prioritize your efforts. Because if I ever did anything, again, which I probably will do I have already had talking about another business, somebody, it’s like, we need to be profitable, like, right out of the gate with a revenue stream. Like I’m not even playing around with Well, we’ll create a year of content. And hopefully, yeah, no, no, no.

Parker Stevenson 16:00

To be fair. There are certain business models, if you’re going to start a restaurant, you got to put money up front, there’s no like, you can’t really like bootstrap a restaurant or a business model like that. Or a retail store or something like that. Because you need to buy the inventory, you need to rent out the space, you need to hire the team before you ever have a customer walk through the door. Yes, which is just really risky. But that’s how most businesses have been for the last, I don’t know, 1000 years, or however long businesses have been around for years. Usually, you’re putting money up front to get your storefront to get your team. But in the online space, the internet’s changed the way we we run businesses so much that you don’t have to put so much money upfront, you have to put a little bit, right, because you need that software, you might need you know, someone to design the website, you know, it’s a one time project or something like that. But really, the upfront costs are so low that you’re right, you can be profitable really quickly if we balanced some strategy with hustle.

Adam G. Force 17:07

Yeah, right. You come up with Yeah, exactly. And it’s a it’s a game changer, obviously, the online stuff. And I think, you know, let me know if you agree, but I think that there is such thing as healthy debt as well. Right? So in the sense of how we use debt in order to grow a business, so if you’re taking on a loan or taking on some kind of funding, that the risk is really in yourself in the sense of, are you making an educated decision? And do you know what you’re doing? Right? So do you agree that there’s healthy debt?

Parker Stevenson 17:42

There can be and I know, and I think it depends on your outlook on entrepreneurship. Like, for me, I am. I’ve taken many calculated risks throughout my life, even partnering up with Cory out of my finances, I left a cushy job at Adidas and took a massive pay cut. So I was willing to sacrifice income. But if you had said, hey, let’s start a haircut shop, and let’s take out a loan of $75,000. For me, I’d be like, Okay, I know that’s what you have to do to start this. But I don’t know if that’s the kind of risk I want to take on. But we have we’ve you know, what, we have one client in particular, I’m thinking about where they’re very much comfortable operating with debts, but it just can be a double edged, double edged sword. So it’s not for the faint of heart, but if you really are experienced, yeah. I mean, especially as you get into higher levels of entrepreneurship, that becomes a big part of the deal. Even in corporate America, I mean, corporations managed debt, big time, even if they’re sitting on boatloads of cash. So it can be it can be a big factor. But for small businesses, the less you have to deal with just the less risk you have and if you’re in a business model where you can turn a profit sooner than if you can limit the amount of debt you have to take on why wouldn’t you do that if you don’t have to, but like but you but it can definitely be I mean, debt can definitely be a tool to get you places that either would take forever to get to without it or it literally just wouldn’t happen without somebody funding

Adam G. Force 19:09

Right, and your business should become more of what people will define as a passive income model should start generating income like as a machine so if you take that debt to make that happen, and then you have the income coming in that’s that’s valuable. And isn’t there some kind of tax benefit like earned income is taxed but debt when you’re using debt is that isn’t that like not taxable or something?

Parker Stevenson 19:34

Yeah, I mean debt so because I’m not an accountant. I don’t want to quote anything. Yeah, but the debt shows up on the balance sheet and can affect how your taxes overall your debt to revenue, which can affect your your tax situation. But I mean with our clients, so few of our clients are taking out loans they might have like about you know, some balances on their credit cards from like investing last year and now their businesses are blowing up this year, and they’re starting to pay down credit card debt, but in the online space Very few of our clients have enough like low, like really classic loans or lines of credit? Where it’s a super common thing from our perspective.

Adam G. Force 20:08

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think you would see it more in like real estate businesses and stuff like that where they’re, you know, this is why guys, like, you know, Donald Trump and all those guys have like, millions and millions of dollars of debt. They’re doing that on purpose. You know, it’s like they’re playing a game with taxes and all that kind of stuff.

Parker Stevenson 20:27

Sometimes. Yeah. Sometimes it can be.

Adam G. Force 20:32

Yeah, God anyway, I don’t know why I brought him up. He just came to my brain. I hate that guy.

Parker Stevenson 20:38

But there is, but there is this like, high or low? And I think again, it all comes down to what’s your, what’s your experience level? What kind of business model Do you want to have? Because again, if I if I want to start a software company, I either have to get investors or I have to get along. Yeah. Because I have to pay someone to develop this. And if you believe in it enough, and you have some experience, but that’s where love them or hate them. I think Gary Vee, what he really nails is self awareness. And like, are you self aware enough to understand what it really takes to start a business where you need to get a ton of funding, because a lot of those businesses fail, versus our clients are self funded, or have very little expenses. And it’s just a matter of getting those clients coming in, because their overhead is so low right off the bat, that managing that risk and your opportunity, just the chances of success increased so dramatically from that standpoint, because the window, you have to try to pay back that loan is going to put tremendous pressure, and give you a lot less room for error when you’re starting a software company and a super competitive market. And it’s like, Alright, see if you can do in an app a better than the 35 other apps trying to do the same thing as yours. And obviously, there’s there’s success stories that come from that. But that’s where again, I think these online course businesses and coaching businesses and influencer businesses and stuff like that, and online service based businesses, it’s just if you don’t feel like you’re the next, Elon Musk. I think I think the vast majority of people can have success with an online business, and really thrive and replace their incomes from their job and make even more money than they would ever make from whatever job they had before that.

Adam G. Force 22:19

Yeah, yeah. And I think since you brought up Gary Vee, something else that always stuck in my brain, he was on stage once and he’s like, Listen, if you work hard, you have the willpower, you know, like you said, be self aware, be realistic, he’s like, in 10 years, you might have a nice little business, you know, he’s a cuz so many. He’s like, if one more, you know, 20, something comes up to me and says, I’m gonna be a millionaire in the next 12 months or before, I’m 30. He’s like, I just want to punch him in the face. Just thinking about it all wrong, you know, like, any, you know, I mean, everyone has their own perspective, right? I don’t know that there’s any real right or wrong, but he does give that reality check. Like these things, take time Be patient, do something you care about, you know, stuff like that. And the wrong motivations can lead to an unsustainable business. Right?

Parker Stevenson 23:10


Adam G. Force 23:11

So, so Okay, so we’re talking about, you know, managing the books and stuff. I’m just curious, too. Are there any, anything that you’ve seen with your clients that make them have better profit margins? Like, I’m curious about types of business, because, you know, we’ve done things like if I’m running a service business, and I only have like, two people on the team, or you’re doing it yourself, so you just started and you’re, you’re coaching or doing something, your overhead could be super low. So you can get two clients a month and make $5,000 a month, right. But then there’s courses, we’re growing staff like of coaches and all these things. And so I’m just curious if you notice any trends in the size of a company and like, you know, types of companies that really have good profit margins?

Parker Stevenson 24:04

Yeah, that’s a great question. So what we typically like to see for our clients who are doing like less than half a million is the margins are usually pretty high for online businesses, because like you said, if you’re selling a course, there’s no, there’s no inventory. There’s no cost to build a course. I mean, they’re kind of indirectly but it’s not like a shoe like when I was at Adidas, I was slinging golf shoes. There’s a very tangible cost to building the shoe, that then we have to price the shoe to cover the cost and make our profit. So like with courses and coaching and online services, when you don’t have these direct, like materials, costs and manufacturing costs. You’re absolutely right. If we can just get in front of the right people in the right audience is and we can make sales, you can make money and generate revenue without having to spend a lot of money on marketing. And what we saw in the past was that I’d say When I got into this industry six years ago, it was a lot of joint webinars, it was a lot of blogging, to build your email list to, you know, to build an audience to sell your offer to. And there’s still some of that, you know, around today. But building up your audience, whether you’re doing it through Instagram, or you’re doing it through SEO, or you’re doing it through podcasting, or whatever you do, the more it can be kind of, quote, unquote, free. I mean, there’s obviously a cost of time and stuff like that, in the early stages of your business, as much as you can build an organic audience without having to jump into ads right off the bat, that tends to be an advantage. And our clients that build on that is definitely a cost advantage. But then it’s getting more competitive in the online space. So we’re seeing more of our clients investing in ADS early on, and it could grow their revenue a lot faster. But really locking in your return on investment from your ads is where whether or not you’re profitable, can be tough. And so that’s where our clients were able to blend some of the advertising expenses mixed in with some of their organic traffic or mixed in with making sure they’re still consistently really promoting and communicating and cultivating relationship with their email list that they’re paying for through ads to maximize that return. That’s when we start to see profitability really get a lot better. But obviously, advertising can scale your business to a level that maybe is going to take a lot longer to do organically. So it’s always going to be this kind of like, give and take unless you got really lucky with building an audience organically really fast, which sometimes it’s like something going viral a YouTube video going viral or something along those lines, which is not something we want to bank on, then I think ultimately, what can we do in the initial stages of our business, through hustle through networking, through organic marketing means and when we have that cash flow available, and we’re generating revenue more consistently, then I think that’s when experimenting with ads and giving up a little bit of profit, there starts to make sense, because your total profit dollars will increase pretty dramatically if we can nail the advertising game.

Adam G. Force 27:05

I think that makes a lot of sense. And you know, for people that get overwhelmed, like, Oh, I gotta spend years building an organic audience, I would almost say that, yes, like, you got to start connecting with people, they got to know you exist, right. But if you could validate your product, you know that you can sell it to this audience, you could probably start testing out some of that ad spend as long as because what I what I think is really tough for people is you start running ads, but you really have no idea if anyone really is buying your product, you just think that’s how I get in front of people. And then you’re doing all your trial and error through paid advertising versus the organic that organic is a great stomping ground for testing and validating.

Parker Stevenson 27:54

Well, and there Yeah, there’s that experience you get from from the organic traffic and people kind of finding you and just getting into your right network, your right target audience that if you are killing it with launches and promotions to an organic audience, that and they really liked your offer, then that’s big. That becomes like a situation where it’s like, you know, how do we mitigate risk with with our investments? Yeah, what’s safer? investing in an unproven product and putting ads into something you’re not even sure if people want yet right? We’re doing it organically, people loving it and raving about it. And then putting the ad spend into it. Of course, you want something that’s tested? And what’s interesting, Adam is we we’ve had clients who have had multi, six figure email lists like 200-300,000 people who struggled to make as much money as someone with a 10,000 person email list.

Adam G. Force 28:54

Yeah, what a great point because people get really hung up on, you know, the size of the email list, the size of the social media following. And I think there’s value in both of those things, but the value diminishes if you don’t have relationships, like you haven’t earned their trust and you don’t have the offer that really resonates with them. So you haven’t built an audience that’s actually around this idea of that need, right? That they have. And we’ve done that to like, we had to purge our lists in the past where we would take them from 20,000 to 10,000, we’d cut the list in half, put half of them in a parking lot, and say, well, we’ll get some creative ideas to try to re engage those people. Right? And then you take the people that you do have, and you know, you still have you continue to work them. But it’s like, that happens. And you know, what I think I see a lot is people are putting a lot of time and effort into all these lead magnets, these freebies, and they don’t do things that are cohesive with their offer enough. And so they’re bringing in people just to try to get the email number up. So they’ll do anything that’s like, oh, let’s run a contest. And you get all these contests, people, which they never become buyers of your offer. We did that we done that stuff ago, we just added 5000 people in one day. Okay, great. No one ever buys anything. Yeah

Parker Stevenson 28:54

And that’s where it’s not about the size of your audience. It’s about connecting your offer with the right people and being clear with your messaging to the right people that you can build momentum off of 234 or 5000, person email lists. And as long as we’re clear about what we do, who our target audience is, and the problem we’re solving for them, the numbers just, we see it all the time, the more focused our clients are on being really targeted with their niche, their revenue grows more quickly, and their profit tends to stay healthier along the way. Yeah, it’s quality leads over the quantity of leads. And that’s where I think working back into the numbers. If you’re not thinking about your business, from a numbers standpoint, if you’re like, Okay, I just want to try to cross the six figure mark. The offers 1000 bucks, it’s 100 people divide 100 people by 12, that’s less than 10 people per month, that’s roughly 8.3 people per month, you have to sell all of a sudden, you’re chunking this down into very digestible, bite sized pieces, and you’re like, oh, okay, that’s the first step. That’s fine. You don’t have to get 1% of the market share. In that first year, let’s start with how do we get half of half of that? How do we get for, for customers our first month? And how do we work towards that eight, because then it’s just like, that becomes a very doable number. And what I learned when I was in the in the corporate world with Adidas, I worked very closely with just world class sales professionals, you know, everyone from our sales reps who are working with our really big key accounts like Dick’s Sporting Goods, all the way to the client, or the the sales reps who were managing Greengrass accounts like Pebble Beach, you know, really, really white glove clients that we treat really well. And what I learned from that was that each year, their target went up a little more whatever territory, you have sales rep, you don’t get to just sell the same amount you did last year. But what the sales managers were so good at was they would sit down with each rep in their territory and go, alright, we need to see 10% growth over last year, what’s our game plan there? Well, that means maybe we need to sell in an extra $300 per account of apparel or footwear, or we have this one big client that we think we can get more space in the shop, and they start to work backwards from what that number is. And that’s where again, when we can start to make things more digestible. And we’re not just going, Oh, I want to be a million dollar business, let’s just sell as much crap as we can. And start to be more strategic around how we’re chunking off the growth of this business and prioritizing what we need to work on, then it just starts to become this natural progression that, you know, it doesn’t feel like you’re constantly disappointed, you’re not a million dollar business yet you go, oh, wow, we hit our target this month, that fires you up to make, excuse me to hit the target again, next month, and then the month after that. So then as like I think about my six year journey, and my business partners, 10 year journey with a bowl finance, you know, I think about where we’re at now. And I’m just like, wow, we’ve come such a long way. But it wasn’t like every year I was there, I was disappointed or performance, we were always growing a little bit, learning a little more, making more progress, hitting the numbers and the targets, we’re setting ourselves from a financial standpoint, and mapping out the business model to make sure we could pay our team well, while also making sure that the business was staying profitable. And doing all that work and seeing it all come together. Now it’s like, it’s just so crazy. But it’s this gradual thing, nothing just happened like overnight. We’ve had years for a lot. We’ve had years where we grow incrementally, but that’s where that journey is so important, and set setting these goals for ourselves, these financial goals for ourselves steadily. So we’re not setting ourselves up for maybe expectations that just aren’t going to be realistic to achieve. Exactly. I think that’s good advice. So you know, anybody listening? Parker, you know, I think what you’re saying is, you can have big aspirations, but you have to actually map out what it will take to get there. And if you want to be a million dollar company, the first year might be $50,000. Right? And so it’s how do I get to that point? And what does that look like from the number of sales I need per month. And I think it’s critical that you make it digestible, like steps. And that makes all the difference in the world. So you’re not you don’t feel forced to do things that I guess get kind of out of sync with what you’re doing. You’re just you get into a flustered mindset where it’s like, you’re going to try to create 10 different products, you’re going to be all over the place and it gets really stressful. So having a plan to back I like the reverse engineering concept of like backing into, alright, you’re this quarter, the second quarter, the third quarter, the fourth quarter, what are they doing Look like to get where I want to go. Right? So really breaking that down and understanding the numbers, if you don’t know what it takes, and what the that looks like, I think, you know, it’s like the guy you mentioned, you know, here’s your sales manager, he sits down and he’s like, well, what would this look like? How do we do that? Well, maybe it’s $300 more per account, or it could look like something else. It could be a new client that we add on, right? So you kind of figure out what the options are, what it looks like, Yeah, what are their opportunities, what opportunities are in front of us that we haven’t jumped on yet? Exactly. And, and so when the one thing that a little story here, just as a lesson, I learned, I was very fortunate with my time at Adidas to get to work on some projects with the executive team. And I had no business really, I had no business working with the executive team on anything. But I was a go getter and had lots of ideas. And I came up with this idea that the company like, the company was really pumped about the Adidas golf tailor made section that golf section was really excited about, and they kind of we kind of did this contest in the company to try to pull up new ideas and innovate. And so the idea was a little bit of a bigger idea, but it was there’s a lot of potential there. And so it was an idea that was gonna be like a $10 million investment for the company, it was going to be massive. And I remember one of my mentors was like, Well, what if we like broke this down to where like, we did a test of concept, and it was only 100,000 or 500,000. Now we might be able to get the executive one of the executives to jump on this and start to test it out, we’ll find the money. And it was but it’s being young and a little inexperienced, I was like this is Adidas was $10 million. But it’s just again, if I if I was a little more mature and could have like, walked through the steps to get to the bigger idea, and would have maybe had more opportunity to be successful, I think we can kind of do the same thing within our own businesses is just really like, again, setting financial targets for ourself, these financial forecasts that are achievable, but a little bit out of our uncom or like our comfort zones. And that’s usually the sweet spot. If you feel like, that sounds doable, but it also sounds uncomfortable getting there, then you’re usually studying pretty good targets for yourself.

Adam G. Force 37:10

Yeah, that makes sense. And, you know, I heard recently like Elon Musk is like, Oh, you should have your 10 year goal. Try to do that in six months. And if you don’t hit it, see how far you get? You’ll get a lot from like a I guess that’s that’s the Elan musk perspective. He’s a very unique person.

Parker Stevenson 37:31

And you’re talking about risk factors, right? You’re talking about risk aversion. Again, there’s some entrepreneurs who are going to like they mortgage their homes, they are refinance their homes, they get money from family, just do everything max out credit cards

Adam G. Force 37:48


Parker Stevenson 37:48

and more power to you, if you’re comfortable doing that great. But most people aren’t comfortable with doing that. So it doesn’t have you don’t, it doesn’t have to be one extreme or nothing, right?

Adam G. Force 37:59

It’s not necessarily smart, either. Like I think, because think about it this way, too. You have the big goal, we set the steps right to get there. We know our numbers. Now we’re working with Evolved Finance. So we got we got our they got our backs, right. And so let’s say you’re like, I gotta get two clients a month for the first two quarters. All right, that gets me my jumpstart, just like you said, the 500,000 was a jumpstart to the 10 million. So but maybe in month two, you get four clients, and you’re like, Oh, I was able to actually get four. I can maybe accelerate my plan, I could sit down. And you should be looking at your numbers every two weeks or four weeks, right anyway and know what’s going on. And maybe you can adjust and you can get there faster. So you can always pivot along the way. So make I like what you said you kind of like, set a goal that pushes you in the right direction. And it’s a little uncomfortable, but achievable. It’s not like some crazy idea that you know, you already in the back of your mind or unconsciously sabotaging yourself like yeah, that’s never gonna happen, right? Yeah, you gotta believe in the back of your mind that Yeah, I can do this. Like I can do this. You can’t just like, like, fool yourself, you know what I mean? It makes a big difference.

Parker Stevenson 39:12

Totally makes a big difference. And I think when you have these big jumps in success, or something really clicks, yeah, great. Let’s now Let’s uplevel the way we’re running the business and start making investments, right? Like, especially if you have a business that’s already generating revenue, it’s already established, you have something that that’s functioning. It’s all about pivoting as business owners being ready to adjust. I mean, and that’s the benefit of being a small business is you can, you know, you can move on a dime if you need to, versus big corporations. It’s like moving a giant, you know, a cruise ship, where it takes, it takes it could take you an hour to turn this thing around in the other direction. So that that’s the benefit we have, but it’s always How can we balance like our flexibility In our ability to adjust to the moment with intention and strategy, and again, that’s, that’s why again, at all the inexperienced, I think entrepreneur tries to do that all from feel, and all from just a sales and marketing perspective. And we need to have the full picture of the business to be strategic. And that means not ignoring the financial side of the business as well.

Adam G. Force 40:19

It’s just so important. I know a lot of people like I literally people in the social entrepreneurship space, and we’ll wrap up here in a minute. They’ll say, Well, I don’t care about money, I’m just here to help people and all that stuff. I’m like, you know, like, I hear that I’m like, I get like this, I get where you’re coming from with that mentality. Like, they think money is like, the root of all evil kind of concept. We’ve all heard that before. And you’re gonna have a really hard time being successful as a business owner, if you if you think that way, right, that’s like

Parker Stevenson 40:52

Start a charity do if you if you’re really about helping people, start a charity, and then get a job doing something else to make your money. But most people who say that that’s not really what they want. And when, when I hear people say that my answer to that is, there’s nothing inherently wrong with making money from what you do and what you’re good at. And the reality is, if you’re not charging enough for what you do, then you’re only going to be able to help a small amount of people. Yeah, and the beautiful, the beautiful part about a business is if you are a smart business owner, you can start to hire the team, you can start to market more to where you can make an impact on even more people’s lives by focusing on making or not focusing by at least giving the attention that your business needs on the financial side. Because if the finances aren’t working, you’re not going to be able to do this for very long, because you’re not going to make enough money. And you’re not going to be able to help that many people help anybody. Because you’re you’re gonna have to go get a job. And so that’s where I think it’s just these mindset things where we find ways to try to get in to make excuses and get in front, you know, get in the way of our own success, and needing to look at maybe the parts of ourselves that we feel like, I’m not as good at this, or this is something I’m scared to have to dive into and learn. Instead of, you know, instead of going like, Okay, how can I help more people and make money along the way, it’s like, I’m just gonna sabotage myself and come up with an excuse that says money is bad, and I don’t make money, right? So that you could have your cake and eat it too, I think in that regard

Adam G. Force 42:27

Well, and they learn that as time goes by, and they’re struggling, and they’re not making money, and they realize, you know, they have these blocks. But I remember a friend of mine, I was talking to on the phone with Rachel Miller, I don’t know if you know her.

Parker Stevenson 42:40


Adam G. Force 42:41

So I connected with her a few times, we were talking and she is just such a ball of energy. I love that woman, she’s great.

Parker Stevenson 42:50

She’s so positive and full of life.

Adam G. Force 42:54

Well, she said something to me that really stood out. And she was like, Well, if you love your customers, if you love your audience, then you have to sell to them. Because that’s how we transform their lives. That is so true. And I so when people say things like money is the root of all evil, and and selling is dirty, and all that kind of stuff. That’s what I remind them of, I’m like, if you love your customers, then you’re going to sell to them. I had someone today who was like, Oh, I don’t want to go on Facebook. And I don’t want to I don’t like doing social media and all that stuff. And I was like, Well, do you want to sell your product? Do you love your business? Do you believe in your product? I’m like, then you should be so pumped that in this day and age, we have all these social media platforms where you can go and tell everybody about it, because it’s so amazing. Don’t you want to go tell everybody? She’s like, Oh, you know, you don’t think about it. And like you got to change the way you’re thinking about this, right?

Parker Stevenson 43:51

And I’ve said the same thing. And I feel the same way about our business. I never thought I mean I do all the sales calls for Evolved Finance and I do all the promotion. I could talk about this stuff all day because I see the difference we make in our clients lives and their businesses. Why wouldn’t I want to do more of that for more people

Adam G. Force 44:10

That’s it man and I you know, I love what Russell Brunson said is like guys, you can have the best offer the best product, all that stuff he goes, but if you don’t love the marketing, if that’s not something you just love doing, you’re gonna struggle. He’s like, you gotta love selling your product because you believe in the product, as I say, yeah, people just got to get their minds right. And that’s a big part of entrepreneurship. Because if you go from employee world to entrepreneur world, totally different frame of mind and how you are creating assets and cash and all that kind of stuff. It’s, it’s, um, it was a real whirlwind for me out of the gate. And, you know, we’re not a billion dollar company, as you know, so, you know, yeah, we got a long ways to go still.

Parker Stevenson 44:52

But it’s just learning a new game right like, there. There’s just rules to this game of being a small business owner. And the faster you can learn those rules, whether through experience through mentorship through coaching, the the more you’re understand you’re going to understand what you’re trying to accomplish. And the faster you’re going to get there.

Adam G. Force 45:10

That’s it, man. Well, listen, let’s tell people how they can find you, connect with you. And I know you talked about the $500,000 and the million dollar clients, but I think you guys are open to people who are smaller clients as well. So tell us a little bit about who you typically work with, and how they can connect with you guys.

Parker Stevenson 45:30

Yeah, so evolvedfinance.com is where you can if you’re interested in learning more about what we do, I have a podcast there as well, where I just do 15-20 minute kind of lessons. It’s like one giant course where I just talk for 15 to 20 minutes about a lot of the stuff we’re talking about here. We also have a workshop on there, where it’s called Know your Numbers Now. We give away a free budget for your business and a free budget for your personal life as an entrepreneur. But otherwise, yeah, if you go to our website, you’ll see we work with only online businesses. So if you’re selling again, courses, coaching, membership sites, influencers, online service based businesses, and if you’re making $100,000 or more a year and you’re operating in US dollars, that will likely be a good fit to work together.

Adam G. Force 46:20

Okay, and we’ll have this information in the show notes and stuff like that. For you guys as you check it out. So, Parker, thank you for your time. We definitely went a little over so I appreciate you hanging in there.

Parker Stevenson 46:32

No, it’s because we have too much fun talking to each other man.

Adam G. Force 46:34

I love talking man. There’s so much to talk about. I can go on and on.

Parker Stevenson 46:39

You and me both

Adam G. Force 46:41

Alright, well listen, I will catch up with you soon. Thank you for being here and we’ll talk later.

Parker Stevenson 46:47

All right, thank you take care.

Adam G. Force 46:51

Thanks for tuning into the Change Creator podcast. Visit us at Change creator.com forward slash go big to get access to free downloads and other great resources that will drive your business forward.

Adam And Amy – Why So Many Entrepreneurs Start on a High and Later Crash And Burn

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Why do so many entrepreneurs start off on a high and later crash and burn? Are you losing yourself in your business? It’s not as obvious as you think… let us explain.

This was originally a Facebook Live by Change Creator cofounders, Adam and Amy!

For more be sure to follow us on Facebook.

Want to learn how to differentiate and create a meaningful brand that converts sales? Join this free masterclass at changecreator.com/gobig

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Transcription of Interview

(Transcribed by Otter.ai, there may be errors)

Adam G. Force 00:03

Welcome to the Change Creator podcast where entrepreneurs come to learn how to live their truth, get rich and make a massive difference in the world. I’m your host, Adam Force co founder at Change Creator and co creator of the captivate method. Each week, we talk to experts about leadership, digital marketing and sales strategies that you can implement in your business and life to go big, visit us at Change creator.com forward slash go big to grab awesome resources that will help drive your business forward. Hey, what’s going on everybody? Welcome back to the Change Creator podcast, hope you all are doing well. And your week is off to a good start. We have a really great conversation that I wanted to share today. And that is a conversation about, you know why so many entrepreneurs start off on a high, but crash and burn leader. It’s a topic that’s come up quite a bit in with people that we’ve been talking to, and things that we’re seeing through some of the, you know, people in our program captivate and stuff like that. So it’s a really important topic, and we want to see people succeed, we want to help just kind of analyze this. So this is just a conversation that Amy and I had. So Amy being a co founder here at Change Creator that we talked about on Facebook, actually, we did a Facebook Live. So I’m sharing another Facebook Live clip, because I think it is an important conversation. And we’ve kind of just scratched the surface here and really kind of start digging into it. So I think it’s very valuable just to wrap your head around some of the ideas that we share. So we want to make sure you’re kind of getting what you need in order to stick with what you’re doing, make sure you don’t crash and burn, and that you’re making progress with your business. So hopefully, this conversation will give you a little bit of that inspiration and insight. If you missed the last episode, it was with Rene Garcia. We love talking to people who are really into the mindset game, right? Not just about being mentally tough, and you know, discipline, but how to think about becoming the best version of yourself. And not necessarily just the best version of yourself, right? We don’t, you know, we’re not trying to get to like Foo Foo here. But the idea is, as we grow as entrepreneurs, we need to become the next version of ourselves in order to be that entrepreneur, with our business, you know, we cannot remain the same person because that person is not the entrepreneur with that level of success, you have to very much lean in and become that person. So how do we break through some of our limiting beliefs and things that hold us back? So we’re going to talk about that. And that’s that was the conversation with Rene Garcia. And we like bringing people like her onto the show to help kind of dig into the mindset game, because it’s so important. So if you missed it, go back and check that one out. I think you’re gonna enjoy it. If you guys aren’t following us on Facebook, make sure you catch us there. Lots of just, you know, inspirational insights, things to like, keep you motivated, good group of people there social entrepreneurs trying to make a difference in the world. And if you want to take it a step further, where we kind of get into some more insights around the online presence, you know, how do we build trust? How do we connect our story and design and really make our brand stand out online and drive more conversions, right, those leads and sales. That’s a deeper conversation we get into in the Facebook group. So if you want to join be a Change Creator, that is our Facebook group, and you can find that right from our page. Alright, guys, I’m gonna dive right into this conversation so you can get started. Hope you guys are having an amazing day today. Stick with it. And let’s kick this thing off. Okay, show me the heat. What’s going on everybody? Adam force here co founder at Change Creator, co creator of the captivate method with my partner, Amy here.

Amy Aitman 04:12


Adam G. Force 04:15

You know, we’ve been talking and we want to talk about one important reason so many entrepreneurs start off on a high right like, it’s like sugar and getting a high but then later, you quickly crash and you burn. We see this happening a lot. So we wanted to just talk through a couple important things that kind of play into it. But before we dive into all that stuff, just to let us know you’re there. If you guys are catching this on a replay, hit replay in the comments. If you have questions during this or after. Go ahead fire those questions off, we will get back to you. No problem there. So let’s dive into this because it’s such an important topic. I mean, more than ever. People have this massive Access to become an entrepreneur, which is exciting. We typically will feel discontent in our life at some point, right? There’s this, this yearning for this raw life more meaning more in line with who we actually are, right? And when we get more in line, we feel good. When we wake up every day, we’re doing something that we actually give a crap about. Yeah. Right. And so that’s a great first step, because we’ve worked with so many people, you know, in our program, and they are like, Hey, I made this decision. And I made this bold move. And they’re, they’re doing something right. So they take that first step, which is the hardest, most people can’t get past the first step, which is yes, action, and say, screw it, I’m starting my own business, I’m doing it. I want that money. I want that, like, you know, access to my life that I live my own way. But what happens quickly after that high as you get this ambition, and you get into what’s what is important to you. But then, you know, we’re like an artisan, we are an intellectual with certain on intellectual property that we want to share and teach people whatever it might be. But over time, we realize, wow, how do I actually start getting traction? How do I, you know, you might get a sale here, no sale there. Because we’re passionate, you know, we have good intentions, we, we get some word of mouth, some referrals from friends and family, which is always a great start, right? You validate people are interested, they’ll put money down. But there’s certain things that happen that sooner or later you you realize, okay, now I’m stuck, though. It’s inconsistent. I’m not getting enough sales. How do I, how do people actually get to six figures a month? Like, where does that come from? Right. Mm hmm. And so over time, we start doing things that take us away from our original intentions and who we are because we get panicked, right, Amy? Yeah, thinking about what and when that leads to this, these bad decisions? So I’ll let Amy tell. I know, she has a little bit of a story just to kind of demonstrate like what we’re talking about here.

Amy Aitman 07:08

I mean, yeah. So when I first started my own business, I had a lot of reasons to start a business one was, nobody would hire me. So I literally wanted that freedom of money. I’m still not very hireable. Right, Adam? I’m not a very good employee. But like many of you, I started my business for reasons like I wanted freedom, I wanted to have more time and money. And being able to be with my family, I had a little a little baby at home. And I wanted for him to look at me and say my mom is doing something with her life. And I had these really core values. And I worked really, really hard. And I got to a place in business where Yes, my company was making six figures, I was like, rocking and rolling, but I was taking on so much. And so yes, I was making more money. But that freedom that I had originally wanted, that time with my son that I really originally wanted was missing. And a lot of us entrepreneurs are really sold this lie of this, like hustle lie that really takes us away from who we are and our authentic reasons to be in business like autumn started Change Creator for a specific reason to to the Alliance’s values, and most of us are most of the people that we work with, and the captivate method they have, they have this big vision, this, these gifts that they’re given that nobody else in this world can do. And that’s why they’re there. But when we’re talking about this point, when we’re getting to this disconnect point, it’s like Adam said, we started off so excited, we started off like so good, we’re starting to get sales, and we hit this point where it’s like, our business isn’t failing. In fact, it could be doing good in some areas, but our whole our life, and what we looked at, and what we want from our business is failing on a bigger level. So we lose ourselves in our business. And we’re told the lies of like hustle. And if you work hard, work harder on your business, you will grow. But these are really myths that I want to dispel. So there’s three ways that we can lose ourselves in our business. And I can tell you personally, I lost myself and my business all three. So time, energy and money. And a lot of us think, you know, it’s like, it’s good to lose time, it’s good to lose to, you know, if we’re going to make more money, or it’s good to lose money if it’s going to give us back time. But that’s really not the core of what we started this business and we start to lose ourselves and start to make, you know, decisions in our business and our marketing and our life that we wouldn’t normally make, to sacrifice to get to that next level. And we think that’s what we have to do.

Adam G. Force 09:45

But you adapt, you adapt yourself to what you think needs to happen, you know, maybe you’re not a marketer or a salesperson and you’re struggling to get that stuff you don’t know online system. So all of a sudden you’re listening to all these people, doing your research and you got it figured out. And you start saying, Well, if that’s what I got to do, it’s not really what I would probably do. But if that’s what’s working, I’m going to go ahead and I’m going to do that too. Yeah, copy what they do. Now copying people is, is is not good. Because you’re getting a surface level. Look, you don’t know really what’s going on under the hood, you don’t really know how successful it is how much something costs, you know, we interviewed a company one time and we talked to the founder. And he’s like, yeah, we made $30 million this past year. And I was like, holy crap. And he’s like, yeah, we also spent $30 million. I was like, You don’t know that. Right? You don’t know that. So we we start trying this is the key thing is we adapt ourselves to what we think people want. And that is a huge mistake. We adapt our stories, our narratives, and our actions that we take to do things that we think people want, you know, and this could this leads to that discontent coming back into your life. Because now when things aren’t working, you’re doing things that you probably normally wouldn’t have done. And you’re trying a million different things, which you know, trying new things is great, but it’s it’s easy to spend a lot of time doing the wrong thing. So sure, go, hustle, you want to work 100 hours a week, you want to grind as they say, Hey, I can appreciate that hard work is can pay off. But it also can go on for years and years years without pay off if you’re doing the wrong stuff. Because all you’re doing is adapting you’re you start to lose your soulYeah. And and it’s a hard thing to try to like express in a conversation like this until you start feeling that pain.

Amy Aitman 11:38

Yeah. That’s a good question. Like, how do you know that you’re at this point in your life? So something that causes us to start thinking about this as we asked a group question in our Facebook group? What don’t you like about marketing? You know, very simple question. Right. And we saw a lot of these answers about like storytelling seems inauthentic, marketing seems inauthentic. I keep getting I keep seeing all of these really like salesy things. And we said, why is that, because we all know that the universe shows you the things that are internal, the stories that we’re telling ourselves, that’s how we are expressing ourselves, in our business, and in our world. And that’s what actually starts to show up in our Facebook streams. It’s not by chance, what we’ve seen in the world around us is not by chance. So if you are always feeling like to get to the next stage of your business, this is how you know that you’re in this spot. This painful spot is like you’re seeing things that just don’t feel right to you. You’re seeing ads that don’t feel right, you’re seeing story, you’ve seen an authentic feeling, selling seems inauthentic. If that’s you, I want you to leave a comment on this live and say yes, I’m starting to feel like there’s no good marketing, there’s no good way to sell, there’s no good way to serve. And it’s like it’s like a disconnect and a discontent with your business.

Adam G. Force 13:00

That’s how you know that you’re there. And there’s more to that actually, I want to add, which is when you think like that. Marketing sucks marketing benteke these guys are all scammers. We get comments on our Facebook ads. This guy’s a scammer, and I’m like, ever from that, right? But this is the mentality. And when you have that mentality, guess what, you’re never going to be good at marketing and sales ever. Because you’re you are you are holding yourself back with that little thief. And you’re screwed, man. Because that’s like saying, you know, I hate black jelly beans. Well, guess what, I’m never effing eating black jelly beans, dude, I’m never gonna have them. Marketing, you’re not going to get in to become a great marketer. And you know, what we teach and what people uncover in the captivate method is, you know, we, we go through this really elaborate process around storytelling for a very specific reason, because we rely on people to their marketing, because marketing doesn’t take us away from what we do best. It actually brings us closer when it’s done. And it feels good. Because you have to it. It’s a major perspective shift. And it’s hard to like Express. But when you become when it becomes part of who you are. And now it’s like the artists and you are the Craftsman or whatever it is, this person goes after now, you are sharing what you love in a way that aligns to who you are, and people understand you and you get them on board. But these misconceptions, and these feelings of like disdain towards marketing. We know why we know why you feel that way. Right? We even teach it in inside of our own program of the history and the evolution of marketing and what happened. Why do people feel that way? Was I surprised that the comments we saw Nope, no, I wasn’t surprised at all. Actually, it was what I expected to see. But I also will tell you that most people who who say those things will not Never be good marketers, I can almost guarantee it.

Amy Aitman 15:02

And they will never grow their business. And they will do less of what they love, and what makes them so special and go back to those values in their business because of this belief, they’re just going to keep, you know, bringing that into their life. And imagine how your clients feel how your customers feel when you’re not settled. And like, we there’s a reason why storytelling is what we teach, because there’s stories that you tell yourself and their stories that you tell others. And we dig so deep, we have we dig so deep with our authenticity, interviews, to really dig into your core values. Why start this business? So many entrepreneurs kind of missed a step. Or they did this in the beginning, when they first started, I find like some of them really did this in the beginning, especially social entrepreneurs. But then you go back, you go back, and you get to this point where you’re like, I really need to grow. And again, you’re gonna, like get lose yourself with time, energy money. And you’ve skipped this step again, and this is such an important powerful thing for your business. And marketing should be something that brings you joy brings you pleasure, brings you closer to who you can help.

Adam G. Force 16:08

Yeah, no, it’s true. It’s easy to lose yourself. Because, you know, you come in with like a fireball, like we said, you’re high as a kite ready to go get a couple sales you’re cooking. But then it gets to a point where you got to level up. And it’s easy to start going in the wrong directions. There’s so many different decisions, so many different variables, things that work that don’t work all this stuff. Yeah, and you start listening to all these people, and you start trying to adapt who you are, in order to make sure you’re getting these sales, it gets messy. And we’re not saying this, you know, just off the cuff here. This is what we’ve seen for many, many years working with so many different people like this is we’ve experienced it ourselves. See the repeat pattern. And this was a hard lesson for us to learn over the years. You know, I did it. In the first year of Change Creator, no, we spent well over $30,000 in the first year, which is not a lot now.

Amy Aitman 17:02

It was a lot then.

Adam G. Force 17:02

I mean, it’s like that meant everything at the time, that was most of the savings account that I had personally put it all in. And it was me running around like a chicken with my head cut off. So and I was director of strategic marketing at webmd. I know marketing, but I also didn’t have a eight figure brand name behind me. And I didn’t have a million dollar budget to go and do all this stuff that I knew we had to do, right. And all the data and technology. So here you get on grassroots. And it’s like, Okay, this is a very different dynamic. And you got to think of marketing strategies for yourself, not for someone else. And you start going all over the place, like I just want to focus on my my craft, my passion, all those things. But sooner or later, you’ve got to become a marketer. Marketing is storytelling, and marketing. Marketing is business and storytelling is marketing. Right. So like, we always say that because it’s so true. And it’s so important to grasp.

Amy Aitman 17:59

Definitely, and it becomes fun and joyful.

Adam G. Force 18:03

It should be it should be fun, and it should be joy. So we want it to just hang

Amy Aitman 18:08

We talk about that all the time, don’t we Adam, like if we are starting to feel the drudgery of our to do list and all the things that we think we have to do, and all the outside influences that we think we have to listen to, we catch ourselves and we’re like, are we having fun? Is this fun? Is it are we bringing God into it is that the energy that we have, because that’s what our if we know that it feels good, if it aligns our values, we’re having fun, we’re having a good time, we’re not dreading getting up the next day. We’re not dreading our Change Creator to do lists.

Adam G. Force 18:38

I mean, the major takeaway, honestly, is really to understand that we burn out over time because we lose ourselves in our businesses, trying to adapt who we are and what we think we should be doing, based on what others are doing and finding success, we scramble and that panic, because you know, we’re not making enough money or whatever it is, it leads to a lot of bad decision making. So we want to reconnect with our inside world and stop being so focused on what’s going on around us and the outside world because it’s just that reflection, what what’s happening around you is based on I don’t want to get to like Fufu here, right, but like, fortunately, this is just the truth of the matter. And you’re going to hear if you go into any major mastermind, you know, we’re in a $20,000 mastermind. It’s all about this stuff. Okay. These are the conversations that we have. You know, as entrepreneurs, we all face the same challenges, but how we manage ourselves how we address problems. This is what’s going to make the difference. You know, I was listening to Dan Henry the other day and he’s like, he got invited to talk on funnel hacking live for Russell Brunson, which is a frickin sick event that Russell puts on, you know, we interviewed Russell twice. And he’s a super cool guy. Dan’s like, dude, I reached out to so and so he teaches how to be a great speaker on stage. He’s like I was already a good speaker, but I wanted to really level Boom, you know, he drops 10 grand to get in there we were at our mastermind guy comes in and talk about the money mindset 40 people in the room and guess what he had a $5,000 offer for his program. And 50% of the people in the room right there on their iPhones dropped that cash to become part of program. What I’m what the point I’m making is that people will invest in themselves. And they they keep following their own truth. And they believe in these things so much that they don’t even think about that stuff anymore. And they get on board with people that the right people that can help them right.

Amy Aitman 20:33

Yeah, so I have an assignment for you guys. Do this, it’s really, it’s gonna be fun. I want you to spend the next few days and I want you to like go through your Facebook feed, I want you to jot down how the ads are making you feel how the things around you are making you feel and how your business is making you feel. And I want you to look at it and say, am I does this feel salesy to me? Does this feel wrong to me, does this does my like Facebook ad or my facebook group or my offer or my does it feel like doesn’t really align to what I’m doing, I want you guys to go through that. I want you to see what you’re attracting in your Facebook feed what you’re attracting on so on your searches, and literally how it makes you feel. And if it is not aligned to your to who you are, then you know that you’ve lost yourself and your business on some level on some way. You know, for example, one of our students came to us and he really wanted to get to that next level in his business. And he hired a marketing team. And he lost himself in that because he didn’t even know what they were doing. It was any $1500 a month. And he told us firsthand, I think they were using bots. And that didn’t align to what I want. And this is what we’re talking to worse. So the first step is I want you to take this time I want you to like look at what you’re attracting, look at your feed, look at how marketing around you and sales around you is making you feel. And then the next step is like how is that changing your decisions that you’re making? In your business today? Yes, and then come to us and we’ll help you out. To get back to yourself, to really get back to who you are

Adam G. Force 22:07

The mroe we get alligned with ourselves, and and that becomes the business. I’m telling you, the happier you will be. Alright guys, we’re gonna wrap it up. Hopefully, it was just a fun conversation, some food for thought. I hope you got something out of that drop questions in the comments. If you have questions. We’re happy to answer the questions. That’s what we are here for. And listen, let’s put the let’s put in the business impact business blueprint. Yeah, it’s a couple things we can share. So let’s put the impact business blueprint. This will help I know what it’s like to be kind of stressed. And we don’t want to get super stressed and start making bad decisions. So this will help kind of

Amy Aitman 22:46

Allign you

Adam G. Force 22:46

Where you’re putting some time. So that’s free, you can download it, check it out.

Amy Aitman 22:50

We just think even if you’ve been in business for a while that you can realign yourself. And that’s what we’re talking about. It’s that you know, finding yourself realigning yourself to your business. And now we’re here to help.

Adam G. Force 23:01

It’s true. I mean, listen, my last comment here is this is not just about business. This is about your life. This is about everything going on around you is a stimulus, right. And we are constantly told how to do things, how to live our lives, how to create the future, you want family, getting married, buying a house, everything. We focus on those things, the more we focus only on that outside stuff and make decisions based on it, the less we focus on the inside stuff. We’re going to find that discontent again, we’re starting ourselves and we’re going to be unhappy. So again, I always say to people, like listen to what your inner self is saying and get some insights there. We have to have that baked into our lives anyway. All right, guys, let’s wrap this up. We will catch you on the next class. Bye guys. Thanks for tuning into the Change Creator podcast visit us at Change creator.com forward slash go big to get access to free downloads and other great resources that will drive your business forward.

Adam And Danielle: 3 BIG Things That Exponentially Drive Sales Online Today

Subscribe to this show on Spotify  |  iTunes  |  Stitcher  |  Soundcloud

Everyone wants quick wins and big success. But what steps can we take to exponentially drive more sales? Adam and Danielle, co-creators of Captivate, discuss 3 critical steps you can take that all work together to compound your results and create happier customers.

About Adam and Danielle:

Adam Force is a burnout survivor and an activist at heart. After working at WebMD for 10 years as the Director of Strategic Marketing, he started a second business – Change Creator.

Change Creator is an educational media platform for social entrepreneurs that helps change the status quo through its courses and services. They offer courses like – Captivate, a podcast with over 200 expert interviews, and a premier digital magazine (with 30 editions reaching 135 countries).

Danielle Sutton is the Founder of The Sedge. She’s passionate about supporting those who are enterprising to make the world a better place.

With an undergrad in business, specialization in social entrepreneurship, participation in a world-class accelerator, and consulting with Acumen, she’s excited to work with you and share her expertise to help you reach your impactful destination — all without missing the opportunity to revel in the journey along the way​.

Join our new masterclass to learn how to create your most authentic brand story and powerful online presence – changecreator.com/gobig

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Transcription of Interview

(Transcribed by Otter.ai, there may be errors)

Adam G. Force 00:03

Welcome to the Change Creator podcast where entrepreneurs come to learn how to live their truth, get rich and make a massive difference in the world. I’m your host, Adam forest co founder, Change Creator and co creator of the captivate method. Each week, we talk to experts about leadership, digital marketing and sales strategies that you can implement in your business and life to go big, visit us at Change creator.com forward slash go big to grab awesome resources that will help drive your business forward. Hey, what’s going on everybody? Welcome back to the Change Creator podcast show. This is your host, Adam force. excited about today’s conversation, hope everybody’s having a great week, by the way. This conversation today was actually recorded on Facebook Live just this past this past last week. And it’s a really important conversation between myself and Danielle, and I wanted to share it here on the podcast, so that you guys didn’t miss it. And we’re gonna be talking about three really important factors that will help exponentially increase your sales in the end, right. And there’s a lot of interesting statistics around this as well. So not stuff we’re just making up. So we’re gonna, we’re gonna talk through it. And it ties into how we’re building trust with our marketing strategies, and being genuine with our company. So we’re gonna walk through three really important things that you need to consider when it comes to growing the business and earning trust with customers. Okay, if you missed our last episode, it was with Rene Garcia, and we talked about becoming the best version of yourself as an entrepreneur. So she is a transformational coach, she is somebody that helps with the money mindsets, and kind of breaking down those unconscious, limiting beliefs and things like that. So we can really step into the role we need to step into, because we can’t become a six figure entrepreneur or seven figure entrepreneur, or somebody that’s changing the lives of, you know, a lot of people if we don’t become that person, right, and so we have to kind of get out of our own way. And she’s really good at helping people with that. And so it’s a really powerful conversation. So if you missed it, definitely go back and check it out. It’s with Rene Garcia. Alright guys, not too many other updates at this point, we did. We always have fresh content going out on Change Creator calm, it’s also that content from Change Creator calm is flowing into the Change Creator app at this point. So any articles that are on the site will be flowing into the app, the app has a library of over 30 Premium magazines that are there with tons of insights, strategies, and inspiration from the top entrepreneur entrepreneurs around the social entrepreneurship space. Okay, lots of good insights there. So it’s only $1 a month to get access to the app. It’s just something that’s a really great handy tool on your phone for quick access to a lot of great content. Alright, guys, we’re gonna dive into this conversation between myself and Danielle and let’s kick it off. Okay, show me the heat. What’s up everybody, excited to be here with my partner, Danielle, we’re going to be talking about three big things that exponentially drive sales online today, and what you need to know about them, this is something near and dear to our hearts here at Change Creator because there’s so much changing right around the marketplace and online business since we reached the year 2000. And you know, the late 90s. Till now, as we got into the online digital space, there’s been a real hindrance on trust everything from before that too. But once we get into clickbait, and everything, there’s just been a lot of things that create red flags for people, interruption, ads, and all those types of things. So trust is becoming more and more important than ever today. And there is really no black and white solution to to solve for IT and business online. But there are steps that we can take that will help. So that’s what Danielle and I want to talk about today is three proven steps that you can take these are backed by all kinds of evidence. And there’s different areas of your business that we’re going to cover that have to all work together, right. So if you’re catching this as a replay, just put a replay in the comments, we’d appreciate that. And we’ll dive into this conversation on these three things. So I’m just gonna highlight Danielle real quick the three things The first thing actually I don’t know if we want to expose all three are gonna just go in order. But the first thing is brand storytelling, right? This is how we create an emotional connection. And this is what we call, Danielle right, is the core story for people and it’s grounded usually in the founder right of the business. This, why the business started, what it’s all about what their beliefs are, and things like that. And Daniel, I think you said it really good before, when you said that the core story creates the synergy. And it actually drives your business in all areas so that they become cohesive.

Danielle Sutton 05:19

Yeah, absolutely. Because we’re talking about how your brand story can help create trust, especially online, but in any brick and mortar business as well. But the idea of this consistency or synergy, think of when you meet somebody, for the first time, maybe at a party or something, and maybe they give you a good first impression, maybe they’re kind of cute, and you’re like, oh, it’ll be interesting to talk to them more. And you maybe you have a few touch points with them over the course of the night and you hear them, you know, talk about their job or talk about their family, or, you know, what they their hobbies. And, and everybody has had this moment where you’re talking to someone and thinking like, something doesn’t quite add up here, or like your spidey sense goes up, and you’re not quite sure what the red flag is, but you’re a little bit, maybe have your guard up a little bit. And that’s one example of when things are not consistent, or like something just doesn’t quite feel right. And that feeling translates into your experience or a customer’s experience with a brand or with a company, or even with a founder. So the power of kind of what Adam mentioned, your core story, when you know, authentically, you know, your purpose and your why and you’re translating that across all touchpoints in your business, it’s automatically going to be more consistent, because it’s true. And it’s very close to the values that drive your decisions and drive, how you produce your product and how you choose to market it with ethics in mind, rather than, you know, poor marketing practices. And all of these things add up into a feeling of trust. Right. So that’s why brand storytelling is something that we focus on as a whole in captivate as well.

Adam G. Force 07:13

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, and I think a lot of entrepreneurs today as the idea of social entrepreneurship is kind of growing over the years, you know, it’s in all these universities now. And this is, you know, this is who we love to work with, as well, because we want to change the world by changing the way we do business, right. And when we think about business, we all are, as human beings, we come from a good place. Nobody wants to see the rain forests get wiped out. Nobody wants to see all these, you know, oil spills, bad things, whatever’s going on that bothers you for bad business around the world. We want to do good things. And we’re not just money hungry people. So when we can start digging into those parts of who we are, and be very genuine about it, all the decision making from our business comes from that really genuine place, like you’re saying, and that threads throughout the business. So now when we get into the next two things we want to talk about the next one being design, all of a sudden, the that story is not just something on your bow page. It’s the North Star, if you will, for the decision making on the design and everything else that goes on in your business with the marketing. So the whole ecosystem is is actually affected by that story. Right? So it’s not, I think there’s some misconceptions out there about what a brand story is really all about, or what sales stories are for. They’re not just a simple thing you say. So storytelling is visual, and verbal, right. So I wanted to make a point about that. And then I think we can dive into the next area of the business that’s really important for trust, which is design. Anything else on your end, Danielle from brand storytelling?

Danielle Sutton 08:52

No, I think you covered it. And it segues nicely into design, because one thing you mentioned about when we’re talking about making first impressions and how this is connected to your core story as a brand, and is that you want the feeling of your visual design to speak to, you know, the personality of the business or you as a founder if you’re very tired or wanting the same. And, and it needs to make sense, like does the visual story tell, like match the spoken story? Like you said, Adam, and does it give that sense? Does it match the emotions? Again, we’re talking about consistency. Does the design match what you say you believe in and the type of you know, values that you live and embody in your business?

Adam G. Force 09:43

Yeah, yeah. And that kind of goes into the point about synergy that you made too, because it’s like, if something’s not making sense, you’re hearing all this great stuff you do and then it’s like something feels off. Right. You know, Neil Patel had a great stat that he outlined from usability.gov and it’s Having a credible I’m going to read this here, having a credible looking website that is well designed, was given a rating of four out of five, in the relative importance scale in a study by usability.gov. And that translated into how people rated that people rated the design of a website as the most important trust factor, because it enhanced the credibility of the company, and therefore made them more likely to become a customer. And I think it’s fair to say that you probably have heard this idea, Danielle, micro script. This idea that first impressions matter. Have you ever heard your parents or somebody say that first impressions matter? You going out for that job interview today, right first job out of college or something, if you haven’t been an entrepreneur your whole life, and they’re gonna say, first impressions matter, go in and meet somebody important at that conference, first impressions matter. And it starts with people subconsciously, kind of analyzing you as a design. So how are you dressed? How do you look how to carry yourself? Not much different than when they go to your website? As soon as someone learns about your business? And they’re interested? What are they gonna do? Google you? Let’s see what they’re all about. Are they professional? Do they have something of interest? And the first impression, whether they consciously will say it or not? subconsciously? They’re thinking, is this someone I want to do business with? Or not? within like, three seconds? Am I in the right place? Right? And that design, I’m a designer, I love design, I love branding, I love all that stuff. And I think it’s really important in business. And I would never design a magazine or website or anything without understanding the brand story or core story that we’ve been talking about. Because that is where the inspiration comes from, and tells you what that thing should look like. Right, Dan?

Danielle Sutton 11:56

Yeah, absolutely. And I like your point that somebody who lands on your website, they’re asking themselves in the split second, when they land, am I in the right place? is this from? Is this person or company or brand aligned with? Where I see myself? And how I wish to go forward? Where am I trying to go? Will this website help me do that, and if they see any flags that kind of point in a different direction, immediately, they’re going to bounce and being a nerd on analytics and all things. website. Amy are they’re the CO creator of a co founder of Change Creator and working on captivate with us, she has, you know, definitely has her brain in the analytics a lot. And as you know, bounce rates are a real thing. And it can dramatically change how well you are magnetizing the right people and not just having them come to your website the first time, but what is the next step for them? does everything connects so that they feel comfortable to take that next step with you? Because you’re not at a coffee shop? You can say like, Hey, can I buy you a coffee and learn more about what you mean? No, you have to make that impression, without you on the website, physically, through the design through the story, and give people confidence that they are in the right place. It’s worthwhile to take the next step with you like we talked about that too. And an exchange of value someone on your website, do they want to join your email list? Not if it’s not worth it? No way they’re there. It’s super important.

Adam G. Force 13:39

Exactly. It is. And, you know, as far as design goes, there’s an interesting definition of something that was captured by I think it was Nielsen Norman groups, and they do lots of data and all those surveys and stuff. And so it’s called the aesthetic usability effect. And the definition of that is, it refers to a user’s tendency to perceive attractive products as more usable. So people tend to believe that what that things that look better will work better, even if they actually don’t. Now this goes right now, we’ve been doing this little comparison of human beings, right, talking to somebody or sitting at the coffee shop, to the website, how they look, first impressions, all that kind of stuff. And this is no different. So if you know, I think it’s Robert Cialdini, he wrote that book, the psychology of influence, right, pretty famous book, if you haven’t read it probably should. You know, and he talks about this one area where whether people like it or not, subconsciously they have found that when someone is good looking, right, how shallow does this get, I’m telling you, but when someone’s good looking, they trust that person more, and they believe that they are more successful just because of that immediate impression of how they look. This is not far off. From what happens in the digital world now, and it goes with products, websites and your business, you know, all that stuff, they’re gonna assess you. And the first barrier is really connecting with them on that brand story, then the design making sense, right? Here I am, does this make sense? This is quality. And I love the saying that how you do anything, is how you do everything. So think about that for a second, because they’re gonna say, if your website looks like crap, and everything else is poorly designed, what does that mean for your product? Then? Why would especially when you’re getting into high ticket offers, how Why would you spend that money, you’re going to have to work a lot harder. Now, that leads us into a segue into the next thing, which is the user experience, which is also known as ux, right? So all of a sudden, let’s say you connect with them, they land on your site, they Google you, right, they learn and they go to you, they see part of your brand story is that it’s going to be that headline expression, what do you about what makes you different? And are they in the right place, then they’re going to notice your design? Do they feel like you have quality design that makes sense for them? If you get past those barriers of trust, now, they may be buy your product, right? But the trust development process doesn’t stop there. Just because you got the business, right. We have revenue channels that are about renewals, and we have customer loyalty that we want to keep on that’s why we have loyalty programs and all that kind of stuff. But what people really want there is something that is cohesive in the sense of does this company know me? Are they taking steps to take care of me and put care into what they do? And make my experience the best it can be? So that continues the trust process there. What do you think about that?

Danielle Sutton 16:46

Yeah, definitely. And it’s almost it makes me think of, the longer the relationship is, and as us relationship in the way we do with captivate, which is that encompasses, you know, somebody being on your website and choosing to join your email list and the stories that you exchange digitally. But it’s less likely to be a fluke, when it’s longer, and it’s still consistent, and they still get you and they’re still kind of serving, you know, the next piece of information or piece of value that’s, that’s useful for you as a potential customer or as a customer. And just every touchpoint reinforces you closer to a trusting relationship, like I can trust this brand even more, or it takes me further away. So it’s almost like two steps forward, one step back, depending how each touch point goes. And of course, you would like to build a stronger, more trusting experience over time. But it can go either direction. So that’s why it’s not a one and done thing like oh, my and I bet you have experienced this where you go to a website, and it is flashy, and it does sound great. And the quality looks pretty good. But then there’s you know, a broken landing page, or they send you an email with the wrong name in the header or, you know, something later on in your experience makes you feel like Oh, actually, maybe that was just a fluke, the first time like, it’s not as good as I thought. So first impressions count. But what continues in the long run is, you know, that consistency and stand with them on the path of supporting whatever, again, I’m here as a customer, here’s where I want to go, I’m choosing to go with you. The quote, the better you do at helping me get there, the better we’re going to enjoy.

Adam G. Force 18:38

Right. Deliver on your promise. Deliver on your promise. Exactly. Deliver on your promises. Because that’s that’s the other thing is like if you make a promise, which is what your offer is all about, and you don’t deliver, you lose trust immediately. Right. So, you know, you might have some hiccups, like Daniel mentioned, and I have seen research that will say, people will forgive you to an extent, if the design is really good. And you’re like, all right, yeah, whenever these things, you know, people move quick today online. But if your product to start, you know, it’s falling apart, it’s not delivering on its quality, not getting the result. Your going to lose that trust in the long run.

Danielle Sutton 19:16

And it erodes a lot faster than it builds, which you know…

Adam G. Force 19:21

Exactly, exactly. Now, there was some other thing too, that I want to share, because it’s really important for you guys. When you start adding these pieces together, there was a book by James query this atomic habits, and he gave this example about this cycling coach who made one 1% incremental changes to many, many parts of their process as a team. And within like five years, they were like the top of the world. And so, you know, it’s all these little tweaks that add up right and empower your business to make exponentially larger number of sales right? And so you have to consider How these all work together. And a nice quote, for statistics that from a company called hedge stream is that this is about the brand story though I forgot to mention this in the earlier part of the conversation, that if people love a brand story, they found that 55% are more likely to buy the product in the future. 44% will share the story that’s earned marketing, free marketing, and 15% will buy the product immediately. Right. So if you’re earning more trust with the design, connecting emotionally with the brand’s story that is threaded throughout the ecosystem of your digital footprint, and you have a good user experience, I mean, all of a sudden, these things are working together and you’re going to be increasing your trust, you’re going to be increasing your sales, you’re going to be increasing your loyalty and renewals, which put it all together and you have a substantial change in your business bottom line for sure.

Danielle Sutton 20:57

Yeah, definitely. It’s, and I think this comes up in our coaching call. Sometimes too, it can feel like every little decision or every little step can feel like a make or break moment. And in reality, it’s not that definitive, but every little step in every moment adds up and it does kind of combine into real big results and big momentum and big movement. So we kind of hold that tension in coaching, sometimes between this decision does have gravity, but also you just need to make it and see what happens, right? And it all adds up, you know, but it’s a cohesive ecosystem, it’s not one thing will make or break. Like if you just fix your homepage that will solve everything. No, unfortunately, that’s not it, it’s very important to fix your homepage, but it’s not going to make or break everything. No, you need to kind of consider all of these points along that customer journey.

Adam G. Force 22:01

Which it’s a good point, but don’t feel like I guess defeated in any way. Like, oh, you all know just one thing at a time, right? Just like the cycling coach that made small changes, we’re gonna we’re gonna change the, the the helmets that we use, we’re gonna change the tires that we use, we’re gonna and just little by little, everything starts work like what he called compounding over time, right?

Danielle Sutton 22:25

And it’s not hard if you’re basing it off your personal values, your authentic voice and your story. That’s why we repeat that part, because that makes all of these small things. Automatic, actually, when you…

Adam G. Force 22:38

And accurate and genuine I mean, so this trust conversation starts with they really having the right core story, which is why we focus on that so much. So, you know, that is that driver, that is the foundation of the house. Everything else is stems from that. So if you don’t have that, and it’s not done, right. It makes everything much more if we see it all the time, everything is kind of like makes no sense together. That’s not cohesive, you know, when you’re all over. It’s ambiguous. That’s, that’s the word I wanted. You know. And Danielle, there’s one stat guys from this Edelman report. Edelman does a report every year about trusts, and there’s so many good pieces of insight in there, we’ll get some maybe articles out there that kind of capture some of it. But at a top level. The Edelman Report, I’m pulling this up here, let me see if I have it. Yes. So they had this evolution of the trust in a brand, right. So 81% said they won’t do business with the brand. If they can’t trust that the brand will do the right thing for society. This is huge. It became It was first more most important about the product experience, then the customer experience. Now the impact on society is creeping up. And as we become social entrepreneurs trying to make a difference trying to do the right thing with our business. And if our core story, and then our everything we do is threaded through that and we’re trying to do something that’s right, you’re going in the right direction. With where customers heads are at today. It’s important to understand these things, and they call it you have to be aware like we’ve heard of greenwashing and stuff like that, there is this thing they call now trust washing. They will all the consumers out there say that too many brands use societal issues as a marketing ploy to sell more of their products. That’s 56% of people say that. That’s something to be aware of, because we don’t want to do it just because we saw the data. We want to do these things from our from who we truly are our authentic selves and come from a genuine place because otherwise people will know, people will will find out and you will lose that trust. Absolutely.

Danielle Sutton 24:46

And another term that you may have heard this referred to as impact washing right and it’s kind of comes down to walking the talk you know, being true to your values. Live your values. Be consistent in your values in the decisions that you make walk the talk. And that’s why it translates across these three specific things that we mentioned today that all create that trusting experience, because it’s not necessarily a black and white fill in the blank, you know, boom, check, Mark. You, you know, live the decisions that build your business. Exactly.

Adam G. Force 25:28

Well, listen, I think that’s a good note to wrap up. I think we’ve been on for over 20 minutes. And we’ll jump off here. I hope that was helpful for everybody. We’ll put a there’s a download we’re going to put about storytelling because if we can get you guys acclimated and start understanding more about storytelling for your business, it’s a great first step for you. So we’re gonna put our storytelling roadmap in the first comment or the description here, you’ll get a link and you guys can check that out. It’s totally free. Tons of good insights in there just to kind of get you started. Danielle, you good?

Danielle Sutton 25:59

Yeah. That was a nice chat.

Adam G. Force 26:02

Thanks for tuning into the Change Creator podcast, visit us at Change creator.com forward slash go big to get access to free downloads and other great resources that will drive your business forward

Renée Garcia: Becoming the Best Version of Yourself as an Entrepreneur

Listen to our exclusive interview with Renee Garcia:

Subscribe to this show on Spotify  |  iTunes  |  Stitcher  |  Soundcloud

What does it really take to create the reality you want for yourself?

Each stage of entrepreneurial growth requires us to become another version of ourselves. So, we spoke with expert, Renee Garcia, who is a certified reality transurfing instructor to go deep into self-development.

More about Renee:

Renée is a lifelong entrepreneur, a Certified Reality Transurfing instructor, and an Alternatives Space adventurer – endorsed by Vadim Zeland the author and creator of Reality Transurfing. Having ventured deeply into the metaphysical world of Reality Creation she has transformed personal failure into success, poverty into abundance, sickness into healing, and a bleak worldview into one brimming with joy and magic. Renée has employed Reality Transurfing to discover fulfillment, true purpose in life and connect with the highest version of herself. With a self built practical methodology and magical wand in hand, she is now empowering others around the world to do so the same. Her motto is “knowledge without application is merely entertainment”. With a rapidly growing following of supporting “Transurfers” at her side, Renée brings to light the works of Vadim Zeland at home and worldwide. She has developed the only English language Reality Transurfing instructional program which serves as the backbone for The International Transurfing Institute, which she founded in 2015.

Learn more about Renée García and her work at > www.transurfing.us

We also recommend:

Transcription of Interview

(Transcribed by Otter.ai, there may be errors)

Adam G. Force 00:03

Welcome to the Change Creator podcast where entrepreneurs come to learn how to live their truth, get rich and make a massive difference in the world. I’m your host, Adam forest co founder, Change Creator and co creator of the captivate method. Each week we talk to experts about leadership, digital marketing and sales strategies that you can implement in your business and like to go big, visit us at Change creator.com forward slash growbig to grab awesome resources that will help drive your business forward. Hey, what’s going on everybody? Welcome back to the change credit podcast. This is your host, Adam force. Hope you guys are doing amazing today. So we have an exciting guest. Before I get into that, just want to remind you if you missed the last episode, it was with Laurie Ainsworth, Lori and Ainsworth, she is CEO over at the Branson Center for Entrepreneurship over in the Caribbean, we talk about just some key areas that social entrepreneurs need to focus on to really start accelerating their growth. Now this is based on all her experience working with the students that go through the program and, and what she sees as the hang ups and areas that are working well for them and things like that. So we get into a lot of good stuff there. If you want to circle back and check that out. So today, we’re gonna be talking to Renee Garcia, she caught our attention. She’s, she’s got this category called transurfing, I’m gonna let her explain that to you. But we get into conversations that I love, which is around money mindset, you know, developing the self, and really becoming that version of ourselves as an entrepreneur. And this is what she is focused on. So she’s gonna dive into a lot of great perspectives here for you to, to get into, that will be helpful. So hang in for that conversation. Don’t forget to stop by Facebook, follow us there. And you’ll find a big fat button on our Facebook page for Change Creator, to go to our private Facebook group, be a Change Creator. And we talked about all kinds of good things there to stir your thinking and help kind of inspire your business and help you guys get those results. So Alright, guys, I’m gonna get a babble any longer. We’re gonna dive right into this conversation with Rene and start getting into the good stuff. Let’s do it. Okay, show me that. The Hey. Hey, what’s up, Rene, welcome to the Change Creator podcast. How’s everything going?

Renee Garcia 02:35

Everything’s going Awesome. Thank you for having me. Adam.

Adam G. Force 02:37

I appreciate you taking the time to talk with everybody. Yeah, but unique, you know, background and experience, I think it’s really important what you do, and the name Transurfing, the way you kind of identify it really kind of caught my attention. So why don’t you just give people a little bit of just in a nutshell, like a little bit of background, about what Transurfing is in your description. And then we’ll kind of I’ll want to just kind of see kind of how you got there in that experience in your past.

Renee Garcia 03:16

Got it. Okay, so Transurfing, Reality tranSurfing is a new psychological technology that helps the individual understand their external reality a little more vividly or with clarity rather. And then the internal reality, the mindset, the thought processes, the programming, you know, the adherence to us, from a young age, and our relationship between the two, the internal and the external. And it really helps to navigate the different variations of reality that are accessible to everyone. It is a system that really breaks down the ideas of the idea of like a static reality, like a reality that just sort of is the way that it is and everyone must conform and adhere to certain standards or structure. And when you blow apart a belief structure that I believe most people in this world are adhering to reality really does open up in a way and this is what has happened for me and this is exactly why I’m doing what I’m doing now. Because in reality completely my experience of reality completely transformed in a way where I could access much higher and much better opportunities and events and, and, and thoughts and all sorts of stuff that has allowed me has aided me in connecting with higher success much more easily.

Adam G. Force 05:20

Hmm. Interesting. And so how did you start learning about all this?

Renee Garcia 05:26

Well, your podcast is a short one. So I will give you a quick rundown, I was born and raised in a very lower middle class environment, poverty level really. And I, you know, went into adulthood, believing that I was a certain type of person. And there were certain things that I did not have access to that others had access to that were doing it quote, unquote, right. So all the typical, you know, the typical blueprint that the average young adult follows that wasn’t part of my blueprint, I didn’t have a lot of skills and resources that I saw other people benefiting from. But I knew I wanted something different for myself, I knew I wanted to, you know, transcend the mobile home park and transcend the poverty mentality and all that stuff. I just didn’t know how to do it. So I went about it from a very will, you know, a place of will and ego and really striving and really, you know, becoming a really good sales person, and really learning how to hammer my reality to get the stuff that I wanted. And I meant, I managed to create a pretty decent amount of success for myself doing this, but the problem was mid 30s, I had, you know, the classic like nervous breakdown, right, where there was so much stress on me and my life had become all about maintaining the things that I you know, that I had created for myself and Money, money, money and Image, Image image. And one morning, I woke up and realized that I was tremendously unhappy. And my life had become all about, you know, success, or lack thereof, and maintaining everything and, and I went on a journey to find some answers, find myself find a new way to live. And in this time, I found reality Transurfing, and it was very, very unheard of in the US. And in the English speaking world. It was virtually nobody had heard of it. And I read at the time, it was five separate books. Now they’re combined into one big kind of like master book, but at the time, I read the five books, and it provided me beyond the answers that I was looking for. It was reality, Transurfing, showed me everything that I had done, you know, wrong to lead me up to the moment where I, you know, my life sort of broke, broke me. And then it highlighted all the stuff that I had been doing right, and helped me really develop a more firm connection, well, not more firm, because there really was no connection with my heart during this time, where I was creating this life that I thought that I wanted to have. But what Transurfing taught me is really how to start working from an entirely new place, a place of authenticity, and what was specifically intended for me as an individual. And all sorts of, you know, exploring all sorts of dimensions of who I really was as a person, because that previous pre Tran surfing version of myself was something that my environment had created. That was really just a lot of different programs that were running. And that’s why I was really, really unhappy. So it helps me really form a connection with myself, unlike anything I’d ever experienced. And when I did this, all of a sudden, my success and success, just the definition of success changed for me, but personal success and feeling as though every morning you know, when I woke up that I was really, really fired up and and excited about my life. And it was this it was this fuel. It was this energy that this started to really feed a reality that was specific for me specifically intended for me and that I feel amazing about it. Every day, so, and it goes much deeper than that. But just on a personal success level, it’s been transformative beyond anything that I could have ever asked for really.

Adam G. Force 10:12

So what was it? You were looking for? Man, you’re going through these books and trying to figure things out and that you found overwhelmingly, what was that?

Renee Garcia 10:23

Well, I think it was, I? Gosh, that’s such a deep question. That’s an amazing question actually. I think it was really about. And I know, this is gonna sound a little bit corny, but it was, it was really about love, I, I felt for the first time that, you know, all that love that I had in me, that I had suppressed for a lot of years, because I believed love to be an attribute that was not was not part of the formula for success, right? I I thought being a shrewd businesswoman, or, you know, being my level of commitment being super steadfast, and, you know, doing all these things each day in, in what we call an inner intention, way. So inner intention, again, is that will and that ego and striving and forcing and all that kind of stuff, and I thought that’s what created success. Well, when I started to strip away the layers of that persona that I had adopted, I found underneath was actually a very loving, very giving person that cared a lot about other people. And I had become very, very lost to that, you know, that wasn’t even a thought in my, you know, that would that definitely wasn’t part of my daily role, right? I wasn’t thinking about how can I give to other people, how can I be of service? How can I make a difference, you know, my, my success was all me, me, me, me, me, me me. But in tapping into this, this place that had been neglected for my entire life 35 years, there, there was just such a well there of energy. And it was in this place that I not only realized a new path for myself, but I realized a new version of myself. That was that was a lot that was that was so there was so many more facets there and it was just there was so much more there and in merging because the the the name Reality Transurfing, what what that means is Transurfing, is moving through the different variations of reality that are available to us, right, Transurfing reality. But it also applies itself because just as there are an infinite number of versions of reality that are available to us, there’s also an infinite number of versions of ourselves, there’s a lower versions of ourselves, there’s the higher versions of ourselves. So in really getting into this knowledge, there’s 11 core concepts that are extremely transformative, I very rapidly started to ascend to that higher version of myself, and in this ascension to the higher version of myself, I had all sorts of insights and revelations about what I want to do and how I want to leave my mark on the world and what what is of real value to me, right, not perceived value, and not value that my environment is going to convince me as they’re right, the the chasing after the dangling carrot, the need to get the house and the cars and the, you know, you know, 10 or $20,000 vacation once a year, all that stuff. And it was it was really just about me merging from the version of myself that believed all that to a version of myself that had much higher, much more evolved and much more beautiful beliefs, really.

Adam G. Force 14:33

So I mean, for example, you have a program, a course about money and a course about being magnetic and things like that. Sounds like you know, from this frame of mind that you have, that we’re just describing and kind of shifting, those things were not as important so So tell me a little bit about these programs and the position you’re coming from with those that help people like entrepreneurs and such.

Renee Garcia 15:04

So, yeah, the the the two most popular programs I have right now are my Mo Money course and Becoming Magnetic. Really what it’s about is it’s about, again, tapping into tapping into your individual charisma, you’re the individual, the characteristics that you hold as an individual that make you unique. And we live in a culture, especially now with Instagram, and, you know, all these social media platforms, sending us a barrage of images to convince us that we are not perfect that we don’t have what it takes, that, again, things are reserved for other people, not you or other people get things easily but not you, you’re going to have to work really hard. And both my both my courses becoming magnetic and the money course, are really about it’s, it’s almost like this idea that less is more, once you start to strip away all the noise, once you start to really limit your intake of stuff that is not serving you, well, you become more you you become more magnetic you, you you start to radiate things about who you are as an individual out into your world that attracts stuff that specifically intended for you again, not what your environment or what society or what your culture is, is convincing you that’s intended for you. So it really comes back to you know, in a lot of people, you know, have said that Transurfing can be a little bit egocentric and in a can, because it’s about tapping in to your own power, your own charisma, the the pool of the pool of wealth that is inside all of us to be a star at something specifically intended for you. So it’s really about aligning you with that higher version of reality, becoming more of yourself. So one of the big things to Transurfing, that we all really love. And it’s what captivated me in the very, very beginning is transforming, it has nothing to do with changing who you are, even the author says it in the beginning of the book, you will not be asked to change anything about who you are, you are going to become more of yourself. So So in my money course and my becoming magnetic course, it’s really about you discovering and reconnecting with parts of you that you have become lost to and in this. The second is that success is way more way more achievable way more obvious, way more abundant, really, because it’s just easy, it’s easy, it’s accessed a lot easier than doing it the way that I described I was doing it initially and how a lot of entrepreneurs are doing it these days. I mean, let’s face it, the hustle culture and that grind culture. right this is this is Yeah, this is like this is glorified. And this is this is projected to us. And this is the exact thing that broke me so so being given an alternative, right? Oh God, I don’t have to wake up every morning and grind. You know, I can actually do what I love and feel you know and everlasting energy to do this thing every day and my work is not my work anymore. I don’t work I don’t feel like I have a job I’m doing what I love every single day. And it shows to the world right? There’s a certain there’s a certain energy that is coming from me that people are responding to and in this what we call heart and mind coordination. This is when your heart says yeah, that’s great. This This will feel fulfilling this will this will feel awesome to do this. And then the mind being involved in the logic in this heart and mind coordination of finding what is truly intended for you in line with your skill set in line with your purpose in line with, you know all all the characteristics of who you are. This radiates a certain thing people are attracted to this. And then this is what creates success. So that’s really what my what my courses are about.

Adam G. Force 20:07

Yeah, I’ve always been, you know, fascinated and part of here at Change Creator, you know, we work with social entrepreneurs and you know, running a business that’s meaningful that’s contributing to the world, it really comes down to similar lines of thought that you’re having, which is to live life as tact by tapping into your truth, right, that’s what becomes meaningful doing what you love doing what’s interesting to you, what matters to you, you know, things like that. And I do think there’s a lot to be said, and we’ve had conversations on this show many times around money, and the subconscious lines of thought that are just indoctrinated into us that kind of control our behaviors, right of all, actually a lot. And, you know, you talk about reconstructing your belief system around money. And that that is a topic that has always fascinated me, because I think a lot of people have money blocks, whether they know it or not. And, you know, how do you think about reconstructing your belief system around money? Can you just share maybe a little bit a taste of what that is to you?

Renee Garcia 21:24

Yeah, so, you know, one thing about Transurfing that I absolutely love is that, it’s based in like, in scientific, you know, ways of thinking that are actually a lot easier for the mind to accept, like, certain facts, right? Rather, rather than, like, you know, godly beliefs, like God will take care of it, or, or, you know, if I throw my wish into the world, it’ll, you know, I’ll manifest what I want. All that kind of thinking is way too ambiguous. And it’s, it’s not, it’s not concrete enough. So one of my beliefs that will, cause there’s so many, but one of one of my beliefs that’s really changed about money, is this idea that, and I spoke on this earlier that things are intended for others, but not for me, right, or that or, or that things come easier to others, but not for me. And what this really is, what this really is, it’s just a wall that inhibits action. Thinking that they’re going to be, there’s going to be a lot that I’m going to come up against, so I might as well not even try. Whereas Tran surfing, really has showed me that energy in his energy out, you put the time in, you do the stuff that you that you you take the steps you take action. And if you do this consistently, and I know this sounds like so obvious, but the amount of people that I have encountered, that are frozen, in their action, fearful of taking action, don’t know where to start, or the biggest is starting and then coming up on an obstacle, and allowing that obstacle to convince you that you’ve made the wrong choice, or it’s not working, or that you aren’t good enough or that you aren’t doing it right or something like that, and stopping this is why most people do not find success in their lives. Whereas with using these concepts, and this is why I’ve gained such a following at this point, because I’m actually using the concepts in real time to show everyone how they’re working. And people can see that when I come up on an issue or a challenge. The analogy that I like to use is this it’s kind of a silly one. So you know when when you’re driving in your car and you’re coming up on a speed bump, and you slow down. You can actually press the gas down even more and go faster and just kind of glide right over the speed bump. You don’t even have to slow down and most people don’t know this. I know this isn’t like a thing to be advocating for blasting over speed bumps, but this is really how reality works. If you’re coming up against a challenge or an obstacle or a problem to throw more action into it, right? To do it even more, do whatever you’re doing even more. And you’ll see that that problem that might have even stopped you, if you were in a more negative mindset just passes you by Transurfing is helped me to understand how to let my world create solutions for me. So I can use my energy, my fuel to actually do the creating, and all the solutions sort of just come in and handle the challenges. And there’s a much easier, more simplistic way to navigate whatever you’re doing professionally, I mean, then this can be applied to any part of life. It’s our overthinking and our you know, we really create our own problems and blow them up in our minds with, you know, elevated levels of importance or distorted perception of how big the problem actually is, and Tran surfing, we, we say you are the problem, and you’re the solution. So it really helps to like, it really helps to put everything in its place, bring it all back down to size. And again, you don’t either one give up on your dream because of these perceived problems, or to lose an excessive amount of energy trying to find the solutions, you work with your world to find the solutions, you use your fuel your energy to put into the endeavor, and things just grow exponentially really, really, really fast. And it’s amazing. I mean, just what I’ve done with Transurfing alone in the last, you know, few years, this is an example of this. So it really does work, it makes things a lot easier for the entrepreneur, I’ve been an entrepreneur my entire life. And there’s the right way to be an entrepreneur and the wrong way.

Adam G. Force 27:08

Yeah, and everything in between, right? Yes, it’s quite a process and a journey. And I, you know, I think there’s I like to talk about the, the money mindset stuff, because I know, just in our conversations with entrepreneurs, and even, you know, myself, like I have my own money blocks to become aware of, you know, I, I do affirmations and things like that as well, because I become aware of these limitations. And we have to kind of figure out how to, like you say, reconstruct those thought processes. So, it makes a big difference. But first is figuring out what those things are, I guess, right, and being aware of it.

Renee Garcia 27:50

Absolutely. And this is the first this is the first step in creating your own reality, or really bringing to you know, really materialize materializing something that you want. The first and most crucial step is to acknowledge that that version of reality does in fact exist. Without this, you’re not going to go anywhere. So a lot of people with their doubts and their limiting beliefs, they, they, they disallow themselves to take the right movement forward to work towards that thing, because of those doubts and beliefs and all that stuff. So with reality, Transurfing, it’s really allowed me to let the walls of my belief systems sort of dissolve and and, and accept and know. And knowing this deep within is beyond powerful. I mean, the people that are using this stuff right now, to create the reality that they want. This is this is where all the power comes from. Knowing that that version of reality does in fact exist. It now becomes a matter of putting your action, your thoughts and your frequency in line with that version of reality. And when you can, when you can do those things after the initial first step, which is acknowledging that that version of reality does in fact exist. You become magnetic to exactly your choice. And you are priming your world to assist you in presenting to you all the different components of what you need that is going to help you materialize that version of reality you have you you’re essentially living that version of reality prematurely, and that reality is naturally attracted to you that it’s like the doors open, and you just walk to that version of reality. Now it’s not instant, you know, and a lot of people come to this modality and they’re like, okay, I want to manifest a million dollars tomorrow. And, you know, my response to that is, why short yourself, you know, the experience of creating the million dollars, where all the fun is not actually having the million dollars, a lot of people find that hard to accept. But that, you know, really, once you get the million dollars, and you do all the fun stuff with the money, then what, right, then then you’re back with that empty feeling. So it’s about becoming the person that has the million dollars, or the billion dollars, or whatever it is you want, it’s about becoming that person, and working with your world to actually achieve that result. And then the million dollars of the billion dollars is kind of icing on the cake, because you’re the real experience was creating that version of reality. And that’s exactly what I’m doing right now.

Adam G. Force 31:11

Yeah, it’s, it’s a lot to take in, you know, and I, these are lessons that I’ve learned is really, you know, becoming, understanding what that version of yourself that you desire is and then taking, creating, I always looked at it, as you know, and you might think differently, but creating small habits that that person that will create that person, right, so every day, you’re, you’re doing things that create these behaviors and living your life in that way. And is that sound? I guess, in line?

Renee Garcia 31:46

Yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s exactly it, we have a technique in the modality called slides. And really what a slide is, is it’s you running a mental visualization of you getting exactly what it is that you want. And in, in this ideal version of reality, that you’re pretending to live in, instead of daydreaming, you’re actually convincing yourself that you are that person and you’re becoming that person. And then that’s where the action comes in. So as you’re, as you are becoming what I call a state of being, as you’re assuming the state of being, let’s say, a state of being of a person that has a million dollars, as you’re assuming that state of being you’re again, becoming magnetic to the different attributes and things that you need, in order to materialize that version of reality. So without you doing that, first without you living in that state of being, it’s not possible, as soon as you can, as soon as you can assume that state of being, and the power that a person feels, when, you know, I, I’ve been doing this, I’ve done this, I’m doing this right now, the power that is associated with that, you realize that, you know, you can, you can go even more, you can get even bigger, you know, and, and again, it’s it’s not about it’s not about doing something in the direction of what your environment is convincing you as the right direction, right, the typical standards that society presents to us, but but realizing that as an individual, you can have whatever it is you want to have for yourself, you can somebody else has done it, right? somebody that has had less resources than you less skills than you has done it, you are able to access that version of reality if you decide it to be so if you choose it to be so. So it’s in this the reality, your world, your your your options really become limitless and nature and reality and life become fun. And that’s exactly what I was missing in my pre trans surfing reality. Life had become a grind. You know, I was hustling all day, every day. And it was painful. And I didn’t want to do it anymore, but I didn’t know how to stop and all of my little brief moments of joy were from, you know, making a big sale and then I got some money and I’m like, Oh, this feels great. But those became shorter and shorter and shorter amounts of time that I felt joy. And now it’s like being in creation mode non stop. My objective is not the money even though I have plenty of it. My objective is not the money. My objective is, you know, something much, much greater than any financial gain that I could create for myself. This is where this is where it’s all at. And it’s easy for me to assume that state of being in live in that state of being because it feels so damn good. You know, because it feels so damn good. So that’s where it’s at. Find What’s good, find what feels really, really good for you. find what feels really, really good for you. And then life’s a feast. And it’s fun. You’re enjoying yourself, you’re pumping energy into something that’s gonna that’s going to that’s going to pay you back beyond what you what your original intention is even more.

Adam G. Force 35:50

I love it. I love it. Thank you for sharing and we’re gonna close out and I want to make sure you have a chance just to let people know if they want to learn more about what you’re doing, get involved, where do they go?

Renee Garcia 36:01

Yeah, we got lots of stuff if you would like to jump into the teachable course has been wildly popular this year. It’s on Teachable International Transurfing Institute. It’s called reality 2.0. But if you don’t want to spend any money and you just want to learn all this stuff for free, we have over 600 videos on Transurfing TV on YouTube right now. So you could go on there and just binge and learn all the concepts and the different ways to practically apply them to your life and your mind. We have a very, very thriving Facebook group, international Transurfing Institute, Facebook group, lots of people from brand new to the scene to advanced transurfers that are even instructors so as translators we really really love to help out the newcomer. So if you to come in there and ask a million questions, we will give you a million answers. I’m on Instagram, reality_Transurfing and if you want to learn more my website www.transurfing.us

Adam G. Force 37:11

Thanks for tuning in to the Change Creator podcast visit us at Change creator.com forward slash go big to get access to free downloads and other great resources that will drive your business forward.

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth: Key Areas Social Entrepreneurs Focus on For Faster Growth

Listen to our exclusive interview with Lauri-Ann Ainsworth:

Subscribe to this show on Spotify  |  iTunes  |  Stitcher  |  Soundcloud

What are social entrepreneurs doing today to accelerate their success? We spoke with Lauri-Ann Ainsworth, CEO of the Branson Centre for Entrepreneurship in the Caribbean. She mentors many startups and entrepreneurs and is on the front lines addressing the biggest challenges and seeing what is driving their progress forward.

More About Lauri:

Lauri-Ann carries with her years of experience in developing the Caribbean’s entrepreneurial landscape. Having coached and mentored startups, she’s developed a strong passion for supporting the entrepreneurial ecosystem supported by her visionary thinking and leadership capabilities around development, partnerships, fundraising and communications. She is a certified project manager and a graduate of the University of Toronto.

Learn more about Lauri and her work at > bransoncentre.co

We also recommend:

Transcription of Interview

(Transcribed by Otter.ai, there may be errors)


Adam G. Force, Lauri-Ann Ainsworth

Adam G. Force 00:03

Welcome to the Change Creator podcast where entrepreneurs come to learn how to live their truth, get rich and make a massive difference in the world. I’m your host, Adam forest co founder, Change Creator and co creator of the captivate method. Each week we talk to experts about leadership, digital marketing and sales strategies that you can implement in your business and like to go big, visit us at Change creator.com forward slash growbig to grab awesome resources that will help drive your business forward. Hey, what’s up, everybody? Welcome to the change order podcast. Hope you guys are doing amazing on this fine Wednesday, Adam force here host of the show. So some exciting stuff going on. Let’s just see, besides all the world chaos that is taking place, it’s like a live reality TV show that’s happening, pretty much. Let’s get on a positive note of 2021 ramping up our businesses. If you missed the last episode with Trevor Anderson, we talked about what it takes to build a winning agency. But you can look at that as what it takes to build, you know, a service based business right at the he’s built a couple of agencies. So we get into this conversation. It’s really great conversation. Trevor’s a cool guy. He’s actually right here in Miami near me. And he has all kinds of awards with his agency and stuff. So lots of insights young dude. And, you know, he’s crushing it. So there’s a lot to be learned from the processes that he’s put in place and how he’s actually developed his quiet roster and all that kind of stuff. Alright, so the interview that I’m going to have today is with Laurie and Ainsworth. Now, in all transparency, this was recorded earlier, in 20, and slipped through the cracks, it never got published. So we wanted to take a moment to share this interview, because it’s a valuable interview. So now, Laurie, and Ainsworth is the CEO of the Branson center of entrepreneurship in the Caribbean. If you recall, I was just, I was just a speaker at the Branson center of Entrepreneurship Summit that they just did a lot of fun, exciting event, there’ll be more coming out around that soon, I think with them. So, you know, laurieann, she has a lot of experience in developing the entrepreneurial landscape in the Caribbean, right. She’s coached and mentored startups, she has a, you know, a very big passion for helping drive the entrepreneurial ecosystem forward. And she just has this leadership quality, that’s really important to the Branson team. She’s really good at developing partnerships, fundraising, communication, so all these things that are very valuable to that environment over in the Caribbean, as they work with entrepreneurs in different startups. So she has a lot of experience to share when it comes to social entrepreneurship. And that’s what we want to dig into is, you know, what, what are some of the challenges these social entrepreneurs are facing? How are they overcoming them, these are things that you want to become aware of, and there are pitfalls that you can avoid, but also insights to help you make progress with your business, the same kind of progress that all the people going through the Branson center of entrepreneurship are making, right? So a lot to be learned here. And it’s a valuable conversation. So we’re going to share this with this interview here today. And I hope you guys enjoy it. Don’t forget to follow us on Facebook. That’s the bread and butter channel for us. And we have our private Facebook group called be a Change Creator, it’s right there on the on the Facebook page, the big button you can get to it. And guys, if you haven’t been to our website in a while, we’ve been putting out a lot of content, lots of different interviews, you can get show notes and things like that. We also have a ton of very extensive guides, right? We call them pillar content resource hubs, whatever you want to call it. They’re deep dive pieces of content. All right, and they’re right there on the homepage, we put them now, and there’s more and more coming. But this is to help organize what we have to help you find what you’re looking for. Right. So dive into those. Get the insights you’re looking for. It might be about brand storytelling, you might be looking for the best SEO tools you might be looking for, you know, different things around e commerce, we have all of that there, depending on what your business is and what you need right now on your journey. So don’t forget to stop by at Change creator.com and that’s it guys. We’re gonna dive into this conversation. I hope everybody’s New Year is off to a good start. And that this conversation is going to help feed your inspiration and give you fresh ideas and insights that drive your business forward. Okay, show me the heat. Hey, Laurie, welcome to the Change Creator podcast show. How are you doing today?

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 05:09

I am great. Adam, thank you so much for having me on.

Adam G. Force 05:12

You are welcome. I’m excited. You know, we did an interview with Jean and Richard. And now we got you here. So we’re keeping it in the Branson family and keep supporting you guys. And we love all the work you’re doing. So I’m excited about this.

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 05:24

Yeah, no, that’s awesome. I love that you have me on. I’m so glad to be a part of the Brandon center family and just talking to you today.

Adam G. Force 05:31

Yeah, how did you get involved with them anyway?

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 05:34

Okay, so, great story. So I’ve always been interested in entrepreneurship, and actually started my career in marketing. And I left my marketing job, I started my own business as a marketing agency. Then I got myself back into the entrepreneurship world and I started working leading a tech accelerator in Jamaica to be in that tech accelerator. We had a relationship with the Branson center, we were always partnering together and working closely. So I was quite familiar with their program and their current CEO. Well, I decided to leave that tech accelerator, I saw this CEO of the Johnson said data farmers market. And she picked me up there. And pretty much told me that I needed to call my work with her, she actually had just become the CEO, she was moving the center from Montego Bay, where Richard Branson had launched it to Kingston where I live, and I agreed to come and help her with her program. So two and a half years later, I’m the CEO of the Branson center.

Adam G. Force 06:40

Wow. That’s pretty exciting, huh.

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 06:43

Yeah, it’s quite exciting.

Adam G. Force 06:44

Interesting. Um, so what have you been doing with them since you started?

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 06:50

Yeah, thanks for asking that. So you know, I think when whenever there’s a change in leadership, you always want to kind of make your own mark, and the previous two CEOs of the Branson center had done a stellar job with what they were able to bring individually to the program. And for me, I personally am very much into productivity and wellness. And I wanted to create a program that was supporting the whole see the whole entrepreneur, not just helping them to grow their business from a financial or investment standpoint. So I, when I took over, I was very clear about ensuring that we injected a wellness aspect to the program. And then COVID happened. And I think it’s become even more important. But while COVID happened to me that we also had to shift our program. So whereas we were supporting entrepreneurs to accelerate their businesses, and we’re supporting the entrepreneurs in the group stage, not startups. Yeah, we had to shift No, because of what’s happening to our current entrepreneurs, they’re losing revenue, they’re laying off some of their team members. So we’ve shifted, and we are now focusing on recovery planning. So we are focusing on three pillars, three main areas, which is marketing, which has been a huge, huge demand, particularly how to be visible how to start telling your story to the right audience so that you create the demand for your products or services, financial coaching, how can you keep more cash in your business? You know, how do you plan for the future? And of course, strategic planning, what do you need to do now what you need to do in six months, you know, 12 months? And how can you make decisions that are practical? And so what we’re doing with that is trying to give them scenario based approach so that they’re not doing these knee jerk reactions and decision making. So that’s how we’re kind of switching up our program now.

Adam G. Force 08:51

Yeah, no, it makes a lot of sense. And, you know, people we’ve noticed the panic, right? Like we had this pandemic take place. And then there’s a panic and especially in the impact entrepreneurship space, people who are coming from this mindset, they feel like they’re taking advantage of a situation when it comes to selling during this time. And this has been a big setback. So you know, we did a whole week of live videos where we were addressing some things in our Facebook group and you know, what we’re telling people is the, as an entrepreneur, we solve problems, right? So right now, whether let’s take the pandemic way you’re solving someone’s problem, but the pandemic on top of it, and they just have different problems to solve. So you could, you’re still just being an entrepreneur and if you’re afraid to sell then you don’t love your audience because if you love your audience, you’re going to help them by changing their life and selling what you offer. Right?

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 09:46

I couldn’t agree more with you Adam and that is, you know, you you said a word that’s really important, the mindset, you know, we have to change the mindset. It’s not about selling and to just earn money, especially in the impact space, yourself. problem for people. And you’re being rewarded for your efforts. You know, you have to continue to live and thrive so that you can share your gift, whatever your gift is. And I totally agree with that.

Adam G. Force 10:12

Love it. Love it. Yeah. So and how has been, I guess, how has the response been on your side with people coming through the program and stuff? Like, have you started implementing these discussions and changes? And like, what’s it been like for you?

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 10:27

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, for us, we have been outside of our office for more than eight weeks now. And we had a very much interactive kind of experience for entrepreneurs, we had to take it 100% online. So we’ve shifted everything. And we thought that we would see a decrease in engagement, because our entrepreneurs really like to network with each other. But surprisingly, they love engaging with each other, they actually love coming to our workshop, they love coming to the sessions that we’re still having for them, because they get into a renewed sense of energy and drive, but to continue doing what they’re doing, and just getting new ideas and, you know, be more innovative and collaborative. So it’s been great for them to have our program continue. And I think it’s actually been really important for them to continue thriving during this period.

Adam G. Force 11:18

Absolutely. You know, what, that networking peoples, they kind of thrive off each other’s energy in some ways. And, like an interesting example is, you know, we’ve had a student in one of our programs, and he, he went through this program, and now he spent over $150,000. Over the years, he helped, he works with like, Olympians, pro athletes, all these people, and he wanted to move his business online, right. And so he struggled. And he spent all this money on marketing teams, website designers, and it never came together cohesively because some really fundamental marketing strategy steps were missed, right? So he goes through this program, and within two months, he’s selling a 15 $100 offer, he’s getting applications or pros to work with him. And all this stuff just started shifting and changing. And when that happened in the group, environment, everyone else started getting excited, and everyone has started paying more attention and working harder to see the uptick.

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 12:12

Yeah, no, absolutely. You know what that reminds me of a session that I just recently did with my team, I learned how to do masterminds. And I think that’s exactly what we need more of know, people actually having these groups of masterminds, where you’re being encouraged to move to the next level by your peers. And it’s not just, you know, everyone sitting down holding hands, kind of sobbing and crying over spilt milk, but really like, what can you do, you know, to move to the next level and empower each other? I think that’s awesome.

Adam G. Force 12:44

Absolutely. You know, one of the best pieces of perspective or advice I’ve gotten was from one of our current mentors, and we pay a pretty penny to be part of these masterminds. And so we’re at a summit in Redondo Beach in California, and not long ago, before this whole pandemic. And she was like, Listen, all entrepreneurs face the same challenges. It’s just the difference between the ones that succeed and don’t is how they respond to those challenges. And that is such a simple statement. And you might put people like when you just think about that, it is a game changer. Because if you, if you let’s say you put all this work in, in your business, the pandemic hits, and now you’re not selling, but you just spent 20 grand on marketing and it’s not working, you can start to doubt your product, you can start to be fearful and start making decisions out of fear and panic. And all of a sudden, now you’re going from point A to point B gets much, much longer from bad decision making, because you’re making it out of emotion. Right? And if you respond differently, it’s a game changer, right?

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 13:48

Yeah, no, I couldn’t agree with you more, there’s so much nuggets of wisdom right there. Because, you know, bad decision making comes from Yes, that whole process of us going down, you know, that spiral of depression and just self doubt. And that’s why I think, you know, first is ensuring that you’re taking care of yourself, but because once you’re getting enough sleep, and exercise, and all those good things we all know, that we should be doing, it increases your capacity to actually make a good decision and to think through, you know, first and foremost. And then I think the next component is, you know, getting up to be a part of those groups, those communities so that you can recognize what you’re offering is actually needed. And you don’t, you know, talk yourself out of it, like what you’re describing.

Adam G. Force 14:33

Yeah, I mean, and that is the key because if you’re smart, you just diagnose the problem and start making smart decisions without being emotionally driven. I remember when I was younger, and I was working in corporate world, thank god that’s over. You know, my father used to be a little bit of a mentor to me, and he’s like, if you get some email that like really ticks you off and you get emotionally charged. He’s like, do not respond for 24 hours. He’s like, you cannot respond from an emotion. State. I mean, it’s just a similar concept, right? similar idea of how we’re thinking about our businesses and responding. And it just changes the entire trajectory. So when you bring in the health aspect to open up the capacity for focus and smart decision making, I love that, like, I’ve been a big fan of like meditation, health, and there’s obviously a ton ton ton of science that supports what this actually does to improve your own capacities for better, you know, decision making and business.

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 15:33

Yeah, no, absolutely. I couldn’t agree more I, I’m a big fan of meditation. As I was saying to, you know, before our call, I wear both hats. I’m the CEO of the Branson center. And I’m also very much in the wellness space, I’m a life coach, my health coach, a yoga teacher. And so I totally subscribe to taking care of yourself first, so that you can take care of business. And meditation is something that I practice all the time. My own mentor, you know, tells me that the first thing I have to do every day is take care of my fundamentals, which is did you get enough sleep to function? Did you exercise you have your body whatever that looks like? And are you putting nourishing food in your body? Those are my fundamentals on top of meditation, you know, I need meditation to focus my mind get clear. And I think there’s a lot of misconception about meditation, but maybe that’s a different podcast.

Adam G. Force 16:23

No, I mean, it is because, well, it’s also one of these things that like, I’ve and I’ve been guilty as charged, whereas like, I did a year straight, 20 minutes of meditation in the morning, 20 minutes in the evening, and I had incredible effect on me. But over time, for whatever life circumstances came up, I just kind of lost, I fell off the wagon, as they say, as they say, and even though you know how important it is to do these things. You have this like, unconscious routine of just doing like, I like to wake up, have my coffee, and at 6am I’m sitting at my desk doing work. And I’m like, this is not the best thing for me. But I still can’t stop myself sometimes, you know,

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 17:03

I know that habits, you know, the habits that we have, there are so easy to fall back on. I’m not gonna say that I don’t either, especially during this period, you know that the first two weeks, I was like, Oh, my God, what’s happening watching us not doing meditation. But I think it’s important to kind of recognize it when you recognize it first. And there’s an awareness of Okay, I’m doing something that I know I’m not supposed to be doing. How can you shift the habit? and really try and not do what people tell you? You should do? Like, you have to do the 20 minutes. It could be the minute you know, it could be the five minutes?

Adam G. Force 17:37


Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 17:37

And I think that’s important for people to know, you know, you don’t have to it’s not all or nothing.

Adam G. Force 17:42

Exactly. It’s just do what works for you start somewhere, right? Makes a big difference. And so are you applying this now to the Branson center?

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 17:52

Yeah. So I mean, while as I said to you before, you know, when I started in this capacity, I wanted to bring wellness to our entrepreneurs. And we started doing it through, you know, some talks with myself and entrepreneurs, as well as with my team, we were, you know, doing our meditation and brought essential oils to the office. And we continue to provide our entrepreneurs with resources and materials to support them along their journey of wellness, both mentally, physically, and even psychologically, you know, I think all of this helps. So just the awareness and sending that message out there to them is what we’re doing, right? No, obviously, we’re not in the business of wellness. But I think personally, that it’s a big part of what we need to communicate in order to help them and Funny enough, when we’re talking to our entrepreneurs, some of them said, you know, we do want more of that we do want to hear, you know, that some of us are stressed out to somebody about being stressed out. And oh, we didn’t know that we could talk to you about being stressed out. I’m like, of course you can, you know, you don’t have to come to us and just talk to us about business and your numbers and where you’re going. We’re totally here for you in a holistic way. So yeah, so we’ve been opening up the floor and just making space for that. And I think it’s it’s working right now.

Adam G. Force 19:17

I love that. And I think it is an important part because it’s because it’s not just one thing or another, like if somebody wants to be successful as an entrepreneur, there are multiple parts of the lifestyle that you need to be addressing, like you said, right, you don’t you don’t just have a car and an engine, you need fuel to so making it at least maybe it’s not the primary part of what you’re teaching, but it is part of the conversation, right?

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 19:43

Absolutely. Exactly. Adam that’s it.

Adam G. Force 19:45

Yeah, that’s interesting. And I can imagine they’re probably hungry for it. And you know, it’s interesting because I, I follow this guy, James Wedmore is a pretty amazing entrepreneur as well. I kind of look up to some of his mentorship over the years and he Has this program to help young entrepreneurs, it’s called nail your niche. And we wanted to explore it. So we’re like, let’s see what he’s doing to help people with this niche. So we look in there. And out of these 10 modules, one of the things he has in there is on meditation. So it’s like, meditate on your niche. I mean, since like, Man, it’s, these things are starting to be more commonly integrated as part of a process for success.

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 20:26

You know, and I think that that is the way that we need to go, there are so many different things like, you know, meditation, taking care of yourself productivity. And when I say productivity, I use that very loosely, but just what works for you, you know, decluttering, your desktop, you know, decluttering, your shoulder, the things that are adding to your stress and anxiety that you pick up your phone and you see, you know, 2000 messages that’s adding to your, you know, your stress level, and not supporting you in having a calm and clear mind. So there are so many nuggets, I think that need to be added into this whole trajectory of, you know, success and achievement. And I think that it’s not been in the conversation for a long time. What some people have been talking about, as you say, James Wedmore, but I think it needs there needs to be a bigger space for it.

Adam G. Force 21:14

Yeah, yeah. No, totally makes sense. And I guess it’s one of those things that is, it’s growing, right. So it’s, it’s going through it’s it’s, it’s taking its course, I guess, and we are the kind of players that are helping push it, right. Yeah, absolutely.

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 21:28

And I think that it’s so important that we do give it a voice. So we give it a big voice. And I think more persons even like Arianna Huffington, who has, you know, completely moved into this, you know, wellness space? And, you know, show that’s necessary?

Adam G. Force 21:44

Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, at the end of the day, like what I have found over the years as an entrepreneur is sure you need some business savvy, and you know, you have to understand some of the technical stuff. But when you start making six figures, and you want to go to seven figures and things like that, because you’re you’re helping more people, and you’re having a bigger impact. There’s a part where no matter who you are, and how successful you are, it becomes mostly a mental game, like, what are the subconscious, like blocks, you have bad habits, like we talked about that are holding you back? And how do you start getting around those things? So it’s the bigger part of the puzzle, in my perspective, has been the mental part of it.

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 22:25

Yeah, I couldn’t agree more with you. And I think that as you’ve been stepped more into leadership positions, whether or not it’s in a corporate space, or it’s in your own, know, your own business, it becomes more of a mental behavior.

Adam G. Force 22:42

You know, because we all have these histories and stuff. And we have certain things that like, it actually led me I read, geez, what’s his name, but it’s a book called Biology of Belief, by this doctor, and I started reading a bunch of books about subconscious mind, like biology bleeds, well, understanding the science. And it’s just incredible how, like, basically 90% of our actions throughout the day are determined by the subconscious. So if you don’t understand how you’re programmed subconsciously, or how to change it, to become the person you want to become, you’re gonna have a very long road.

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 23:18

Yeah, and yes, and yes, so I’m doing that, right. My mentor, is carrying me through this whole program to unlock what’s in my own subconscious, so that I can continue to lead in a way that I want and show up in the way that I want to, because I think this is, you know, this is something that’s not unique to anyone we all have traumas we all have, the beliefs that we have, that we don’t recognize, are actually leading our lives and leading our actions. And I think it’s very important to tap into that and just figure out what’s going on so that you can show up as your best self.

Adam G. Force 23:53

Absolutely. Now, here’s a good one for you, Laurie, that we’d probably hear both like, but from the entrepreneurs who work with is, you know, they have kind of a hate relationship with money because they think it’s the root of all evil, or they see the Jeff Bezos of the world and they hate that he’s hoarding billions of dollars. I have found that okay, if that’s how you’re is that if that’s what you’re saying about other people, you’re just continuously programming yourself to not like money. And guess what happens to people that don’t like it? You don’t have any

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 24:27

It doesn’t come to you

Adam G. Force 24:28

come to you.

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 24:29

Yeah, totally. I mean, all of that, you know, law of attraction, belief system around money. Yes, absolutely. I agree with you. And I have been in the entrepreneurship space for many years now. And that is the very same thing I hear all the time. Entrepreneurs feeling bad about charging for their services, you know, feeling like they have this gift, whether it’s service based or product based, and they should give and particularly if you’re talking about you know, social impact. People are very apprehensive about charging, but then my question is How do you survive to continue to offer the service, if you don’t get paid for it?

Adam G. Force 25:04

100% You can’t help anybody then. And I thought, that’s why you’re here, you’re here. You know, I get it, because I used to be that guy. I was the guy who hated money. It’s the root of all evil, it causes poor human behavior. And so I took, I mean, and I still work on it, I do meditation affirmations, like I had to, like really change my perspective and my thinking about that. Otherwise, I just got capped off at like, it’s funny how your bank account and your business earnings will just cap off at whatever your setting is at. And you’re like, why am I stuck here? Like, and you just got to start figuring that out?

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 25:45

Yeah, you have to call it and I totally believe in manifesting, and that your thoughts and your words have power. And I did you know, I love that. And I’m not sure if I can say her name on a podcast, but I did this course, about money manifesting. One of the interesting things that I’m very conscious and aware of, is how we speak about money and I have children. And what I say to my children about money, I’m very aware now. So you know, to say, you know, don’t touch that money. It’s dirty. Yeah. No, money doesn’t grow on trees.

Adam G. Force 26:18

Exactly. Was this a girl or boy? T Harv Ecker

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 26:23

No, it’s, um, she has this program called Get Rich Bitch.

Adam G. Force 26:29

Oh, okay. I probably don’t know. But I’ve seen a few people out there hitting this market like that. And it’s they all are teaching a very common, you know, concepts, which is to help you get over the and understand these barriers. Right.

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 26:43

Her name is Denise Duffield Thomas.

Adam G. Force 26:45

Yeah, no I don’t know her. Yeah no, yeah, you can talk about, we could look at other people. Sure.

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 26:50

Yeah. And I didn’t know if I could say that word. But yeah…

Adam G. Force 26:52

It’s all good.

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 26:53

That’s the name of her thing. Okay.

Adam G. Force 26:55

Interesting. You know, it’s funny, because you talked about like, freeing up space before, you know what I recently did. I catch myself like just unconsciously grabbing my phone to look at updates, you know, like, what’s going on with our marketing on Facebook? Well, any new emails or just whatever, and I was getting so like, Oh, my God, I gotta stop doing this. So I set an alarm for 9am 12pm 3pm and 7pm. And those are the only four times a day that I will check email and stats are anything and it’s made a huge difference. I’ve my weekly phone time has gone down four hours.

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 27:30

Yeah, I think that’s great, Adam, and that is exactly what more people need to do. I totally do the same thing, too. I go, and I look at my phone constantly. Even if I’m in the middle of writing something and check, another message came in, because I have to, you know, and I think we all are guilty of it. And it’s changing the habit by saying you know what, I’m going to set a certain amount of time to do different tasks. And I do that myself. So yeah, I have sheduled my time into different blocks, I have admin time where I’m checking that email. And that’s usually in the morning or the evening, that I have focused time, which is my one or two hours of actual dedicated work. And that for me is in the morning, sometime where my brain is clear, I have the most energy and willpower. And then I have sacred time where it’s for my kids. And I had to have this when I was in the office because I pick up my kids from school, brought them home. And so I knew that I couldn’t have time for meetings or for work or for you know, anything. So I would block these times in my calendar. And I tried to do it still having that sacred time where I’m spending that, you know, hour or a few minutes doing whatever with the kids or with whoever or for myself, you know, so that’s how I block my time as well.

Adam G. Force 28:48

Yeah, I love that. I love that. Yeah. So what are some major, I guess, things to look out for right now with the Branson center that people should be aware of now you guys are focused in the Caribbean, right? So do you have to live in the Caribbean then to be part of what you’re doing? Or how does that all work for people?

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 29:07

Yeah, thanks for asking. So we are Caribbean based, we are Branson center Caribbean. So we support entrepreneurs in the Caribbean that we have had entrepreneurs in other countries but who are somehow related to the Caribbean, right? Yeah, we do, however, have a global network of mentors, coaches facilitators who all support us to help what we’re doing. And our mission is to create dynamic Caribbean economies. Because, you know, as many people know, the Caribbean suffers from low unemployment and GDP growth. And so when Richard Branson started the Branson center of entrepreneurship, it was to inject more innovation and, you know, sparked more entrepreneurs starting up and crazy businesses and creating jobs that would lead to economic growth. So since we started in 2011, we’ve made a lot of shifts. And right now, we are supporting our entrepreneurs here in our cohort to recover and become resilient. We’re also we also have a blue economy program because you know, climate change is an ocean health is something that’s very important to us. It’s very important to our founder as well, Richard Branson. And so we have been supporting the blue economy with a special stream. And in our response to this whole crisis, we are now putting together a whole hubbub that we will make available to public so that people can access some of our trainings that they can grow their businesses or recover from this crisis. So there, you know, there’s lots that we’re going to be putting out, we’re actually going to be doing a summit soon to support everyone globally as well, not just the Caribbean.

Adam G. Force 30:53

That is awesome. Yeah, I love it. So where can people just learn a little bit more and find out, you know, what you guys are up to? where’s the best place for them to go?

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 31:04

Yeah, so you can find us at Bransoncentre.co. That’s our website. And you can find us on Instagram, Branson Centre Caribbean, and those are the best places to find us. We’re also on Facebook or on Twitter, but I think, you know, go to our website to check us out, go to Instagram and see what we’re doing. It’d be great to get more people interested in what we’re doing support in any way we’re looking for. We’re always looking for mentors and persons who would like to help with their expertise, you know?

Adam G. Force 31:34

Yeah, absolutely. And just so anybody listening knows, it’s spelled Branson, and then the word center is ce n t r e. Okay. Just Laurie, thanks so much for your time today is a lot of fun. And I feel like there’s just a lot we’re on the same page about so it’s exciting to see what you’re bringing to the table for the Branson team and you’re obviously a great fit for them.

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 31:59

Oh thank you so much. This was such fun. I love talking to you. Thank you so much.

Adam G. Force 32:03

All right, take care.

Lauri-Ann Ainsworth 32:05

Take care.

Adam G. Force 32:07

Thanks for tuning in to the Change Creator podcast. Visit us at Change creator.com forward slash go big to get access to free downloads and other great resources that will drive your business forward.

Trevor Anderson: What it Takes to Build a Winning Agency

Listen to our exclusive interview with Trevor Anderson:

Subscribe to this show on Spotify  |  iTunes  |  Stitcher  |  Soundcloud

What does it take to start an award-winning agency and what are the latest trends for 2021? He’s built two successful agencies and has now been recognized as one of the best in Miami. His name is Trevor Anderson and in this conversation, we discuss how he did it and some powerful marketing trends for 2021.

More About Trevor:

Experienced beyond his years, Trevor is known for his broad set of skills that he has acquired from his accomplishments in marketing, real estate, tech, and management roles. A natural problem solver, his unique approach to setbacks allows him to quickly overcome obstacles in his way. Dedicated, relentless, and a forward-thinker, Trevor’s determination to deliver above and beyond results sets him apart from the competition.

Trevor graduated from the University of Mississippi with a BA in Marketing, as well as minors in both Spanish and International Studies, his academic career speaks for itself. After his education at Highland Park High School, Trevor entered college as a Provost Scholar with multiple accolades and scholarships for academic excellence, athletic achievement, and philanthropic endeavors. Trevor acquired significant leadership experience within his board of director roles with multiple on-campus student marketing organizations and as a Facility Manager of the Campus Recreation Department receiving awards from his supervisors for his quick positive impact on the team.

From a young age Trevor worked closely with his family on a diverse assortment of successful entrepreneurial pursuits in Photography, Film, and Web Development. Trevor developed powerful communication skills in both English and Spanish and an astute understanding for business through his work with D Magazine and various projects in Residential Real Estate. His success in digital marketing, implementing innovative strategies with brands both large and small, has allowed him to acquire unrivaled expertise and proficiency in technology.

Learn more about Trevor and his work at > andersoncollaborative.com

We also recommend:

Transcription of Interview

(Transcribed by Otter.ai, there may be errors)

Adam G. Force 00:03

Welcome to the Change Creator podcast where entrepreneurs come to learn how to live their truth, get rich and make a massive difference in the world. I’m your host, Adam forest co founder, Change Creator and co creator of the captivate method. Each week we talk to experts about leadership, digital marketing and sales strategies that you can implement in your business and like to go big, visit us at Change creator.com forward slash go big to grab awesome resources that will help drive your business forward. Hey, what’s going on everybody? Welcome back to the Change Creator podcast show. I hope you had a relaxing and rejuvenating holiday break. Happy New Year to everybody. So much exciting stuff to do for 2021. Hope you’re thinking about the success milestones and goals you have for the year, and you know where you want to go and who you need to become right. So if you guys missed the last episode, don’t forget to circle back and check it out. It is a good one, it’s with Richard Lau. And it’s about choosing the right logo for your business. There’s so much and how that the way we design logos is evolving, you know, with digital design and stuff like that, and what is the intentions behind it? What do we need to know about them, He is also a guy that sold built and sold resume.com. He’s building and selling logo.com. So we talked about his model for buying a building and selling businesses as well. Okay, so the conversation we’re gonna have today, which I’m excited about, is with Trevor Anderson. So Trevor is actually the founder and CEO of Anderson collaborative, not this is his second agency that he has built. And they’re doing really well, they were recognized with honors, as one of the top marketing companies in 2020. In Miami, that’s where I am. So I’ve connected with Trevor here out in Miami. And I’m always, you know, I love talking about, you know, just business as around like branding and marketing and different things like that. So we’re gonna dive into some key topics and how he’s built up his agencies, and some of the trends that are taking place in the market today. And we’re going to talk about branding and things like that. So hang in, and we’re going to connect on that stuff. Our team has been working really hard and planning for a big 2021. And some of the things we’ve been focusing on are really just how we’re serving our students in some of our educational areas, which is like our captive a program, and how that’s evolving. And it’s exciting, because it’s a newer offer. But we’re now getting renewals with students and having people start year two. And it’s been really exciting to see the progress. You know, we, we help people supercharge their marketing with storytelling. And it’s interesting, because it’s so much more that comes out of it, because we’re building a full business system right through that program. But what has been really, I guess, powerful for people, what we’re learning through the program is that we do three live coaching calls a month, right? I mean, and so the exciting part of it is that it’s just kind of like the fraction of a cost. And this is how we set the model up to make it a low barrier for entry. And seeing the results and being able to help people at that kind of intimate level has been very excited for, for me and the team. And we love helping and seeing people actually start getting their final financial earnings where they want it to go, getting clarity on their brand, telling their brand stories, being authentic understanding the marketing world because they’re all masters of their craft, but they haven’t mastered their business skills, right. If you don’t have the business skills, you’re going to struggle. And that’s where our team comes in to talk about all the different areas around branding, brand storytelling, marketing, setting up your website, all that kind of good stuff, email systems, you name it. So this year, we’re going to be really leaning in and we hope maybe we can connect with more of you guys through that program and help more people out. So keep an eye out for those things and if you guys go to change credit comm forward slash go big. There is a a masterclass that I put on just to kind of talk about brand storytelling. And I also introduced the program and kind of explain what it’s all about. So if you want to check that out, you’ll have an opportunity just go to that URL change twitter.com forward slash go big. Alright guys, I’m going to stop blabbing. We’re going to get into this conversation with Trevor. Okay, show me the heat. Hey, Trevor, welcome to the change credit podcast show how you doing today, man?

Trevor Anderson 04:58

Hey, I’m doing well. Thanks for having me on.

Adam G. Force 05:00

Absolutely appreciate you being here. You know, it sounds like you’ve done some pretty cool work and with the agency that you have and you are in the Miami area right?

Trevor Anderson 05:13

I am. Yeah, I’m in sunny Miami. It’s it’s pretty nice here right now.

Adam G. Force 05:17

I live in Miami Shores

Trevor Anderson 05:19

That’s awesome. There you go.

Adam G. Force 05:21

Yeah, so I’m not too far. And I was just in Brickell, I lived in Brickell key just less than a year ago I just moved into Miami Shores once we had we had a baby boy just back in April so we’re like Alright,

Trevor Anderson 05:34

Congrats. That’s cool

Adam G. Force 05:34

Thanks. Yeah, doing the house thing.

Trevor Anderson 05:37

Yeah. Yeah, probably not good for a baby.

Adam G. Force 05:41

Yeah, you know, Brickell Key is amazing. I never knew even knew it existed until I moved there. I was like, I was living right in Pembroke Pines, and then Davey and we started looking, and my wife and I were like, holy shit. And I was like, this island. There’s an island in Miami.

Trevor Anderson 05:54

Yeah, it’s cool. It is fun.

Adam G. Force 05:57

So anyway. So just just so people who are listening, just give a little background, because I know you’ve started a couple companies, correct me if I’m wrong. And just give us give the rundown of like that, and just where you are like what you’re doing today?

Trevor Anderson 06:12

Sure. So yeah, exactly. Right. I’ve started two different marketing agencies, this is the current one that I’m working on. Really just have a background in marketing and marketing, consulting, doing that for you know, other agencies doing that for publications, and then kind of dove into the entrepreneurship side of things. here back in 2017, I believe. Yeah. So I started a start a marketing agency with a really good friend of mine in Dallas, we ran it for a few years, and ended up just making the decision to part ways mutually, and go out on my own. And start this agency I here in Miami, which is a little over a year and a half old. And, you know, we’ve we’ve been really fortunate to kind of have a lot more growth than I expected, especially with the COVID situation, everything like that. And I think it’s, I think it’s because we we’ve kind of really simplified what we do, and really tried to focus on providing value. And, you know, thankfully, we’ve been able to build a lot of really great case studies on that. So, right now, we’re just we’re focusing on building that up and sort of, you know, treading the waters as the COVID situation continues. And, yeah, it’s been, you know, I’ve done a lot of different stuff. But this is, it’s been very enjoyable. And just, this is my focus right now.

Adam G. Force 07:27

Yeah, yeah. So I’m curious, you know, from the first agency to your current agency, what did you do different in the approach meaning now you have some experience after the first agency, so like, what did you learn from it? And what are some of the things you did differently the second time around?

Trevor Anderson 07:47

Yeah, man, there’s so many that would there be a whole episode on that one. Well, I mean, that’s important thing. Well, first of all, it was, I started that with, again, a really good friend of mine in college. And, you know, we’re, I think we’re both pretty well versed in what we were talking about. So it’s not like we were faking it, but we did have sort of this mantra of like, fake it till you make it when we were younger, just were really young. And I think that, that sort of the, we trended towards trying to do a lot of things that we shouldn’t have been done. So somebody would say, you know, hey, we need we need some designers, right? Like, we need somebody design some graphic design stuff, or like, Oh, yeah, let’s do that. So we just say yes to a bunch of different stuff. And, you know, that put us into situations where we really weren’t providing as much value just by kind of sticking to the core principles of why we started the business. And so I think that’s a danger for a lot of people. You know, there’s a, there’s a mantra, if you try to be everything, to everyone, you’re gonna be nothing to no one. Yeah. And so with this agency, I’ve really tried to just focus in on kind of three core areas, that kind of all, you know, cohesively fall together. And that’s really promotion that’s building digital experiences. And the data, that’s the glue between that. So when it comes to anything that kind of falls outside of that realm, we stay away from it, we’ll refer to other people, and we’ll be very transparent and just say, hey, that’s, that’s not our thing. And because of that, we’ve been able to really deliver a lot more value make people happy, because we’re not trying to do stuff that we’re not good at. Right?

Adam G. Force 09:20

Yeah, of course, of course. And I guess so. Just, I think a big struggle that people have, and let me know, I guess if you face the same thing, probably more so with the first business with your college buddy. is getting those initial clients before you have all the case studies and all this stuff. And like is the service you’re providing, like you said, you were kind of taking on whatever you could, you know, like, you know, sometimes you have to wonder, am I providing a service that people actually want, you know, or am I a dime a dozen, do I have to be more unique? You know, so The positioning factor and just getting clients on board any any tips for people?

Trevor Anderson 10:06

Yeah, well, so when I when I started that business that was in Dallas. And so I came from an area called Highland Park, which is this has a massive amount of luxury real estate and luxury realty got the chance to work with a lot of different agents and brokerages out there. And that’s really how I got my start. And so the thing was, like, where the value really was, was sort of taking these old school types of people that really operated in like print mail, and just very traditionally, newspaper advertising for the publication of you know, the different properties or marketing and things like that, it’s I had a really close relationship with a few of those people. And so when we had the idea of sort of starting that, and I had some background, and Facebook ads and things like that, and so that was like a big change for them, right, like they’d never done any kind of digital marketing or anything like that. And so we were actually able to, you know, help. One of the teams we worked with really early on, get a ton of success, really build them up in the brokerage. And that got us some attention, build it up. So I think the important thing, there is one, like, where we got hot water with them, it’s like, we tried to do a lot of stuff again, like I said, that we shouldn’t, yeah, wasn’t really like our core area of where we were helping them, right. But the important thing to do, when you’re sort of looking for that right person to work with it’s one, make sure there’s really a need there, make sure he really can help them. And to, you know, sellings not really the hardest part, you can go in there. And if you can speak pretty well, you can speak and get a lot of people excited about what you’re saying is that delivery, right? It’s like a dog chasing a car, we do any get that car. So I my biggest thing I’d say to people is like, you know, don’t be afraid to price yourself, right? Don’t do things for cheap. But also don’t pigeonhole yourself away from that, you know, do some opportunities for cheaper, so you can build on that. But, you know, just make sure that, you know, whenever you’re approaching that sort of thing, that it’s focused on value, it’s about providing value to the person you’re working with.

Adam G. Force 12:11

Yeah, no, I think that makes a lot of sense. And I know, historically, we’ve had times where, you know, I just actually made a video about this, talking about some of the our historical mistakes. And, you know, we have like a $50,000 deal on the table. And at that time, you know, we were under the gun to get some cash in the company. And, you know, we got what we like to call money breath. And, you know, we push too hard, too fast, and so on and so forth, then it kind of like it just kind of put the deal put them it’s kind of like a girl who consents a guy that’s desperate, you know. It’s like, and then later, we have like a much bigger deal. But like they actually like, this is just an example, they offered a retainer. And their retainer was we actually rejected it was bigger than what the first deal was, we rejected, this is $120,000 deal. And we were rejected retainers. And listen, we’re just gonna do a three month partnership, and here’s what it would cost. And let’s just test the waters. See if our partnership is good. Let’s see if we can actually get the results and help you the way that we hope we did the three month thing it crushed it, and then boom, we got the next deal. We got their smaller commitment, and it all kind of like fell into place.

Trevor Anderson 13:28

Yeah, it’s it’s really that snowball effect you’re talking about. I mean, that’s the thing. It’s not that like people the money breath. Before you put it’s funny, definitely you can come off super desperate visa. I mean, that check looks pretty good, right? Yeah. But you got it ends up being such a better relationship. One, your goal should be to build a case study, because then you can go on and get that next plan, right. But by building a case study, you’re actually providing value, right? And so if you focus just on that piece, like, hey, let’s figure out how we can provide them value, then you got somebody who’s your advocate to write and then that client is going to refer you to other people. So yeah, I mean, with that first business, we tried to scale really fast and hop, like, cool. Let’s skip the next big deal. And next big deal. Next Big deal. And then we forget about the people behind us that sort of got us to that point. Yeah. So that’s a good point.

Adam G. Force 14:20

Nice. It’s tough. And you know, I’ve been down a few of those roads, and I work with a bunch of people who are running agencies and businesses like like yours. And, you know, it takes a little I think a major part of it is to be patient to right. It’s like when we’re impatient. We have this culture of impatience. And we may or may not realize it, but that really can hurt the business. If you’re not willing to play the long game. It’s like stocks, like be willing to play the long game. It makes a difference. Man, so So how long now has your current company been up and running?

Trevor Anderson 14:59

So it’s been About a year and a half or so, but I’ve been kind of leading into finally before it was really Incorporated. I was kind of doing the consulting side on my own. So it feels like it’s been a little bit over two years, kind of with the same players being around. Yeah. I guess like the Anderson collaborative brand, really a year and a half old.

Adam G. Force 15:19

Okay, cool. And now, let’s get clear for people who your typical client may be maybe multiple at this point, I don’t know, if you have a very, like niche focus on who you work with, and what type what your bread and butter service is for them.

Trevor Anderson 15:34

Yeah. So I mean, we work with a lot of different people, I wish we were more niche. My favorite kind of verticals are e commerce and b2b. And that’s really where I’m trying to focus us on. And when it comes to sort of the bread and butter approach, I mean, I really think it’s the promotion side. And that’s, you know, the biggest need I see right now, is there’s so many people that, you know, anybody can go and make, like Facebook ads, you know, you can boost a post. And so people have this perception that it’s not that hard. And you know, it, I wouldn’t say like, there are aspects of it, like going in and creating a campaign that are kind of easy, but it’s, it’s the cohesion between like, all these different channels we have now, there are many, there’s so many, the the user base of where people are today is so fragmented, with so many different communication channels. It’s like how do you integrate all of those together? Right? Yeah. And so our whole kind of like bread and butter services? How do we make promotions that are not just, you know, effective? And they’re driving results? But how are they multichannel? How are they integrated? And how are they personalized to people based on how they’ve interacted with your business thus far. And also doing that in a way that you know, what you’re getting out of it? Right? So I would definitely say like the digital advertising side, driving relevant traffic, and, you know, creating some sort of conversion out of that, whether that’s a sale or a lead. That’s really what that’s like the area we really try to focus in on. Big time.

Adam G. Force 17:06

Got it. So you are? So are you doing, like, the creative development of assets? Are you just managing the distribution strategy?

Trevor Anderson 17:19

Yeah, at this point, we’re really not doing much on the creative side, like if we’re with somebody, and they said, Hey, we really need this, like, I’ve got, I’ve got a great network of people that can do that. They’re like I said, like, we don’t do creative in house, we’re trying to stick to what we do best. So it’s really more like the implementation of that like structure. Right, that strategy on a high level?

Adam G. Force 17:40

Got it. Got it. And so have you done in the past year any work with startups? Or is it then? You know, maybe it’s companies who are more than five years old? Or, you know, whatever it might be?

Trevor Anderson 17:52

Yeah, I mean, I would say our sweet spot is kind of like, it’s sort of companies that are evaluate at the 50 employee range. A little bit on the on the medium side, we’ve worked with a few startups, the problem is a lot of the on the startup side, a lot of those folks don’t really have the budget yet to really do what they can. So with those kind of people, you know, we’ll come in sort of like in a consultation level one sort of say, you know, let’s, let’s help you try to build a team that can do these things internally, or, you know, what are some some helpful ways that you can sort of get off the ground. But when it comes to more like, day to day management, and really doing those things, like done for you services, we stick in that kind of middle area?

Adam G. Force 18:35

Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. So I guess at this point, I’m curious, where you see the business going, in the next, you know, 12 months or so?

Trevor Anderson 18:48

Yeah, well, I think my biggest problem when I was younger, and, and just trying to build the businesses, I have, I have a almost kind of like a perfectionist syndrome, I guess, where I really want i the urge to want to put my hands in all the different cookie jars and, and, you know, keep my hands on things. And my last business really saw that kind of hurt it right, because I was spreading myself super thin. Yeah. And so this time around, I’ve really tried to focus more on finding experts that can do the things that we want to do. And so I have, I have some really great team members that, you know, I’ve just really tried to empower and let them do what they can do, and let them do it best. And, you know, I think it’s important to remember that you know, the best people for your business, you don’t have to motivate them, they the best kind of people that are going to work for your company shouldn’t have to be motivated. They should be motivated to do a good job. And if you’re trying to motivate somebody, I just think that’s the wrong way to manage them. So I’ve really tried as we’ve grown, to just sort of let go of the reins and let those people do what they do best. And so I’m just Trying to keep doing that putting the right people in the right places as we scale up, and just continue to deliver on our promise. Right. So, again, I’m trying to do it slowly. And we have some, some really great case studies that have come out of that, getting a lot of press and media coverage in Miami because of that, because we got some good work going out. And I think if we keep doing that, and we just keep it kind of steadily, steadily, steadily growing, that could really take us to a great spot. But like you said, I’m in it for the long haul, right? I’m not trying to find some secret shortcut or whatever. Those don’t exist.

Adam G. Force 20:36

Yeah, exactly. They don’t exist. Everything is a build up of lots of small steps, not just one big step. Right. So, yeah, and you know, and when did you know you were ready to hire your first employee?

Trevor Anderson 20:55

Yeah, I think I think it was really ready. I tried to kind of pull them in on something where I knew I could test them enough to sort of see if it would work. And, and also sort of create a job for them. So there have been, there have been times where like, financially, I was, like, Man, this person is awesome. I really want to pull them in, I’m not sure if I can, and I kind of throw it out there and be like, Look, there’s, there’s this opportunity here, I can’t pay you right now. But if we can, we can find a way to pull you in on it, right, and you can kind of almost build that job out of what we’re doing together. That’s actually worked for me a few times where like, we’ve been able to sort of build that ideal position out of just an opportunity, or even just, you know, working on one account and just kind of pulling them in, ya know, I think I think it’s really, you know, the moment you know, somebody’s ready to kind of take that step with us. they’ve proven themselves not just by like, you know, coming in an interview and having the right credentials or whatever, but actually doing the work they say they can do.

Adam G. Force 22:00

I think that’s smart. I think that’s smart. And you hear that too, a lot. And I’ve always, you know, felt the same way. I’m like, What do you really know about somebody? Just from an interview, besides your maybe you can connect with them? Maybe not? Maybe they’re just a good interviewer? I don’t know. You know, I’ve now worked with a lot of people do our own business, whether you know, it’s not even for hiring but partnerships, different things. And, you know, you really get to know someone by working on a project. So hearing you say that, I think anybody listening, anytime you can get someone to test the waters for a month or work on a project, I think is absolutely critical, especially when it comes into understanding. Are they reliable? That’s like a biggest thing for me. Are they really? Do they do what they say they’re gonna do? Are they on time? Like, those things drive me nuts?

Trevor Anderson 22:54

Yeah, well, I think the other big part of that too, is there’s, there’s this certain kind of, like, breed, I don’t know, there’s, it’s like this special kind of person. That just they are so they got dreams, you know, like, they really have ambition to go do something and there’s just this like fire. And sometimes you find those people and you got to grab them. They’re really rare. And it’s kind of a goal at our company. There’s, there’s our mission is not really like drilled down into sort of like that corporate typical structure, we actually just have a quote, it’s one of my favorite quotes. It’s, I don’t know if you know, T. Lawrence’s but his quote is all men dream, but not equally as a dream at night and the dusty recesses of their mind wake up to find it was all vanity. The dreams of the day are dangerous men for they may act on their dreams with open eyes to make them possible. So that’s my favorite quote. And I want I want dreamers on my team. I want people that are dreamers of the day that have really big goals. And if me as an employer could help them accomplish those goals, that would make me feel like my life had a lot of really great purpose. Yeah, that’s sort of my goal.

Adam G. Force 24:06

Interesting. Yeah. That’s a cool quote. I haven’t heard that. Who was it? Again, I want to write down.

Trevor Anderson 24:11

It’s T. Lawrence. It’s, yeah, it’s one of my favorites.

Adam G. Force 24:14

T. E is an Edward?

Trevor Anderson 24:16

Yeah, it’s Thomas. Edward Lawrence. I think I could totally butcher that. But I just know the T part.

Adam G. Force 24:23

That’s cool to get started. So I’m curious. You know, we all kind of have our failures, like what I mean, it could be losing a client from money breath. It could be, it could be other things to a bad hire. It could be the execution of a project in the wrong way. Anything stand out to you. I mean, we’re all human. So maybe we can get some dirty laundry out here from you about a failure to make us all feel like you know, we’re not alone.

Trevor Anderson 24:55

Yeah, no, I think that’s such an important question asked like what I was When I was starting to sort of dabble with the idea of entrepreneurship, I spoke to a lot of people that I grew up with, like parents and business owners I knew. And I knew that the failure component is so important. I think it’s through a lot of them off, because I would ask them like, hey, what was your biggest failure? And I learned so much from that, first, I learned that people are lying. If they say they don’t fail, I fail all the time. Yeah. And it’s the big thing with failure is how you bounce back from it. So I’ve done I’ve had failures where I was like, Oh, this is it, you know, there’s no coming back. For example, one that comes to mind is I had a probably the biggest client opportunity that I had had at that time. And at the moment, I was managing, like all of their PPC spend and stuff like that. And Google had like, rolled out this update where it would double spend, if it thought it could optimize for conversions. And so it ended up spending, like, I think it was, like $20,000 over their budget, or something like that. It was absurd how much money it’s been over. And obviously, like, the thing that was funny, it kind of ended up working out for them, because they got leads out of it. But I was like, they were so upset, right? Because I mean, we just we totally blew it. I mean, it’s like unprofessional, and everything like that. And you know that it kind of gave me a feeling of like even imposter syndrome. I’m like, man, should I really even begin this? Like, how did I mess up that bad? I mean, that’s the thing, like, we’re all human, right? Like everybody, everybody has those mats up. Like I say, you just gotta you gotta take those things in stride. And you got to learn from them. And you got to not make that same mistake again, right? So if you make it twice, then it’s not a failure, you’re just an idiot. If you fail once, that’s okay. And that’s the other thing too, like, you gotta understand, like, a lot of people don’t have an employee, you fail. And they fire them. And it’s like, you got to understand, you know, just like you fail, they fail to, yeah, you got to empower them to learn from that mistake. And sometimes, you know, that’s moving what they’re doing, or, you know, the solution isn’t just to fire that person. All right, you got to give people chances. And when you do, and you’ll find that a lot of people will bounce back from that. So…

Adam G. Force 27:20

Yeah, yeah, I think you nailed it, man. I mean, you know, we kind of learned that failing is a bad thing throughout school, right? Oh, you fail. That’s terrible. Yeah. Now, you can’t do this, you can do that. And it’s kind of this like, subconscious cultural thing. And I always say that the idea that failing is bad as a bad idea. But like you said, you know, you have to learn from it. If you’re the dodo, that makes the same mistake over and over. Well, that’s on you. But yeah, those failures are, it’s, it’s just that inevitable part of the process, like you can’t I mean, okay, you can go on and on, and look at all these famous people from Michael Jordan to Steve Jobs, or even Milton Hershey, they failed more than anybody.

Trevor Anderson 28:10

Yeah. Big time.

Adam G. Force 28:12

You know, whoever fails the most, tends to be the most successful.

Trevor Anderson 28:16

Yeah, and you’ll notice those people, they’re not scared of failure, either there. They’re the kind of guys that, you know, you’re gonna run through that, that glass ceiling, and they might get cut on the way, but they’re gonna do it.

Adam G. Force 28:27

That’s it, man. I mean, it makes a huge difference. And that just comes down to perspective. So, you know, I think a lot of people get nervous about starting a business because, oh, there’s a lot to it, right? If I look back at Change Creator of past four years, or I look at it, and if someone told me, this is all the stuff you’re gonna go through, I probably been like, hell no. I mean, oh, my God, just so much stuff. And I’m sure you bend down the same same road of just figuring things out. So those are the early stages. I think there’s like that tipping point of trying to establish revenue streams. So I’m curious, like, it sounds like to me, you did it right. Meaning you started even your first business with your buddy in college, and you just went in? And you guys were focused on creating a revenue stream right out of the gate, right? Sure. And I feel like a lot of entrepreneurs really start businesses and they’re like, I’m gonna do this podcast, I’m gonna, I’m gonna create this blog, and they have no real plan for monetization and making money. They’re just doing stuff that they think they should be doing.

Trevor Anderson 29:37

Yeah, I mean, I think that’s super true. I mean, just just to people that are looking to even start a business. I think there’s two types of individuals. I think there’s one person that is scared to make the leap, which was kind of me. I was like, oh, man, this is, you know, I’m too young to be an entrepreneur or whatever. Then I think there’s another type. It’s kind of like you I’m gonna be an entrepreneur and they don’t, they don’t really understand, okay, what does that actually mean? And it The reality is not attractive, right? Like, you know, you may see people on Instagram or whatever and you know, they’re driving cars and whatever, like they’re just they’re living their best life. The reality is, I mean, it’s late nights, it’s working hard. It’s sometimes losing your sanity a little bit. And it’s, you know, receiving panic texts and calls or whatever. I mean, even today, like, just before the podcast, I had a text and call this morning, and we’re having this big issue, and I was like, Oh, my gosh, just while I roll over and turn my phone on, do not disturb, but like, you gotta, you know, react to that. And you got to, you know, sort of take that and enroll it. And that’s an answer reality like it, there’s no, like I said, there are no shortcuts. I hate all this, like, kind of get rich quick schemes and things like that. It sets people up for failure is like, Man, I’m not making it. It’s like, yeah, you’re not gonna make it in the first month. And it takes time. And you gotta, you gotta set like little baby goals for yourself, right? Like, it’s like teaching baby walk, like one step and then do this stuff. And when you set those little micro goals, and they start achieving them, they snowball on each other, right? And then all of a sudden, that’s building into a bigger snowball, and you just keep going, and keep going.

Adam G. Force 31:22

Yeah, I mean, we’ve noticed that a lot of entrepreneurs, essentially, we built up this magazine, and you know, it did well, we decided, like, we had to get another revenue stream, because magazines, just it’s not much. And we surveyed our audience. And one of the things we learned by getting on the phone talking to all these people, is a lot of entrepreneurs are excited, and they have this, this willpower to do what they need to do. And they’re masters of their craft, right, just like an artist is a master of their craft, but they don’t have the business skills. So now they’re just out there doing all this stuff. And they don’t have the business skills, and they don’t know how to communicate their brand, like their brand story and positioning and all these things. And this is a big gap for them. And that this is the number one thing that we saw that was causing them to struggle and fail.

Trevor Anderson 32:17

Yeah, I think I think branding is one of the hardest parts of starting something. I mean, I think that’s where people really go wrong. A lot of the times, I mean, even just like the day to day business side, like, you know, how do you do accounting? How do you you know, make sure you’re paying the right taxes, like all that stuff, right? Like, it could be a master your craft, but you got to you got to, you know, figure out all those other things. And the thing is, you just gotta people focus just on growing way too fast. You gotta keep your startup costs low. And the beautiful thing is, in the world of the internet, your startup costs could be so low. I mean, they really could like minus starting your LLC, or whatever. I mean, you’d be up and running on Shopify with like, 79 bucks. Yeah, yeah. You know, like you can, you can really go and start something out of nowhere. But like you said, you got to find a revenue stream, you got to find a need. And you got to build a brand. If you don’t have a brand, and a story behind what you’re doing. You’re not going to go anywhere, at all makes sure you listen, your podcast, he talks about story brands, and the story is important part. I mean, I totally agree with you just even listening a little bit. It seems like you really get to value that through.

Adam G. Force 33:31

Yeah, I mean, that’s, that is our bread and butter here is because and it’s because of that, that research we did with our audience and hearing that gap. And we’re like, no, our team me, Danielle, Amy, like, we all have tons of experience in branding, brand storytelling and things like that. And I do, you know, design and all that stuff. So that was an area, we were able to help people and we built up part of our business, a educational program around that for people. But I love branding and design. I love that kind of stuff. So let’s take a few minutes, because we’re almost at the 30 minute mark. But we’ll take a few minutes just to touch on branding, because it’s such an important part of the business. And I think there’s misconceptions around what branding really is, especially when we start talking about brand storytelling. You just mentioned that you think it’s critical part of the business. So tell me just you know, your thoughts about branding? You know, just off the cuff.

Trevor Anderson 34:25

Yeah, well, I think I think branding in its essence is responsible for leaving that first impression on the customer. Yeah. So, you know, back in, like the reptilian brain or whatever, you know, just like the very simple brain that we have, you know, there’s that immediate reaction to what you see the look and feel. You know, if somebody is trying to communicate to you that they are a luxury brand, and they don’t look at theirs like that disconnect, right? Yep. And so there’s there’s so much to that. It’s like you got to build culture. He’s in a look and feel with your offering, you’ve got to build that perception. Like, you have to know what that perception is that you’re trying to build, right? Like, you got to know, how do you want people to perceive your business? And what does it need to look like, and not just look but feel like, in order to really communicate that, and then beyond that, you gotta, you can’t just like be this empty vessel. Like, that looks pretty cool, right? Like, you gotta have some juice in there some story. And, and you gotta, you know, make that cool, and you don’t even like, that’s another thing, like, people always focus that guy that’s really good logo. And the colors gotta be on point. And all that’s great. Trust me, like, that’s awesome stuff. But, you know, you see companies out there that have kind of cheapo looking logos, and not really the best image overall look, but it’s because they’ve got such a rich story, right? People, they just get pulled into that. And so it’s important for people to really figure out like, Hey, what’s your story? And what are you selling people beyond just like your product, right? Like, what? What’s your what’s your, your goal? What’s the organization’s goal? Like? What are some of the things that you guys are doing outside of just the business? I’ll be overly promotional, and provide value outside of just the product you’re selling, whether it be content or whatever. So yeah, there’s there’s so much to it. It’s I love branding. It’s a personal passion. It’s fun.

Adam G. Force 36:23


Trevor Anderson 36:24

I designed all our stuff.

Adam G. Force 36:25

Oh, nice. Nice. Yeah, I found the same. I do a lot of this stuff as well. And yeah, you know, I only because I like it, I like to do it, you know, so there’s no way I would want to outsource if I can do stuff like that. Not that I want to spend all my time just doing those things. But I do see it as part of building brand equity, which does tie into, you know, generating revenue in the end, because, you know, everyone says, can you sell you could sell without a website? Sure. Is it easier? No, it’s not easier. But it’s like you, you don’t need a pretty website. You know, like to to do well, but first impressions do matter to people in this world. And I know, there was the Edelman report came out for in 2020, that Edelman report for 2019 came out. And it’s all about trust and business. And I don’t remember exactly the numbers. But I will tell you right now that a ton of people like more than 50% of people don’t trust brands. And when they don’t have a good website, and those times it’s they check out almost immediately because they lose trust.

Trevor Anderson 37:38

Me and that’s, that’s a big philosophy of ours. Like, it’s like where does that first interaction happens today, with customers. And for us, like we feel like that is most often going to be with the website, like the website is really at its core could be like your ultimate 24 hour a day salesman that speaks your brand’s assets, maybe even better that you could write. And so it’s so important that that website doesn’t just look good, that has, you know, a great user experience. And you really start to build trust and having like the right little nuggets of information, right like having persuasive copy, having great testimonials, you know, showcasing all these different things that make your business great. websites are so important. And yeah, that’s that’s really foreign on going to be the first time that somebody really gets to know who you are and what you’re about today.

Adam G. Force 38:33

I agree, man, I mean, it’s like the center of the hub, right? I mean, he got traffic around all the social media and all the other digital areas. And you know, we we used to talk a lot about doing sales funnels, and all these things. And obviously, we have all that stuff. And we kind of reframed it, you know, if you think about the door to door salesman is knocking on the door, and he gets to sit down and talk to you. So whatever you’re saying he can deal with the objections or whatever misconceptions you have, and all that stuff. And you can adapt the stories you’re sharing, right to talk about your products and whatever. in that conversation, you have an hour or whatever. But today, we don’t have that we have very little time. And we have this whole digital thing. So we started saying, instead of looking at it as a sales funnel, where we’re looking at targets clicks and conversions, we started calling it a digital conversation saying we’re not it’s no different than the door to door sales guy, but now we’re just digital. So what part of the conversation are they having where right and and now we’re just having we’re humanizing marketing a little bit, right?

Trevor Anderson 39:38

I really liked that. I might have to steal that from you.

Adam G. Force 39:41

I’m trademarking that man.

Trevor Anderson 39:44

That’s a great way of playing. I mean, it really it is and people’s attention spans are so so low today. You know, he really got to figure out how to how to pull them in and then yeah, like, how do you how do you tell that? What’s your elevator pitch right with you? Whatever you’re showcasing them.

Adam G. Force 40:02

That’s key man there. I just did an interview with Brendan Kane. He wrote this book hook. And he did like marketing work with people like Taylor Swift, MTV, like all these big players. And it’s all about how you only got three seconds to get someone’s attention and hook them. And then your story becomes, you know, very important, but you got to get the hook, you know?

Trevor Anderson 40:25

Yeah, I mean, that’s critical. It really is.

Adam G. Force 40:27

It is. It’s good. It’s good. All right, man. Listen, I’m glad we got to touch on some of the branding stuff. I think it’s important. appreciate you sharing some of your, your wins and your failures and stuff like that. It’s really good stuff that you’re working on. So I appreciate you jumping on here today.

Trevor Anderson 40:44

Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate you having me on. It’s been fun talking to you. I feel like we can do this all day, man. We’re speaking the same language.

Adam G. Force 40:50

Yeah totally. Hey, listen just in case, you know, we got some companies out there that want to check you out, you know, work with you or see what you got going on? Where do they where’s the best place for them to find you?

Trevor Anderson 41:03

Yeah, I mean, of course, they could go to our website, Andersoncollaborative.com. I like to point people to just go ahead and do a Google search, because we’re on a lot of different listings and things like that where you can actually see case studies and reviews and kind of paints like an overall larger picture of some of the stuff we’ve done. So if you really want to check us out, get to know us outside of what we talked about kind of the salesy side on the website. Just google search Anderson collaborative Miami, you’ll find a lot of great info on ourselves

Adam G. Force 41:34

Awesome all right there you have it guys Anderson collaborative check it out. They’re doing some good stuff here in sunny Miami. It’s been freakin cold the past couple of days.

Trevor Anderson 41:43

It has. They declared like a weather emergency which is funny because it dropped below 50. Apparently that’s a weather emergency.

Adam G. Force 41:50

It is in my world. Okay brother take care appreciate your time.

Trevor Anderson 41:57

Hey, you as well.

Adam G. Force 42:01

Thanks for tuning into the Change Creator podcast visit us at Change creator.com forward slash go big to get access to free downloads and other great resources that will drive your business forward.

Richard Lau: Choosing the Right Logo For Your Business

Listen to our exclusive interview with Richard Lau:

Subscribe to this show on Spotify  |  iTunes  |  Stitcher  |  Soundcloud

Does a logo really matter to the success of your business? We spoke with the founder of logo.com who is also a serial entrepreneur that has built and sold several companies to discuss. His name is Richard Lau.

About Richard:

Richard Lau has generated millions of dollars in revenue in the internet industry. NamesCon, his in-person conference focused on domain names, began as an idea in the fall of 2013 and is now part of the GoDaddy family. Resume.com is an online resume builder for millions of job seekers and is another of Richard’s recent successful exits, this time to Indeed.com. His current project is Logo.com – an AI-powered logo maker that has the ability to design a unique logo for your company in just a few minutes.

Learn more about Richard and his work at > logo.com

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Transcription of Interview

(Transcribed by Otter.ai, there may be errors)

Adam G. Force 00:03

Welcome to the Change Creator podcast where entrepreneurs come to learn how to live their truth, get rich and make a massive difference in the world. I’m your host, Adam force co founder, Change Creator and co creator of the captivate method. Each week we talk to experts about leadership, digital marketing and sales strategies that you can implement in your business and life to go big, visit us at Change Creator comm forward slash go big to grab awesome resources that will help drive your business forward. All right, what’s going on everybody, happy holidays, and welcome to the Change Creator podcast show This is your host enforce. hope everybody’s being safe and had a good Christmas, this is recording after the Christmas holiday. And, you know, we have the new year coming up just around the corner. So hopefully everybody is ready with their 2021 plans and are taking some family time here to enjoy some relaxation, and kind of catch up mentally after a very interesting 2020. You know, a lot of people thrived in 2020. And a lot of people didn’t, because of the unique circumstances. So hopefully, you guys were able to plan ahead and figure things out with your digital businesses so that you can continue growing and helping people. So we’re gonna kick this show off with Richard Lau. So he has a lot of interesting experience. And we’re excited to chat with Richard. So he has, he founded two really interesting companies and sold them. So he’s he’s founded and built and sold multiple companies actually. And so for example, one of them is my domain Comm. And the other is resume.com. And there’s a few others there. You know, he has a really interesting model, like a formula. And it’s it’s interesting to hear him how he kind of is growing these businesses and selling them and how he thinks about them. So this is going to be very valuable as you listen in to his strategies and insights. So aside from that, he also gives back because he is the executive director of water School, which is a charity focused on clean water projects in Uganda. So a lot of interesting experience here as far as business and otherwise. We’re going to dive into that in just a minute. If you missed the last episode, we didn’t do one over the over last week over the Christmas holiday. But we the last episode we did have was with cat leukoc. And she is an she is a lot of experience as a social entrepreneur and helping people create their social enterprises. So we talk about how to empower your social enterprise and make money. And we get into a lot of different details there. So there’s a lot of value in listening to the discussions around money and things like that, because there’s there’s common struggles for social entrepreneurs. Alright, so let’s get into this next episode. Don’t forget to follow us on Facebook, go to our Facebook page, follow us there. And from there, you can also find our button for our Facebook group so you can join a more intimate community, which is called Be Change Creator. Alright guys, that wraps it up. We’re gonna dive into this conversation with Richard. Okay, show me the heat. Hey, Richard, welcome to the Change Creator podcast. How you doing today?

Richard Lau 03:37

I’m doing fine. Adam. It’s really an honor to be here.

Adam G. Force 03:40

Awesome. Yeah, I appreciate you taking the time. I forget where you’re located.

Richard Lau 03:45

I’m up in Vancouver, Canada. So a couple hours north of Seattle.

Adam G. Force 03:49

Oh, Canadian. Yes. Two of my teammates there in Canada. I’ve been there once. No, twice. Maybe twice now. Have I been there twice? I think so.

Richard Lau 03:57

Oh, come back a third time.

Adam G. Force 04:02

Yeah, no it’s fun. It’s fun. I was out in Toronto and Kitchener and Waterloo or something like that.

Richard Lau 04:07

Okay. Yeah, back east. We call it Yeah. West coast is sunnier, more relaxed, you know, more outdoor focused.

Adam G. Force 04:15

Cool, cool. Cool. So, I know you got a lot of interesting projects that you’ve worked on, and that you’re now working on currently, like logo.com that’s a quite a domain that you locked in there

Richard Lau 04:30

I’ve been in the domain name business for over 20 years now.

Adam G. Force 04:33

And so you had that in your back pocket for a while?

Richard Lau 04:37

Yeah, you know, I’ve had a lot of fantastic domain names come across, come across my desk, and, you know, have bought and sold a lot of I’ve represented some, you know, and occasionally you have the opportunity to lock in a fantastic domain and, you know, so I’ve built up a small portfolio of fantastic names that I can see myself or business partner, or even, you know, my kids developing out one day as real businesses and logo.com was one of them. And, you know, we’ve sat on it for a number of years, and then about two years ago started to build it out as a real business. But, you know, we’ve had the idea of what we wanted to do when it percolating for, gosh, six or seven years.

Adam G. Force 05:25

Yeah, as I say, you must have gotten it a while. Because if you try to buy a domain like that, today, you’ll probably spend a million.

Richard Lau 05:32

Yeah, you know, we spent, we spent a lot. It was in the six figures. And but yeah, it’s, you know, yeah, if you were to buy it today, it would be worth it would be worth even more…

Adam G. Force 05:44

Why build a business, you just sell the sell the domain?

Richard Lau 05:49

Yeah, we, we’ve proven that with resume.com, that it is worth building a business around, you know, these category killing domain names. It’s kind of like eat your own dog food, right? I’ve been buying and selling domain names for 20 years. And, you know, the the, what we’re preaching is that it when you have a category defining domain name, it gives you a running start and gives you that extra wind in your sails. And you know, it, we’ve proven it, it does work. Resume calm is an absolute huge, you know, first hand example of taking a premium domain name, super premium domain name, putting building a business around it, office employees, the whole nine yards, and then exiting. Yes, we’re getting a lot more than what the domain name by itself would have would have been. So yeah, you know, we could sell, we could sell logo.com for a million dollars. But you know, why not build a business and sell it for 10? Or 20? Or 50?

Adam G. Force 06:50

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Richard Lau 06:52

And have a lot of fun and help a lot of people along the way.

Adam G. Force 06:54

Cool. Now, you created just to give people a little history, you created a resume.com? And you said you sold that to indeed?

Richard Lau 07:01


Adam G. Force 07:02

What was the process? Like? Like? Because here’s what I want to get a little comparison on the evolution of your process. So in a sense, what did you do for resume calm to build that up? You know, the overview there and sell it like the strategy? And then are you doing anything different here based on lessons learned with logo.com?

Richard Lau 07:21

Absolutely. Um, so really, you know, resume was our third, my third exit in in 15 years. So my first exit was an unmitigated disaster. You know, it’s like, you know, how do you become a millionaire, you start with 10 million, you know, you like when you, but we, I had a domain name business, registrar, and it was worth around the neighborhood of $4 million. Long story short, I merged it with another company, private equity. You know, they were doing some Enron accounting, and, you know, I end up with a severance, check my tail between my legs, and I come home, and everyone’s patting me on the back. So you know, you just come back from Silicon Valley. And I’m like, Yeah, do you have some money I can borrow? I’m broke. And so that, that that was the biggest lessons, you know, the the school of hard knocks, then we I built a domain name conference called names con, and that’s now part of the GoDaddy family. And that was, that was also that was a successful exit. And, you know, but it was a it was a fair deal. It wasn’t, you know, wasn’t life changing money by any means? Yeah. And then the resume deal. You know, now that we’re coming up on, you know, exit number three, so, now I’m familiar with, like, due diligence and data, you know, a data bank, and, you know, all the due diligence questions and kind of the process and putting your, you know, the your hat on in terms of like, what is a buyer wanting to see, what are they expecting? You know, there was, it was very little surprises in the, you know, 250 questions that they sent us to say, you know, where’s this? Where’s that? And so, you know, I actually did did a session at a one of my last in person conference, I went to back in January, almost a year ago. Yeah. And it was my, my session was on building for an exit, you know, so it’s like, when you’re building your business, what do you have? Or what thought process have you put in place, right at the beginning, having an exit in mind? Because, man, it can make your life so much simpler when you’re doing the due diligence responses that you were like, Oh, you know what, when I started this, I actually it was anticipating having to answer this question three years later, so you don’t have to go back and recreate or get confirmation letters. And so yeah, it was a good question. Like, what is the process? It’s been a building process of learning what buyers want to know, and preparing for that in advance. So it makes the process so much smoother.

Adam G. Force 10:10

Yeah, that’s interesting. What can you give an example? I don’t know, if you have something off the top of your mind of just the kind of question you might want to be asking yourself up front. So that you’re prepared.

Richard Lau 10:23

Absolutely. So, you know, when we’re building logo.com, you know, we’re obviously looking around where we’ve got it. It’s an automated AI powered logo maker. So basically, you come in, you put in your business name, you put in your slogan and put in a few keyword industry, and we generate hundreds of designs based on that, man. So that’s pulling in templates. It’s pulling in, you know, ai powered conversations of what design will look best, etc. But underpinning all of that are licensing, you know, so you have to have licensing for the fonts, you have to have licensing for any drawings or icons. Yeah. And so we were looking around at our competitors, and we’re like, wow, you know, they’re they’re doing that, and they’re doing that, and you’re like, how are they doing that? Yeah, they actually licensing that font properly, and I dig into it, and no, they’re not, they’re absolutely 100% blatantly copyright infringement. And you’re just like, wow, that’s not good. Because, you know, when they do go to sell, eventually, they are going to have a massive due diligence problem, they are going to, you know, because I can guarantee you that any purchaser, whether it’s a p firm, or it’s a dot design house, or you know, vistaprint or Fiverr, anybody who’s looking at a logo maker, and there’s a number of us online, and they’re looking at at this, they’re going to ask the questions like, have you always, when did you license this font that you’ve always, you know, what was the date of the license, what, you know, what is, what is the your product is sold built on, and they’re going to have a problem, because they’re, they’ve been around for a number of years. And for any customers that they’ve had up to the point that they, you know, corrected it and change their, their font. Yeah, they have a huge liability, because you’ve not sold, you’ve sold the logo to a customer that you didn’t have the fonts licensed for. And so if those customers ever get hit by the font owner, that’s not just the cost of the of the logo, they could hit you for the cost of branding, change of damage to their brand, and, you know, the the cost of, of having to update their website, letterhead, trucks, etc. as well as any damages that they need to pay to the font owner. Yeah, the chances of that happening. Sure, it might be slim. But if you’re a public company, and you’re purchasing a logo maker, and you’re asking them for their licensing agreements, and they’re like, well, we didn’t do any licensing agreements, we just stole fonts off, off offline, you know, that we found online, it’s just like, oh, my goodness, you know? So like, we know this, right. So from day one, before customer one, all of our licensing agreements are in place, you know, we we know what the questions are going to be. So it helps us be a better person, right, as a better entity, a better organized and ethical, because you know, there’s going to be accountability, there’s going to be a judgement day on that when that exit is on the horizon. That’s your judgment day somebody comes in, and they ask you every single tough question, and they look at every single skeletons in your closet. So don’t have any skeletons, you know

Adam G. Force 13:52

Got it, got it. Getting ahead of the game, being smart up front, I mean, all those legal things. You’re right, when you get to that you may coast for a while, but he gets to that exit and those opportunities, and I can see the headache now.

Richard Lau 14:06

Absolutely. And you know, it may not kill the deal, but it sure would, it sure would lower the price.

Adam G. Force 14:11

Yeah. Yeah. So tell me a little bit about I mean, you seem to have this process you’ve kind of created, it’s your own formula, in a sense. It’s like, get a great domain, you know, a great brand story, and a great company does start with that name, right. And it should say something about the business that the business is designed, like the essence, right. And these are obviously just very verbatim, you got logo.com resume, that guy’s like, you can’t really screw it up. You know? And so you get the logo and you are looking to you start with an exit in mind. I’m going to create a killer business. you’re leaning into AI and things like that. I love the formula. And I’m curious though. You’re you are though passionate about branding and things like that. But resume.com it’s not like you were passionate about resumes. So how did that play in for your personal experience?

Richard Lau 15:16

That’s it’s very interesting. And it’s easy to miss, right? It’s easy to say, Okay, well, look, you’re just building a resume builder. Yeah. And, you know, how boring is that? Right, and let’s just, let’s just get to the chase. But really, what, what excited me and got me, you know, just pumped every day, quite frankly, was the, you’re not just building, helping someone build a resume, there are behind every single resume, we had 4 million resumes built on our site shit behind every single resume as a person, and behind every person is a story. And what you’re doing is you’re reaching into this person’s life, and you’re giving them a helping hand. So you’re like, if when someone comes to came to our resume website, we want it to be able to say, Okay, look, by the time they leave, they are leaving as a better person in terms of a better opportunity, or they’re going to have a better chance of getting that job that they’re they’re applying for, you know, where that they’re going to leave whether they pay for our service or not, they’re going to leave better than when they arrived. And the change that we were actually able to see in terms of like high school students coming in, and then being able to have a better resume than if they were just like opening up a Google doc and starting with a blank page. And, you know, we’d see people build a resume when they graduate from high school. And then two years later, they build another resume, because they were at a university, and they were seeking like a TA position. And then again, when they graduated from university, and they’re seeking a professional, so you know, it was so cool to see this, these kids growing up on our platform, and seeing the jobs that they’re adding to the resume that they got, because they were using resume.com. And so it’s, you know, I have this life philosophy, which is basically simple, which is to be helpful, right? It’s just and that covers a whole noun, the whole aspect of positive attitude, you know, beneficial relationships, like how are you benefit being a benefit to your, to your, you know, close knit colleagues, friends, family, as well as to your extended network, as well as to your community, right? Because at the end of the day, it’s, you know, money is a tool, but life is about relationships. So it’s like, what, how are you being helpful in the relationships that you have with your customers? And so that that’s what we did with resume is what we did with the conference. And that’s what we’re doing with logo, you may not buy from us, but at least you’re going to be better, and hopefully have been helped by us when you’re when you come to logo.com.

Adam G. Force 18:08

Yeah, yeah, I checked it out. It’s pretty, pretty cool. I mean, I love the the dive you’re taking into leveraging AI. And I think it’s a really, it’s a great jumpstart for creativity for people. So I mean, I look at something like this, and it’s kind of like, where does someone begin in exploring AI capabilities? There’s got to be a pretty hefty investment in the, I guess, research on on developing that kind of tech.

Richard Lau 18:45

Yeah, Mm hmm. Yeah. And I think, you know, we’re still early days. So for us, it’s, you know, we know, from resume as an example, you know, we rebuilt the platform, gosh, three or four times, and each time, it looks pretty much the same to the to the end user, the you know, they’re coming in, they’re building a resume and, but on the back end, we’re like, starting from scratch, sometimes we were completely changing the entire back end language and then platform. And so with logo, we are able to, you know, we were able to plan it out. Much more in advance. Yeah. So we haven’t had to rewrite the platform, but we it is an ongoing growing entity. And we’re using all onshore developers, either in Canada or the US or the UK. And it’s more expensive for us, but we’re finding that we’re better able to communicate. And, and we’re just having, you know, we operate primarily on slack and Asana. And we’re, we’re able to communicate as a team faster. And it’s so important when there’s so much To learn, because, you know, we’re taking, we’re taking this branding conversation, right? The typical process would be a user needs to a customer needs to design a logo, and they sign up with either a freelancer or an agency. And they have a few dozen conversations back and forth about what it is they’re looking for. And so, you know, the challenge to the team is okay, guys, we these are the predictive conversations that that someone would have over the course of either three days or three weeks, with their designer or with their design team. We need you to put that into algorithmic conversations and have it AI based so that it it can go faster. Right. Yeah, it is like, Okay, tell me what you guys could do. Right? So I’m not an AI expert, but I can point at other things that that other people are doing and say, Look, they’re doing it, they solved it. You guys figure it out

Adam G. Force 21:06

Yeah, figure it out now. Do what they’re doing, but better.

Richard Lau 21:10

But I you know, so we we pose the problem, we can see that people are, are coming up with solutions, whether it’s in the local space or on other AI. problems. But yeah, it is a lot of work. Let me not. I’m not going to sugarcoat that. Oh, yeah, it’s a problem. AI is fun and easy. No, my guess is a lot of work. It’s a lot more work than just pretending and putting in scotch tape and, you know, 100 monkeys. So it’s, it’s, it’s a lot of work. And it’s not easy by any means. And we’re paying for that expertise locally. And yeah…

Adam G. Force 21:51

Yeah, yeah, I did some consulting for a legal team who’s doing some serious AI stuff to shake up and disrupt the legal industries, old, undisturbed ways. And we worked with a few agencies and went through all kinds of storyboards and stuff on the flows and everything I was helping with the branding and user experience of their app, and all that kind of stuff. And, man, once you get into that AI world, because it is, it’s all like the wild, wild west, in my mind, meaning you can really do almost anything, it’s just do you have the team that can figure it out, and like break the rules of what is now right and kind of be on top of all the latest technology or breakthroughs and things like that. And you’re right, it’s labor intensive, lots of meetings, lots of figuring things out, testing, man, it is it’s a lot.

Richard Lau 22:48

Yeah, yeah, it’s, it’s quite amazing. But it’s also amazing, then once you are able to solve some of these problems, you know, the ability to come in is, is going off a little bit off AI, but the ability to come in post the the information in, and then, you know, we were to the end user, it looks like we’ve just pulled all these designs out that we had pre loaded. But what’s happening in the back end is we’re spinning up 300, Amazon Web servers, having you know, you know, each one of these has multi threaded multi processor, they each have a conversation with various different API’s, and then return results. But, you know, really what we should be doing is like, okay, enter your information. Okay. In tomorrow, come back. And we’ll have a bunch of designs, but instead our texture, like, you know what, we can solve it a different way we can make it look instant. And so it is it’s instant, right? You know, we’re generating dozens of dozens and dozens of designs at a time to present to you but in our back end, where we’ve got these servers spinning up, they’re having these conversations to say, Okay, what, what font set? What font matching? What icon? how big should that be? should be on the right, left center? You know, what colors? Yeah, there’s all kinds of crazy stuff that’s going on. But it allows the user to kind of sit back and you know, call it like Tinder for logo design. You’re just like, No, no, no, no, no, I kind of like that one favorite. No, no, no. Yeah. Like that one favorite. No, no, no, no. Right. And then you get it down to your favorites list. And then you take a look and you’re like, you know what, I like that one, but I think the icon should be bigger, okay, with just click on it, make the icon bigger, you know, and so within 20 minutes, you should be able to walk away from logo.com with a logo. And that is like taking a three week process down to 20 minutes. it you know, we we’ve spent the money we spent the 1000s and 1000s of programming hours, that we are confident that people can do that. And

Adam G. Force 24:58

It’s huge, that’s a big impact. I mean, I like what you said about resume calm and how you’re helping people. It’s like, You’re, you’re injecting yourself in part of a process that, you know, like everyone says, right, you gotta find, find the pain point for people. And you really helped me make someone’s life easier by providing this type of solution, faster, save time, save money, all that kind of stuff. And I mentioned before, like, you know, these guys came up with a solution to say, well, we can kind of do it and make it look instantaneous. I love when tech guys have ideas that I never thought you could do that. Ah, yes, I love that. Right.

Richard Lau 25:42

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, no, we, we have a lot of fun. We do give our tech guys a lot of leeway in terms of being expressing their creativity, because this this is, this is a very interesting problem to solve for, right? You we approach it our visitors as if they’re asking us, hey, you know, Adam, can you design a logo? For me? It’s like, okay, yeah, let’s get it out right now. Right. It’s not a back and forth. And so, you know, our texts have to be able to just say, look, this is the problem, you guys figure out how to solve it. Right? We don’t handhold them in terms of like, Okay, well, I want you to program this. And I want you to program that and but it’s just like, what do you guys think? Like, let’s all like it. And we use this amazing service called user testing, calm, you know, no association, no affiliate here, just, and they do screen recordings of users going through your website and running into problems. And we don’t filter that we don’t like, Oh, we got a bunch of user testing. Here’s the report. And this is now text, this is not what we want you to guys to fix. It’s like, No, we all watch it. Because that is like gold, right? Every single person in the in the whole org watches, every single one of those user testing videos, because it’s, it’s important to know exactly what is it the user is experiencing? And it’s important for the text to know what it is that they’re delivering. Yeah. And how are people interacting with what they’re delivering? And it’s, you know, there’s no better way it’s kind of like, you know, was it called the Undercover Boss kind of thing, right? You want your, your your people dealing on the front line, even if they never have that experience? We have text doing jumping into customer service, right? Yeah, yeah, you know, and it’s like, oh, you know, I shouldn’t be in customer service. It’s like, we’re all in customer service. This is all about customer service. Right? So it’s like, it’s, we do things a little differently but as you say, it’s kind of lessons learned from resume and, and and other past businesses we built

Adam G. Force 27:56

cool. Yeah. When I love that kind of testing, you mentioned two Hot Jar does that kind of stuff with their recordings, I love those recordings. And like, oh, man, I could see like, certain, you know, funnel sequences working or not working, where people get stuck or page loads, get hung up and stuff like that. And there’s another one too, you probably get a kick out of I think, I am trying to remember, I might use it in a while. But I used to use it a lot with clients I consulted for, and it’s about a five second test. Okay, on usability hub. So basically, you get in front of all these people, and you can throw up your landing page or whatever webpage you want. And you do a five second test where it helps you optimize your design because you measure the recall and first impressions and what people see and are they getting? Are you getting across what you hope, like, I’m saying, and you can learn if it’s actually making the impression you think it is.

Richard Lau 28:54

Exactly that I mean, that that’s really that’s so relevant to logo design as well, you know, we people come to our site, and sometimes they’re like, Why are logo it’s very simple. I want this, you know, modified to include, you know, a flag and an eagle and a wrench for my, you know, plumbing service. And it was just like, you know, you’re overly complicating it because you’ve really got, you know, a fraction of a second to communicate your name. goodwill trust, professionalism. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, you know, a lot of people, if they go to a freelance designer, and the freelance designer is, you know, just trying to justify their rate, they’re there they over design it and they end up putting in too much stuff and there because the freelancer is looking at it, like my customer is the guy who’s paying my bill. Right? Yeah. Where’s really, what they need to do is like is is say to the guy who’s paying the bill, look, I’m the designer. You You got to remember that what we’re what the end goal here Is to communicate to your customer. So the customer is your customer? Not? Yeah, the the guy just paid the bill. So it’s it, you know, but you know, if you’re paying a freelancer, you know, 50 bucks to design your logo, he’s, he’s just like, I just want to make you happy to move on. He doesn’t really care

Adam G. Force 30:19

That’s it. He’s not trying to Yeah, he’s not trying to, to help you out. And then like, you know, give you all kinds of strategic advice or anything like that. Yeah. So I wanted to talk a little bit, if you don’t mind, before we get, you know, close the end here a little bit about logos and brands with you. So you kind of just started because it’s a segue, you kind of just started talking about keeping it simple, making it clear and understandable. You know, you’re buying domain names for 20 years or more. Tell me a little bit about what people should be looking for in a logo today. Right? Like, where your mind is that as far as a quality logo, because there is a lot of over complication, especially with domain names. For example, a domain name that is a common word, but spelled differently. And like, I always struggle with that, because especially as we get into more voice, you know, like Alexa and Google Home, like, they will confuse those things. Right. Yeah, so that’s, you know, I like to hear your thoughts on what makes a great logo.

Richard Lau 31:30

Um, so yeah, I mean, there’s two, two parts of that puzzle there, there’s what things make a great logo, and then what things make a great name. Yeah. So, you know, talking about logos, you know, if you look at the the trend right now is simple, clean, easy to read logos, you know, you look at canon, Samsung, you know, they’re they’re really just wordmarks, there is no, you know, canon doesn’t have a stylized camera that they’re pushing, they’re pushing canon. And so, you know, on the flip side, if you walk around your neighborhood, take your dog for a walk, or look around at like the the landscaping company, the local plumber, local electrician, you’re going to see overly stylized logos. And now, because as humans, you know, we have that, that mark, sorry, that that book, blink, you, you’re going to make a decision in the in the fraction of a second, when you see a logo, and you’re not going to know exactly why you’re making that decision. You just know it. And, and but if we you know, as a person who just lives and breathes logos, now, we analyze this, what you’re what you’re what’s happening is you’re seeing hundreds, if not 1000s of logos a day, and you are taking and analyzing those logos, and equating them to the size of the company, the longevity of the company, the trustworthiness, the professionalism, basically, goodwill. And so what you’re going to equate to right now is these overly stylized logos are equating to a small company, a, probably a one man show, that that may or may not have been around for very long, whereas the simple wordmark maybe a very simple icon. Those are going to you know, and the simple icon doesn’t have to mean that it’s not customized, but a very simple icon is going to have a an impression of a larger company more professional and that they know what they’re doing. And they’re not so you know, there’s definitely this trend to clean logos and I think that’s because it’s gotten so busy that you only have a half a second to communicate what is my company name that that you that you have to be able to just have the user focus on your name Yeah, not on the eagle and the wrench and the sink. You know?

Adam G. Force 34:17

Yeah, I’ve always been a fan of having the the lockup with like an image but it’s, it’s you’re right like the simplicity unless it makes sense. Like if there’s real rhyme and reason for it to be there. Otherwise, because I mean, there’s uses that are important and I I had a regret where we you know, we created Change Creator magazine, and we use the logo icon as the primary face of the magazine with the name very small. You know, and then I got a call from Shark Tank because Blake Mycoskie was going on there and they’re like, we want to show your magazine cover on the show and I was like, well, it’s amazing. I’m like, shit, I don’t have like my name spread across that thing.

Richard Lau 35:01

Whereas if your name is your logo, like come to logo.com we eat our own dog food.

Adam G. Force 35:05


Richard Lau 35:06

there’s no icon in our logo.com logo. Yeah,

Adam G. Force 35:09


Richard Lau 35:10

Right? And, you know, we we put a lot of time and effort and thought into what we what we should have as our logo. Because you know, if you’re, if your logo.com and you have a crappy logo, what are you doing in the business? Right? Yeah. So, you know, if you want to take a look at somebody, or a company that has spent more time than you can ever imagine designing a logo, come to logo.com. And you can see, simplicity is where it’s at.

Adam G. Force 35:39

Yeah, I like simplicity. No, for sure. So, yeah, and what was the other part of that, that we wanted to say? Say the logo, and then the, what the heck was…

Richard Lau 35:49

the naming, naming, so yeah, yeah. So you know, I see this a lot, and especially coming from the domain name business, you know, there’s, there’s things like radio test is that if I say, a brand name to you.com, will you be able to go over to your computer and type that in? Or, you know, if I if I’m saying Okay, yeah, it’s chatter.ai. Right. Yeah. And do I. So now you Am I asking you implicitly to remember two things. Am I asking you to remember that chatter has no e?

Adam G. Force 36:21

And it’s Oh, yeah, yes. So

Richard Lau 36:24

So those are what I call hacks, right? So if it’s an auto.com, it’s a hack. Okay. Well, and it’s not necessarily bad, right? But don’t do two hacks. Right? So if it’s going to be chattered on AI, then have it be the real word. chatter.ai. If it’s going to be chatter with no E, then it better be the.com. Because if you’re saying, hey, it’s chatter, dot.io. And there’s no e the guy’s like, What? Wait, what? Yeah, right. Yeah. And, and you’re gonna lose them. So, so you know, you can have one hack, but don’t have to. So, you know, feel free to drop the E. Lots of people do that. But stick then if you’re doing that stick with the.com

Adam G. Force 37:07

I agree. 100%. I mean, I, if you have to explain to someone, something like that, like, Yeah, when you do it, make sure you spell it this way. Like you you’re already setting yourself up for like a challenge. I’m not saying it’s impossible. There’s great brands out there there have done it, they crushed it, right, but he doesn’t make your life easier, that’s for sure. And, you know, like if I was going to do like, I remember I did a rain forest thing a while back years ago. It’s like an activist and I wanted to do something and I kept it instead of being like, the rain forest initiative bubble or whatever the hell like people do. I just said, I love rain forest calm. It’s like a statement that you believe in, you know, right. Keep it super simple and natural, you know? Yeah.

Richard Lau 37:52

Yeah. You know, there there are a lot of new non coms that are available. And might you know that that’s kind of like a, an open field to go for but you know, so again, if you if you’re going to go for a dot XYZ, don’t go for a three word.

Adam G. Force 38:09

Yeah, right.

Richard Lau 38:09

Don’t go for I heart rainforest dot XYZ, you don’t need to. You don’t need to worry. But you could go for you know, you could go for rain forest on eco. Yeah, right. or rain forest green or rain forest dot life

Adam G. Force 38:21

or logo dot XYZ, right.

Richard Lau 38:26

No, don’t do that.

Adam G. Force 38:26

Don’t do that.

Richard Lau 38:29

No, go for I heart logos all day dot xyz. And there’s E

Adam G. Force 38:34

Yeah.All right. Alright, Richard, I’m gonna let you go here. I really appreciate it. So obviously, people can find you. I know you got logo.com So guys, super easy. Go check it out, play around with it, get some creative ideas, do some business with Richard and team that doing some cool stuff. And also if you’re, you’re you’re listening to this, you’re not looking for a resume. So scrap that. But Richard, is there anywhere else people will find you Where’s logo.com? The best spot?

Richard Lau 39:06

Yeah logo.com. So Richard@logo.com or hit me up on LinkedIn. I’m a big believer in building, building a network in mutual mutually beneficial ways. So I’m richard@logo.com on on LinkedIn, easy to find.

Adam G. Force 39:18

Got it. Got it. All right, Richard. Thanks again. Appreciate your time.

Richard Lau 39:23

Thank you Adam.

Adam G. Force 39:26

Thanks for tuning in to the Change Creator podcast visit us at Change creator.com forward slash go big to get access to free downloads and other great resources that will drive your business forward.

Eric Partaker: Practical Steps to Transform Your Health and Wealth

Listen to our exclusive interview with Eric:

Subscribe to this show on Spotify  |  iTunes  |  Stitcher  |  Soundcloud

Have you ever felt like you can’t get out of your own way? How can we overcome old habits and step into a new version of ourselves for more success? This is exactly what entrepreneur and author of 3 Alarms, Eric Partaker helps CEOs and entrepreneurs do.

Eric Partaker is a CEO of the Year, Top 30 Entrepreneurs in the UK, Formerly Skype, McKinsey, Serial Entrepreneur, Peak Performance Coach for CEOs and Entrepreneurs.

Learn more about Eric and his work at > www.ericpartaker.com.

We also recommend:

Transcription of Interview

(Transcribed by Otter.ai, there may be errors)

Adam G. Force 00:00

And we are recording. Alright, so, three, two and one. Hey, Eric, welcome to the Change Creator podcast show. How’s everything going, man?

Eric Partaker 00:10

Going really well, thanks a lot. I’m excited to be here. And yeah, thanks for everyone who’s given us their time to listen, really appreciate that too.

Adam G. Force 00:20

Absolutely. Yeah, well, we’re gonna give them some juicy bits here and talk about some good stuff that will help their businesses. So, you know, before we get into it, I always like to know, I mean, everyone, you know, we tell a little bit about the history and stuff, but I kind of want to share Well, what’s happening most recently in your world these days? What are you focused on? what’s what’s the drama, The exciting stuff?

Eric Partaker 00:42

Yeah, well, okay. So, on the drama front, one of one of the most challenging things I had to deal with recently, I mean, I’ve done a lot of different things, you know, I’ve been a consultant help build up Skype, and it’s early days, and, and then I built a chain of restaurants here in the UK. And, sadly, the whole thing, you know, after 15 years of work with, with COVID, the whole thing went into bankruptcy, because just 00 sales, zero revenue environment, and cash eventually runs out. And so so that, that was, that was a big blow. And, you know, it took a while to kind of come to terms with that, but it also in a weird way, was easy or easier to come to terms with, because there’s little you can do, right, and so when it’s kind of totally outside of your control like that, then it somehow does make it you know, easier. But on the upside on the other side of the equation, you know, I was just on the board of that company. And, you know, my main focus right now is helping entrepreneurs, leaders, you know, CEOs just, you know, do do a much better job at just, you know, closing that, helping helping them helping them scale up not just you know, the the entities or the things that they’re working out, but helping them scale up themselves as well. So helping them become kind of like better people at the same time. And that’s, that’s what I do, you know, my day job now I work with, with with individuals and their organizations. And so that’s been very exciting. And the other exciting thing is I just wrote a book. So just read a book called The three alarms, out on Amazon. And that’s essentially a guide into how to close the gap between kind of your current and your best self.

Adam G. Force 02:56

Ah, I love that. Cool. And was there a particular inspiration for, you know, taking on the, from what I hear from a lot of other people in my network, the challenge of writing a book?

Eric Partaker 03:12

I mean, it is very challenging. Yeah. I, I had the benefit of somebody who helped me with the whole process and, and the whole thing. His name is Jeff Goins. Great guy. And he did, he did demystify it for me. And it’s like anything, though, it’s, you think it’s hard to do it? Right. So it’s like my seven year old when I said to him four weeks ago. Okay, so let’s take the training wheels off your bike. Yeah. And he was like, Ah, no, he’s like, that’s not gonna work. And sure enough, what happens? You take the training wheels off. And suddenly his face just lights up, because after the second or the third attempt, he suddenly go in for, you know, a good like, three seconds. Yeah. And what seemed impossible suddenly becomes, you know, possible. So it’s like, that was written a book as well. Right? So it’s like that way, everything.

Adam G. Force 04:18

Pretty much, you know, it’s funny, you bring up something, you know, with family, and, you know, my wife and I had a baby back in April. So he’s just over seven months, and he’s getting to that point where he’s like, trying to stand up, right. He’s like, climbing up like with his hands on the couch and getting up on his feet. And for the past several weeks now I watch him stand up, fall down, stand up, fall down. Sandell Hold on, and it’s just such a prime example of what you’re talking about. You’re not thinking about, oh, you know, I failed. It’s too hard. I’m just not going to do it anymore. Right. And you just keep going. He’s not even thinking about it so innocent, you know. And it doesn’t matter how many times he falls down sooner or later, that habit that constitency of him doing it every day, he gets better, he gets stronger. And next thing you know, he’s running right?

Eric Partaker 05:06

Totally. Yeah, exactly. It’s like that for like, literally everything in life. And, and so if there is anybody listening who is thinking about writing a book, and you’re like, I’ll get around to it someday, or I think it’s so daunting. A book gets written by doing the number one most important thing sitting down to write. And, yeah, if you focus on that on a daily basis, it gets done eventually, you know, you just focus on continually starting and the finishing takes care of itself.

Adam G. Force 05:36

Yeah, I’ve gotten a little obsessed with the idea of habits. And just doing small, attainable habits every day, every week, whatever it might be, consistently. And when you do that, it just slowly chips away. Same thing with the book, right? You’ll just slowly it’ll get there sooner or later, you just got to consistently put the effort in. So it’s awesome that you put it together, you got it done, it’s out. So congratulations on that. So let’s talk a little bit about it. I mean, what so let’s just like in a nutshell, let’s just we’ll break it down. But in a nutshell, what is the intention of the book for, say, the people who are listening to this podcast? What do they get learning from it?

Eric Partaker 06:21

Well, I like to think of it this way, if I had a magic button, and I went around the world, and I said to every single person, look, if you press this button, you’ll instantly become the best version of yourself. Is there anybody on the planet? Who would press the button? Right? It’s like, everyone, yes, a regard. And I think this is our one universal faith, regardless of you know, religion, or spirituality, or geography or age, I think the one thing that unites us all is a desire to unlock our potential to become all that we’re capable of being and to become the best version of ourselves. And so if that’s a universal desire, the book then starts from Okay, well, if we all want this, what’s the issue that, you know, it’s not, it’s not the desire, we all have that. And we want to do that. So the issue is more how, you know, how do we do it? How do we navigate, you know, the up and down terrain of, of life. And so the book presents three house, if you will, okay. So how to how to step into being your best to the power of identity, how to optimize yourself for action, through increased productivity, and how to get much better at handling the unexpected, by building your anti fragility, so identity, productivity, and anti fragility, IPA, like the beer but better for you.

Adam G. Force 07:54

So I know, you can handle the unexpected based on your restaurant story that you just just gave me. Let’s before we get into that, I want to talk a little bit about productivity, because it’s popular for people. Now, you you’ve been, you know, reading your biography here, you know, as a CEO, coach, mentor, you’ve got a top 30 entrepreneurs in the UK, you know, all kinds of, you know, recognition, right. So you’ve done a lot. And I’m just curious, what have you learned about productivity from your experience over the years? Right, so can you tell us a little bit about that the evolution of yourself?

Eric Partaker 08:39

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So first, it starts with the fact that I used to be the world’s worst procrastinator. Yep. And I mean, I would sit down, and within five minutes, I’d be distracted working on something else, I’d sit down, be trying to focus on something, I feel this, like, insatiable desire to have to move and do something else. And it was just awful. So all of my success came at, you know, I have a heavy price and with a lot of a lot of pain. And there’s a handful of things which I implemented, which I talked about in the in the book, amongst other things that have had a profound effect in my experience, and in the experience of, you know, the people that I coach and so what I’ll what I’ll get people listening is three powerful routines. And of course, there’s more here, but you know, these are three things to run with. So, one is recognizing that a productive day doesn’t begin the day out, but it begins the night before was getting eight hours of sleep. Yeah. And if you get less than eight hours asleep, your studies clearly demonstrate that you’re going to be more prone to distraction You’re gonna have trouble focusing at some point, probably be a bit more irritable and anxious. All things which don’t bode well for productivity. Yeah. And so the way that we protect our eight hours asleep is by launching a campaign against all of the artificial light that really shouldn’t be going into our eyes so late at night, because when the light from your phone, from your TV, from your tablet from your laptop, when that gets picked up by the eyes, it goes into, literally gets picked up at the center of your brain by a gland called the pineal gland. And then that gland then says, Oh, it’s still daylight out. So we’re going to start producing melatonin. And your melatonin production drops by 50%. You need melatonin to sleep well, it’s a sleep inducing hormone. And so the first routine to implement is what’s called a digital sunset. And it says simply means all the electronics go off one hour before bed, so that you can go to sleep with a brain full of melatonin and actually get the eight hours of rest that you need. The second thing is, how do you start your day in the morning, and most people start their day me included in the past now these days anymore, but they start their day in reactive mode. And what I mean is that they’ll start their day, typically in their inbox on social media, looking at the news, they might do this on the way to the bathroom, while they’re still in bed on their way to you know, have some coffee. And this really damages productivity once again, because it puts you into this scatterbrained kind of, you know, state, and instead, what I would encourage people to do, and you’ll experience a huge shift in your productivity, if you follow this is just to start the day, focus on being creative, rather than being reactive. And by being creative. I mean, you know, work on one of the top three most important things that you know you should be doing, but that you haven’t provided any time for yourself to do. Yeah, and if you just do that, for the first hour of the day has a huge impact on the rest of the day. And then the last routine I’d recommend people install is the routine or the habit of single tasking. We lose 28%, on average of our workday to the inefficiency that results from jumping from one thing to the next, start working on a presentation in your inbox, you reheat your coffee, go back to the presentation, you answer the phone, you answer an email, go back to the presentation, suddenly, the hours up, you look back and be like I only worked 12 minutes in the presentation. So 28% loss of the day, means that if we extrapolate that to the working weeks within a year, that means that the average person there’s loses 13 weeks a year to jumping around on stuff, the inefficiency that results from doing that 13 weeks a year, that means the average person is losing an entire quarter every year, they’re playing with three quarters in their year instead of the full four. So of course, they don’t feel productive. And if we extrapolate that across a 40 year career, the average person loses a decade. What could you do with an extra decade? That’s like two extra careers there? Yeah, so. So we get better on this last routine by really focusing on single tasking. And that’s, you know, phone out of sight off, don’t have 17 browsers open, you know… Don’t if you’re working on a document on your computer, put it in full screen mode, just eliminate all of the distractions, and really catch yourself and focus on I’m going to work just on this for 30 minutes, just on this for 60 minutes. I’m not going to jump around to anything until that block of time is done. And when you do that, you can reclaim that missing quarter every single year.

Adam G. Force 14:03

Yeah, wow. I mean, that’s a lot of time that you miss out on I you know, and I I’m one of these people to where, you know, several years ago, you know, starting my first business I was I was all over the place and I know exactly what you mean, when you sit down. It’s it’s the I always talk about the cringe list, which is like things we don’t necessarily want to do but have to be done. And yeah, it’s like sitting down to do that presentation. But you end up like doing, you know, some something else that you enjoy doing. And, and you’re easily distracted. And I see you know, through our our captivate program, we have a lot of students that come through there, and it’s the same story because we have all these ideas. There’s so much stimulation coming at us throughout the day, and work on someone I spoke to once before put it really well. They’re like, You’re like a dog who sees a squirrel and you chase the squirrel, right? It distracts you and you run after it. It’s like There you go. And I know this is a major pain point for a lot of entrepreneurs and something I had to work really hard on. And I still continue to always work hard on his discipline. And you can’t have discipline if you don’t have focus, right. So the things you’re talking about, I think, are instrumental to nurturing that focus.

Eric Partaker 15:23

100 100%. And the more productive days you can string together, you know, the more focus that you have, the happier, more fulfilled, you’ll end up being because you’ll be achieving the things that you you you want to be doing. You know,

Adam G. Force 15:39

That’s it. That’s the bread and butter, right? It’s like, you have something you want to do. You got to have a you know, I think Jim Rohn put it, I think it was Jim Rohn. He said, You can struggle through the discipline, or you can struggle with the regret.

Eric Partaker 15:54

Yeah, so pick…

Adam G. Force 15:55

Pick one. Yeah, I mean, cuz it’s hard it mean, we’re all human, right? Not ever, you wake up at four 430 in the morning, and your emotional side wants to hold you back. And your logical side says, This is what you need to do in order to become the best version of yourself that you want. Right? So you have to you just got to make these decisions and stick with it. But we all struggle with that. Right?

Eric Partaker 16:22

Yeah. 100% and that, you know, that’s a good segue to another area that I cover within the book, which is about identity, young kids. If If you can bring more intentionality into your life and and say this is who I want to be, you’ll, you’ll suddenly tap into the power of behavior following you know, identity and what I mean is that we get to choose you know, as a kid if I if I give my seven year old was talking about Leo before my seven Yeah, if I put a spider man costume I don’t need to tell Leo then. Okay, this is what you should do next. I put him in the costume. He doesn’t need training, he doesn’t need instruction. Immediately he’ll start shooting webs from his wrist jumping around and making funny noises. Right? Yeah. So and we all have this this superpower you know, as kids we you put the superhero costume on and behavior follows identity it just we just we become that person. And so I do this on the three most critical fronts of life every single day, the three most important things people you know, are are consumed, you know, with her about his their health, you know, their wealth and I don’t mean like turning into a billionaire I just mean you know, having the wealth and the means that provide you with the life that you want. Yeah. And, and our relationships, health, wealth and relationships, also the three most search topics on the internet. Right, so So I took that as a as a guide, and I chose and created a superhero identity on each of those fronts. So something a phrase that represented me at my best and then I put that into my phone and time that identity to go off to show at the time of day that would most benefit from being powered by that superhero version of me so at 6:30am the first alarm goes off it says world fitness champion because that’s me when I go into the gym I it’s that version of me right? At 9am next alarm goes off world’s best coach to remind me how to show up for my clients and at 6:30pm most powerful alarm of all goes off for me it says world’s best husband and father to prompt the question How would the world’s best husband and father walk through that door right now? Yeah, so by bringing that intentionality into play, I you know, I have something to shoot for right and something to measure myself against. And, and it just changes the way I show up on on those three fronts.

Adam G. Force 19:14

So good way to trigger that because you know, we don’t we we can think about these things, acknowledge them, even write them in our journals. But as the days go by, if we’re not reminding ourselves, we may not show up that way, right? We we forget or we we digress in some way to old behaviors. I love the idea of triggers like that. And and the I wrote down what you said, I think this is a great quote, behavior follows identity, right. So to become that person, you know, we as people fight, fight, fight to do stuff with their business, their life, whatever it might be. They start realizing that they have to become a different person. And you have to take these steps to do it. And the first thing is to what does it feel like to be that person and remind yourself, so I love the identity strategy that that’s pretty cool.

Eric Partaker 20:11

Exactly, exactly. And it’s all about making this stuff. Like super simple and, you know, easy to, to apply. And I think people need less theory more kind of like, practice. Right?

Adam G. Force 20:24

Yeah, I think that I’m glad you said that. Because it’s true. I mean, you can you can read a lot of books from guys like Robert Kiyosaki and others, you know, say someone’s trying to get rich, whatever it is, there’s a lot of theory, and it’s inspiring, and it can give you some perspective shifts, but there’s not a lot of practicality and, you know, anecdotes or steps you can take, you know, to start doing those things the right way, right, you’re kind of left to figure it out on your own.

Eric Partaker 20:53

Totally, totally. So, so and so in, in, in the book, I take people through lots of practical tools to help them, you know, step into being their best on the identity front, improve their productivity. And, you know, we didn’t, we didn’t talk about it much, but there’s loads of tools in there about building your anti fragility as well. And just, you know, as a wrap up point, as a thank you, for anyone who’s listened all the way up to this point, you know, like, seriously, big thank you to you. And, and if you head over to my website, as a as a thank you additional Thank you. I’m glad to gladly give you caught a free digital copy of the book. So if you just head over to Ericpartaker.com. And you could pick up a free digital copy of the book. And there’s also some free training and worksheets to help you embed some of the some of the concepts. So if you’re listening, and you want to take any of this stuff a little bit further, go a little bit deeper. There you go. And we’ll welcome you with open arms.

Adam G. Force 22:17

Yeah, me, and we’ll have the URL in the show notes, you know. And Eric, you know, but we got a couple minutes. Before we wrap up. I also just want to kind of touch on that last part that we didn’t talk about too much. Just real quick. Give me a little insight on that, was it fragility? Is that you said?

Eric Partaker 22:35

Anti fragility? Yeah. So Nassim Taleb, he wrote a great book called anti fragile, and basically, what so when you ask the average person, what’s the opposite of fragile, don’t say something like robust or resilient. And it’s not really the opposite, you know, so fragile, if you’re a fragile person, you get ahead a few times you break if, if you’re a robust person, you can take more of a beating, but eventually, you know, still break. If you’re a resilient person. Well, definition of resilience is simply that it absorbs shock, and it stays the same. So anti fragile means the more you get hit, the stronger you become. I say, and, and that’s where we want to get to, that’s where we want to be playing. And people people may think, Well, yeah, but Okay, now we’re getting all theoretical, this, this isn’t real. But you’re dead wrong. Because every single person listening right now, all of us, our bodies are like the perfect Temple of antifragility. So what I mean is that you stress a muscle and it causes it to grow. Right, you expose the body to germs and bacteria builds the immune system. So you’re already anti fragile. You just need to get what’s naturally going on in your body, which isn’t intelligence in and of itself, right. And you need to get that into your head into your mind consciously because it’s happening without you even realizing it subconsciously. And the way we do that, you know, that the top tip I’ll give people is simply to reframe stress, it starts there. There’s loads of other tips in the book to build on that. But at the Foundation, it’s reframing stress. And what I mean by that is that stop pursuing, stop stressing yourself out by pursuing a stress free life and exactly and instead, realize that stress builds strength. And in the same way that if you’re at the gym and you step towards a dumbbell rack and you pick up a weight and you curl it and it you know, makes you stronger, every every challenge, you know, moment of adversity thing that doesn’t go your way. Turn life into one Big mental gym, all of these are being are like dumbbells or weights being presented to you. And you can either run away from them and then you don’t get stronger, you can step towards them. You know, grab hold complete, the repetition becomes stronger as a result, right?

Adam G. Force 25:15

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Partaker 25:17

So that’s where antifragility starts with the reframing.

Adam G. Force 25:20

Nice. Yeah, I love it. Man, I love I love all three topics that you’re hitting, because they’re so important. You know, we get really hung up on the tactics and the business skills. And yes, you need business skills, but they’re gonna be worthless if you haven’t mastered these fundamentals of productivity in different disciplines and habits and things like that. So that sounds like you’re offering a lot of good perspective shifts, but also practical steps people can take to start implementing them in a way that’s understandable.

Eric Partaker 25:52

Yeah, that’s the whole point. That’s, that’s what I was shooting for. So yeah, so yeah. Yeah. I hope that was useful.

Adam G. Force 26:03

It is it is. And I appreciate you taking the time to jump on and just kind of share your story with us. And, you know, I gotta get a hold. Can I get we get you for one more minute? Yeah, yeah. I just wanted to hear a little more on the, you mentioned the restaurants, they had a chain of restaurants. What was that all about? I mean, so you start, it’s more like several restaurants Like what? Like, what’s up with that?

Eric Partaker 26:29

Yeah, so I help build up Skype in it’s early days. And then this is going back like 1615 years ago. And then we had we sold to eBay for about $4 billion. And then after that, I was thinking, what to do next. And I was, you know, I live I live in London in the UK, but I grew up grew up in Chicago, even though I haven’t been I haven’t lived in the US for for 20 years. Yeah. And, and I thought, well, when did I have the most fun? And it was in the restaurant industry. And then I was missing Mexican food. So I decided to start a chain of, well, it was one restaurant, and then you know, eventually it grew into 12. And, and, yeah, and so I was just kind of following, you know, following a passion and did that for you know, well over a decade. So. So yeah,

Adam G. Force 27:28

That is a tough industry too, man and to do multiple restaurants. Kudos to you.

Eric Partaker 27:34

Yeah, it is. It is. Thank you. It’s very, very tough industry. But if you kind of pay tribute to what people find most important, which for me, it’s all about the flavor at the end of the day, and then you get rewarded.

Adam G. Force 27:49

Love it, man. Awesome. Well, listen, thanks again. Congratulations on all the great work and the book that you have out. Sounds like it’s gonna help a lot of people. So guys, you can pop on over to Ericpartaker.com. It’s spelled just like it sounds really. So pretty simple. Grab a free copy of the book. I mean, you have nothing to lose, but a lot to gain. Right, Eric, thanks again. We’ll catch you next time, man.

Eric Partaker 28:14

Thanks a lot. Appreciate it.

Adam G. Force 28:16

All right. Bye bye bye.

Adam, Amy, & Danielle: Seriously, What’s My Niche?

Subscribe to this show on Spotify  |  iTunes  |  Stitcher  |  Soundcloud

You might be surprised to find out that most entrepreneurs struggle with truly understanding their niche. Join the Captivate coaches, Danielle, Amy, and Adam for this roundtable discussion about a topic they get asked about over and over and over — do I really need to niche down? What is my niche?

Here’s what they will discuss…

— Why do you need clarity of self first?
— What is a niche and why do we need it?
— What does this mean to your sales?

PLUS so much more.

If you’ve been struggling to sell, to really find that core audience, you’ll want to pay attention to this discussion today.

Get more training at changecreator.com/gobig

We also recommend:

Transcription of Interview

(Transcribed by Otter.ai, there may be errors)

Danielle Sutton 00:03

Welcome to the Change Creator podcast where entrepreneurs come to learn how to live their truth, get rich and make a massive difference in the world. I’m your host Adam Force co founder, Change Creator and co creator of the captivate method. Each week we talk to experts about leadership, digital marketing and sales strategies that you can implement in your business and life. To go big, visit us at Change Creator comm forward slash go big to grab awesome resources that will help drive your business forward. Hey, what’s going on everybody? Welcome back to the Change Creator podcast happy to have you here for another episode. If you missed the last episode, it was with Trudy lebrun. And we talked about creating an anti racist business spin a big topic, obviously, with everything that has happened in 2020. And she has a lot of experience in supporting companies to kind of see where changes can be made. And I think you’re gonna get a lot out of this conversation. So if you missed it, it’s really powerful stuff. And it’s very important. So hopefully, you get a chance to circle back check it out. So for this next episode, I have myself, Danielle and Amy. So Danielle and Amy are both co creators of the captivate method, we are coaches, they’re one of our programs, and we’re getting together to talk about your niche. You know, it’s funny how so many people, you know, we start our businesses or we’re a few years in whatever your case may be. But we’re not really clear on what our niche is. Many times we think we are until we start digging a little deeper until we start realizing that we’re not getting the sales, or we’re not attracting the right people that we had in mind as our ideal customer, right? So we’re going to talk about why you need clarity itself. What a niche is, and you know why it’s important? And what does it mean to your sales, right. So if you’ve been struggling to sell and really, you know, attract your perfect customer, this is going to be a really important conversation for you to check in on. So we’re going to dive into that in just a minute. If you guys haven’t had a chance, stop by Change Creator, calm forward slash go big. We have a new training up there, you could check it out all about authentic brand storytelling. This is one that I took on myself, and I’m going to walk you through all kinds of really good insights that will be very valuable for you. All right. This is been my wheelhouse for the past 20 years in business, branding, brand, identity, storytelling, all these types of things. And when there’s some really powerful insights that I share about the industry, what’s going on the market, so I think you’ll get a lot out of that there’s just a lot of it. So just carve out, it’s about an hour, so it’s an hour within a QA, like some frequently asked questions at the end that we go through. And I kind of walked through all kinds of stuff. So check it out. It’s Change Creator comm forward slash go big, you’ll find it there. Alright, guys, we’re gonna jump into this conversation and talk about your niche. Okay, show me the heat. What’s up, everybody? So what are we even talking about? Today, we’re gonna talk about the infamous power of niche is something that we continue to talk about a lot internally here at Change Creator and with the captivate method, because a lot of students and people that we mentor and coach, they struggle with finding that niche, or a lot of times, they don’t realize they don’t have the niche. And that’s why they’re, they’re having a hard time with their messaging and having a hard time with connecting with their actual audience. So there’s a good example that I think Danielle has. So Danielle, maybe just a quick intro for yourself, and you could share that great story that you have

Amy Aitman 04:04

So much fun to have you here today, Danielle.

Danielle Sutton 04:07

Yeah. Thanks for having me. It’s super fun to hop on these lives with you guys. Always a blast. So, yeah, my name is Danielle Sutton. I’m one of the CO creators of the captivate method along with Adam and Amy. And yeah, niching is something we talk about a lot with our calculators, something I have a lot of personal experience with. And all of the people that I’ve coached over the years, it always comes up, right because as Adam said, it you get it’s something that you can really get tripped up on. If you’re feeling like you’re unclear about what to say or you feel like, you know, you’re being vague or wishy washy. It’s a nice problem, right? So, and it can go miles miles in terms of helping if you if you kind of talk it through and get clear and clear. So for my example, my personal example is when I started my company about seven years ago now, I really started with this idea. I want to Work with nonprofits. I had I ever worked for a nonprofit? No. Had I ever started my own nonprofit? No. But this was, you know, I was really passionate about social entrepreneurship, and using the power of business for good. And I saw, from my own perspective, like, wow, the nonprofit industry is, you know, ready to take this by storm, and like, I’m the one to help them.

Amy Aitman 05:27

I love that enthusiasm.

Danielle Sutton 05:31

Right. I mean, I was, you know, young and naive and hadn’t had seven years under my belt yet. So I thought this would be a no brainer, like no problem. And just because you see an opportunity of how you can help, if it’s not aligned, which is what we’re going to talk about, it’s not necessarily going to be the best fit. So what I learned through trial and error is that I was, you know, speaking about nonprofits integrating more entrepreneurial strategies, and it just kind of like, it was felt though, it just kind of didn’t land as well as I wanted, I wasn’t getting people, you know, coming to me excited, necessarily, I was just kind of like, roaming around talking about this. And, and it wasn’t until I started to talk more about my own experience as an individual entrepreneur, who, you know, didn’t set up a nonprofit, but was still using the same strategies and principles. I was a solo entrepreneur, once I started speaking more about my own experience, I was attracting those types of people. And we had really great conversations, I was able to create a lot more impact and connect with them a lot better, because I was also that person, right? And it just felt so much better. And they got a lot more value out of it. And I felt way more aligned. And I knew exactly what to share. And because I knew what their struggles were. So that’s kind of the first thing we wanted to talk about today is that that clarity of self goes a long way in in aligning and landing on a niche that’s going to really work for you. And so I you know, I still was doing the same type of work, but very specific for solo entrepreneurs, who were starting potentially for profit businesses and not not in the nonprofit bucket doesn’t mean the work they were doing was that different. But the messaging was totally different. And the path was quite different to get there. That’s a good story that gives a great example and it actually reminded me of the same exact thing you know, before Change Creator guys, I was trying to create hemp water bottles, and I tried to start a media page for like a Facebook page for like rain forest protection. And as I was right I was literally writing articles on rainforest like biodiversity, all these things and trying to become like really become an expert in that space. And it felt like something I was passionate about, because I hate seeing the rainforest destroyed. But it also like you said it didn’t feel like it aligned, right. So it’s something I chose, right? Something that I uncovered that was in line with who I was that that Kyra L. and I literally still have my old notebook. It’s like one of these small ones. I was writing so many notes traveling on the trains. And when I was working back in the day, trying to figure this all out. And I would have all these notes about going in, I didn’t even know what I was doing at the time, besides figuring myself out. And I called it self inventory. At the time, I was taking an inventory of my my skills, my passions, my gifts, like my values, like all these different things and trying to figure out how to like connect these dots. And then finally I came to this conclusion that I was leaning into the wrong niche based on who I was. And then it led me to Change Creator and it’s a complete reflection of who I am.

Amy Aitman 08:05

That sounds like a lot of coaching that we do in the captivate method is like, let’s get you really clear on who you are, and who you can serve the best because all of us social good leaders and social impact people guess what we want to help everyone, right? We want many people as we want. Yeah, so many people that come to us have big ideas, they want to create movements, they want to create serious change in the world. And we love that we want you guys to go viral. We want you to guys to have your big ideas. We want everyone to know who you are. But it can’t it doesn’t start that way. A movement starts with you know, you helping the right two people.

Adam G. Force 09:24


Danielle Sutton 09:26

That reminds me of a client that I worked with who is an urban farmer. So he’s really passionate about climate change and soil health and healthy food and would you know, do spin farming in the city. So take over people’s lawns that they weren’t using and grow food and like, do the whole thing. And he wouldn’t we would do our sessions, like he had so much passion about soil and all these like really big, big issues. But he just needed to get his hands in the dirt. But there was always this confusion of like, I want to do speaking, I want to do a course I want to, you know, start, do more activism around this. But at the end of the day, his business was spin farming and he had to go get his hands in the dirt. And so there was this always this tension around it. And you know, we did a lot of talking about how can you be part of that bigger thing, but do your one piece and niche gives you that power to really make a difference in that in that one piece.

Amy Aitman 10:25

That’s a really good point is that a niche can give you so much more power in the bigger scheme in the bigger picture. It’s like a superpower

Danielle Sutton 10:36

It is. A superpower that that you dial into, right? And I think a good example actually is an amazing human being who’s in the captivate method that we worked with closely, Rubin. Because what is it? What does niching actually mean? To your sales? Right? That’s one of the things we want to talk about today. And it made me Just think of this, you know, Ruben is a rock star. And he had all kinds of experience of training, like Olympians as a coach, and all these other high performing pro athletes and stuff like that. But when he decided to go online, he kind of wanted to scale as big as he could. That was the objective of going online is reaching as many people as possible. And he had this big heart that he put out on the internet, which was, I want to transform your life I want I believe in collaboration, I believe in it. And it got so diluted from what he did like offline, right? And so we looked at everything, and he had no clarity on anything. So what does it actually mean to your sales? Well, after we worked with him very closely, we went through all these crazy processes, we found his theme, his niche, right. And within just two months, he started selling a 1500 dollar program. And instead of feeling like I don’t really want to sell, I just want to help people. Now he feels like I can’t wait to sell because I’m selling something that I know is transforming someone’s life. And it’s so in line with who he wants to be and how he wants to contribute back. Right? Yeah. And what is it into sales, that means you actually get sales. Yeah. And the transformation.

Adam G. Force 12:04

And the transformation

Danielle Sutton 12:05

Because if you are purpose, building your solution for a very specific person, you can purpose build it so that you know, A, B, C, D, they are going to take the right steps and get the results. If you’re kind of building a general solution, the steps are going to be general and you can’t guarantee the results like you can when you’re very specific.

Amy Aitman 12:27

And it’s really hard to get up that hill when you’re talking when you’re thinking in general terms and you’re thinking reaching everyone. When you really narrow your focus and narrow your niche, it becomes really easy to create a new product to create a new offer to create some new marketing things. Because Yeah, everything is so specific and niche. I mean, I like to think of my friend, a local friend who has who’s a baker and she had really a lot of success in the Kate in the Cato space. Like she lost weight and she was feeling great. And she started just to have a little candle bakery. So this was like no sugar. Cato I like I don’t know everything about the keto diet, but it’s, you know, higher fats and whatever. But she wasn’t just she didn’t just start a bakery and start a small business. She started a Cato bakery locally. And her facebook group within I’d say a year got to like 22,000 people, because he was so nice. She was like anyone know, anyone in the Kitchener Waterloo area that I live that wants to do Cato, or wants sugar free baked goods that are that don’t use gluten knows that knows to go to her. And her business just expands, expands, expands, expands all the time. I was like, every time I talked to her, she’s like, Yeah, I got another 5000 people, a group, like so crazy, because it’s just so narrow. But she could have just been like, I love to bake and I want to bake and I want to help everyone with my baking and she would have really gotten stuck in that area. Right? Because…

Danielle Sutton 13:59

Yeah, I mean, that’s a good example of, we were just talking before we came on about how do you actually know if your niche down enough? Right? Are the signs? Yeah, are you because, again, it can be hard to see yourself. And that’s why it’s so beautiful being in coaching and in group programs because you have people to reflect things back to you and ask you questions. And sometimes you get some big lightbulb moments there. But how do you guys like to, like how do you know if someone’s niche down enough?

Adam G. Force 14:30

Are you asking us?

Danielle Sutton 14:31

I was going to keep talking but I’d rather shoot it back to you guys. Yeah, I mean, you’re gonna know because you’re gonna attract the right people to your business. So for example, I’m Amy’s friend who has a bakery, I would not be buying keto. It filters it both ways, right? You’re gonna get people who say, Oh, I need gluten free. I need keto. And I’m gonna say well, that’s not for me. So now you’re not gonna have people who are going This is interesting. It might work for me, but I’m not sure. So you don’t have that anymore. When you have a niche you have I know that’s for me, like specifically, right? People say raise their hand. There’s no there’s no vague like, maybe I could use the right. They’re like, no, that’s me. I need that. Thank you very much. Please help me.

Adam G. Force 15:19

Exactly. Go ahead

Amy Aitman 15:22

Another good sign is when people can introduce you, and they know exactly what they do when someone else can tell your story or tell your little one line, what you do. You’re pretty, you’re pretty clear. It’s like when we have that wishy washy vagueness like Danielle was talking about before, that’s when you know that you’re not nice enough. It’s like if someone else can say Daniella, I want to introduce you to so and so. Who does this? Because I know you do this, then.

Danielle Sutton 15:47

Yeah. And that’s exactly what happened to me. Amy. Right. So with that, my first story. And people were always very confused at the beginning, like Danielle does is weird online stuff with entrepreneurs, I don’t really know. And over time, as I got, as I got more clear about myself, and how I wanted to work with people and who I wanted to work with, then people started sending other people my way, because they knew that I could help them. And so then I was receiving input and receiving inquiries and not going after inquiries. And that’s also a good sign is when your referral. And yeah, people send their friends to you for a certain thing, a membership person, that nonprofit person, like you know, very specifically, and it’s easy to to point people in that direction. I love that. And then I will, I will tell my little Rachel Miller story. We mentioned her because she’s a rock star in the face, rock star in the Facebook space. And people might think that if I go niche, I won’t make as much money, right. So that’s like a, that’s like a limiting belief that people have, and they get FOMO fear of missing out. So I want to reach everybody, and I want to get more, but actually marketing to more people is very expensive, and you get less return for your money. So the quick example, as she was telling me, we had a phone call one time, she’s again, I have this woman who’s one of my students, and she has a Facebook page for like, accountants who are women in their 40s, or something like that, like really dialed in, you know, and it’s like, she was telling her like, how many people do you think really, you’re going to get here? And she said, Well, and so she had a page of just like, I think it was like 165 or 200 people on the page. And that’s it. And she was making $10,000 a month of reoccurring revenue, which blew my mind, just from those people. So when Rachel was like, Hey, can I share your success story and a link to your page for people to see like how you have it all set up and everything? She’s like, No, no, no, no, because I don’t want anybody that is not my audience to come in. Right. So she really drew a line in the sand there. But the power of the niches, you know, very specific group of people who are going to be very passionate and loyal to what you’re offering. And small numbers can have a lot of value, if they’re all engaged, and they’re paying customers, you know,

Amy Aitman 18:02


Danielle Sutton 18:04

Well, that’s a good segue into our little analogy that we like to share about niching in terms of if you think of all the resources available to you to get your message out and find the ideal people to work with. You can think of a little drop of food coloring, a little blue dropper, right? So imagine one little drop of blue food coloring has all of your time, your money, your energy, and that you have available in 24, seven amount of time in your life to to connect with the right people. So if you take that one little drop, and you drop it into a Tupperware of water, is anybody like, is the water gonna turn blue? No, it’s just gonna be clear, it’s gonna stay exactly the same, that little drop disappears, that all that energy and effort just goes poof, right? Yeah, if you take that same drop of energy, and you drop it into a small little glass of water, it’s gonna be blue. And you are making a difference. It’s visible. And it’s contained. It’s, it’s a smaller audience, but it’s way more impactful. So that’s how we like to think about niching rather than great visual.

Adam G. Force 19:12

There’s a book on a similar topic, the Red ocean blue ocean. Yeah, yeah. It’s such a, it’s a good way to help think about that. And it makes a lot of sense because a lot of major categories, the top level, categories health, you know, well, like these things, like, they’re just so saturated, big players in there throwing lots of money, like, that’s the blue ocean, that’s the blue drop of water, like, you’re never gonna stand out there. You’re just gonna get crushed until you go another layer deep and then another layer deep and you start creating your own red ocean, right? That’s like unique into its own self. So part of it is like, how are you going to stand out if you’re in an ocean of saturation that’s just going to crush you with big players.

Amy Aitman 19:56

Thats where that clarity of self comes back in to play again, because it becomes your differentiator, if you figure out what your story is what you do, how you can help. So specifically, that’s where your marketing has so much power. That’s where your business has so much power because it becomes your differentiator, and you get more and more niche. And you’re like, we put that tiny little glass, so that you are so brainy.

Danielle Sutton 20:21

Yeah, I was literally talking about this with one of our captivators last week. And when you’re in an industry where it’s a little bit generic or more of like a commodity, like, like web design, or fitness training, like some of these things, there’s just in every neighborhood, there’s somebody with a business offering the service, and it’s great, like people need all that. But you need a way to stand out from the crowd, you need a way to differentiate yourself with your own stories. And with the niche, the layers, like Adam was saying, and it makes the world of difference.

Amy Aitman 20:53

And I remember back in my agents that when i when i was really focused on my agency, and they first started, figuring out this niche for yourself is a process. And it’s not easy, like it does help to have coaching and mentors and people that are helping you clarify that because most of us just think that like if I just promoted myself as a content strategist, that’s enough. Like I do content strategy. And as you dig as you dig in, I mean, personally, for me, I was very to way too broad, did not figure out what I did not figure out what I could do. And like we do help a lot of people in like in the kaktovik method with this, because people come and say, oh, I’ve got my target audience, I’ve got my niche down. And then we ask questions, and then we say it becomes, it’s something that you can’t just I feel like nobody can just do perfectly by themselves. It’s not you don’t create your niche in a bubble.

Adam G. Force 21:49

Its tough when you’re so close to something, and you have your own, because you have your own beliefs around it, and your own limiting beliefs, like we talked about the FOMO, right. So you may not acknowledge those about yourself, but they will be holding you back and keeping you at this niche that you think you have. So when we ask questions, and this becomes such, it became such a topic of discussion in our coaching calls, that we created additional lessons in the program to go really deep on the topic, because if you’re not nailing this, you’re going to struggle to get results and obviously want everyone to get results. So that was an area that came up so much that we actually put in that extra content there to talk about it. So now it’s important, and it’s tough. When you’re when you’re doing it, as I said, I struggle to like I struggled for a long time trying to figure out niches for different businesses and stuff. And it can be really tough if you don’t have someone to bounce it off of, because you have your own blocks.

Danielle Sutton 22:52

And you know what the funny thing is, is because it’s so aligned to your clarity of self. And when we are thinking about ourselves, sometimes we miss the most obvious things. And so oftentimes when we go through this process, you come full circle, and then you’re like, of course like that, of course that makes sense. Yeah, did I not see that? It’s because it was so close to you so obvious. And so that having that opportunity for reflection and conversation is so valuable

Amy Aitman 23:18

It is

Adam G. Force 23:19

I know we’re gonna wrap up here. But one other thing I want to say is like… Have you ever have those moments where it’s like, You’re like, okay, someone says something, they teach something to do something and you’re like, Oh, I get it, I get it. And you like having your head like, okay, that’s cool, whatever, I got it. And then like a couple months go by and someone else like, teaches a different way different perspective. And all of a sudden, like this light bulb goes off, like you just said, Danielle, and you’re like, Oh, now I really do get that. Yeah, like clear. I mean, I’ve had that happen to me on the most basic concepts where it’s like, you get these newfound layers of clarity. It’s like, and then you say it to you like oh my god, I had an epiphany. And then you say it out loud to yourself or to like your partner, I would tell me and I’m like, this is like the same thing we’ve heard a million times over. Why did I never see it the way I’m seeing it right now. It’s crazy.

Danielle Sutton 24:11

Every day and you’re a new person, right? New experiences and it adds up. But yeah, I’ve totally done that too.

Adam G. Force 24:19

Alright everybody thanks so much for joining today. We will see you on the next episode.

Amy Aitman 24:27

Bye guys

Danielle Sutton 24:27


Adam G. Force 24:27

Thanks for tuning in to the Change Creator podcast. Visit us at Change creator.com forward slash go big to get access to free downloads and other great resources that will drive your business forward.

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